- 2,987
- 1,140
- Thread starter
- #161
What's the threshold, you reckon?
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Low Tier Marvel Comics Speed Revisions
- Thread starter Rex_Eckles
- Start date
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- Tags
- marvel comics
- 4,879
- 2,171
If it leads to more work then so be it, you downgraded the planet tiers despite the fact that will cause massive problems in scaling. It's better to work hard to solve the problem than going around with easy solutions that get nowhere.How is an MHS+ a supporting feat to a Sub-Rel+?
Yeah but every single verse doesn't have hundreds of writers and artists and thousands of characters, is the issue :V.
When a speed feat scales to 20 characters written by the same person who usually has a static understanding of a character's tiering that's more understandable.
When a speed feat scales to 100 characters written by different people who just only have an option to refer to a single digit or their own biases, and different understandings of a character's tiering amongst them.
Owing to the medium and narrative structure/setpieces in general, AP tends to be more iconic (If this be my or the ending of Spider-Man 1990s), writers tend to have a more static grasp of what characters do, and you have the idea of natural convergeance or tiering based on strength class (which btw AP how we treat it is still flawed and we do actually need way more feats.
And as said I think most people on the wiki blow at speed ratings in general, but we should contrast Marvel to comparable verses. The comparable verses to Marvel are DC () and what used to exist: SCP, and SCP had very stratified speed ratings despite having convergent tiers.
Ye I follow but y'know, shifting goalposts. If we are planning on "fixing" something it would naturally lead to more work, unfortunately.
- 12,816
- 8,648
Relevance? It's a wild thing to say for other reasons too but that is going off-topic
Yeah so work hard and get more than 1 calc per a hundred profiles.
It's 19000x actually. At a 100x you only have 8 feats from your highest
I mean I have never heard of a 19000x weaker supporting feat before
It does because context and framework of that feat matters. One might have the feat as them at their peak while the other might have it casual. If something is framed as a peak or has an urgency to it it's an antifeat for anything higher. Which, give me a mo, I'll maybe try to check your feats one by one in the coming days once the assignments let off :y
Dunno, vibes based? Should be 10 to 20 feats that are in at max 30x range of each other.
But of course that's something I don't think is standardized anyways. Which goes both ways.
- 12,816
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But yeah I don't wanna dismiss the work done here, it's a valuable compendium at least, I believe Rex and Suig collected these alone? I just think it's too disparate to propose a tier off of, especially if you are shooting that far and having hundreds of characters scaling.
Is it better than the current one? Yeah, but I think maybe you guys should've made a feat collection thread before a proposal/rescale one.
Is it better than the current one? Yeah, but I think maybe you guys should've made a feat collection thread before a proposal/rescale one.
- 2,987
- 1,140
- Thread starter
- #165
Not sure how you got that, the lowest MHS+ value I presented is only 17.71 times slower than the fastest Sub-Rel.
Well, good news:
- Mar-Vell flies to space (mach 3,316.46)
- Carol Danvers flies to space again (mach 6,121.5)
- Namor and Mar-Vell fly to space (mach 6,650.5)
- Carol Danvers flies to space (mach 8,130.8)
- Super Skrull flies to space (0.0107 c)
- Carol Danvers flies to space with a nuke this time (0.0125 c)
- The Model 4 flies around the Sun (0.024 c)
- Mar-Vell flies around the Sun (0.061 c)
- Rouge flies to the Moon (0.065 c)
- Black Bolt flies a similar distance to an identical missile to one that went to space really quickly (0.0672 c)
Yes, but, why is that unique to Marvel and DC comics? That's the case for every verse. I don't know what we're arguing about.
- 2,987
- 1,140
- Thread starter
- #166
I can't take credit, I found the non-Carol scans on Reddit. Suig is he real mvp. Thanks anyway.
Maybe.
- 12,816
- 8,648
Mach 31?
Yeah sure, I'll check the context and if it works out I'll yes it.
