'Infinite' Stamina Conditions

[Jinx666]

Hello, so from a prior drama and 'stat change' fiasco today, I've decided to try my luck and bring about a fairly underlooked issue on the wiki in how we rate some characters by Stamina, hopign we can get somewhere. Ill start off by saying, I dont think this is controversial whatsoever and can't see why people would disagree with this objectively.

Stamina obviously isnt the most detailed stat, since you cant exactly scale it by a number and the ranges of it are fairly limited, leaving any deciding factor between which character can last longer down to purely feats. However I occasionally see Stamina being 'Infinite' when it comes to a lot of beings that are artificial or mechanically made, purely on the basis that they don't operate on the standard human model of sustenance and stamina. Such as Frankenstein's Monster, Fire Man, Storm Owl, Blaspheme or Bloodletters.

Infinite Stamina is a pretty big deal and an extreme advantage to have, since it means you never get tired and can typically operate at 100% power. I think Dragon Ball is the biggest factor towards this line of thinking with Android 17 and 18, but they were explicitly stated to possess the ability to never tire for being androids. Thing is, this is a stated ability of theirs, and not for the many, many other fictional androids, robots, cyborgs etc that follow along.

Synthetic characters, either artificial/biologically or mechanically would still need sustenance of some sort as a default. You need to connect a machine by a plug for example, to connect it to the mains. Or robots need to run on batteries or other artifical powersources that are typically not going to be Perpetual Motion Machines. Ergo I think its down to the page-maker to prove they have Infinite energy, and to ban giving these characters Infinite on their Stamina for weak reasons. It's just blatantly not that simple. Things like Regeneration/Self-Repair would also need to be a requirement for any Infinite Stamina deals since all physical things will naturally deteriorate on their own if not maintained.

I'm a little guilty of this myself, I recently made a page for Makoto Kagutsuchi and opened up the possibility of his stamina being infinite based on an NPC dialogue questioning whether his species can get tired (not the best source since he's questioning whether he does get tired, but thought it was a purposeful narrative hint. Makoto is different in that regard). However at the very least i went over and referenced my line of thinking in doing so. I still believe its fine as a possibility and can defend this change, which is what I want to expect from anyone else doing this

I don't know what much to say but can update OP and discuss below

Overall, what I would like to come out of this thread

• The standards for 'Infinite Stamina' being taken into a lot more scrutiny on page-publish, and not requiring a CRT to be able to change to 'Unknown' if (self-evidently) not sufficiently backed up. This can be done whenever it is come across on the wiki by linking this thread, and you dont need a CRT to change it for unsupported cases (So not on Dragon Ball Androids for example). Ask any mods if unsure.
• The standard wiki assumption of 'Robots/Artificial characters have Infinite Stamina unless stated otherwise' be changed to 'Characters must prove to have Infinite Stamina.'
• Potentially some new terms in Stamina to accommodate robots/special cases, given their take on 'stamina' is different to the likes of humans? These would probably be super niche though? But outlining that their Stamina works differently due to their physiology would be relevant

 

[Natsuki012]

shouldn't this be a staff thread instead? fits way more with the proposal

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Yeah it should be

 

[Jinx666]

I mean I wouldnt know but would love the thoughts of regular members on this too until then

 

[Natsuki012]

I mean I wouldnt know but would love the thoughts of regular members on this too until then

you should ask staff to change it then

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I don’t really agree with this. On VSBW, Infinite Stamina has never meant “literally infinite energy,” but rather the ability to keep functioning without tiring in a conventional sense.

That’s why robots, undead, constructs, and similar beings often get the rating. They usually don’t suffer from biological fatigue and can keep operating indefinitely unless they’re damaged or shut down externally.

I agree unsupported cases should be checked more carefully, but completely changing the assumption would just create unnecessary inconsistency and turn a lot of perfectly valid ratings into “Unknown” for no real reason.

Also, I honestly don’t understand why you’re specifically bringing up one of the pages that I created here.

 

[Jinx666]

I don’t really agree with this. On VSBW, Infinite Stamina has never meant “literally infinite energy,” but rather the ability to keep functioning without tiring in a conventional sense.

Im not saying infinite energy since thats not 1:1 with infinite stamina, but unlike something like a standard robot or an undead (literally rotting), you would still need a body that can go on for that long for example. Self Sustenance is a power here, but even then you cant assume Self Sustenance is indefinite in some cases

That’s why robots, undead, constructs, and similar beings often get the rating. They usually don’t suffer from biological fatigue and can keep operating indefinitely unless they’re damaged or shut down externally.

