NON TOURNAMENT MATCH: Halibel vs Kamen Rider Glare (3 DAYS Deadline for matches PASSED & Both parties agreed on incon)

[Huesito88]

Let the skillslop commence....

It looks like we can actually go all out here. I'll be back from work but a few things to note for now. Kamen Rider precog right now is insane. Like almost everyone is casually leagues above Doctor strange with time stone. Not to to mention multiple different types of precog that can predict things that are impossible to predict (time erasure, a countless amount of timelines, quantum leaps, etc).

How does Glare not also get High 3-A through ripping things via his lifting strength????

 

[VortechsTG]

Not to to mention multiple different types of precog that can predict things that are impossible to predict (time erasure, a countless amount of timelines, quantum leaps, etc).

Predicting things that are impossible to predict is true for Halibel as well but how do these examples work? Are you saying he is, for example, predicting what happened in the erased time? Or what would happen in each of a countless number of timelines?

In any case, let's get this out of the way. Halibel's deadspots are more or less a sure win, but it takes him a moment to find them. He will need to survive at least a few seconds (relatively speaking) before he can use them. Ordinarily, his death curses would work instantly with any sort of contact, but Glare's forcefield would prevent contact to begin with. Deadspots are likely necessary.

Halibel's "invisibility" isn't invisibility in the strictest sense. He is technically reflecting light but his presence is hidden. He could be standing right in front of you and you wouldn't notice him. And it can even protect him from indiscriminate automatic attacks.

Halibel has two types of clones. First, he can create up to four of himself. These four are exactly equal to him in every way, but they share damage. Second, he can create false clones made of hair, which are physically weaker but still effective against opponents even stronger than he is normally. They aren't significantly weaker. And damaging them will do nothing to the main bodies. He tends to use these clones more often.

I don't really see lifting strength as a possible wincon. Halibel's level of skill is at the point where he breaks the laws of physics and even logic just through skill alone. And the shinobi in particular are extremely slippery and specialize in beating opponents who can one-shot them just by never being hit. Eugard in particular can incinerate an opponent's soul just by touching a single hair on their body with the Yang sword or its flames and explosions. He is also impossibly skilled, physically superior to Halibel, and almost impossible to kill and still lost. Halibel can freely move in three dimensions without regard for whether he's traveling through the ground or through the air, and he will use his false clones to boost himself. Even supposing he were still put in a bad spot, he would simply teleport away with substitution jutsu.

That being said, Glare's mind hacking seems to be a very potent win-con for him. If it is in character for him to use it very quickly in a battle, I am willing to vote for him.

 

[MasterOwOgay]

Let the skillslop commence....

It looks like we can actually go all out here. I'll be back from work but a few things to note for now. Kamen Rider precog right now is insane. Like almost everyone is casually leagues above Doctor strange with time stone. Not to to mention multiple different types of precog that can predict things that are impossible to predict (time erasure, a countless amount of timelines, quantum leaps, etc).

This stuff is not on his profile, I dont think it can be used in good faith if it isnt even indexed properly.

 

[BERRIES555]

It’s scattered across multiple profiles. Basically, Glare = Geats > ReVice = Saber and Zero Two. The last two in particular are the ones where the major precog feats for KR comes from.

That being said…..Slash, Ixa you’re on your own here . Finals week has been kicking me while I’m down and I need to prioritize shit. Good luck yo.

They didn’t censor shit!?!?

 

[Shadowslash125]

The one shot i mentioned isnt with his AP gap, he has an ability deadspot, which finds the weakness of anything, power or person, and lets him hit that spot to instantly one shot or powernull it. This is backed by his bs intuition which is now indexed as fate manipulation

Isn't deadspot just powernull, based on the profile? Closest thing is him negating high-mid regen, which this guy doesn't have. Mixed up with the death curse thing, I guess. Also even then, the most he can powernull are his energy attacks and his forcefields (to which he'd immediately figure out something's wrong if he powernulls the active forcefield). Besides, has Halibal actually been shown to powernull tech at all?

i need more information on this, what does "dimensional scale" mean here

TLDR: Basically he's able to observe and analyse the entirety of a dimension (in this case, 3-D due to this being in 3-D, and 4-D due to it being his original dimension) without fail within this 30 km down to the most minute detail. Unless Halibel is like removing himself from the 3-D/4-D plane in his stealth and shit, he's going to get immediately tracked, layers be damned.

The clones are not just illusions but also real and he will swap his body with the clones if he needs it.

I was referring to the actual optical illusions he has, and I think I actually commented on his clones somewhere in my initial response.

It is stated that they are equal to his body, it has never been stated that they are different in any capacity. This is not to mention that ReZero characters have intuition stuff which would have allowed them to directly gain the knowledge of any differences between them and even choose the right one, this doesn't happen which means there is none to be found.

Halibel has two types of clones. First, he can create up to four of himself. These four are exactly equal to him in every way, but they share damage. Second, he can create false clones made of hair, which are physically weaker but still effective against opponents even stronger than he is normally. They aren't significantly weaker. And damaging them will do nothing to the main bodies. He tends to use these clones more often.

On par means whatever substances are in the clones are at the same level as our meat and bones and whatever, but it isn't one-to-one meat and bones. A kilogram of steel is on par with a kilogram of feathers because they achieve the same purpose: be a kilogram heavy. However, they're different things entirely. A chicken of the woods is on par with chicken because it tastes like chicken, but the former is a vegetarian substitute. There's still that inherent difference that allows Glare to inspect and differentiate the actual Halibel from the fakes. Although he can just shoot whichever anyway, it's all the same.

