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Fatui, Vision and Delusion (Genshin Impact)

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I want to add some abilities, without further ado, let's get straight to it.

TARTAGLIA
Accelerated Development and Martial Art
Tartaglia was originally just an ordinary child, but at the age of 14, he fell into the Abyss and received training from Skirk. Since then, Childe became obsessed with training and mastered many forms of combat and martial arts. It is also explained that Childe was an exceptionally talented child who was able to defeat many fully armed soldiers of Snezhnaya at a very young age. This was what attracted Pulcinella to him and led to his recruitment into the Fatui, where he eventually became one of the Eleven Fatui Harbingers.
Childe greatly enjoys battle. Aside from training, combat itself is one of the main aspects that continuously makes him stronger. It is even stated that Childe grows stronger every single day.

Analitical Prediction
childe was able to figure out the Traveler’s objective within the labyrinth by analyzing the situation at the time

Supernatural Willpower and Empowerment
As explained before, Childe really likes fighting, so no matter how scary his enemy is, it will only make him more excited. this can also be proven by the incident in Fontaine, where Tartaglia managed to surpass his limits and hold back the Narwhal for a long period of time, ultimately collapsing from exhaustion at the end of the battle.

Summoning
Able to summon a Hydro whale

Durability Negation
The Fatui Harbinger has a special attack to take the Archon's Gnosis, which can penetrate the Archon's body without damaging the outside (shown here, here and here)
note : If accepted, this ability will be possessed by all Fatui Harbingers.

Energy Projection

shown here

Empactic Manipulation
Childe can change his personality, sometimes he looks friendly but a few moments later he becomes a cruel killer, this makes Tartaglia difficult to beat so that other people can misjudge him, he is even called a wolf in sheep's clothing, explains that he can influence someone's empathy towards him.

Acrobatics and Free Movement
Childe can do acrobatic moves (shown here and here), he can also slide on the water (here)

ARLECCHINO
Fear Manipulation
makes traveler so scared that his can't breathe when they meet her. Not only travelers, almost everyone will feel the same pressure when meeting arlecchino

Statistics Amplification
When using the curse within her, she becomes stronger and faster. This was shown during her fight against Crucabena, where Arlecchino initially could not even be considered comparable to Crucabena and was easily overwhelmed. However, after using the curse within her, she became much stronger and faster, allowing her to defeat Crucabena with ease.

Energy Projection
shown here

Danmaku
shown here

Creation and Paralysis Inducment
create various constructions with bloodfire. Making the traveler, lyney and lynette unable to move, furthermore with the illusion that she did to the traveler

Weapon Control and Telekinesis
shown here and here

LA SIGNORA
Temperature Manipulation
Signora's power is able to influence the area around her (here and here)

Homing Attack
releases fire butterflies that can chase targets

Weather Manipulation
can create fire tornadoes

FATUI AGENT
After Image Creation and Acrobatics
creates afterimages, able to jump and spin in the air when attacking

Pressure Point
it is explained that the weapon is capable of attacking the weak points of its target

ABOUT VISION
A Vision is an external magical device used to control the elements. Visions are formed from the user’s ambitions, when a person’s ambition reaches the heavens, the Seven Archons are commanded to grant a portion of their power. A Vision is deeply tied to its user’s ambition and cannot be destroyed or discarded. Keqing once attempted to destroy and throw away her Vision, but failed, because the vision always comes back to her.

The connection between ambition and a Vision is also proven by the case involving Tejima in Inazuma. When his Vision was forcibly taken away, Tejima lost his memories, ambitions, and sense of self. However, once his Vision was returned, he went back to normal and regained his memories, ambitions, and identity. Tejima was not the only case. A similar thing also happened to a swordmaster in Inazuma, who became mentally unstable and lost both his sense of self and his ambitions after his Vision was taken away. Yae also explained that losing vision means losing ambition. These two cases clearly demonstrate the dependency between a Vision and ambition, proving that a Vision is a representation and manifestation of a person’s mentality.

The description in Ineffa’s profile also explains this "Vision" is formed from the stuff of the soul. Theoretically speaking (...) is fixed through wishes.
Yeah, from this we first need to understand how the essence of the soul works in Genshin Impact. The concept spirit and will in Genshin is formed by four fundamental aspects that is the soul, wishes, memory, and persona. If we connect this to the previous cases , namely Tejima and the swordmaster who lost their Visions, resulting in the loss of their memories, spirit, desires, ambitions, and sense of self , then it starts to make sense. Losing a Vision essentially means losing a part of their soul. In Genshin Impact, the concepts of spirit and will are formed by the four aspects mentioned earlier. That is why the aspects that shaped their identity disappeared once their Visions were taken away.

