Bondin' Jimmy (2-A Mario Bonds UES CRT)

[IDK3465]

Why would anyone scale to the pure hearts they amplify the power of love and I believe disappeared at the end of Super Paper Mario

Weird, I just thought they were just made of concentrated love, not amplify it beyond what it normally can do

 

[Lou_change]

Amplify love energy

 

[IDK3465]

Amplify love energy

What does it say in the original Japanese?

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

Why would anyone scale to the pure hearts they amplify the power of love and I believe disappeared at the end of Super Paper Mario

...they didnt? They just aren't used again.

 

[Lou_change]

...they didnt? They just aren't used again.

Could of sworn the narration said they faded back into legend or something am I thinking of a different Paper Mario?
Edit: I was thinking of the book.

 

[Imaginym]

No offense intended Armor, but I personally do not think you even fully understand what a UES actually is, or probably are among the people even against the existence of a UES scaling in the first place. But I digress that, our UES page revision is still being worked on. But anyway, for a qualification on energy system, or later a UES, it doesn't matter if the energy's location is internal (As in inside the user's body) or external (Existing all over the Universe/Multiverse ect). What matter is that it can be a pool of energy, a divine force, or even just digital data, but users of it use it to amplify their physical and supernatural powers interchangeably. As opposed to NPES mainly just being a supernatural magic system consisting of 2 (With physical stats being absent from the energy system) or more elements and a LES being just for one elemental system. I know what might be said, shouldn't we conclude the UES page before moving on or proposing Bonds as a full UES? I sort of agree, but I have written other arguments include ones that deviate from what the OP gathered.

Even if we excluded proposing Bonds as a full UES, it is still 100% a valid physical amplification based on an empathy/concept (Think less about Ki from Dragon Ball, but more how Empathy based empowerments as a whole work. Like Hulk's angrier he gets, the stronger he gets. Colored Lanterns all each have empathy driven power based on an emotion that grows exponentially in unity. Power of Friendship from verses like Fairy Tail or Saint Seiya, and to an extent, Chaos Power from Sonic the Hedgehog series. Or what's actually a perfect comparison would be the Elements of Harmony + Rainbow Power from MLP:FiM series). It still something that justifies a variable tier where characters can use it to essentially amplify themselves indefinitely with no confirmed limit. Even if it jumps from finite tiers to infinite, to cross dimensional, to upper dimensional tiers, Bonds is easily more than capable of it which is more than enough reason to treat bonds as something that grants variable tiers while acknowledging that the full scope of its true power is higher than highest feat ever demonstrated.

The debate on whether or not Bonds is a UES is really only relevant when discussing whether or not Bonds is stabilizing the 2-A sized multiverse or being used to create universes, or whether or not physical stats would at least sort of downscale from potential Environmental Destruction feats. It is still hotly debated to interpret the stabilization thing or even some Low 2-C feats scaling to physicals, but saving future stuff till after those types of revisions are concluded. That being said, there's a lot of agreements on my interpretations on the staff thread, though not everyone. And unlikely if it will be concluded any time soon. However, topics regarding Mario and Luigi using it to amplify themselves to turn tables against Dreamy Bowser being the reason for their victory over him and whether or not Reclusa upscales from Dreamy Bowser because he officially gave Mario and Luigi a tougher fight + Mario and Luigi were more seriously amplified by bonds when they fought Reclusa then they were when they faced Dreamy Bowser are still fair things worth discussing regardless of the outcome of the staff UES thread conclusion. As a result, I am using my own arguments that interlink with some things brought up in the OP, while also excluding the ones the OP brings in repetition offsite and onsite that have either yet to be proven or just seem assumed. I already voiced 2-A stabilization or creation of Low 2-C Dreams from Reclusa being too vague. But Dreamy Bowser had his own 2-B feat via devouring millions of Dreams to empower the Dream Stone, which is what Mario Bros upscale from at their peak bond power, and Reclusa fought what isn't actually peak Mario Bros per say, but just peak so far. Since there technically is no cap or peak for how much stronger Mario Bros get via bonds.

This argument makes sense to me, & having read it, I find myself agreeing with it.
(Quote edited to omit parts regarding @-ing of staff, just in caser.)
Pardon the quote that pings you as well, DDM please.

 

[Armorchompy]

No offense intended Armor, but I personally do not think you even fully understand what a UES actually is, or probably are among the people even against the existence of a UES scaling in the first place.

You think wrong and you are welcome to keep these useless petty little barbs to yourself.

