Chainsaw Man discussion thread

[GunshyFever]

Yeah, I like that view and I have a similar one, but with more emphasis on the guilt. For example, her power literally works through guilt, because Yoru can turn things into weapons based on Asa's sense of ownership and emotional attachment. I definitely see this stemming from her personal experiences, like her mother's death, her cat and the people around her. The more she cares about something, the more painful it becomes to use it and she has an alter ego, that being War, who keeps using the things she cares about for the sake of creating her own ideal world and targets. It is similar to how everything Asa loves turns into a weapon and how everyone Denji loves gets killed because of the aftereffects of being Chainsaw Man, but their issues stem from their devils.

But I am also glad you touched base on Pochita's world vs Yoru's world and the contrast between Yoru and Pochita and how they treat their hosts, like Pochita creating a new world for the sake of his buddy Denji and Yoru creating her own world against Asa's will for her own selfish desires. There are a lot of nitty gritty themes (and such) to dive through, but I have not hit the nail on the head yet.

But I definitely do agree that Asa was likely going to be her own (main) character at one point before Denji took the spotlight.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

we talking about CSM's ending again?
hm. i really don't like the ending but I'll reread and give my 100% indepth thoughts on csm p2 and csm as a whole

 

[IbukiDoujisGiantTail]

Yeah, I like that view and I have a similar one, but with more emphasis on the guilt. For example, her power literally works through guilt, because Yoru can turn things into weapons based on Asa's sense of ownership and emotional attachment. I definitely see this stemming from her personal experiences, like her mother's death, her cat and the people around her. The more she cares about something, the more painful it becomes to use it and she has an alter ego, that being War, who keeps using the things she cares about for the sake of creating her own ideal world and targets. It is similar to how everything Asa loves turns into a weapon and how everyone Denji loves gets killed because of the aftereffects of being Chainsaw Man, but their issues stem from their devils.

But I am also glad you touched base on Pochita's world vs Yoru's world and the contrast between Yoru and Pochita and how they treat their hosts, like Pochita creating a new world for the sake of his buddy Denji and Yoru creating her own world against Asa's will for her own selfish desires. There are a lot of nitty gritty themes (and such) to dive through, but I have not hit the nail on the head yet.

But I definitely do agree that Asa was likely going to be her own (main) character at one point before Denji took the spotlight.

yeah the guilt aspect of it is really cool, It's not as fully utilized as it could have been imo but even during the last stretch of fights we do see the rule apply to Yoru as well, her Tank and Gun arms as well as piecemealing her precious America is why they're so destructive. That plus her having a whole shonen power of friendship speech against Pochita about how all of Hell is her friend while Pochita (who just wanted a hug) is friendless bitchless and stacking no paper is just perfect

Yeah the world made for their hosts is a really awesome parallel, I think its neat that like, Yoru and Denji share the aspect of being blindsided by Asa (Sabotaged Yoru) and Pochita (nommed himself to save Denji), there's clear love on both ends but the tragedy of it all comes from how the connection couldnt last forever. A Devils love and a Devils mindset are incompatible with humans no matter the intention.

 

[Justkeepwading]

Do you guys think denji and pochita are subconscious aware of the soul, considering how many times they've interacted metaphysically and even that weird way denji was speaking to asa despite neither of them being in control of their bodies

 

[Bruh]

Do you guys think denji and pochita are subconscious aware of the soul, considering how many times they've interacted metaphysically and even that weird way denji was speaking to asa despite neither of them being in control of their bodies

Your might be onto something, idk about soul, but Pochita was able to locate and communicate with Power's stray blood inside Denji and even feed himself to her despite she being borderline dead at the time. And Denji communicating with Asa in a shared mindscape despite none on them being physically connceted through Yoru nor Pochita is also interesting, maybe Clairvoyance ?