Conclusion
Abstract Existence Type 2

A Vision can be considered an Abstract Existence Type 2 because it is formed from and dependent on the concept of the user’s spirit, including their desires, ambitions, memories, soul, and persona. That is why a Vision cannot simply be discarded or destroyed by its user, since it is fundamentally tied to the very aspects that make up their existence and identity within Genshin Impact.

Conceptual Manipulation Type 3
Controlling a vision means controlling the spiritual concepts associated with the vision, such as wishes, persona, soul, and memory. These are particular concepts that support a person's mentality and identity.

Madness Manipulation Type 2, Empatic Manipulation, Memory Manipulation and Soul Manipulation
Losing vision will cause a person's psyche to be disturbed, losing their memory and identity, because vision is part of their soul, so losing vision means losing part of that soul.

If this is accepted, I would like this explanation to be added to the Vision section on the Elemental Energy page for Genshin Impact.
Note : For Childe and Itto because they lost thier vision, they will gain resistance to type 3 concept manipulation, madness manipulation, memory manipulation, empathy manipulation, and soul manipulation because they are not affected like Tejima when they lost their vision, which means they can withstand those effects.

ABOUT DELUSION
Statistics Amplification
A Delusion can increase its user’s power to an extreme level.

However, unlike visions which do not have negative effects, delusions have negative effects on the user, namely
Age Manipulation, Life Manipulation and Death Manipulation
side from granting power, a Delusion also has negative effects on its user. A Delusion can damage the user’s vitality and drain their life force, causing rapid aging like teppei and potentially even death.
all fatui harbingers will gain resistance to this negative effect, because like childe, signora and arlecchino are users of delision but they are not affected by the negative effect
Yeah, I think that’s all for now. Thank you.

Staff Vote
Agree:

Disagree:

Neutral:
 
There's already 3 ongoing Genshin CRT's now. Yours will be the 4th one. This should be closed temporarily until one of those 3 were done.
 
whichever??
 
okay
 
I'm just gonna mention the things that I have issue with.

Durability Negation
The Fatui Harbinger has a special attack to take the Archon's Gnosis, which can penetrate the Archon's body without damaging the outside (shown here, here and here)
note : If accepted, this ability will be possessed by all Fatui Harbingers.
The DuraNeg itself is fine, but unsure if this can be chainscale to the other harbingers.

Empactic Manipulation
Childe can change his personality, sometimes he looks friendly but a few moments later he becomes a cruel killer, this makes Tartaglia difficult to beat so that other people can misjudge him, he is even called a wolf in sheep's clothing, explains that he can influence someone's empathy towards him.
Not sure about this.

Danmaku
shown here
I've counted those things and the amount of it is not enough to be considered Danmaku.

Weather Manipulation
can create fire tornadoes
This is just Air + Fire manip. So Anemo + Pyro.

Can't see the scan.

Madness Manipulation Type 2, Empatic Manipulation, Memory Manipulation and Soul Manipulation
Losing vision will cause a person's psyche to be disturbed, losing their memory and identity, because vision is part of their soul, so losing vision means losing part of that soul.
These are resistances, not a combat applicable.

Note : For Childe and Itto because they lost thier vision, they will gain resistance to type 3 concept manipulation, madness manipulation, memory manipulation, empathy manipulation, and soul manipulation because they are not affected like Tejima when they lost their vision, which means they can withstand those effects.
Other than those mentioned, theres also Keqing who once attempt to destroy her own Vision by burning it, throw it away from the Jade Chamber, and etc.
Keqing is likely a skeptic without equal when it comes to the value of Visions.

She knows that everything she has is the result of her own hard work, but that in the eyes of others, credit has been given instead to her Vision.

She once believed that this purple crystal had stolen the pride due originally to her, and that it was both a challenge and an insult from the gods.

In fact, she has tried to destroy her Vision countless times — she's left it in a huge fire for three days and three nights, run over it with a minecart full of rocks, and has even hurled it from the heights of the Jade Chamber.

Unfortunately, she has never been successful.

With no options left, and not wanting it to fall into the wrong hands, Keqing was forced to accept the Vision as part of her life.

This somehow should be applied to all Playable characters, cause apparently an NPC despite having a Vision cannot resist this.
 
Abstract Existence Type 2
A Vision can be considered an Abstract Existence Type 2 because it is formed from and dependent on the concept of the user’s spirit, including their desires, ambitions, memories, soul, and persona. That is why a Vision cannot simply be discarded or destroyed by its user, since it is fundamentally tied to the very aspects that make up their existence and identity within Genshin Impact.
Forget to mention this. This should be for the Vision itself.
 