But I digress that, our UES page revision is still being worked on. But anyway, for a qualification on energy system, or later a UES, it doesn't matter if the energy's location is internal (As in inside the user's body) or external (Existing all over the Universe/Multiverse ect).

I don't know why you're saying this given it wasn't part of my argument.

What matter is that it can be a pool of energy, a divine force, or even just digital data, but users of it use it to amplify their physical and supernatural powers interchangeably. As opposed to NPES mainly just being a supernatural magic system consisting of 2 (With physical stats being absent from the energy system) or more elements and a LES being just for one elemental system. I know what might be said, shouldn't we conclude the UES page before moving on or proposing Bonds as a full UES? I sort of agree, but I have written other arguments include ones that deviate from what the OP gathered.

And there is no proof here that it's being used to amp people interchangeably. It can amp people, that in no way shows the amps scale to tier 2.

Even if we excluded proposing Bonds as a full UES, it is still 100% a valid physical amplification based on an empathy/concept (Think less about Ki from Dragon Ball, but more how Empathy based empowerments as a whole work. Like Hulk's angrier he gets, the stronger he gets. Colored Lanterns all each have empathy driven power based on an emotion that grows exponentially in unity. Power of Friendship from verses like Fairy Tail or Saint Seiya, and to an extent, Chaos Power from Sonic the Hedgehog series. Or what's actually a perfect comparison would be the Elements of Harmony + Rainbow Power from MLP:FiM series). It still something that justifies a variable tier where characters can use it to essentially amplify themselves indefinitely with no confirmed limit. Even if it jumps from finite tiers to infinite, to cross dimensional, to upper dimensional tiers, Bonds is easily more than capable of it which is more than enough reason to treat bonds as something that grants variable tiers while acknowledging that the full scope of its true power is higher than highest feat ever demonstrated.

Nothing here actually goes any distance in proving the UES is legitimate. It justifies a variable tier but it does nothing to show the amp is directly 1-to-1 with the ED feats that can be performed with Bonds (or can't rather since the universal feats aren't legitimate, but I digress). Having "no confirmed limit" just means there's no antifeats to it scaling, it doesn't mean it scales. It's a verbatim no limits fallacy.

However, topics regarding Mario and Luigi using it to amplify themselves to turn tables against Dreamy Bowser being the reason for their victory over him and whether or not Reclusa upscales from Dreamy Bowser because he officially gave Mario and Luigi a tougher fight + Mario and Luigi were more seriously amplified by bonds when they fought Reclusa then they were when they faced Dreamy Bowser are still fair things worth discussing regardless of the outcome of the staff UES thread conclusion. As a result, I am using my own arguments that interlink with some things brought up in the OP, while also excluding the ones the OP brings in repetition offsite and onsite that have either yet to be proven or just seem assumed. I already voiced 2-A stabilization or creation of Low 2-C Dreams from Reclusa being too vague. But Dreamy Bowser had his own 2-B feat via devouring millions of Dreams to empower the Dream Stone, which is what Mario Bros upscale from at their peak bond power, and Reclusa fought what isn't actually peak Mario Bros per say, but just peak so far. Since there technically is no cap or peak for how much stronger Mario Bros get via bonds.

The Dreamy Bowser and Zeekeeper things were agreed to be kept to another thread. I don't know why you're even bothering to bring them up when we agreed not to discuss them.

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

(I did puns with the first two threads, I'm not stopping here!)

This is the User Blog that will be utilized.

The intent of this CRT is to properly establish Bonds within the Mario Bros franchise as a Universal Energy System.

This CRT is a summary, the blog explains everything in-depth. If you've already read it, there'll be nothing you need to re-read here.

I'm not familiar with the verse greatly, so I will be asking some questions from time to time

At the end, when you said "use it to an Unlimited Extent", do you mean the character can output infinite amounts of it at once? Or do you mean they can keep using it without exhausting it, but cannot output an infinite amount of it at once? 1 or 2
Outside of that, I agree with UES but neutral on the tiers, as I'm not knowledgeable on in-verse chainscalings.

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

At the end, when you said "use it to an Unlimited Extent", do you mean the character can output infinite amounts of it at once? Or do you mean they can keep using it without exhausting it, but cannot output an infinite amount of it at once?

As long as the relationship (the bond) exists and is still strong, then it can just be used an endless amount of times without it being exhausted.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

And there is no proof here that it's being used to amp people interchangeably. It can amp people, that in no way shows the amps scale to tier 2.