But if you want a straight answer, whataboutisms. Antifeats are a part of the wiki, no standard exists to say they're not. So it shouldn't matter how other verses look like, the objective is what you're doing is checking out and infallible.
- 2,987
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- Thread starter
- #168
- 4,879
- 2,171
You seem afraid of work hard now but you weren't when you downgraded the tier 5s.
If we were to have 1 feat per 10 characters we would need like 50 calcs or even more there is no point in making one CRT with over 50 calcs. Right now we got like 10 calcs let's use them to scale the characters we can scale right now (not all of them but for example those who made the feats and those who directly scale) and over time we can gradually find more calcs to cover everyone, we can discuss who can scale to these right now and after that people who likes their characters will eventually try to scale them and help with finding more feats, that will help solve the problem eventually.
- 12,816
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Not really I just said you guys should've done a rescale thread and had characters at Unknown till then. That's work on its own. Idk why you're framing it so hostile either lol.
Yeah so I'm just saying there should've been a feat collection thread, and as a temp solution they should've been listed Unknown until that sorted and you had a compendium for enough characters. :V
And like, I also gave 3 different solutions too.
- 4,879
- 2,171
Not trying to be hostile I'm trying to reach a reasonable conclusion to this thread. And I'm not trying to be hostile again but you never did that in your 5-B downgrade thread they are still 5-B months over you refuted the calc that made them tier 5 in the first place.
You have 3 possible ways to move but unless for the everyone unknown the other still require feat collection and "scrutiny" they aren't instant solutions to simple do now and solve later. And I don't think the staff made 3 votes to agree on any of the 3 solutions you propose.
- 12,816
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Mostly because workload + there are certain proposals that are underway that affect the outcome of the thread + I am kinda not happy with the selections of the feats we ended up getting (in the numerical sense, I might consider reopening it to get more feats). But you can follow why that's hostile and irrelevant to bring up.
I don't particularly care for dragging this out, I have very little investment as is, so I'm trying to work out a compromise too :v
4, actually.
But in all seriousness the Exhaustion Variability is pretty in line with whatever you're proposing, and it's more logically consistent than your initial notion of Spider-Man and Spider-Man alone holds back his speed., and that was instantaneous, so idk why that's getting shafted.
And I'm not really saying "APPLY MINE NOW, CLOSE THE THREAD", I'm just making the case for the solution I prefer.
Anyways I'll try to check the thread by Monday-Tuesday, maybe. And we'll see if the ten feats have a consistency or not
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- 4,879
- 2,171
I don't remember the forth one. But Ok
I don't think I ever argued for or against Spiderman holding back his speed, I defend that Spiderman being popular leads to a lot of appearances where he "shouldn't be" causing a lot of inconsistencies, overall I think he is a special case and shouldn't hold back others from scaling to their own feats/scaling chain in cases where they are more consistent than Spiderman tier.
Ok, it's fine I don't like the unknown solution I'm trying to discuss a solution which is why I'm bringing up my opinion on what I think it makes more sense so we came up with a solution that can be agreed.
- 940
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No one said spider man’s the only character that holds back his speed, he’s just the only character that Rex mentioned in the OP that has a notable hold back as far as I’m aware
- 177,363
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Well, not canon obviously, but it definitely varies a lot from writer to writer and story to story. However, except for that you seem to make sense here.
- 2,987
- 1,140
- Thread starter
- #176
Bump.
- 2,987
- 1,140
- Thread starter
- #177
Bump.
Also, how're we all feeling about Mach 20 Captain America?
Also, how're we all feeling about Mach 20 Captain America?
- 20,707
- 14,906
What has been accepted for the speed scaling of the others?
- 2,987
- 1,140
- Thread starter
- #179
Nothing, since there’s still debate over combat speed and travel speed.
- 2,987
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- Thread starter
- #180
Gonna make edits to the OP regarding Black Bolt later, stay tuned!