Biological fatigue not being the only stamina factor is a huge part of the thread. Operating indefinitely requires more than just that in those cases. Not every robot for example will have enough power to just go on indefinitely, thats a huge assumption.

I agree unsupported cases should be checked more carefully, but completely changing the assumption would just create unnecessary inconsistency and turn a lot of perfectly valid ratings into “Unknown” for no real reason.

If theyre valid, they'd have explanations and backing, But otherwise we cant assume they can go on endlessly solely for being robots for example. Like i said, i think popular examples such as Android 17 and 18 have overall had an effect on what we perceive infinite stamina as for machines

Also, I honestly don’t understand why you’re specifically bringing up one of my pages here.

Cause it was the subject of a kick-off earlier and what essentially inspired me to make this thread. I didnt know it was one of yours tho, nothing personal obv

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Im not saying infinite energy since thats not 1:1 with infinite stamina, but unlike something like a standard robot or an undead (literally rotting), you would still need a body that can go on for that long for example. Self Sustenance is a power here, but even then you cant assume Self Sustenance is indefinite in some cases

Biological fatigue not being the only stamina factor is a huge part of the thread. Operating indefinitely requires more than just that in those cases. Not every robot for example will have enough power to just go on indefinitely, thats a huge assumption.

If theyre valid, they'd have explanations and backing, But otherwise we cant assume they can go on endlessly solely for being robots for example. Like i said, i think popular examples such as Android 17 and 18 have overall had an effect on what we perceive infinite stamina as for machines

Cause it was the subject of a kick-off earlier and what essentially inspired me to make this thread. I didnt know it was one of yours tho, nothing personal obv

But that’s already basically how the wiki treats it. Characters usually get Infinite Stamina because exhaustion is never shown to matter for them, not just because they’re robots.

By this logic, a huge amount of fictional robots, undead, and constructs would suddenly need constant explanations about batteries, decay, or maintenance even when their stories clearly portray them as beings that can keep going indefinitely unless someone stops them.

It just feels like overcomplicating the stat for no real reason.

 

[Maikolpry]

I don’t really agree with this. On VSBW, Infinite Stamina has never meant “literally infinite energy,” but rather the ability to keep functioning without tiring in a conventional sense.

That’s why robots, undead, constructs, and similar beings often get the rating. They usually don’t suffer from biological fatigue and can keep operating indefinitely unless they’re damaged or shut down externally.

I agree unsupported cases should be checked more carefully, but completely changing the assumption would just create unnecessary inconsistency and turn a lot of perfectly valid ratings into “Unknown” for no real reason.

Agree

 

[Jinx666]

But that’s already basically how the wiki treats it. Characters usually get Infinite Stamina because exhaustion is never shown to matter for them, not just because they’re robots.

...Yeah, and thats what im attesting to in this thread and trying to change it based on its faults. Which is what you need a CRT to do.

Not showing exhaustion on screen =/= having infinite stamina either. Thats a major stretch

By this logic, a huge amount of fictional robots, undead, and constructs would suddenly need constant explanations about batteries, decay, or maintenance even when their stories clearly portray them as beings that can keep going indefinitely unless someone stops them.

Well yeah...much like any reason you need giving a character anything. If theres a way to prove the robot/undead can last indefinitely without any form of sustenance, and cant be exhausted then it'll be evident in the story. Otherwise, we find another reason.

Just because Robots dont feel fatigue like humans do doesnt mean they cant operate to lower standards with continued/intense use.

It just feels like overcomplicating the stat for no real reason.

No, its just being accurate and not giving such a large advantage that people don't scope just for not being typically biological ig. Stamina just works differently for other beings and we should accomodate instead of pretending someone like Frankenstein could outlast Goku in attrition for example

 

[Natsuki012]

Hello, so from a prior drama and 'stat change' fiasco today, I've decided to try my luck and bring about a fairly underlooked issue on the wiki in how we rate some characters by Stamina, hopign we can get somewhere. Ill start off by saying, I dont think this is controversial whatsoever and can't see why people would disagree with this.

Stamina obviously isnt the most detailed stat, since you cant exactly scale it by a number and the ranges of it are fairly limited, leaving any deciding factor between which character can last longer down to purely feats. However I occasionally see Stamina being 'Infinite' when it comes to a lot of beings that are artificial or mechanically made, purely on the basis that they don't operate on the standard human model of sustenance and stamina. Such as Frankenstein's Monster.