The skill gap is too big, Halibel would be able to perfectly predict all of his movements and then land a one shot with dead spot after powernulling the barriers

Halibel is a little too skilled here, even if they went on full cqc, the likelihood of Halibel landing a deadspot before he can grab him is insanely high

We've got to the skillslop, ladies and gentlemen. Buckle up; it's going to be a ride, is what I'd say, but I also gotta respond to Voltech's post too so that's for the other post.

In any case, let's get this out of the way. Halibel's deadspots are more or less a sure win, but it takes him a moment to find them. He will need to survive at least a few seconds (relatively speaking) before he can use them. Ordinarily, his death curses would work instantly with any sort of contact, but Glare's forcefield would prevent contact to begin with. Deadspots are likely necessary.

Although, assuming he's even able to nullify tech, what's basically stopping Glare from popping open another forcefield, especially his active ones? For them to be at least gone for the remainder of the match (the passive one at least), you actually have to break it, not turn it off.

Halibel's "invisibility" isn't invisibility in the strictest sense. He is technically reflecting light but his presence is hidden. He could be standing right in front of you and you wouldn't notice him. And it can even protect him from indiscriminate automatic attacks.

Wouldn't really matter when he's going to be tagged by both the Glare Antenna and Dimension Signal frame one, and reflecting light isn't going to be good enough to throw him off seeing his entire body is still physically bound to the third dimension. Also doesn't help Glare can already perceive normally unperceivable events like fluctuations in space-time.

I don't really see lifting strength as a possible wincon. Halibel's level of skill is at the point where he breaks the laws of physics and even logic just through skill alone. And the shinobi in particular are extremely slippery and specialize in beating opponents who can one-shot them just by never being hit. Eugard in particular can incinerate an opponent's soul just by touching a single hair on their body with the Yang sword or its flames and explosions. He is also impossibly skilled, physically superior to Halibel, and almost impossible to kill and still lost. Halibel can freely move in three dimensions without regard for whether he's traveling through the ground or through the air, and he will use his false clones to boost himself. Even supposing he were still put in a bad spot, he would simply teleport away with substitution jutsu.

I'll save this for skill (which I'm writing immediately after this)

That being said, Glare's mind hacking seems to be a very potent win-con for him. If it is in character for him to use it very quickly in a battle, I am willing to vote for him.

He's known to put it very early on, especially against those he thinks would be very bothersome to deal with. He also straight up kills too instead, but it most depends on his mood and what he can bring to the fight.
Before I get hounded for this, the caveat here is that he has to put one of his balls on the opponent's heads first (or grab him and use the driver) before the mind control happens.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I have been waiting for quite a bit for the skillslop to drop since that is what will decide this matchup anyway, but i will reply to the other stuff in the meanwhile

Isn't deadspot just powernull, based on the profile? Closest thing is him negating high-mid regen, which this guy doesn't have. Mixed up with the death curse thing, I guess. Also even then, the most he can powernull are his energy attacks and his forcefields (to which he'd immediately figure out something's wrong if he powernulls the active forcefield). Besides, has Halibal actually been shown to powernull tech at all?

Intuition stuff will work against tech too, the strategem was also a tech based thing afterall. Deadspot can also be used to find weak spots on people that would instantly one shot them, which is how he kept on killing Eugard. This is without his killing curses, or other techniques

Btw, does KRG have a way to do anything about paralysis inducement via shadow manip like a certain nara does in naruto?

TLDR: Basically he's able to observe and analyse the entirety of a dimension (in this case, 3-D due to this being in 3-D, and 4-D due to it being his original dimension) without fail within this 30 km down to the most minute detail. Unless Halibel is like removing himself from the 3-D/4-D plane in his stealth and shit, he's going to get immediately tracked, layers be damned.

Halibel being put up against his worst possible matchup is so him (Eugard was also a counter to him and he had to hold back against him on top of that)

I was referring to the actual optical illusions he has, and I think I actually commented on his clones somewhere in my initial response.



On par means whatever substances are in the clones are at the same level as our meat and bones and whatever, but it isn't one-to-one meat and bones. A kilogram of steel is on par with a kilogram of feathers because they achieve the same purpose: be a kilogram heavy. However, they're different things entirely. A chicken of the woods is on par with chicken because it tastes like chicken, but the former is a vegetarian substitute. There's still that inherent difference that allows Glare to inspect and differentiate the actual Halibel from the fakes. Although he can just shoot whichever anyway, it's all the same.

This is false equivalency; these are not clones that are made up of a drastically different density, heck Eugard would be able to sense if they were lighter or heavier based on that, more importantly can you prove that the esp KRG has, can discern between the real or a physical clone or not? Visual clues are not gonna be the answer here.

Funnily enough, even if he does know which one is the real one, he did still have to fight against 4 Halibels and he would just be able to go all out by sacrificing and respawning them constantly

We've got to the skillslop, ladies and gentlemen. Buckle up; it's going to be a ride, is what I'd say, but I also gotta respond to Voltech's post too so that's for the other post.


Although, assuming he's even able to nullify tech, what's basically stopping Glare from popping open another forcefield, especially his active ones? For them to be at least gone for the remainder of the match (the passive one at least), you actually have to break it, not turn it off.

they did be broken if halibel deadspots them, you dont see undead zombies coming back to life after he kills them off afterall.

Wouldn't really matter when he's going to be tagged by both the Glare Antenna and Dimension Signal frame one, and reflecting light isn't going to be good enough to throw him off seeing his entire body is still physically bound to the third dimension. Also doesn't help Glare can already perceive normally unperceivable events like fluctuations in space-time.