 

[Justkeepwading]

Your might be onto something, idk about soul, but Pochita was able to locate and communicate with Power's stray blood inside Denji and even feed himself to her despite she being borderline dead at the time. And Denji communicating with Asa in a shared mindscape despite none on them being physically connceted through Yoru nor Pochita is also interesting, maybe Clairvoyance ?

I mean, even when pochita and denji finally get eaten, and pochita eats himself, he's able to affect his physical being from that metaphysical realm somehow, I'm just thinking more in like of how jjk for example views the soul and being aware of the soul, and idk, I feel like those two might fit the criteria someway

 

[GunshyFever]

It's likely just telepathy. Pochita was capable of doing the same to Denji when he was his heart and now that Denji is the heart, we know the extent it can reach, considering Denji can communicate with Asa.

 

[Alexander]

I still don't think Yuji can separate them in anyway

 

[GunshyFever]

He can't even physically. He'd just have to kill them normally via incap.

 

[Bruh]

I still don't think Yuji can separate them in anyway

I mean their bond is biological not spiritual so yeah

 

[Bruh]

It's likely just telepathy. Pochita was capable of doing the same to Denji when he was his heart and now that Denji is the heart, we know the extent it can reach, considering Denji can communicate with Asa.

Pochita using his erasure on himself in that mindscape despite being physically eaten atm is still interesting tho, does this mean he can use his power mentally as well ?

 

[IbukiDoujisGiantTail]

I mean their bond is biological not spiritual so yeah

Yeah plus Dennis and Pochita's contract isn't exactly soul-based? Like they do have some sort of spiritual connection but it's not something Yuji could conventionally break. Even assuming he could, there's nothing stopping Denji from just... putting Pochita back in his chest or Pochita doing another contract to save Denjis life

 

[GunshyFever]

Pochita using his erasure on himself in that mindscape despite being physically eaten atm is still interesting tho, does this mean he can use his power mentally as well ?

It was probably a situation like this;

Meaning that Pochita likely physically ate his heart while in a devil's stomach.

 

[Epiccheev]

Pochita using his erasure on himself in that mindscape despite being physically eaten atm is still interesting tho, does this mean he can use his power mentally as well ?

Pochita was eaten by Power in the "spiritual" realm, and Pochita ate himself in the "spiritual" realm while physically incapacitated.
Wich means... uh...

 

[GunshyFever]

Fujimoto:

 

[Alexander]

Fujimoto:

Pochita powers in general are VAGUE AS ****, to the point that he can make up whatever bullshit he wants for them even with "rules" (more like, experiments done to see at least a glimpse of that)

 

[GunshyFever]

The E.E experimentation arc was kinda made to show us that his powers are meant to be messy and chaotic.

The telepathy stuff could use some explanations though.

 

[Breadbear83]

Great, then the goal is to estimate when her range was able to cover the entire world at once and as a lowball, a single nation.

Gunshy im about to take a look if i can make a Falling Devil reversing earths gravity recalc, as Eljoaki5 supported this way of calcing it, besides the feat being discussed pages before your comment, i saw this feat also being discussed in page 214 of our discussion thread but nothing relevant in it, just how its enviromental destruction

something else i should know about it tho? i know it comes from this Calc, theres this other calc someone else have made but doesnt seems good as reference

as for ´´the single nation´´ maybe should i use Japan or USA? cuz i could get more information about their land and more from them, but also countries varies in size



i´d assume timeframe started at earliest when Falling Devil was creating her body out of human corpses, and ended when Fami eat her again, the fight clearly didnt last even 1 hour cuz reading the whole arc takes less than half and hour to do, and everything in the arc happens fast (still should look at the chapters and the feat overall)

 

[GunshyFever]

Snip

If you do this I would probably suggest making multiple ends:

End 1: one specific shown area or one clearly affected nation.
End 2: several affected regions or nations if the statement supports it (it does).

Japan may be the safest choice only because the scene takes place there. Timeframe is alright imo.