Childe can change his personality, sometimes he looks friendly but a few moments later he becomes a cruel killer, this makes Tartaglia difficult to beat so that other people can misjudge him, he is even called a wolf in sheep's clothing, explains that he can influence someone's empathy towards him.
Don't think this qualifies to be considered empathic manipulation
not enough for danmaku
The Fatui Harbinger has a special attack to take the Archon's Gnosis, which can penetrate the Archon's body without damaging the outside (shown here, here and here)
note : If accepted, this ability will be possessed by all Fatui Harbingers.
It is very unlikely that all Harbingers possess this ability

everything else is fine
 
The DuraNeg itself is fine, but unsure if this can be chainscale to the other harbingers.
all harbingers can still do it, because their main task is to seek gnosis
Not sure about this.
empathic manipulation is manipulating someone's empathy towards us, how it can influence someone's emotions, childe looks friendly on the outside but basically is not like that, this will affect someone's point of view towards him and I think that is enough to get empathic manipulation
I've counted those things and the amount of it is not enough to be considered Danmaku.
idk. i just tried it and waited for the staff
This is just Air + Fire manip. So Anemo + Pyro.
I think tornadoes are generally like that, like if someone can create rain, it's basically just water manipulation
Can't see the scan.
try to copy the link again and open it in search, i think it will work
These are resistances, not a combat applicable.
This will be allocated for the vision page. This will be a special ability for the vision, not the user. The vision user will only gain resistance, and it will still apply to battles.
Other than those mentioned, theres also Keqing who once attempt to destroy her own Vision by burning it, throw it away from the Jade Chamber, and etc.
no, keqing never really separated from vision, she just tried and the vision kept coming back, so the only ones who will get it are childe and itto, because they were once completely separated from their vision like tejima. but they weren't affected the same way tejima was
Forget to mention this. This should be for the Vision itself.
Yeah
 
Don't think this qualifies to be considered empathic manipulation

not enough for danmaku

It is very unlikely that all Harbingers possess this ability

everything else is fine
Msahla also expressed a similar opinion, actually I don't have a problem, but I have tried to explain my reasons, and yeah I will wait for the staff for this case
 
all harbingers can still do it, because their main task is to seek gnosis
Yea, but not all Archons place their Gnosis inside of their body like Venti and Nahida.

empathic manipulation is manipulating someone's empathy towards us, how it can influence someone's emotions, childe looks friendly on the outside but basically is not like that, this will affect someone's point of view towards him and I think that is enough to get empathic manipulation
This is just more like Social Influencing, especially Deception. Simply being outwardly friendly while secretly dangerous does not automatically mean he manipulates empathy itself. Many fictional characters act charming or hide malicious intentions, but that alone is just social skill or deception. To qualify for Empathic Manipulation, you would generally need evidence that he actively influences emotions themselves, not merely people’s opinions of him.

idk. i just tried it and waited for the staff
You don't need to. You need to count of yourself the amount of projectiles there is.
The requirement is at least 20-24 amount of them.
  • To qualify for Danmaku, the user has to be shown to create tens or dozens of projectiles in a very short timeframe (i.e., at least 20 to 24 minimum). The projectiles don't need to be created simultaneously but they should all be shown in motion at roughly the same time.

I think tornadoes are generally like that, like if someone can create rain, it's basically just water manipulation
But what Signora did isn't waether manipulation, that's just Anemo + Pyro.

Literally just like what the Traveler did:
 
Yea, but not all Archons place their Gnosis inside of their body like Venti and Nahida.
Not all Archons keep their Gnosis inside their bodies, but that does not mean the other Harbingers are incapable of extracting it. This is a specialized ability related to obtaining a Gnosis, and it is part of their role as Harbingers. That is why I showed three different characters performing it,.to demonstrate that it is a common ability shared among the Harbingers. After all, one of the Harbingers primary duties is to obtain the Archons’ Gnoses.
This is just more like Social Influencing, especially Deception. Simply being outwardly friendly while secretly dangerous does not automatically mean he manipulates empathy itself. Many fictional characters act charming or hide malicious intentions, but that alone is just social skill or deception. To qualify for Empathic Manipulation, you would generally need evidence that he actively influences emotions themselves, not merely people’s opinions of him.
I don't mind if it has to be changed into social influence
You don't need to. You need to count of yourself the amount of projectiles there is.
The requirement is at least 20-24 amount of them.
I've done it and counted the attacks there, if I'm not counting wrong it's enough
But what Signora did isn't waether manipulation, that's just Anemo + Pyro.