I should add here, ReZero characters can react to stuff without being able to sense them at all. Halibel was still able to sneak up on them, this means that even if you can perceive "normally unpercievable events", it did still be a stretch to say you could know where halibel is

I'll save this for skill (which I'm writing immediately after this)

its been an hour twin

 

[VortechsTG]

Isn't deadspot just powernull, based on the profile? Closest thing is him negating high-mid regen, which this guy doesn't have. Mixed up with the death curse thing, I guess. Also even then, the most he can powernull are his energy attacks and his forcefields (to which he'd immediately figure out something's wrong if he powernulls the active forcefield). Besides, has Halibal actually been shown to powernull tech at all?

It's powernull that is based on death hax that can kill anything. If it exists/can exist within Re:Zero it can be nullified. Tech would be included.

TLDR: Basically he's able to observe and analyse the entirety of a dimension (in this case, 3-D due to this being in 3-D, and 4-D due to it being his original dimension) without fail within this 30 km down to the most minute detail. Unless Halibel is like removing himself from the 3-D/4-D plane in his stealth and shit, he's going to get immediately tracked, layers be damned.

A regular human should technically be able to sense him. They simply don't. His presence itself is hidden. There's zero reason whatsoever that being able to detect every minute detail would make any difference.

I was referring to the actual optical illusions he has, and I think I actually commented on his clones somewhere in my initial response.

The "illusions" in question are the secondary clones.

On par means whatever substances are in the clones are at the same level as our meat and bones and whatever, but it isn't one-to-one meat and bones. A kilogram of steel is on par with a kilogram of feathers because they achieve the same purpose: be a kilogram heavy. However, they're different things entirely. A chicken of the woods is on par with chicken because it tastes like chicken, but the former is a vegetarian substitute. There's still that inherent difference that allows Glare to inspect and differentiate the actual Halibel from the fakes. Although he can just shoot whichever anyway, it's all the same.

There isn't a fake amongst the main clones. They are all the real Halibel and are all exactly the same in every way.

Although, assuming he's even able to nullify tech, what's basically stopping Glare from popping open another forcefield, especially his active ones? For them to be at least gone for the remainder of the match (the passive one at least), you actually have to break it, not turn it off.

Probably the fact that he would be dead would prevent him from re-opening his force field. It is death hax.

Wouldn't really matter when he's going to be tagged by both the Glare Antenna and Dimension Signal frame one, and reflecting light isn't going to be good enough to throw him off seeing his entire body is still physically bound to the third dimension. Also doesn't help Glare can already perceive normally unperceivable events like fluctuations in space-time.

... I only mean reflecting light in the same way everyone reflects light. He is visible. His presence is just hidden. He cannot be noticed.

Before I get hounded for this, the caveat here is that he has to put one of his balls on the opponent's heads first (or grab him and use the driver) before the mind control happens.

Okay, so it's not that big of a deal then. One of the scans on his profile makes it seem like it doesn't require any contact. If it does then he's in nearly the same situation as Halibel with his one-shot and the fight will come down to other factors.

 

[DemonicDude]

Thank you Shock Rock for being such a great tier setter to the point we are having a legit match

 

[Kachon123]

I genuinely don't think any of these guys would lose to Shock Rock but whatever

 

[DemonicDude]

I genuinely don't think any of these guys would lose to Shock Rock but whatever

They're all liars!
imagine lying to get into a tournament
Sonic was right

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

TK is effective against Halibel due to the LS difference but i dont know why KRG is here...

 

[DemonicDude]

i dont know why KRG is here...

thought glare was your fav character

 

[Shadowslash125]

Halibel is a little too skilled here, even if they went on full cqc, the likelihood of Halibel landing a deadspot before he can grab him is insanely high

Now here's the actual skillslop.
I'm throwing this out first and saying that Glare is much more skilled than meets the eye.

It is also worth mentioning that KRG is inferior to Theresia who has been explicitly stated to be an eternity of training above everybody else. Halibel is superior to her which is also why i think there is no way for KRG to even touch Halibel due to their insane skill gap.

Experience is fun and all, but it isn't really the "be all, end all" kinda deal. A person can have a gazillion years worth of experience, but can still unconventionally lose to another guy seeming less experienced than him. Not that it's invalid, mind you, but there should be some sort of actual feat backing up said experience.
To put it into example, this guy's the strongest swordsman on Earth at the time. Yet, even with this much experience, he loses out to this guy even though the latter's just a rookie and their actual swordsmanship skills are worlds apart. How is this possible? Saber uses his intelligence combined with his versatility to capitalize on the many powers and abilities he gains, letting him rival the best of the best swordsmen even when his actual swordsmanship is inferior to the rest. Keep in mind that all Calibur users can receive countless visions and timelines of the future. Even though this Calibur doesn't spam it as much in combat, this is very important since it will come back to this post.

Firstly, KRG doesnt even have analytical prediction whereas even an untrained child version of Emilia could dodge perception blitzing danmaku by reading her opponents intent. The gap between Ram and a trained adult Emilia was so huge that despite a massive strength and speed gap, she could easily knock her down without letting a single attack land on her.

However, every Geats Riders and their mothers have the resistance against AnPR by being able to go toe-to-toe with Magnum users who have AnPr and homing bullets. And this isn't even bringing up the funni Saber & 01 scaling:

• Remember Calibur? The second Calibur spams precog that allows him to precog entire timelines of the future right from the present, and he's able to keep spamming it to see just about every move the Saber Riders would make so that he can easily counter them. This also doesn't counteract the fact he's already a very good swordsman in his own right, since he can also fight against that first Calibur relatively well. However, Saber's the star of the show, so he's dispatched off despite having such high level precog.
• Kamen Rider Durendal is able to erase time (similar to King Crimson) and defeat about every single Kamen Rider he has faced in his few debut episodes. This is a problem the seasoned fighters struggle to go up against him. While Saber did end up being able to see Durendal in his erased time mode to aid him in AnPring his attacks much more easily, characters like Blades, who doesn't have such luxury, is able to tag him with just pure skill alone.
• Remember when 01 was the poster child for bullshit precog with quadrillions of battle scenarios being precogged within a mere second or something along the lines? The weakest precog in 01 was potent enough to counter TP spam and speedblitz simultaneously. There's also the fact that said precog is also able to accurately precog the fact that the current timeline is going to be erased into another timeline, and then that other timeline becoming the original timeline again, all in the span of one sitting. Post-Series 01 Riders are no joke, and yet one Saber Rider is able to clash swords against one of these post-series Riders without much issue.