 

[Bruh]

Idk how youre supposed to calc that, as all we know is that Falling reverse gravity across the world to such an extent that the destruction cause ALL country to become poorer, tho its not like she reversed gravity across every square inch of the planet surface

 

[GunshyFever]

Idk how youre supposed to calc that, as all we know is that Falling reverse gravity across the world to such an extent that the destruction cause ALL country to become poorer, tho its not like she reversed gravity across every square inch of the planet surface

That's why using region(s) would be feasible, no? As it was stated that those were the primary things in which were affected.

Other than that idk. Chariot said he knew how to calc it, so maybe it is best to ask him.

 

[Breadbear83]

If you do this I would probably suggest making multiple ends:

End 1: one specific shown area or one clearly affected nation.
End 2: several affected regions or nations if the statement supports it (it does).

Japan may be the safest choice only because the scene takes place there. Timeframe is alright imo.

barely starting research but when looking at ´´estimating when her range cover the entire world´´ i see the furthest points from Tokyo are places in Brazil of at about 18000km, could get a speed calc of High Hypersonic too with the 30 minutes timeframe

these are the 2 Statements of the Feat, i guess the landslides and she lifting buildings will explain better the feat, but it does seems like those ´´universe shaking´´ feats where Earth somehow isnt obliterated even while being a grain of salt compared to the whole universe, in this case Tokyo barely seems damaged (the nearby places within the Falling Devil fight), but the statements implies that other countries did got seriously damaged

That's why using a region(s) would be feasible, no? As it was stated that those were the primary things in which were affected.

Other than that idk. Chariot said he knew how to calc it, so maybe it is best to ask him.

he said like ´´i know how to calc it´´ without just saying it? already asked him once about how he got the over 8ft tall pochita calc and said he just forgot, maybe same thing here, hes retired but ill see if i end up needing his help

 

[GunshyFever]

he said like ´´i know how to calc it´´ without just saying it? already asked him once about how he got the over 8ft tall pochita calc and said he just forgot, maybe same thing here, hes retired but ill see if i end up needing his help

He made a rough calc for it years ago and got High 6-A to 5-B. Try asking him for his method or if he could just help in general.

 

[Bruh]

That's why using region(s) would be feasible, no? As it was stated that those were the primary things in which were affected.

Other than that idk. Chariot said he knew how to calc it, so maybe it is best to ask him.

Maybe 10% of all countries landmass ?

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Not to interrupt the interesting convos going on here, but I got a couple of matches you might wanna comment on.

The first looks like a decisive W for base Denji, but it'd be nice to confirm he'd have the evasiveness, stamina, etc to put down a tanky chainsaw-wielder who practically no-sells base-ish 9-A & has faster travel speed.

The second is a Makima match vs a guy who is literally custom-built to deal with extensive immortality, but it might be a stomp in her favor since I'm not sure if Bang & TK are dodgeable at all or how useful her precognition is.



Incidentally, I've only seen the show + movie & read up to about the same point, but I like CSM so far. Was gonna wait for more animation but since that's not happening anytime soon, I'll read more after catching up on Fire Punch & such. Don't spoil too many details in replies to me too much, but here are a few thoughts I have that you might find interesting in & beyond my context of being just near the start.

Some people are turned off by it, but I like how bluntly honest Denji & by extension Fujimoto is about desires (and the disappointment and self-reflection of realizing the full scope of some of them) instead of feigning much altruistic idealism in someone who shouldn't logically have it. What I've heard about the ending seems to suggest that Denji didn't learn his lessons, which might be kinda defeatist. But in at least earlier events I thought it was useful to foreground how stunted growth & lack of initiation can result in one being unprepared for even later opportunities. Yet as long as the scale isn't too destructive, sometimes one can just try to appreciate the good that was in a ruined thing (like the various doomed romances) & try to power through instead of letting negative associations ruin everything in the future (like the unfortunate first kiss). Probably nothing new to you readers, just thought you might find the perspective of someone who hasn't caught up yet interesting.