- 2,987
- 1,140
- Thread starter
- #181
Updated the OP.
- 2,987
- 1,140
- Thread starter
- #182
Bump.
- 2,987
- 1,140
- Thread starter
- #183
Bump.
- 1,592
- 568
It's been a long time since I read Moon Knight, but didn't once Reese get in the way of a bullet after it was fired (with Zodiac even complimenting vampires' speed) and Marc can fight vampires in waves ?
- 1,592
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Anyway, in the topic of the street tiers, Eric O'Grady has this feat of pulling Beast out of the way of gunfire (and seemingly did so by reacting to the muzzle fire), might be worth something
- 4,879
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Don't think bullet feats are gonna help since it all ends up in similar level to what they currently have, I mean if it's gunfire Dagger as intercepting a bullet, dodging bullets and slashing bullets mid air, reacting to bullets again overall she has a bunch of those, probably going to be similar level to the current ones.
- 1,592
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Are they being upgraded to Mach 11 or Mach 20 ?
- 4,879
- 2,171
One of them but bullet dodging feats hardly give higher than Mach 10 as it would envolve moving 5 to 10 times faster than the bullet.
- 2,987
- 1,140
- Thread starter
- #189
It depends on which end is deemed most reliable.
- 4,879
- 2,171
Decided to steal some ideas from the past of VSB wiki, I'm sure that maybe they have been debunked but it might bring new ideas.
There is a feat from Ghost Rider it might require some recalc since it's done by Spinossaurus
An Fing Fang Foom calc again might require recalc
Namor jump or whatever again made by Spinossaurus
Red Hulk jump speed
Rogue dodges light
Iceman fly to space
A request to calc a Storm's lightning dodge speed from Doom (Uncanny X-Men (1963) #145)
A request for Storm's lightning speed shot from near the moon to earth (X-Men: Gold (2014) #1)
There is a feat from Ghost Rider it might require some recalc since it's done by Spinossaurus
An Fing Fang Foom calc again might require recalc
Namor jump or whatever again made by Spinossaurus
Red Hulk jump speed
Rogue dodges light
Iceman fly to space
A request to calc a Storm's lightning dodge speed from Doom (Uncanny X-Men (1963) #145)
A request for Storm's lightning speed shot from near the moon to earth (X-Men: Gold (2014) #1)
- 2,987
- 1,140
- Thread starter
- #191
I think the microsecond thing was disputed back in the day, so that would throw out Ghost Rider and Fing Fang Foom's feats. Other stuff seems promising, though.
- 4,879
- 2,171
To be far Ghost Rider's one is still linked in his profile so it doesn't seem to have been fully debunked.
- 2,987
- 1,140
- Thread starter
- #193
Impress told me the profile is outdated, so I wouldn't hold my breathe.
- 2,987
- 1,140
- Thread starter
- #194
Bump.
- 2,987
- 1,140
- Thread starter
- #195
Pootis penser here.
- 4,879
- 2,171
Have you checked if any of the calcs could work.
- 2,987
- 1,140
- Thread starter
- #197
Spino's Namor calc will need to be redone, but these other ones probably are fine, just need evaluations.
- 2,987
- 1,140
- Thread starter
- #198
I've been thinking, Namor's feat may not be the best for scaling since he submerged himself in water to empower himself to perform the feat. At least, it probably should only be used for those who can consistently fight him under the water. It also mentions he doubles in power, that could be useful for an inevitable Namor revision.
- 4,879
- 2,171
It might work some characters could still scale, I think I remember Mar-vell fighting Namor underwater in the same issue he and Namor took the bomb to space which is already a feat in your OP so that could be a very good one.
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Iron man scales to underwater namor, but iron man’s one of the stronger upper mid tiers, nearly all of the justifications for him being upper mid tiers are either him stomping upper mid tiers or holding his own against variable herald tier characters, so I doubt anyone else scales to him
Human torch also scales to underwater namor but human torch is variable so I doubt anyone else scales to him either
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