Infinite Stamina is a pretty big deal and an extreme advantage to have, since it means you never get tired and can typically operate at 100% power. I think Dragon Ball is the biggest factor towards this line of thinking with Android 17 and 18, but they were explicitly stated to possess the ability to never tire for being androids. Thing is, this is a stated ability of theirs, and not for the many, many other fictional androids, robots, cyborgs etc that follow along by inspiration.

Synthetic characters, either artificial/biologically or mechanically would still need sustenance of some sort as a default. You need to connect a machine by a plug for example, to connect it to the mains. Or robots need to run on batteries or other artifical powersources that are typically not going to be Perpetual Motion Machine. Ergo I think its down to the page-maker to prove they have Infinite energy, and to ban giving these characters Infinite on their Stamina for weak reasons. It's just blatantly not that simple. Things like Regeneration/Self-Repair would also need to be a requirement for any Infinite Stamina deals since all physical things will naturally deteriorate on their own if not maintained.

I'm a little guilty of this myself, I recently made a page for Makoto Kagutsuchi and opened up the possibility of his stamina being infinite based on an NPC dialogue questioning whether his species can get tired (not the best source since he's questioning whether he does get tired, but thought it was a purposeful narrative hint. Makoto is different in that regard). However at the very least i went over and referenced my line of thinking in doing so. I still believe its fine as a possibility and can defend this change, which is what I want to expect from anyone else doing this

I don't know what much to say but can update OP and discuss below

Overall, what I would like to come out of this thread

• The standards for 'Infinite Stamina' being taken into a lot more scrutiny on page-publish, and not requiring a CRT to be able to change to 'Unknown' if (self-evidently) not sufficiently backed up. This can be done whenever it is come across on the wiki by linking this thread, and you dont need a CRT to change it for unsupported cases (So not on Dragon Ball Androids for example). Ask any mods if unsure.
• The standard wiki assumption of 'Robots/Artificial characters have Infinite Stamina unless stated otherwise' be changed to 'Characters must prove to have Infinite Stamina.'
• Potentially some new terms in Stamina to accomodate robots/special cases, given their take on 'stamina' is different to the likes of humans? These would probably be super niche though? But outlining that their Stamina works differently due to their physiology

After reading it, I believe that a thread is kinda unnecessary; rather, it should be something to be handled Case by case basis

 

[Jinx666]

After reading it, I believe that a thread is kinda unnecessary; rather, it should be something to be handled case-by-case

...The very reason im making this thread is because its NOT dealt that way, and I'm asking for standards to be made for the cases. Theres so many published pages that just get Infinite stamina for free on the basis of being a robot for example. Why does something like Infinite Stamina have to be 'disproven' over being proven to add in the first place?

Like...i'm literally saying it needs to be proven (which requires a case), not assumed. Which clearly hasn't been enforced. So I got no idea why its unnecessary when it alligns with what you believe it should be (i think this should have been the standard too).

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

...Yeah, and thats what im attesting to in this thread and trying to change it based on its faults. Which is what you need a CRT to do.

Not showing exhaustion on screen =/= having infinite stamina either. Thats a major stretch

Well yeah...much like any reason you need giving a character anything. If theres a way to prove the robot/undead can last indefinitely without any form of sustenance, and cant be exhausted then it'll be evident in the story. Otherwise, we find another reason.

Just because Robots dont feel fatigue like humans do doesnt mean they cant operate to lower standards with continued/intense use.

No, its just being accurate and not giving such a large advantage that people don't scope just for not being typically biological ig. Stamina just works differently for other beings and we should accomodate instead of pretending someone like Frankenstein could outlast Goku in attrition for example

I received permission from SomebodyData to post this reply here for the sake of transparency, since the thread was suddenly turned into a staff-only thread.

But the problem is that you’re applying real world limitations to fictional beings that often aren’t written that way. A lot of robots, undead, and constructs are clearly portrayed as entities that simply keep going unless externally stopped, even if the story never gives a detailed explanation for it.

Also, Infinite Stamina on the wiki has never meant “can literally fight forever against anyone.” It just means exhaustion is generally not a limiting factor for them. Frankenstein not outlasting Goku specifically doesn’t suddenly invalidate the rating as a whole.

 

[Jinx666]

I received permission from SomebodyData to post this reply here for the sake of transparency, since the thread was suddenly turned into a staff-only thread.

But the problem is that you’re applying real world limitations to fictional beings that often aren’t written that way. A lot of robots, undead, and constructs are clearly portrayed as entities that simply keep going unless externally stopped, even if the story never gives a detailed explanation for it.