 

[GunshyFever]

I will not spoil you. However, judging from your views you might find the ending interesting at the very least.

When you decide to catch up let me know your opinion. I enjoy hearing the thoughts and theories of new readers.

 

[Breadbear83]

alright using the original calc formulas where earths mass and its radius are being considered (cuz even while using a single nation, the feat is still related to Earths gravity and its happening worldwide, single nations being used as not all earths land being affected)

Results for Japan ends is 222.94 Exatons, Moon Level, and for USA end is 5.47 Zettatons, Small Planetary level, and both varying Class Z LS

thing is, on what way do i use the 30 minutes timeframe? like just divide the results by 1800 seconds? if i did then both ends would be High 6A

Calc here

 

[Epiccheev]

Saw a High 6-A calc and wondered if i was in the right thread for a moment

 

[GunshyFever]

thing is, on what way do i use the 30 minutes timeframe? like just divide the results by 1800 seconds? if i did then both ends would be High 6A

Sounds reasonable to me honestly

 

[Breadbear83]

alright, Calc updated with the timeframe, now gunshy id tell you to leave whatever CRT you are doing and make one of why the God tier scale to this physically, with any wank scaling you can think of, we gotta get ready for the death battle!

but now seriously, if trying to remediate with the calc being too high, first looking at it: its affects places all around the world, but its not every corner, so thats why we use one nation (like japan) as if it did affect all of it, and its still overtime, so we divide using Japan with timeframe

but another thing, specifically the feat refers to causing landslides, which leads to devastation that makes all countries poorer, Falling Devil doesnt neccesarily needs to lift the entirety of Japan (or actually the entirety of some places of the world), and with entirety, i refer to the whole elevation from sea level of those parts around the world, Japan for example has 438 meters of elevation from sea level, this is 438 meters of materials like Rock (some countries are over 1000 meters of elevation), above sea level

feat could refer to for example lifting all the trees of a forest/most buildings of a city, which are dozens up to hundreds or more below than lifting the whole elevation from sea level of that area

idk how could i do that, if theres some data of for example weights of certain cities/forest (only the buildings, forest, and other structures) maybe its possible, sounds like a more viable way to calc it

 

[Breadbear83]

hey anyone know where to read CSM in japanese? i think falling devil statements about her feat may mean a whole different thing for the calc in the original translation

 

[GunshyFever]

Get the raws and then send them in the translation request thread

 

[Bruh]

leave whatever CRT you are doing and make one of why the God tier scale to this physically, with any wank scaling you can think of, we gotta get ready for the death battle!

If DB scaled Makima and Reze to Typhoon Devil's storm, i wouldnt be surprised if they scale Pochita to Falling's global gravity reversal or Aging's world. Tho it would also be on brand for them to not even follow their own internal logic

 

[GunshyFever]

I have a feeling they'll have Pochita's body above Yuji

 

[IbukiDoujisGiantTail]

I think they're just gonna highball both tbh; Yuji with the best scaling like Gojo's earthquake feat or whatever highball mountain level JJK there is while Denji will certainly have Falling Devil scaling at minimum just from clashing with Yoru in the last fight not just with Pochita but Denji Man

 

[Epiccheev]

Falling devil vs lifting angel

 

[Bruh]

lifting angel

Mashle ahh name

 

[Bruh]

SInce Agings world have a star why does most calc only assume planet creation or do we assume he created his world near some random pre-existing star ?

 

[Breadbear83]

SInce Agings world have a star why does most calc only assume planet creation or do we assume he created his world near some random pre-existing star ?

Any planet close to a star wouldnt have lakes due to the temperature the star would give to the planet

I'd say it's better calc the fact it has a few mountains, it's more realistic than a whole planet

 

[GunshyFever]

A young Aging Devil after accidentally creating his first planet