Literally just like what the Traveler did:

Yes, that's what I mean, basically weather manipulation is based on manipulating elements.
 
I definitely disagree on Abstract Existence (Type 2) and especially Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3) if I have to be honest here, having a Vision ≠ the character who wields it will regenerate/resurrect indefinitely and Conceptual Manipulation.. If we are taking that CM3 shit on Imaginary and Paths seriously, this definitely doesn't have a chance of qualifying for CM3 at all
 
I definitely disagree on Abstract Existence (Type 2) and especially Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3) if I have to be honest here, having a Vision ≠ the character who wields it will regenerate/resurrect indefinitely and Conceptual Manipulation.. If we are taking that CM3 shit on Imaginary and Paths seriously, this definitely doesn't have a chance of qualifying for CM3 at all
AE2 is for vision, not vision users; you can reread the post. CM3 can be used because vision users directly manipulate spiritual concepts.

and I don't care about path etc, because it has nothing to do with it
 
AE2 is for vision, not vision users; you can reread the post. CM3 can be used because vision users directly manipulate spiritual concepts.

and I don't care about path etc, because it has nothing to do with it
Object doesn't qualify for AE2 and yes this is not CM3 in any sort of form if we have literal Paths to be universal and still be CM3 despite them controlling reality itself through their Paths. That is the requirement you must fulfill for CM3 nowadays LOL so it's definitely has something to do with this thread.
 
Object doesn't qualify for AE2
Why not? Objects that meet AE requirements will clearly get AE
and yes this is not CM3 in any sort of form if we have literal Paths to be universal and still be CM3 despite them controlling reality itself through their Paths. That is the requirement you must fulfill for CM3 nowadays LOL so it's definitely has something to do with this thread.
I don't understand why you are going off topic and discussing path here., and honestly this doesn't refute anything I've stated
 
I definitely disagree on Abstract Existence (Type 2) and especially Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3) if I have to be honest here, having a Vision ≠ the character who wields it will regenerate/resurrect indefinitely and Conceptual Manipulation.. If we are taking that CM3 shit on Imaginary and Paths seriously, this definitely doesn't have a chance of qualifying for CM3 at all
You misunderstood that. The AE2 is for the Vision itself, not the users.

Object doesn't qualify for AE2 and yes this is not CM3 in any sort of form if we have literal Paths to be universal and still be CM3 despite them controlling reality itself through their Paths. That is the requirement you must fulfill for CM3 nowadays LOL so it's definitely has something to do with this thread.
Whataboutism isn't an acceptable argument. Generally, AE2 means a being/object exists as, is sustained by, or is fundamentally tied to an abstract concept rather than merely having a physical body.

If the object was formed from an abstract concept (like thoughts, fear, ambitions, etc.), and can regenerate indefinitely because the concept itself still exists, then that is usually strong evidence for AE2.

AE2 is basically Immortality Type 8 but it is depends on an Abstract things.
 
Last edited:
childe was able to figure out the Traveler’s objective within the labyrinth by analyzing the situation at the time
This would be an Intelligence Feat.
As explained before, Childe really likes fighting, so no matter how scary his enemy is, it will only make him more excited. this can also be proven by the incident in Fontaine, where Tartaglia managed to surpass his limits and hold back the Narwhal for a long period of time, ultimately collapsing from exhaustion at the end of the battle.
This does not qualify for either ability; people in real life are capable of pushing themselves to exhaustion, and there's no mention of him surpassing his limits.
The Fatui Harbinger has a special attack to take the Archon's Gnosis, which can penetrate the Archon's body without damaging the outside (shown here, here and here)
note : If accepted, this ability will be possessed by all Fatui Harbingers.
I mean, it's Genshin, attacks rarely ever damage their models. Not enough evidence to apply; it's not just a normal attack.
Childe can change his personality, sometimes he looks friendly but a few moments later he becomes a cruel killer, this makes Tartaglia difficult to beat so that other people can misjudge him, he is even called a wolf in sheep's clothing, explains that he can influence someone's empathy towards him.
That's just a personality trait.
This is Social Influencing, not some supernatural fear.
Danmaku
shown here
Those are not projectiles.
Not Weather Manipulation
That's not a Pressure Point.
Conceptual Manipulation Type 3
Controlling a vision means controlling the spiritual concepts associated with the vision, such as wishes, persona, soul, and memory. These are particular concepts that support a person's mentality and identity.
Disagree with treating them as concepts just because they were talking about the idea of something.
side from granting power, a Delusion also has negative effects on its user. A Delusion can damage the user’s vitality and drain their life force, causing rapid aging like teppei and potentially even death.
It can lead to death, but it doesn't just make you die, so it's not Death Manipulation.