Well if they are, you will have to prove it. You're assuming they can go on infinitely which I have no idea why thats the default when real life standards to what we can equate to cant last infinitely. There should be 0 issue with people in 2026 having to prove/justify their reasonings as to why a character gets a level or trait. Same with Stamina. You dont get Infinite Stamina (a stat that measures how long a character can typically last in a fight most of the time) just cause you're a fictional robot. Robots dont typically work indefinitely. This has just been a widely skewed perception thanks to stuff like Dragon Ball where their androids/robots work that way. (Heck even Cell needed a Senzu Bean)

this is nothing to do with real world limitations. Even fiction has the concept of exhaustion and stamina? This is just fundamentally about how we treat beings that dont function like humans do.
Can you say anything in regards to robots requiring a power source for example? Or if a zombie cant regenerate (Cause theres no unanimous standard for either)

Also, Infinite Stamina on the wiki has never meant “can literally fight forever against anyone.” It just means exhaustion is generally not a limiting factor for them. Frankenstein not outlasting Goku specifically doesn’t suddenly invalidate the rating as a whole.

Idk what you're quoting cause I never said that, I understand what Stamina is, but just because robots for example dont feel exhaustion the same way humans do, doesnt mean they can last indefinitely, which is essentially what the Stamina rating is for. Longevity.

Having their 'power output at 65%' for example, would be considered a 'limiting factor' for them right? They still output energy, they just dont feel a physical fatigue when doing so. Assuming things are infinite in general is just not a good take

 

[Tllmbrg]

But the problem is that you’re applying real world limitations to fictional beings that often aren’t written that way. A lot of robots, undead, and constructs are clearly portrayed as entities that simply keep going unless externally stopped, even if the story never gives a detailed explanation for it.

Also, Infinite Stamina on the wiki has never meant “can literally fight forever against anyone.” It just means exhaustion is generally not a limiting factor for them. Frankenstein not outlasting Goku specifically doesn’t suddenly invalidate the rating as a whole.

What?
Why even call it infinite at that point if it is not in fact, infinite? I guess you can have infinite stamina that isn't covering all your bases (Say for example someone with type 2 and 3 self-sustenance but in combat they have clear limitations), but that still involves some kind of ability to not need a type of restoration for your stamina.
Undead I am partial to, I can see it going either way, but robots especially imo should not be given infinite stamina like that, since a lot of the time they're just running on alternative power sources (I don't think if you're running on batteries that is infinite stamina).

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Well if they are, you will have to prove it. You're assuming they can go on infinitely which I have no idea why thats the default when real life standards to what we can equate to cant last infinitely. There should be 0 issue with people in 2026 having to prove/justify their reasonings as to why a character gets a level or trait. Same with Stamina. You dont get Infinite Stamina (a stat that measures how long a character can typically last in a fight most of the time) just cause you're a fictional robot. Robots dont typically work indefinitely. This has just been a widely skewed perception thanks to stuff like Dragon Ball where their androids/robots work that way. (Heck even Cell needed a Senzu Bean)

this is nothing to do with real world limitations. Even fiction has the concept of exhaustion and stamina? This is just fundamentally about how we treat beings that dont function like humans do.
Can you say anything in regards to robots requiring a power source for example? Or if a zombie cant regenerate (Cause theres no unanimous standard for either)

Idk what you're quoting cause I never said that, I understand what Stamina is, but just because robots for example dont feel exhaustion the same way humans do, doesnt mean they can last indefinitely, which is essentially what the Stamina rating is for. Longevity.

Having their 'power output at 65%' for example, would be considered a 'limiting factor' for them right? They still output energy, they just dont feel a physical fatigue when doing so. Assuming things are infinite in general is just not a good take

The problem is that you’re expecting fictional robots and undead to follow real-life logic when many stories clearly don’t treat them that way. A lot of these characters are simply portrayed as beings that can keep going unless someone stops or destroys them.

Also, Infinite Stamina was never meant to require literal infinite energy. It’s mostly about exhaustion not being a real issue for the character. If they’re consistently shown operating without tiring, then the rating is reasonable unless the story directly shows otherwise.

 

[Jinx666]

The problem is that you’re expecting fictional robots and undead to follow real-life logic when many stories clearly don’t treat them that way. A lot of these characters are simply portrayed as beings that can keep going unless someone stops or destroys them.

Theres no real-life logic to undead, but there are to robots.

