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TV Invincible Speed CRT
- Thread starter Tahoy49574
- Start date
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- #42
Well, high caliber seems too much for them as they didn't even try to dodge but use the other as shield against the GDA's turret. Besides that and failing to dodge the bullet, I really don't have anything. There's one failing to dodge a tank but that was thrown by a Guardian so
Either way, my main point is that characters who would scale to them don't have the feats to back up Relativistic speeds. Like Robot who can easily evade them with acrobatics, but was struck plenty of times by some military in the artic.
I know these aren't perfect so I'm open to suggestions
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...That's not a feat for anything except the GDA's shit, the turret cut through em like butter.
Yeah he was cockiky grinning, telling him to do it, and ate shit cause he got shit in the eye and thought he could tank it.
Yeah I'm fine with downgrading them I'm just not fine with downgrading them for the bullet reasons lmfao, them scaling to Invincible is perfectly fine to call inconsistent/an outlier.
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Agree with the Immortal upgrade. Agree with option 2 in regards to scaling. The reason I think option 2 is the best is because Erik Kirkman has already made pretty clear his stance on powerscaling, and that is he doesn't really care about it at all and only has a very general idea on the power levels in the series. We already follow this line of thinking for AP and durability, otherwise everyone would be several tiers higher than what they are consistently portrayed as. I know a common counterargument is that all the fights are plot relevant and it would lead to massive plot discrepancies, but my argument is that they already have massive plot discrepancies to begin with. Robot and Monster girl doing any damage at all to Battle beast is inconsistent and we acknowledge that when scaling them. Immortal clashing several times and drawing blood from Omni-man is inconsistent and we acknowledge that when scaling him. I don't even think I need to bring up the walking contradiction that Invincible is. The point is that we already adhere to the idea that unless characters are portrayed as relative to each other, we don't scale them to one another in AP and dura, and I believe we should apply the same standards to speed scaling as well. Thank Kirkman and his lack of concern for consistent powerscaling for it but this is how it has to be to accurately scale any character to one another in this series.
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I'm gonna stay Neutral on the Immortal Flight Speed Upgrade for one main reason, we don't actually know how much time it took him to reach Allen.
The Immortal flies away and we see in the Background that Allen is currently entering the Atmosphere [since he's lighting it on fire], the next scene takes place after a cut when The Immortal punches Allen. As you all might notice, during the cut we know that Allen went from entering the Atmosphere, to flying back out [after he remembered that he doesn't know where Mark lives] and then after flying out [all off screen], he then just stares at the Planet for a while before scene 2 happens.
This should most likely mean that we can't use this scene since it depends on whether On Screen Time is the actual Time Taken and not Cinematic Timing or sum where they skip the unnecessary extra minutes it takes the The Immortal to fly up there.
Though I do propose a higher upgrade [that may be contentious] to The Immortal's scaling by using this fight from Season 2 where an Alternate Mark [likely anywhere from Season 1-2 in terms of power and speed] is fighting relatively matched with The Immortal and eventually the The Immortal is able to almost win the fight by choking him out [until Omni-Man intervenes and ends him]. So we could upgrade The Immortal to Relativistic with this in mind if we assume that Invincible was even trying to fight at those speeds, afterall he has casual feats that range from Sub-Relativistic to Relativistic.
Minor Note :- In this episode Cecil mentioned that Allen travelled from Mars to Earth’s atmosphere in 1 hour and 15 minutes. Running this through the speed calculator it would put Allen’s travel speed at 259,680,000 km/h or 2% SOL which is also Sub-Relativistic [This is Pre-Recovery Allen btw] . Allen could've realistically be flying at these types of speeds if not slower around Earth [to not destroy the planet by flying too fast? maybe to not burn away the atmosphere or sum] which could explain why the The Immortal could caught up to him in MHS+ speeds.
I'm simply conflicted on this, can't decide anything yet
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- #46
Relating to Immortal, I should mention it's really the weird the way his speed is rated. Flying and Combat speeds are clearly intrinsically related and it makes no sense to treat Immortal like this weird outlier with Combat speed magnitudes above his flight
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I can agree with this, the main reason for such weird speed scaling is all of them trying to take credit to scale off Omni-Man which lead to the Immortal getting MFTL+ Speed and everyone in the verse as a result
Your idea about reducing their speed to make the pages more consistent is something I'll agree with tho, I'm with Opinion 1.
Powerplex could get Massively Hypersonic Scaling since his Powers are him shooting Lightning but that might be a bit too dumbed downed and would also upscale all the Guardians due to Shapesmith briefly dodging/evading his Lightning. Though Powerplex can tag the likes of Invincible while they were fighting in Season 3 so maybe this seems like a fair estimate. Also if I remember correctly, he also fights and scales to Atom Eve during that Memorial Fight Scene
As for Red Rush, he is the only one who could see Omni-Man's attack while the Immortal was frozen. So he can upscale the Immortal's and by extension the Guardians speed scaling for his scaling.
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- #48
Don't think it meets the requirements for treat it as real lightning.
Only other character to shoot lightning is Kursk and he blitzes everyone with it
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To be fair, Powerplex should have faster than MHS+ combat and reactions anyway since in this fight mainly this scene we see him manage to rush Atom Eve with her barely having enough time to make a shield to block. They could scale relatively off eachother and since Atom Eve currently scales to Relativistic off of Season 1 Mark's Moon Flying Feat.
I think the Humans have Relativistic scaling should be fine
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Atom Eve was a stealth-made profile without any supporter input and has a downgrade being prepped for her.