Geats Riders are high in the scaling because Geats casually defeated Kamen Rider Revi in their skirmish, who can fight alongside both Saber and Zero One equally. This is the same Geats that Glare is able to stalemate while also having two other Riders who can catch up with Ace to deal with alongside Geats.

Ram has also been able to dodge invisible bombs going off in a corridor, with no space to dodge. Elsa, someone who is less skilled than arc 4 Garfiel who got absolutely skillstomped by a base Ram, was able to dodge a room blowing up without exiting said room.

Here is Geats dodging an explosion even though he was caught right inside it!

This is also mentioned in the Elsa section but, any attacks he sees once wont ever work on him again.

Zoous, one of the general Megids, is also able to do the same. In fact, the moment he sees a technique, he's able to counter it even in that same fight. However, he also got defeated by the Saber Riders, who Glare is around or marginally above. So this is funny.

Oh, and ranged attacks just wont work at all because halibel can dodge rain, rain of light and mists of light which is physically impossible to do, this isnt even through his phasing since cecilus can do it too and he doesn't have phasing

Everyone can dodge rain. Hell I can too! It's called an umbrella.
Jokes aside, if a Rider can fight evenly against people who speedblitz him, has high level precog and can fight against bullshit time erasure, Halibel has his work cut out for him since he's genuinely gonna struggle. Remember, Geats dodged an actual explosion while he was inside one, and also this is what he can do with two bullets and a gun. This feat was done without Magnum's AnPr abilities btw.

Also dodging omnidirectional ranged attacks is average in the day and life of a Kamen Rider.

I saw some new responses, and will get to them in a bit.

 

[Shadowslash125]

For the infinite LS conundrum, he can't really use it if he got no shit to grab, no?
EDIT: If need be an explanation why Shock Rock can beat Glare via tiersetter rules, I can do so.

 

[DemonicDude]

EDIT: If need be an explanation why Shock Rock can beat Glare via tiersetter rules, I can do so.

yeah do so it will clear out some issues i guess for now

 

[Shadowslash125]

yeah do so it will clear out some issues i guess for now

So first thing's first. Shock Rock's regen is high, which is higher than what the geats Riders can negate (mid-high). There's the case of whether the spark RE can upgrade this to SR's level, but at the moment of this time it is nlf. So there's one big point going for big old Shock Rocky here. And it also helps that most of Glare's attacks have energy in them, so he's gonna be able to eat those without any trouble lol. Also terribly outranged by Shock Rock here.

Having Infinite LS can only do you so much, and most applications require him to actually grab the enemy at hand. Also if I remember correctly, Vilgax who has comparable strength to Shock Rock couldn't break out of the energy cage. Glare would be no different here (spark equalises, not makes them upgrade from his ap yet). There's also the argument that he can teleport to and from the DGP to escape and return, but by then, he probably ***** off from the fight entirely since he cares about being a game master in the dgp. Mostly his avatar just dies and his true self returns to his 4-D world thanks to no oxygen lol.

And if the battle takes place/ or escalates in space, Geats Riders are currently unsuited for space combat, and would fail miserably there, unlike Shock Rock here.

I can't really defend skillslop here (nor would a good chunk of the bracket here lol) but how Shock Rock fights is similar enough to Glare that the former can just spam forcefields and shit. Though I am surprised at the fact that we have a guy who has one layer into steathing and becoming invisible with powernull and death hax, along with some other guy who can practically remove himself from existence to stealth, and iirc another bloke with a time machine that can't be restricted due to not having a tier jump or it being optional equipment, and infinite LS is where the problem's at?

Damn. (I'll get to refuting the rezero args in a bit btw)

 

[DemonicDude]

i'm voting glare for now

 

[Shadowslash125]

So I guess I'm not cooked then. I'll continue responding to the other args then.

 

[TsukasayaEmmaDCD]

Voting for Glares removal because slash is a geats fan /j

Glare fra

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

wait for the response dawg, we all waited for krg to drop his args too

Now here's the actual skillslop.
I'm throwing this out first and saying that Glare is much more skilled than meets the eye.


Experience is fun and all, but it isn't really the "be all, end all" kinda deal. A person can have a gazillion years worth of experience, but can still unconventionally lose to another guy seeming less experienced than him. Not that it's invalid, mind you, but there should be some sort of actual feat backing up said experience.
To put it into example, this guy's the strongest swordsman on Earth at the time. Yet, even with this much experience, he loses out to this guy even though the latter's just a rookie and their actual swordsmanship skills are worlds apart. How is this possible? Saber uses his intelligence combined with his versatility to capitalize on the many powers and abilities he gains, letting him rival the best of the best swordsmen even when his actual swordsmanship is inferior to the rest. Keep in mind that all Calibur users can receive countless visions and timelines of the future. Even though this Calibur doesn't spam it as much in combat, this is very important since it will come back to this post.

that statement is the starting point to give you an idea of how big of a gap between the normal characters and the sword saint+ tier characters like halibel have. I literally added the Elsa stuff to back that up as you pointed out. An eternity of training and they would still get skillstomped.

