Removal of Infinite Attack Speed in Bleach

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I can see where you are coming from ngl I do think that Spatial Manipulation or specifically Penetration is the best way but my disagreement stems from the lack of Direct evidence ig either way not that hard of a feeling against indexing that, that aside what do you propose about this ?

My final proposal is this: remove Infinite Speed and replace the Rage section with what's below.

Range: Tens of Kilometers with Diagramm, Varies with X-Axis

I say we leave X-Axis as it's currently listed on the profile: Durability Negation and Spatial Manipulation.

Edit: This is my last comment on this, gl.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

In the wider scope of Spatial Manipulation, "Spatial Piercing" is the ability to penetrate through matter/energy by creating a hole in space where the matter/energy previously occupied. It essentially deletes whatever was in a defined region of space; that region in this case being everything between the muzzle and Lille's target. Nothing traverses the distance of that space; it just deletes whatever was occupying the space.

There is nothing further for me to "prove" about it beyond just Lille's own description of what his ability does and the visuals for what we see it do.

Well, it's shown him creating a distortion in space to go after an enemy, so I think that should work.

 

[Hellscream]

Im done with this thread, respectfully.

My arguments are using the wiki definitions, and have not been refuted in the slightest.
They've literally been ignored.

 

[Cipher72]

Edit: This is my last comment on this, gl.

Who decided that ?
All jokes aside I am fine with that maybe we can flesh it out a bit more,

Range: Tens of Kilometers with Diagramm, Varies with X-Axis (Lille's Schrift doesn't release a projectile or an object of quantifiable speed, rather it’s just a "penetrating force" which punches through "everything between the muzzle of Lille's weapon and his target". Causing something like the "concept" of dodging to be incapable of interfering with Lille's "The X-Axis". However this ability has a limitation when it comes to its range, it doesn't/can't manifest across an infinite distance, rather it is only manifested across the known, effective range of Lille's Schrift)

 

[Hellscream]

(If you didn't know, attacks, effects, including spatial hax or attacks can be omnipresent in nature)

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

It's already there because it travelled said distance to get there....
That's how it works if it skipped that distance or materialised the effect just on the target then we wouldn't have these.

That's contradicting it's nature which has already been established to ignore distance. What exactly are we saying here?

This is interesting because how exactly does one define "Conventional movement for Infinite speed" by convention something with mass can't be moving at SOL or beyond now if you are going to say "Well most Characters with Infinite speed are characters with mass that actually physically travel the distance" in that case sure but we are literally arguing for unconventional infinite attack speed with the un prefix before conventional so like....
Again no disrespect but c'mon,

You're conflating instantaneous interaction with speed. Those are not inherently the same thing.
Infinite Speed still fundamentally involves movement/traversal. The whole point is that distance is crossed through velocity in zero time. X-Axis doesn't do that. It doesn't accelerate through space, it doesn’t traverse the gap, and it doesn't propagate from point A to point B. The attack simply ignores intervening distance altogether.

If distance is bypassed rather than crossed, then there is no speed involved to quantify in the first place. Saying “it hits instantly” is not enough. Teleportation also happens instantly, almost any hax quite literally happened instantly (as @DontTalkDT already pointed out), but nobody calls teleportation Infinite Speed because no traversal occurred.

The “unconventional” argument doesn't fix this either. Unconventional Infinite Speed would still need to be a form of movement. Otherwise literally every spatial hax, portal attack, coordinate manipulation, or causality-based (this is Kumagawa) hit becomes Infinite Speed by default, which destroys the distinction between speed and hax entirely. The question isn't whether physics allows it (because for some reason you're applying science paper into this as if fiction follows them at all time). Fiction ignores physics all the time. The question is whether the mechanism is movement or spatial negation. And X-Axis is the latter.

No we don't ???
Kumagawa uses All Fiction to erase the very cause behind his movements meaning he takes no time to move in the sense that he does something like
[Cause] (I walk 5 metres to reach X) ---> [Effect](I reach X) and he erases that cause to reach X instantly thus travelling 5 metres which is completely different, he does a similar thing with Jakago where he spawns in screws by either seemingly Spawning them in or removing the cause behind or wtv, point is Kumagawa and X-axis is completely different.

Keyword “very similar”, I never said they're an exact pair. The point is that, similar cases such as “removing time-frame” or “ignoring distance” isn't quantifiable nor is it evident for it to be Infinite Speed, it's just hax.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

All jokes aside I am fine with that maybe we can flesh it out a bit more,

A little too wordy.

Range: Tens of Kilometers with Diagramm, Varies with X-Axis (Rather than firing a conventional projectile, Lille’s Schrift uniformly penetrates anything between the muzzle of his weapon and his designated target, making its exact effective range undefined)

My arguments are using the wiki definitions, and have not been refuted in the slightest. They've literally been ignored.

You're not being ignored; it's just that Nigh-Omnipresence is unnecessary when Range does the job just fine.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

That's contradicting it's nature which has already been established to ignore distance. What exactly are we saying here?

That debate ended already, my guy.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

That debate ended already, my guy.

Leaving for a few hours and the thread suddenly has 6 pages. Man, they grow up so fast.

 

[Cipher72]

That debate ended already, my guy

Einstein said Time was relative who are we to judge

A little too wordy.
Range: Tens of Kilometers with Diagramm, Varies with X-Axis (Rather than firing a conventional projectile, Lille’s Schrift uniformly penetrates anything between the muzzle of his weapon and his designated target, making its exact effective range undefined)

Works for me like I said before as long as it's aptly indexed as in gets the work done with explaining to everyone unfamiliar with the series I don't mind the method used.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

That debate ended already, my guy.