Rest is fine.
 
Disagree with treating them as concepts just because they were talking about the idea of something.
Isn't it clearly stated as a spiritual concept, I mean, it really supports one's spirituality. What if it is manipulated, it will have a direct impact on the person's identity?
This would be an Intelligence Feat.
Ok
This does not qualify for either ability; people in real life are capable of pushing themselves to exhaustion, and there's no mention of him surpassing his limits.
Childe was basically only able to use foul legacy for a very short time, but when facing Narwhal he actually fought for a very long time
I mean, it's Genshin, attacks rarely ever damage their models. Not enough evidence to apply; it's not just a normal attack.
I mean, we are really shown how the attack mechanism works, it really penetrates the archon's body very easily, considering that the archon's durability is much greater than the childe's attack potency, isn't that durability negation. because if we consider the childe's attack potency is much higher than the archon's durability, it's even more unreasonable.
That's just a personality trait.
Ok
This is Social Influencing, not some supernatural fear.
Ok
Those are not projectiles.
Ok
Not Weather Manipulation
Ok
That's not a Pressure Point.
Ok
It can lead to death, but it doesn't just make you die, so it's not Death Manipulation.
Ok
 
Isn't it clearly stated as a spiritual concept, I mean, it really supports one's spirituality. What if it is manipulated, it will have a direct impact on the person's identity?
The word concept isn't always referring to the type we use in the verse. It can also just mean idea, and considering it was explaining spirit and will, there's reason to believe it was suing it in the secondary context.
Childe was basically only able to use foul legacy for a very short time, but when facing Narwhal he actually fought for a very long time
Still wouldn't be enough for Supernatural Willpower; perhaps Stamina.
I mean, we are really shown how the attack mechanism works, it really penetrates the archon's body very easily, considering that the archon's durability is much greater than the childe's attack potency, isn't that durability negation. because if we consider the childe's attack potency is much higher than the archon's durability, it's even more unreasonable.
Sadly, we can't make assumptions when it comes to how abilities work.
 
The word concept isn't always referring to the type we use in the verse. It can also just mean idea, and considering it was explaining spirit and will, there's reason to believe it was suing it in the secondary context.

Still wouldn't be enough for Supernatural Willpower; perhaps Stamina.

Sadly, we can't make assumptions when it comes to how abilities work.
Okay, thank you in advance, but I will wait for input from other staff so I can draw the right conclusion before editing the CRT, thank you again 🙏
 
Abstract Existence Type 2
A Vision can be considered an Abstract Existence Type 2 because it is formed from and dependent on the concept of the user’s spirit, including their desires, ambitions, memories, soul, and persona. That is why a Vision cannot simply be discarded or destroyed by its user, since it is fundamentally tied to the very aspects that make up their existence and identity within Genshin Impact.
Vision does not qualify for Abstract Existence Type-2 because it is still that of a concrete spiritual object, not an abstract conceptual existence itself. Being formed from ambition, wishes, or the soul only shows that a Vision is spiritually linked to its user, not that it literally exists as a concept. The loss of memories, ambitions, or identity after losing a Vision demonstrates spiritual and psychological dependency, not conceptual existence. Tejima and the others did not cease to exist, nor were they conceptually erased; they merely suffered mental and spiritual deterioration. Furthermore, Visions are still physical objects that can be touched, carried, confiscated, and sealed, which contradicts the nature of Abstract Existence Type-2. Therefore, the evidence supports Visions being soul-bound metaphysical artifacts rather than abstract conceptual entities.

Edit: Other than that i agreed.
 
Vision does not qualify for Abstract Existence Type-2 because it is still that of a concrete spiritual object, not an abstract conceptual existence itself. Being formed from ambition, wishes, or the soul only shows that a Vision is spiritually linked to its user, not that it literally exists as a concept. The loss of memories, ambitions, or identity after losing a Vision demonstrates spiritual and psychological dependency, not conceptual existence. Tejima and the others did not cease to exist, nor were they conceptually erased; they merely suffered mental and spiritual deterioration. Furthermore, Visions are still physical objects that can be touched, carried, confiscated, and sealed, which contradicts the nature of Abstract Existence Type-2. Therefore, the evidence supports Visions being soul-bound metaphysical artifacts rather than abstract conceptual entities.

Edit: Other than that i agreed.
AE does not have to be a concept, as long as it is an abstraction such as ambition, thought, desire etc., it still meets the AE classification.
 
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