However, every Geats Riders and their mothers have the resistance against AnPR by being able to go toe-to-toe with Magnum users who have AnPr and homing bullets. And this isn't even bringing up the funni Saber & 01 scaling:

• Remember Calibur? The second Calibur spams precog that allows him to precog entire timelines of the future right from the present, and he's able to keep spamming it to see just about every move the Saber Riders would make so that he can easily counter them. This also doesn't counteract the fact he's already a very good swordsman in his own right, since he can also fight against that first Calibur relatively well. However, Saber's the star of the show, so he's dispatched off despite having such high level precog.

I would need some scans, there are none for this on his profile. I will give you something better though, Old Wilhelm who is below SS Theresia could perfectly predict how his fight would go against Yae, despite her setting up traps beforehand and wilhelm being a swordsman having no idea of the shinobi tactics. Despite this, he perfectly predicted that he would reap the shinobi's life in 4 moves.

Precognition (Kurayami gives the user visions of possible futures. He foresaw multiple fights and outcomes of each fight. When he gave up Kurayami, he still saw visions but not to the extent that it ruins his life),

And again, these seem inferior to just the basic anpr Emilia has where she can dodge perception blitzing attacks by just reading her opponents intent.

• Kamen Rider Durendal is able to erase time (similar to King Crimson) and defeat about every single Kamen Rider he has faced in his few debut episodes. This is a problem the seasoned fighters struggle to go up against him. While Saber did end up being able to see Durendal in his erased time mode to aid him in AnPring his attacks much more easily, characters like Blades, who doesn't have such luxury, is able to tag him with just pure skill alone.

gang...the wank is insane

Firstly, if saber could see Durendai and then managed to block him then that isnt anpr, we see how he clearly sees him go back. If this is what you think anpr is then i am sorry but even i body saber in terms of anpr because predicting tennis balls is genuinely harder than this.

on the other hand, it is clear that he ALWAYS just goes behind his enemies, if you have even the slightest bit of reaction speed/sensory ability you did be able to deal with this especially since he starts his attack AFTER time erasure is over. Heck, i did argue that the leaper technique used by ley which was predicted by Ram is superior because of how unpredictable Ley is along with the constant switching of techniques he did, using stuff like layered invisible air blades that could slice through the both of them, teleporting randomly in all 3 dimensions around her (not just behind her), powernulling her attacks and genuinely just being a menace.

This is all below Theresia, mind you, she did be able to instantly counter all of this.

• Remember when 01 was the poster child for bullshit precog with quadrillions of battle scenarios being precogged within a mere second or something along the lines? The weakest precog in 01 was potent enough to counter TP spam and speedblitz simultaneously. There's also the fact that said precog is also able to accurately precog the fact that the current timeline is going to be erased into another timeline, and then that other timeline becoming the original timeline again, all in the span of one sitting. Post-Series 01 Riders are no joke, and yet one Saber Rider is able to clash swords against one of these post-series Riders without much issue.

Geats Riders are high in the scaling because Geats casually defeated Kamen Rider Revi in their skirmish, who can fight alongside both Saber and Zero One equally. This is the same Geats that Glare is able to stalemate while also having two other Riders who can catch up with Ace to deal with alongside Geats.

no scans, plus this isnt on the profile. I can't just take your word for it.

Here is Geats dodging an explosion even though he was caught right inside it!

this isnt explicit enough to say that he "Dodged" the explosions while being inside of it. This could just be him tanking it or the explosion missing him entirely, as we see in the clip the explosions happened around him not on him.

compare this to Elsa, who dodged a room blowing up, without exiting it. this is much more concrete, than that clip since it is clear that the explosions somehow did not manage to hit her regardless of the fact that the entire room blew up, leaving no physical space to dodge it.

Zoous, one of the general Megids, is also able to do the same. In fact, the moment he sees a technique, he's able to counter it even in that same fight. However, he also got defeated by the Saber Riders, who Glare is around or marginally above. So this is funny.

Elsa is an eternity below Theresia who is inferior to Halibel, so even if you want to compare that he did be inferior to halibel but this isnt needed either because Elsa is superior in this too. Any attacks she sees once wont work on her twice, even if its a danmaku afterwards. The quantity becomes irrelevant.

Every technique she sees even once in battle doesn't work a second time against her, as she foresees it coming and promptly avoids and punishes the repetition. Even if a countless number of attacks are used, so long as she's seen it once before every last one will fail to reach Elsa

Everyone can dodge rain. Hell I can too! It's called an umbrella.
Jokes aside, if a Rider can fight evenly against people who speedblitz him, has high level precog and can fight against bullshit time erasure, Halibel will still have no problem easily dogwalking him

you are completely right and i agree with you

Remember, Geats dodged an actual explosion while he was inside one, and also this is what he can do with two bullets and a gun. This feat was done without Magnum's AnPr abilities btw.

Actually a pretty cool feat, In comparison to that, Elsa can hit the vitals of her opponents despite having her mind and senses completely cut off from her body.

Also dodging omnidirectional ranged attacks is average in the day and life of a Kamen Rider.

I saw some new responses, and will get to them in a bit.

The difference between omnidirectional ranged attacks and dodging rain, rain of light, and mists of light is that the former is physically possible while there is NO physical space to dodge rain. Despite this, they are able to do so via skill alone. dodging omnidirectional ranged perception blitzing attack was something extremely basic afterall.