Bonds is both used to interchangeably amplify both physical and magical capabilities, their jump and hammer attacks get stronger, but so do fireball, ice ball and things like Luigi's Lightning bolt magic in Superstar Saga. in other words, both physical and magical attacks interchangeably buff as a result of Bonds. Which is relevant because supposedly Bonds as a force is "Stabilizing the 2-A sized multiverse" would be relevant regarding the system itself. Now there is a difference between a UES criteria and individual users being limited to where casual attacks cannot fully downscale from final/ultimate techniques. This is something Agnaa has the right idea; where he had not disagreements with the existence of UES scaling, but he has stricter standard for creation feats specifically where he believes we should have stricter standard assumption procedures there. He often said we shouldn't assume creation feats were done casually be default, similar to how even under the existence of UES in any given verse, we still try to avoid downscaling casual attacks from final resort attacks that often result in user being completely depleted and/or suicide attacks. And this can even apply if gaps between casual attacks and final/ultimate attacks are infinite in scale given the nature of fiction. But still, the part about Bonds interchangeably buffing fire/ice/lightning magic and physical blows interchangeably is enough to justify criteria for a UES.

Nothing here actually goes any distance in proving the UES is legitimate. It justifies a variable tier but it does nothing to show the amp is directly 1-to-1 with the ED feats that can be performed with Bonds (or can't rather since the universal feats aren't legitimate, but I digress). Having "no confirmed limit" just means there's no antifeats to it scaling, it doesn't mean it scales. It's a verbatim no limits fallacy.

A UES can be used to justify a variable tier as well. Power of Friendship or various things of similar nature has been accepted as a UES in a lot of verses; Fairy Tail, Saint Seiya, MLP:FiM, ect. I'm not focusing on the alleged "Universal creation/corruption" feats or the hypothesized 2-A stabilization. That's something @Galactidot @JPTheGamer and @SuperMarioGamers3 keep bombarding in repetition, which I have asked them to either drop it or save those examples for another thread because UES or not, those are things that have other contentions such as unknown how high effort the latter is, or the former mainly just being domino effects. I am simply talking about bonds being used to amplify combat specific powers and abilities. The "No official cap" is taken far out of context here, I obviously don't mean going all out to Tier 0, or proposing anything beyond the accepted scope of the verse. Just that they have a right to, at their peaks, upscale from the highest feat direct or indirect that they've ever demonstratively scale from. It's no different from Hulk's "Angrier her gets, the stronger he gets," in terms of how much it can buff them compared to anyone in verse.

The Dreamy Bowser and Zeekeeper things were agreed to be kept to another thread. I don't know why you're even bothering to bring them up when we agreed not to discuss them.

Zeekeeper maybe, or other things related to them maybe. I never mentioned agreeing with the characters being irrelevant or at least Zeekeeper's "Oversee of all dreams" thing was something that should be it's own thread. But Dreamy Bowser + Dream Stone still has an accepted casual feat. Not a creation feat, but a destruction feat in the form of cosmic devouring. The 2-B comes from a minimal calculation done by CloverDragon where the Dream Stone instantly consumed millions of dreams from what was a minimal calculation from millions of residents. Which was needed to merely recharge the Dream Stone. The point is that Bonds buff Mario bros to where they can turn tables against characters like Antasma (Who literally eats universes/dreams for breakfast being the very nature of his being) and Dreamy Bowser (Who is merged with Dream Stone was stated to be massively buffed by it who minimum scales from own feat. And officially, Reclusa is the toughest Mario & Luigi series villain (But hard to compare/contrast other subseries) whom Mario Bros needed to be bonded harder than ever to defeat. And even to this day, they still weren't using the upper limit of what Bonds can do, just that everything they done thus far is certainly within their power, and that includes defeating Dreamy Bowser. We're obviously not going to assume Mario Bros use the 2-B ends in every fight or final boss they defeated, so far only post Dream Team within Mario & Luigi has demonstrated going that far. And whether or not smaller examples such as the regular showings of Mario bros turning tables against Power Star/Grand Star users was also agreed to be saved for a different thread.

Amplify love energy

I agreed to drop Pure Hearts and SPM examples because that was initially Mario + Luigi + Bowser + Peach + the Pure Heart (Which is a McGuffin designed to amplify power of bonds further, and actually implied to be even stronger because of that. And has its own 2-A feats scaling, but not relevant to this thread even if technically relevant to Bonds as a concept)

 

[Lou_change]

Was responding to what @IDK3465 posted in the reply just before that one which was a response to my response to him asking if the pure hearts can be used to scale

 

[Poketmonsrs]

Bump

 

[Poketmonsrs]

Bump

 

[SomebodyData]

It looks like we the op has the sufficient amount of staff votes to push this ahead and grace has passed, I'll be closing the thread.