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- #51
Actually, your hypersonic Atom Eve calc would be useful here if true
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It was for Killcanon shooting through a skyscraper in s1 ep1 and I made it a while ago so I fixed a few things. It's Supersonic+
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And the downgrade is of her not scaling to Conquest during their fight, Relativistic seems fine since she was relative to S1 Mark who had Sub-Rel to Rel feats atp
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Mark is a walking inconsistency machine. Ever wanted to see 7-A Rex Splode? Cause ya would if we just scaled everyone to S1 Mark from what happens in S1 and assuming he doesn't hold back.
Hellbeast
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I’d also note could trade blows with an, admittedly held back, Mark variant for some time and could react to his movements even if overwhelmed.
Could help us with the idea he scales to an early mark, and he himself seems to believe he could hold up to an early Mark if he went bad
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Btw there is also another scene in the same fight where Eve is able to stand her ground against Doc Siesmic's Shockwaves while Mark is flung back, also Eve's energy thing dissipates faster than Mark' Flight Speed so there is that as well.
It seems somewhat fair to assume that at least for a ceiling we can have Humans at Relativistic
Edit :- I forgot to answer the actual point mb, I see nothing wrong with scaling characters like Eve to S1 Invincible cause they are depicted as being relative on more than one occasion. I don't see Rexsplode being relative to Invincible in any fights.
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I wouldn't really take The Immortal fighting evenly with an Invincible Variant who is stronger than S1 as holding back that much [especially in the C/R part], after all S2 Invincible already surpassed Immortal by a considerable margin while Immortal is normally agreed to be superior to S1 Invincible.
The Immortal's mostly scale relative to S1 Invincible Feats at worst, and so he should get S1 Invincible casual speed feats atleast which are Sub-Rel to Rel level
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No way you're implying Eve is physically stronger than Mark
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We also have to keep in mind that an alternate Immortal had the upper hand against a Mark variant which should at least be season 1 Mark level. I think it should be fine for him to scale to season 1 mark in all ways.
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Basically what I've been trying to get at, S1 Invincible wasn't that strong anyways and was still around most Earth Villains so the Strongest Superhero on Earth besides Omni-Man scaling to a Newbie Invincible should be relatively fine
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I'm just mentioning the scene, she did do better against Doc Seismic than Newbie Invincible so we have other feats for her as well in the same fight. It does feel inconsistent since Eve shouldn't be Mountain Level or sum in Physicals so yeah can agree there. Just another scene of Invincible having Inconsistent power showingsNo way you're implying Eve is physically stronger than Mark
Also we're getting sidetracked, main point of this thread is speed and we haven't gotten that many people to decide on what to pick
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Bump!
Did everyone disappear? Someone call the Mods
Did everyone disappear? Someone call the Mods
AyOgUyS
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later
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- #65
Any thoughts on what's been discussed so far ?
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Majority agreed to Immortal speed upgrade, I'm leaning towards that as well due to narrative consistency like Immortal Scaling to S1 Invincible albeit the Variant he fought could be slightly stronger but should be below S2 [Immortal scaling to S1 Invincible is sort of agreed here and here by some participants]
And I think we're sort of tied between Option 1 and Option 2? I didn't look but I saw a reply saying Option 2 and I remember going with Option 1 earlier. Maybe we need a discussion on that rn
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I know that, I specifically want mods to check these
Tho being honest, right now I'd really like that Killcannon feat to be evaluated, as Eve can easily react and block his attacks and oddly enough would be consistent with Cecil's statement that she can fly to Mach 3
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So which option is winning now?
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- #69
From the mods that did check the thread, Option 1.
Votes were reseted after I tweaked it tho, and will likely again after the Killcannon feat is evaluated
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Oh okay, what do you think of a option 4 like, Hypersonic on Earth and MFTL+ in space, If they were going at those speeds, Earth would explode, or is there some feat that disproves that?
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I mean, wording it like that makes it seem like the very fact of being on a planet limits their speed. It's just a conscious decision not to pull a Flaxan everywhere they go
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Maybe something like "massively Hypersonic in planets(They hold back enough not to destroy the planet)'''
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Mentioning they hold back on Planets is a bit weird because in a VS Battle for instance where they don't care about protecting the planet they'd go MFTL+ without really caring. It also doesn't make sense to argue that they're Massively Hypersonic+ on Earth when we have Season 1 Invincible (who Immortal upscales) at Relativistic.
Like maybe "At Least Massively Hypersonic+ travel speed (flew this fast to space), At least Relativistic combat and reaction speed (fought relatively with Season 1 Invincible Variant)"
I'm on my Phone so can't really link stuff well so apologize if the wording or linking is a bit wrong
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Just so we're clear, we're talking about this Atom Eve vs Killcannon fight and not this Young Eve VS Killcannon fight?
Atom Eve blocked all of his attacks and moved faster than Killcannon could react so I'm assuming this is what we're talking about. The other fight is a bit questionable since she seems to be aim dodging most of the attacks
Btw what even is the speed of Killcannon's beams, they look somewhat like lasers but I'm not really sure.
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We definitely shouldn't return to a "Varied" rating, we already discussed why it shouldn't be applied + I don't think this qualifies for VSBW's "varies" eating since that only applies if it actually varies with an in universe explanation (like Powerplex's AP being varies because it depends on how much KE he has absorbed or sum)
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I mean, the "holding back" thing is functionally that and about 3 mods agreed on the overall premise of them operating at different speeds so
Hellbeast
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The Invincible guidebook triumphs again inshallahI mean, the "holding back" thing is functionally that and about 3 mods agreed on the overall premise of them operating at different speeds so
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Fair enough, tho weren't we talking about the Immortal and Eve rn cause the Holding Back stuff is js focused on the ViltrumitesI mean, the "holding back" thing is functionally that and about 3 mods agreed on the overall premise of them operating at different speeds so
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