If the stories they're contained in have proof of them lasting indefinitely, such as Dragon Ball, then you're all well and good to prove so and publish the page. Otherwise though, im sure theres plenty of cases of fictional robots that cant last forever, and the whole point of something like zombies is that they brainlessly feed (to sustain themselves instinctively)

Only one you can rly argue for amongst lower-tiered characters is Ghosts? but frankly anything with Infinite Stamina should also have things such as Self-Sustenance and Regeneration/Auto-repair. We shouldn't disregard the logic behind these things just cause its fictional. We instead look for an explanation within that fiction instead of making our own fiction to justify it. If a character automatically relies on a power source, such as electricity to function, and cant produce its own indefinitely then theres no Infinite Stamina to be seen.

Also, Infinite Stamina was never meant to require literal infinite energy.

Never said that. You would however need some sort of infinite source that doesnt deteriorate, logically. If the wiki can use stuff like this to justify the logic behind calcs, we should at least respect the rule of conservation of energy in 99% of cases (ignoring Tier 2 and beyond ig). Stamina is an entire section on the longevity of characters, and in cases of characters that arent human, we shouldnt bind them to human standards of stamina.

It’s mostly about exhaustion not being a real issue for the character. If they’re consistently shown operating without tiring, then the rating is reasonable unless the story directly shows otherwise.

Well no, cause just because it doesnt feel human exhaustion doesnt mean it doesnt have its own form of exhaustion. Robots for example having limited battery before shutting down. That can easily be equated to exhaustion.
Why are we holding characters like this to different physiologies instead of accomodating? And we cant say its cause we want Infinite Stamina to be on their profile.

 

[KLOL506]

@DontTalkDT @LephyrTheRevanchist @Qawsedf234 @Mr. Bambu @Elizhaa Input here would be appreciated.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Theres no real-life logic to undead, but there are to robots.

If the stories they're contained in have proof of them lasting indefinitely, such as Dragon Ball, then you're all well and good to prove so and publish the page. Otherwise though, im sure theres plenty of cases of fictional robots that cant last forever, and the whole point of something like zombies is that they brainlessly feed (to sustain themselves instinctively)

Only one you can rly argue for amongst lower-tiered characters is Ghosts? but frankly anything with Infinite Stamina should also have things such as Self-Sustenance and Regeneration/Auto-repair. We shouldn't disregard the logic behind these things just cause its fictional. We instead look for an explanation within that fiction instead of making our own fiction to justify it. If a character automatically relies on a power source, such as electricity to function, and cant produce its own indefinitely then theres no Infinite Stamina to be seen.

Never said that. You would however need some sort of infinite source that doesnt deteriorate, logically. If the wiki can use stuff like this to justify the logic behind calcs, we should at least respect the rule of conservation of energy in 99% of cases (ignoring Tier 2 and beyond ig). Stamina is an entire section on the longevity of characters, and in cases of characters that arent human, we shouldnt bind them to human standards of stamina.

Well no, cause just because it doesnt feel human exhaustion doesnt mean it doesnt have its own form of exhaustion. Robots for example having limited battery before shutting down. That can easily be equated to exhaustion.
Why are we holding characters like this to different physiologies instead of accomodating? And we cant say its cause we want Infinite Stamina to be on their profile.

Not really, this is mixing “has a power source” with “shown to have limits.” Infinite Stamina on the wiki is about not displaying exhaustion in practice, not proving literal endless energy in-universe.

If a robot or undead consistently operates without tiring, stopping, or showing any fatigue mechanics, then that portrayal is enough unless the story actually shows a limit. Otherwise you end up assuming restrictions that were never shown.

 

[Jinx666]

Not really, this is mixing “has a power source” with “shown to have limits.” Infinite Stamina on the wiki is about not displaying exhaustion in practice, not proving literal endless energy in-universe.

Again, showing you dont exhaust on-screen visibly =/= Infinite Stamina

This is not sufficient proof to give people infinite stamina.

If a robot or undead consistently operates without tiring, stopping, or showing any fatigue mechanics, then that portrayal is enough unless the story actually shows a limit. Otherwise you end up assuming restrictions that were never shown.

It's better to assume restrictions than assume no-limits in every case like that. Any being that has a indefinite life, infinite stamina, full-power at their disposal 24/7 would have a line of reasoning towards it. We cant say robots have that just because other verses treats it like this, and because robots still need to be powered typically.

 

[BloodyBloodwork365]

I thought infinite stamina already came with these conditions here? I might try to get Lies of P on this wiki, and I certainly wouldn't be claiming the Puppets have infinite stamina, since we find one that's run out of power almost immediately after beating the first boss.