Also, none of this matters if he cant do something about this

He is vastly superior to Garfiel, who fights on a level where every action is immediate, with no delay between decision making and action, with the slightest delay being exploited by the opponent

Even if he predicts everything Halibel does, Halibel could just exploit the momentary gap and one shot him.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Adding on to the anpr stuff, the intuition stuff is superior because it is fate manipulation. Yeah, you can calculate the future by some number of moves but it is completely useless against someone who knows what you will be able to do regardless of the number of moves you see ahead. This is then coupled with Halibel's actual physical calculation too.

Fate Manipulation & Blessed (Several individuals, through their intuition, consistently select the "correct answer" in various situations as they are loved by fate itself. Fate is a law of the world> used by the Observers, supernatural existences that are beyond the framework, to manipulate every event at will. To the Observers, the world is nothing more than a puppet show of fixed events and predestined fate.

 

[MasterOwOgay]

voting for halibel fra

 

[Friedoil11]

voting for halibel fra

Honestly, I'm doing it too. Voting Halibel FRA

 

[IxaSaga]

hold up let me cook

 

[Friedoil11]

hold up let me cook

Ok, I'll let you cook Mister White.

 

[DemonicDude]

I can't just take your word for it.

oh come on... you guys were doing sleepovers but can't take each other's words

Adding on to the anpr stuff, the intuition stuff is superior because it is fate manipulation. Yeah, you can calculate the future by some number of moves but it is completely useless against someone who knows what you will be able to do regardless of the number of moves you see ahead. This is then coupled with Halibel's actual physical calculation too.

There's not a single person on this thread who has made counter to this. So I'd say satella is in decent position

 

[Shadowslash125]

Shadow

I haven't voted yet btw.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Adding on to the anpr stuff, the intuition stuff is superior because it is fate manipulation. Yeah, you can calculate the future by some number of moves but it is completely useless against someone who knows what you will be able to do regardless of the number of moves you see ahead. This is then coupled with Halibel's actual physical calculation too.

Quick response since my schedule's compromised. If it's that potent, what's stopping Halibel from not getting TKed, thanks to the fact that fate will just have him dodge the tk or some other bullshit? Especially when he's going to stealth and layered invisibility frame one?

I can bring up the funni shit to counter this, but this fate & bless combo is either

• Won't be enough to win against Shock Rock, and thereby lose to Glare
• Or too potent for this tiersetter and shouldn't be here in the first place.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Quick response since my schedule's compromised. If it's that potent, what's stopping Halibel from not getting TKed, thanks to the fact that fate will just have him dodge the tk or some other bullshit? Especially when he's going to stealth and layered invisibility frame one?

I can bring up the funni shit to counter this, but this fate & bless combo is either

• Won't be enough to win against Shock Rock, and thereby lose to Glare
• Or too potent for this tiersetter and shouldn't be here in the first place.

you can resist tk, you can't dodge it. Shock rock can just camp outerspace too and get out of Halibel's range, Halibel wouldnt stay invisible forever either and its over for him as soon as he comes out. Either way, shock rock wins against halibel due to their compatibility

 

[IxaSaga]

I would need some scans, there are none for this on his profile. I will give you something better though, Old Wilhelm who is below SS Theresia could perfectly predict how his fight would go against Yae, despite her setting up traps beforehand and wilhelm being a swordsman having no idea of the shinobi tactics. Despite this, he perfectly predicted that he would reap the shinobi's life in 4 moves.


And again, these seem inferior to just the basic anpr Emilia has where she can dodge perception blitzing attacks by just reading her opponents intent.

gang...the wank is insane

Firstly, if saber could see Durendai and then managed to block him then that isnt anpr, we see how he clearly sees him go back. If this is what you think anpr is then i am sorry but even i body saber in terms of anpr because predicting tennis balls is genuinely harder than this.

on the other hand, it is clear that he ALWAYS just goes behind his enemies, if you have even the slightest bit of reaction speed/sensory ability you did be able to deal with this especially since he starts his attack AFTER time erasure is over. Heck, i did argue that the leaper technique used by ley which was predicted by Ram is superior because of how unpredictable Ley is along with the constant switching of techniques he did, using stuff like layered invisible air blades that could slice through the both of them, teleporting randomly in all 3 dimensions around her (not just behind her), powernulling her attacks and genuinely just being a menace.

This is all below Theresia, mind you, she did be able to instantly counter all of this.

Let me clear this part up. Durendal's time manipulation doesn't just "go behind". It deletes time within a space so that characters skip forwards in time. Confused for being a teleport, it makes it, so the person has no idea where Durendal, themselves and anyone within the space ends ups at. So, it ***** with the positioning of multiple characters and is unpredictable because you can't predict an erased time. Also, the way Durendal uses it is that he spams and does it mid enemy attack, so he is quite a scumbag. TLDR: Its like when you skip ahead in a youtube video and now you are wonder wtf is going on.

For Calibur, he spammed a countless number of future visions to the point where can knows exactly what Saber says to him in every scenario. These future visions span to the end of the world. A big part of Kamen Rider is to be able to change the future. There are a lot of cases where it shows that the future changes. Calibur is able to see the future, but it changes because something happens.

If that's not convincing, Saber riders are shown to scale to 01 riders. 01 riders upscale a very long chain of precognition with one of the best being KR 02

• Zero-Two Arithmetic (ゼロツーアリスマテック, Zerotsū Arisumatekku): Zero-Two's faceplate processor. During the battle, the artificial intelligence There extracts the thoughts of the matching person and learns the enemy and surrounding information to predict the behavior. The optimal solution is found in about 0.01 seconds from the 2 trillion patterns of attack and evasion patterns derived from it, and it is reported to the matching person. This ultra-fast learning allows the user to take advantage of the battle.

Kamen Rider Z2's components (There) also predicted entire alternate timelines where itself doesn't exist so there's that.

