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Reinhard vs Acheron

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VortechsTG said:
Fundamentally, any sort of energy based system like Cursed Energy or Nen should work the same way as Re:Zero's Magic by verse equalization. Reinhard's seperate divine protections for resistances to natural phenomenon would be important for matchups where the opponent actually manipulates said natural phenomenon.
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i agree with verse equalization for this fight
 
There are 5 pages of a whole lot of derailing and bullshit here that I read through but still didn't seem to give much of a consistent argument aside from the insane speed amp. But it's clear enough that if Acheron will instantly use her transformation this is a stomp in her favor. If you want to change the thread for her to start with her amp, then what passive hax would be her wincon? Reinhard is most definitely not getting tagged with equal speed.
 
VortechsTG said:
There are 5 pages of a whole lot of derailing and bullshit here that I read through but still didn't seem to give much of a consistent argument aside from the insane speed amp. But it's clear enough that if Acheron will instantly use her transformation this is a stomp in her favor. If you want to change the thread for her to start with her amp, then what passive hax would be her wincon? Reinhard is most definitely not getting tagged with equal speed.
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what if she just doesnt instantly transform tho? like she fought aventurine in base without transforming until he literally said "match my wager with your full power emanator"
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
Broskie Doggo changed the fight to where Acheron is already transformed
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He suggested the idea but seemed to move on very quickly. The op does not make it clear. Sure, the image shows her transformed, but if that was supposed to convey the conditions of the match it's a horrible way to do so. He's gonna have to clear up whether he intended to change the conditions or not.
 
VortechsTG said:
He suggested the idea but seemed to move on very quickly. The op does not make it clear. Sure, the image shows her transformed, but if that was supposed to convey the conditions of the match it's a horrible way to do so. He's gonna have to clear up whether he intended to change the conditions or not.
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Wait till you realize what standard battle assumptions says
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
Wait till you realize what standard battle assumptions says
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Yeah, you're right. Fair enough. But we've been arguing this entire time based on the assumption that she was starting in her base form and there was no clear indication it changed. SBA it would make it seem like the entire 6 pages so far were arguing based on the wrong assumption.
 
VortechsTG said:
Fundamentally, any sort of energy based system like Cursed Energy or Nen should work the same way as Re:Zero's Magic by verse equalization. Reinhard's seperate divine protections for resistances to natural phenomenon would be important for matchups where the opponent actually manipulates said natural phenomenon.
Click to expand...
A verse contains 2 different power systems, 1 being an energy system and the other being magic. If the magic user says the energy system isn’t magic, why would verse equalization apply.
 
It's not nothin' it's just dura neg as Reid's special property as an Enchanted Sword
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
I thought we’re extrapolating this shit as Conceptual existence erasure again.
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I don't really know what to say to that because, yeah, how does it apply then? Idk, but the kind of matchup that just ends in saying "yeah, their power systems are different so passive hax just instantly kills their opponent" is kinda lame.
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
Here
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I don't think this changes verse equalization. Verse equalization doesn't assume that two power systems are literally the exact same system, just that similar systems will be able to interact with each other for the sake of versus matchups. A character from a seperate verse not recognizing the power system in this one doesn't mean it wouldn't be equalized. I thought you were talking about actual hyv magecraft.
 
If I was to give my take on verse equalization stuff
The SBA page says it’s case by case. But the power systems do have to be kind of similar.
For example you could prob equalize Compound V from the Boys and the Super Soldier Serum from Marvel. Or Cursed Energy vs Chakra. But not say Quirks and Reiryoku / Spiritual Pressure cause they’re way too different so MHA characters still get soul crushed.

But Imaginary Energy vs Re Zero Magic is odd cause Imaginary energy is explicitly stated not to be magic.
So if a Reinhard resistance is coming from resisting magic (As Tayman pointed out earlier in the thread) and not resisting the natural phenomena directly. Then Acheron’s tricks will work on him just fine.
Still though Rein still has CM2 so Rein still has a wincon regardless.
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
If I was to give my take on verse equalization stuff
The SBA page says it’s case by case. But the power systems do have to be kind of similar.
For example you could prob equalize Compound V from the Boys and the Super Soldier Serum from Marvel. Or Cursed Energy vs Chakra. But not say Quirks and Reiryoku / Spiritual Pressure cause they’re way too different so MHA characters still get soul crushed.

But Imaginary Energy vs Re Zero Magic is odd cause Imaginary energy is explicitly stated not to be magic.
So if a Reinhard resistance is coming from resisting magic (As Tayman pointed out earlier in the thread) and not resisting the natural phenomena directly. Then Acheron’s tricks will work on him just fine.
Still though Rein still has CM2 so Rein still has a wincon regardless.
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IE can replace magic tho so they're basically the same thing
 
Mbpoops said:
IE can replace magic tho so they're basically the same thing
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Tbf Imaginary Energy being able to recreate Miracles from the Holy Grail could just be a showcase of similar potency / abilities to fates magic (There’s lots of very different power systems out there that let you shoot fire for example) rather than them actually being the same thing or fate characters wouldn’t keep mentioning they’re at a disadvantage fighting in the Hoyoverse or how their magic had to be switched out
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
Tbf Imaginary Energy being able to recreate Miracles from the Holy Grail could just be a showcase of similar potency / abilities to fates magic (There’s lots of very different power systems out there that let you shoot fire for example) rather than them actually being the same thing or fate characters wouldn’t keep mentioning they’re at a disadvantage fighting in the Hoyoverse or how their magic had to be switched out
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pretty sure they are at a disadvantage because they arent native to penacony like the servants from penacony, their mystery would be more powerful than the fate servants
 
Mbpoops said:
pretty sure they are at a disadvantage because they arent native to penacony like the servants from penacony, their mystery would be more powerful than the fate servants
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i mean hell archer was able to see through and break mr reca's noble phantasm
 
Mbpoops said:
pretty sure they are at a disadvantage because they arent native to penacony like the servants from penacony, their mystery would be more powerful than the fate servants
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Mbpoops said:
i mean hell archer was able to see through and break mr reca's noble phantasm
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You’re right about the disadvantage bit cause checking the scans again Penacony Servants were mentioned
Still feel very iffy equalizing IE and Magic outright since it’s repeated Hoyo doesn’t have Magic but I’ll begrudgingly accept these energy systems being equalized
Which then Reinhard powernulls?
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
You’re right about the disadvantage bit cause checking the scans again Penacony Servants were mentioned
Still feel very iffy equalizing IE and Magic outright since it’s repeated Hoyo doesn’t have Magic but I’ll begrudgingly accept these energy systems being equalized
Which then Reinhard powernulls?
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Acheron has a more potent Power Nullification ngl, it includes Resistance Negation other than Statistics Reduction and this is with her slash
 
To be clear, Acheron's slashes aren't 360 degree aoe like Reinhard's, right? They're just really high range, right?
 
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