 

[Jinx666]

I thought infinite stamina already came with these conditions here? I might try to get Lies of P on this wiki, and I certainly wouldn't be claiming the Puppets have infinite stamina, since we find one that's run out of power almost immediately after beating the first boss.

I mean thats the ideal and probably self-evident to most but it tends to get glossed over on a lot of profiles simply cause theyre a robot or something and cant physically feel exhaustion. Obviously that doesnt accomodate for the different ways they experience exhaustion.

Also Lies of Peak mention, would deff be welcome on the wiki

 

[BloodyBloodwork365]

I mean thats the ideal and probably self-evident to most but it tends to get glossed over on a lot of profiles simply cause theyre a robot or something and cant physically feel exhaustion. Obviously that doesnt accomodate for the different ways they experience exhaustion.

Also Lies of Peak mention, would deff be welcome on the wiki

My point is that I thought the wiki already took such things into consideration, so idk why this thread was made lol.

It is Lies of Peak indeed.

 

[Jinx666]

My point is that I thought the wiki already took such things into consideration, so idk why this thread was made lol.

It didn't unfortunately. A lot of pages give Infinite Stamina pretty freely for mediocre reasons like just being a robot. This thread is for trying to enforce that standard asap, but it definitely should have been considered far sooner i agree

 

[Qawsedf234]

Input here would be appreciated

This is the current justification for infinite stamina

Infinite: Characters with inexhaustible sources of energy at their disposal, allowing them to fight indefinitely, although not necessarily allowing them to ignore crippling pain or fight on through critical injuries.

Just reading the OP, to me it seems like the main issue is people confusing not having noticeable fatigue as having infinite stamina. This is more an enforcement issue than a definition issue.

Like we can write it to have disclaimers but the core justification is sound

 

[Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh]

I got permission from SomebodyData to participate here. I think you might be trying to justify the edit you were reported for by setting a general standard.

But I don’t think a single rule can be applied to every verse and character like that. Some stories clearly show characters operating without limits, while others don’t.

So I don’t think we can assume limitations by default either; we should go by what each story actually shows rather than adding restrictions that aren’t really there.

 

[Jinx666]

I got permission from SomebodyData to participate here. I think you might be trying to justify the edit you were reported for by setting a general standard.

...Yeah? Im trying to fix and make a CRT, like what constantly is being said is the solution, to something i think is wrong instead of 'vandalising'. Hope thats okay with you. However you're wrong because im putting forward to get rid of their Infinite Stamina entirely, as opposed to saying its a 'Possibly'. Don't see what the issue is

But I don’t think a single rule can be applied to every verse and character like that. Some stories clearly show characters operating without limits, while others don’t.

Not...what im saying at all. Quite the opposite actually

So I don’t think we can assume limitations by default either; we should go by what each story actually shows rather than adding restrictions that aren’t really there.

No cause then you're falling for a no-limits fallacy. We should go by what the story shows, but if you think we should assume everything is infinite until proven otherwise instead of being sensible then idk.
Theres no adding specific restrictions unless they've shown them, but then theres no showing they have infinite, endless stamina just because its never been shown. What exactly do you think is easier and more required to prove: a character having limitations or a character having no limits?

 

[Jinx666]

This is the current justification for infinite stamina

Just reading the OP, to me it seems like the main issue is people confusing not having noticeable fatigue as having infinite stamina. This is more an enforcement issue than a definition issue.

Like we can write it to have disclaimers but the core justification is sound

Glad that its justified already then, just needs to be enforced. Hoping this thread can then start letting it be fixed freely and be a point of reference to any similar discussion.

Disclaimer would be perfect

 

[DontTalkDT]

One can really take infinite stamina on a scale and I think I might have been inconsistent in the past with how I apply it.
Like, in order of how likely I think it would find consideration:

1. You need an inexhaustible energy supply so that you can keep going indefinitely.
2. You need to not need to sleep.
3. You need to not die of old age.
4. You need protection against erosion, corrosion etc. Wear and tear stuff.
5. You need to have the mental ability to keep up a task indefinitely.

Technically, all of these are required to fight indefinitely.
I went as far as applying 5 for Hatou, but I doubt many would agree with going that far.

Personally, I think up to 2 or 3 are likely most reflective of current use.