But even better than those, is Kamen Rider 03. They fought Kamen Rider Zein, who was using Hyper Clock Up (This is the best video i can find on it copyright lol). So he uses Kamen Rider Kabuto's card which makes him go Hyper Clock Up. Basically, their precognition can hit targets going at immeasurable speed.

• In addition to high-speed movement, the Hyper Clock-Up can also transcend time, allowing the rider to travel back and forth to the past and future. When Kamen Rider GATACK = Arata Kagami lost his life due to an attack by Camaras Worm, he was able to save him by going back in time and defeating Camaras Worm to alter the future.

and better than that, is KR Regad Omega who can see the past and future of any event. Whom the Geats riders also defeated.

• Lops Precog Vision (ロプスプレコグヴィジョン, Ropusu Purekog Vijon): The visual device. High-dimensional images processed in real time from cameras on various parts of the body are displayed on an internal hemispherical monitor to provide a seamless view of the real and virtual worlds. It can see up to 100 angles simultaneously using the camera of Each terminal, and can also see into the past and future of any event.

and better than that, the Saber riders in the endgame was able to fight and go toe to toe with an omniscient being. Who also scales as "close as possible" to the Almighty Book.

• Grimoire Visor (グリモワールバイザー, Gurimowāru Baizā): The full visor mask. By directly acting as a visor in the table of contents of the omnipotent and omnipotent book, it is possible to reflect the truth of the world and capture it as visual information. In addition, all information can be browsed at any time.
• Storious Cuirass (ストリウスキュイラス, Sutoriusu Kyuirasu): The chest and shoulder armor. It plays the role of a construction circuit that spins the power of the Wonder Ride Book and Alter Ride Book contained in the Grimoire Wonder Ride Book, and can cause a powerful phenomenon through the armor. It is also possible to combine different folklore powers in a complex way to bring about a wide range of immeasurable events.
• All of creation within Saber is said to have been generated by a single artifact, referred to here as the「Almighty Book」. This book contains the sum total of all knowledge and concepts, with human history and its accumulated knowledge constituting only a small fraction of its contents.

Edit: omg bruh all my links were deleted bc discord is banned

 

[IxaSaga]

Durendal's Time Erasure (the end when he takes the hostage) and Hyper Clock Up shown being "instant" as well.

 

[DemonicDude]

I think both shadow and satella are right about their character passing 51 percent ratio of Shock Rock 3rd form. Dura negging extremely quickly and hard is the only option

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Let me clear this part up. Durendal's time manipulation doesn't just "go behind". It deletes time within a space so that characters skip forwards in time. Confused for being a teleport, it makes it, so the person has no idea where Durendal, themselves and anyone within the space ends ups at. So, it ***** with the positioning of multiple characters and is unpredictable because you can't predict an erased time. Also, the way Durendal uses it is that he spams and does it mid enemy attack, so he is quite a scumbag. TLDR: Its like when you skip ahead in a youtube video and now you are wonder wtf is going on.

This does get into arc 9 spoilers, so i am marking it just in case.

Compression, the authority of tristia, also allows for the the compression of space-time to occur. It is in practice the same as time erasure, the people are just fast forwarded however, The Aldebusters were able to keep up their fight despite this, Roy was also able to counter the compression via reading the eyes of the authority user

From Roy’s field of vision, the forms of Ram and the pigman, and Meili astraddle atop the Hungry Horse King disappeared. ――And concurrent to their disappearance, they appeared as though surrounding Roy from three directions and waged their offensive.

The timing of which, he could quite clearly grasp due to the glow in Petra’s eyes.

Roy: [Yes yes, excuse us for a bit-.]


On the brink of their offensive making contact, Roy joined his hands before his chest. ――When, in that instant, the ground rose as though sand dunes were swelling from force applied from left and right, cutting off Ram and the pigman’s line of sight from Roy. Entrusting the two to that, Roy focused his concentration on the utmost loud and annoying crying voice of an infant.

-Arc 9, chapter 45, "True Name"

In the next scene, we see Ram easily able to fight despite the time skip she would have had to deal with.

At Roy’s rear, the pigman smashed through the ground wall barrier, and from overhead Ram dropped, disappearing and appearing yet again. Front, rear, and above, enclosed from three dimensions, Roy distorted the space between the length of both of his legs, invoking the magical technique of the Magia Manus Magister, Yardray, who had been submerged in the shadows of history and finally eaten―― spears of flame, ice, and earth were brought forth by magic, and immediately locked on to their targets.

Their aims were Meili, the pigman, and Ram―― but, she was not there.

Ram: [To lose sight of Ram again and again. Why don’t you just throw those away? That set of eyes.]

――There she was. At a distance close enough for a hug, Ram’s slender frame came into sight.

-Arc 9, chapter 45, "True Name"

This isnt even just Ram, its also Gaston, Pigman, Flam and Grassis too. They are skilled too but if i had to rank them they wouldnt even make it to the mid tier of skills. Halibel would have no problem dealing with this.

For Calibur, he spammed a countless number of future visions to the point where can knows exactly what Saber says to him in every scenario. These future visions span to the end of the world. A big part of Kamen Rider is to be able to change the future. There are a lot of cases where it shows that the future changes. Calibur is able to see the future, but it changes because something happens.

this doesn't seem combat applicable to me, is there a scene of him using this in a fight?

If that's not convincing, Saber riders are shown to scale to 01 riders. 01 riders upscale a very long chain of precognition with one of the best being KR 02

• Zero-Two Arithmetic (ゼロツーアリスマテック, Zerotsū Arisumatekku): Zero-Two's faceplate processor. During the battle, the artificial intelligence There extracts the thoughts of the matching person and learns the enemy and surrounding information to predict the behavior. The optimal solution is found in about 0.01 seconds from the 2 trillion patterns of attack and evasion patterns derived from it, and it is reported to the matching person. This ultra-fast learning allows the user to take advantage of the battle.