I believe the 48-hour waiting period has already passed. Are Lille Barro and Yhwach the only ones scaled to infinite speed? Someone should remove infinite speed from the profiles.

 

[ItsMeat]

There's no concept of dodging X-Axis and dodging requires space and time, therefore the very concepts of space and time are inferior to X-Axis which means it's 1-A, so it has irrelevant speed. Problem solved.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

There's no concept of dodging X-Axis and dodging requires space and time, therefore the very concepts of space and time are inferior to X-Axis which means it's 1-A, so it has irrelevant speed. Problem solved.

Hyperbole

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I believe the 48-hour waiting period has already passed. Are Lille Barro and Yhwach the only ones scaled to infinite speed? Someone should remove infinite speed from the profiles.

Enough people have already agreed to the removal of Infinite Speed.

Damage and I seem to be on the same page regarding Spatial Manipulation, but Lephyr disagrees, and the difference in votes isn't big enough to apply changes. So basically, we need one more.

 

[Hellscream]

A little too wordy.


You're not being ignored; it's just that Nigh-Omnipresence is unnecessary when Range does the job just fine.

Okay, do you agree with coordinates A and B being affected simultaneously and every other coordinate between or not?
Im saying it's omnipresent within the range that is being presented.

Which so far, has not been disputed, the only thing that has been done so far is avoidance.

It's not "unnecessary", as that's exactly what is happening here, you simply chose to ignore it.

 

[ItsMeat]

Hyperbole

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Enough people have already agreed to the removal of Infinite Speed.

Damage and I seem to be on the same page regarding Spatial Manipulation, but Lephyr disagrees, and the difference in votes isn't big enough to apply changes. So basically, we need one more.

I understand, Dalesean027 seem to agree with your reasoning above.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I understand, Dalesean027 seem to agree with your reasoning above.

Oh in that case, we're good.

Okay, do you agree with coordinates A and B being affected simultaneously and every other coordinate between or not?
Im saying it's omnipresent within the range that is being presented.

Which so far, has not been disputed, the only thing that has been done so far is avoidance.

It's not "unnecessary", as that's exactly what is happening here, you simply chose to ignore it.

I don't understand what you're saying.

Range already implies the character can hit qanything within sed range. What is Nigh-Omnipresence useful for in this context? What is it telling us, that range alone, is not telling us?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Isn't his just hitscan gun in game dev terms? Bog standard FPS like counter strike have it on every gun, idk how that is spatial manip.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I will go ahead and apply the revisions and remove Infinite Speed, as that is the core of this thread.

 

[Cipher72]

Isn't his just hitscan gun in game dev terms? Bog standard FPS like counter strike have it on every gun, idk how that is spatial manip.

That's not the spatial manipulation part that's the range part, the spatial manipulation part is the durability negation effect it applies on targets and everything in between.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

does spawning attacks on target give dura neg now?

 

[Cipher72]

does spawning attacks on target give dura neg now?

Please read the entire thread, this point has been heavily discussed and refuted as far back as the first page.

X-axis penetrates (physically) anything between the muzzle and the target in no time, take the muzzle starting at coordinate (1,2,3) and the target is at (500,2,3) it physically manifests across that distance

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Please read the entire thread, this point has been heavily discussed and refuted as far back as the first page.

Too much to read, which is why I asked. Asking is simple.

So I see.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Who decided that ?
All jokes aside I am fine with that maybe we can flesh it out a bit more,

I can agree with this, if only cause of a lack of better options

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

yknow we should have a damage inducement power page for attacks that simply induce damage with no apparent cause at all. i dunno if this one would fall under it rather than spatial manip but yea.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

yknow we should have a damage inducement power page for attacks that simply induce damage with no apparent cause at all. i dunno if this one would fall under it rather than spatial manip but yea.

If you do, let me know. I've run into that issue several times. We have something for transfer, reducing it, and boosting it, but not for just causing it.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

If you do, let me know. I've run into that issue several times. We have something for transfer, reducing it, and boosting it, but not for just causing it.

i probably wont but if anyone wants to i doubt its that controversial

 

[Cipher72]

i probably wont but if anyone wants to i doubt its that controversial

I will get to making a draft gimme some hours

 

[Azertyhuuh]

The revisions have been applied.

The removal of infinite speed from the files of Yhwach and Lille Barro has been completed, and the following justification has been added to Lille Barro’s range section:

Tens of Kilometers with Diagramm, Varies with X-Axis (Rather than firing a conventional projectile, Lille’s Schrift uniformly penetrates anything between the muzzle of his weapon and his designated target, making its exact effective range undefined).

This topic can now be closed.

 

[Cipher72]

Scans ????
At least use scans or ig some admin can rest is fine ig.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Scans ????
At least use scans or ig some admin can rest is fine ig.

• The X-Axis:
  • Spatial Manipulation & Durability Negation (Lille can uniformly penetrate anything in-between his gun and target without prejudice. There are no bullets to this gun<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Lille_Barro#cite_note-"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a>, and it is impossible to dodge the gun<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Lille_Barro#cite_note-"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a>)
  • Enhanced Intangibility (The true ability of The X-Axis is to become intangible. This ability is accessed by Lille "opening his eyes." Even Zanpakuto from Captain Class Shinigami can't touch Lille<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Lille_Barro#cite_note-"><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></a>)

I think the evidence is already present in the abilities section, so I don’t think adding it is really necessary.