 

[Jinx666]

When it comes to an infinite stat, we should probably be considering everything given we would also want to identify any stamina-related limits for the characters when choosing so.
It's already stated when a character has Self Sustenance in P&A so it could probably be repeated in the Stamina stat in those cases, though yeah if theres genuinely anything that prevents a character from lasting indefinitely on their own then Infinite doesnt really cut it.

Otherwise though i just want to stamp out it being the default assumption when it comes to stuff like robots or others without any evidence beyond that. And for any publishings from now on to freely fix them.

 

[Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh]

...Yeah? Im trying to fix and make a CRT, like what constantly is being said is the solution, to something i think is wrong instead of 'vandalising'. Hope thats okay with you. However you're wrong because im putting forward to get rid of their Infinite Stamina entirely, as opposed to saying its a 'Possibly'. Don't see what the issue is

Not...what im saying at all. Quite the opposite actually

No cause then you're falling for a no-limits fallacy. We should go by what the story shows, but if you think we should assume everything is infinite until proven otherwise instead of being sensible then idk.
Theres no adding specific restrictions unless they've shown them, but then theres no showing they have infinite, endless stamina just because its never been shown. What exactly do you think is easier and more required to prove: a character having limitations or a character having no limits?

My point still stands though. This is a case-by-case issue because every verse works differently. You can’t really use one general thread to justify removing Infinite Stamina from completely unrelated characters and settings.

Even if this thread gets accepted, that still wouldn’t automatically justify removing ratings from profiles without individual CRTs, especially for verses people aren’t familiar with. Different stories handle robots, undead, and similar beings in completely different ways.

I also think you’re confusing “assuming infinite by default” with “judging based on portrayal.” In many cases, Infinite Stamina is simply based on fatigue never being portrayed as a relevant factor for the character.

By your logic, countless characters on the wiki would end up as “Unknown” simply because their stories never explain their internal mechanics.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

You do not need an infinite supply of energy to truly possess infinite stamina. Technically, the ability to have 100% energy efficiency and you can always just recycle energy for indefinite periods also works. There do exist characters where the explanation of having infinite ammunition is due to having the ability to absorb energy from just about anywhere and then release it. And they can even basically just reabsorb the same energy they just fired. Other things also just have fiction being weird, but you don't necessary need to possess High 3-A amounts of energy to be infinite in stamina. Some characters just don't lose any internal energy no matter how many things they do.

Though I will note simply being a robot or undead does not automatically make one infinite.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

As a CGM my word doesn't mean much but I more or less concur with Apex, Ztes and Qaws' points

 

[Tllmbrg]

One can really take infinite stamina on a scale and I think I might have been inconsistent in the past with how I apply it.
Like, in order of how likely I think it would find consideration:

1. You need an inexhaustible energy supply so that you can keep going indefinitely.
2. You need to not need to sleep.
3. You need to not die of old age.
4. You need protection against erosion, corrosion etc. Wear and tear stuff.
5. You need to have the mental ability to keep up a task indefinitely.

Technically, all of these are required to fight indefinitely.
I went as far as applying 5 for Hatou, but I doubt many would agree with going that far.

Personally, I think up to 2 or 3 are likely most reflective of current use.

I feel like number 3 and 4 aren't really stuff most pages use for infinite stamina justification?
There are a lot of immortal people that clearly do not just have the ability to fight indefinitely, or are immune to environmental effects.
Plus there's a difference between an infinite energy supply and never dying.

 

[Antvasima]

This is the current justification for infinite stamina

Just reading the OP, to me it seems like the main issue is people confusing not having noticeable fatigue as having infinite stamina. This is more an enforcement issue than a definition issue.

Like we can write it to have disclaimers but the core justification is sound

One can really take infinite stamina on a scale and I think I might have been inconsistent in the past with how I apply it.
Like, in order of how likely I think it would find consideration:

1. You need an inexhaustible energy supply so that you can keep going indefinitely.
2. You need to not need to sleep.
3. You need to not die of old age.
4. You need protection against erosion, corrosion etc. Wear and tear stuff.
5. You need to have the mental ability to keep up a task indefinitely.

Technically, all of these are required to fight indefinitely.
I went as far as applying 5 for Hatou, but I doubt many would agree with going that far.

Personally, I think up to 2 or 3 are likely most reflective of current use.

You do not need an infinite supply of energy to truly possess infinite stamina. Technically, the ability to have 100% energy efficiency and you can always just recycle energy for indefinite periods also works. There do exist characters where the explanation of having infinite ammunition is due to having the ability to absorb energy from just about anywhere and then release it. And they can even basically just reabsorb the same energy they just fired. Other things also just have fiction being weird, but you don't necessary need to possess High 3-A amounts of energy to be infinite in stamina. Some characters just don't lose any internal energy no matter how many things they do.

Though I will note simply being a robot or undead does not automatically make one infinite.

I agree with this, but from what I recall, I think that our rules already state that robots, androids, and undead should not automatically gain infinite stamina, and that our members just keep ignoring that rule, but if I am mistaken, it should be mentioned in our Stamina page.

 

[Jinx666]

My point still stands though. This is a case-by-case issue because every verse works differently. You can’t really use one general thread to justify removing Infinite Stamina from completely unrelated characters and settings.

...Thats...my point as well?
Thats the second time now, I have already said blatantly it should be case by case and we shouldnt assume someone is infinite just for other verses. We dont have to find any reason to be a contrarian

Even if this thread gets accepted, that still wouldn’t automatically justify removing ratings from profiles without individual CRTs, especially for verses people aren’t familiar with. Different stories handle robots, undead, and similar beings in completely different ways.

You literally don't need to explain something i already clearly understand? Can you read the OP again if you're confused on what I think. But yeah, this thread would aim to take out all the 'I have infinite stamina because im a robot' stats in one go. Anything less is just making us difficult

I also think you’re confusing “assuming infinite by default” with “judging based on portrayal.” In many cases, Infinite Stamina is simply based on fatigue never being portrayed as a relevant factor for the character.

No, im not. Again, reread.

'I think this character has infinite stamina because ive never seen them be exhausted! and cause theyre a robot' isnt valid.

By your logic, countless characters on the wiki would end up as “Unknown” simply because their stories never explain their internal mechanics.

Yeah...Or a more sensible stat. Far better than assuming that every character has an Infinite rating just because you think they can go on forever. I dont think you grasp how relevant Infinite stamina is


All the likes for varying reasons and its replying to a post labelling the exact opposite of what im saying, i love the CRT process!
If people need it put more blatantly: Stop assuming characters have infinite stamina without any proof or weak reasoning.

 

[Jinx666]

I agree with this, but from what I recall, I think that our rules already state that robots, androids, and undead should not automatically gain infinite stamina, and that our members just keep ignoring that rule, but if I am mistaken, it should be mentioned in our Stamina page.

Would need to be enforced then, but this CRT aims to fix the confusion people clearly have with giving Infinite Stamina for the weakest of reasons.

Its been too free for too long, and people dont seem to grasp how big Infinite Stamina is just because it was a coined term to robots or something

 

[Jinx666]

You do not need an infinite supply of energy to truly possess infinite stamina. Technically, the ability to have 100% energy efficiency and you can always just recycle energy for indefinite periods also works. There do exist characters where the explanation of having infinite ammunition is due to having the ability to absorb energy from just about anywhere and then release it. And they can even basically just reabsorb the same energy they just fired. Other things also just have fiction being weird, but you don't necessary need to possess High 3-A amounts of energy to be infinite in stamina. Some characters just don't lose any internal energy no matter how many things they do.

Though I will note simply being a robot or undead does not automatically make one infinite.

I dont necessarily know what this is replying to specifically but...yeah, if theres a way for a character to maintain its integrity indefinitely, and thats confirmed/backed up then they can have the stat no problem.
But like ive said in multiple posts above im not confusing having infinite energy (relates more to AP) and ergo having infinite stamina. They're different categories, even though by the time you reach up to High 3-A, your Stamina is probably going to be super high regardless.
If their stamina relies on a finite source they cant recycle freely, then its not infinite. Possibly irrelevant but not infinite.

That being said, characters losing power/weakening over time in the course of a fight from their 'prime' is definitely an indicator of stamina

 

[Jinx666]

Mind you, maybe a rating for 'Irrelevant' Stamina would be good for any applicable Tier 2/beyond, since even the fact of 'Infinite Stamina' still suggests it exists in the first place. If theres a being truly not bound by that through being on higher planes of existence for example, as opposed to just being able to go on forever in a conentional sense, then it might be applicable. Characters with Infinite Stamina in that regard would be able to have that changed potentially with these level of characters. I got no idea what people would go through to implement it tho

 

[Jinx666]

Bump

So whats the consensus then?
The Stamina page gets a disclaimer that addresses to not give Infinite Stamina to pages without direct and solid reasoning (not jsut giving it to them for being robots or zombies for example)? And then its free to change this for all the applicable pages to properly enforce this standard that has already existed and just not maintained?