Kamen Rider Z2's components (There) also predicted entire alternate timelines where itself doesn't exist so there's that.

That isnt a reliable source at all. Its literally a screenshot of something like a csap profile.

But even better than those, is Kamen Rider 03. They fought Kamen Rider Zein, who was using Hyper Clock Up (This is the best video i can find on it copyright lol).

at what point did they fight him at hyper clock up

So he uses Kamen Rider Kabuto's card which makes him go Hyper Clock Up. Basically, their precognition can hit targets going at immeasurable speed.

• In addition to high-speed movement, the Hyper Clock-Up can also transcend time, allowing the rider to travel back and forth to the past and future. When Kamen Rider GATACK = Arata Kagami lost his life due to an attack by Camaras Worm, he was able to save him by going back in time and defeating Camaras Worm to alter the future.

This is only possible if they have immeasurable speed themselves, you can't precog immeasurable speed because they can just go back to before you even started precogging them.

and better than that, is KR Regad Omega who can see the past and future of any event. Whom the Geats riders also defeated.

Is the ability to see the past and future combat applicable? if so please send a scan

The choreography is really good btw

• Lops Precog Vision (ロプスプレコグヴィジョン, Ropusu Purekog Vijon): The visual device. High-dimensional images processed in real time from cameras on various parts of the body are displayed on an internal hemispherical monitor to provide a seamless view of the real and virtual worlds. It can see up to 100 angles simultaneously using the camera of Each terminal, and can also see into the past and future of any event.

another screenshot from csap

and better than that, the Saber riders in the endgame was able to fight and go toe to toe with an omniscient being. Who also scales as "close as possible" to the Almighty Book.

a lot of things are wrong here

1. firstly it did be nigh omniscient if its as close as possible, and not the same as it
2. mtl isn't allowed for adding abilities, so i dont think this can even be used
3. If an "omniscient" being is beaten by someone who isnt omniscient then they either choose to lose or they aren't omniscient. Or they were just not physically able to keep up with the opponent

• Grimoire Visor (グリモワールバイザー, Gurimowāru Baizā): The full visor mask. By directly acting as a visor in the table of contents of the omnipotent and omnipotent book, it is possible to reflect the truth of the world and capture it as visual information. In addition, all information can be browsed at any time.
• Storious Cuirass (ストリウスキュイラス, Sutoriusu Kyuirasu): The chest and shoulder armor. It plays the role of a construction circuit that spins the power of the Wonder Ride Book and Alter Ride Book contained in the Grimoire Wonder Ride Book, and can cause a powerful phenomenon through the armor. It is also possible to combine different folklore powers in a complex way to bring about a wide range of immeasurable events.

this isnt valid as scans

• All of creation within Saber is said to have been generated by a single artifact, referred to here as the「Almighty Book」. This book contains the sum total of all knowledge and concepts, with human history and its accumulated knowledge constituting only a small fraction of its contents.

Edit: omg bruh all my links were deleted bc discord is banned

cool, so its similar to the tome of wisdom of Echidna

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Gang, no offense, but I don’t think any of this is usable for the matchups. It’s not properly indexed, and there’s a serious lack of scans. None of what you said is on the profiles. I’ve let things like this slide before because updating profiles takes time, but there has to be a line somewhere.

Most of what you’ve sent either looks like wank or stuff pulled from random sites, and there’s no reliable way for me to verify if any of it is actually true.

 

[DontTalkDT]

The funny thing is that I, on the one hand, see Halibel getting a close victory here, but on the other hand, don't see how Glare would lose against the Tiersetter based on the arguments presented in this thread.
Edit: What I mean: Basically all advantages that were brought up for Glare against Halibel, SR would struggle a billion times harder against.

 

[DemonicDude]

The funny thing is that I, on the one hand, see Halibel getting a close victory here, but on the other hand, don't see how Glare would lose against the Tiersetter based on the arguments presented in this thread.
Edit: What I mean: Basically all advantages that were brought up for Glare against Halibel, SR would struggle a billion times harder against.

@Shadowslash125

 

[Minaaaa]

Gang, no offense, but I don’t think any of this is usable for the matchups. It’s not properly indexed, and there’s a serious lack of scans. None of what you said is on the profiles. I’ve let things like this slide before because updating profiles takes time, but there has to be a line somewhere.

Most of what you’ve sent either looks like wank or stuff pulled from random sites, and there’s no reliable way for me to verify if any of it is actually true.

The "Csap" scans are translations from KRWiki, the raw text comes from the TV Asahi websites released for each show (not interested in the match, just clearing things up)

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

TK is effective against Halibel due to the LS difference but i dont know why KRG is here...

Another clone one shotting shock rock while being invisible, Hallibel is not losing to shock rock, and when I literally saw x characters entering in the tournament I simply decide not to enter because the rules as per usual are decoration

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

The "Csap" scans are translations from KRWiki, the raw text comes from the TV Asahi websites released for each show (not interested in the match, just clearing things up)

could you send the official link?

Another clone one shotting shock rock while being invisible, Hallibel is not losing to shock rock, and when I literally saw x characters entering in the tournament I simply decide not to enter because the rules as per usual are decoration

Halibel's range is tens of kilometers and SR can go to space, its a range issue too

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Halibel's range is tens of kilometers and SR can go to space, its a range issue too

They still start at 4 KM and Halibel at that range has enough time to simply deadspot shockrock or send a clone, while shockrock at that range would use range attacks, not with the energy cage, the energy cage is like a thing he does mid fight, not at the literal beginning of it or when he knows he needs to restrain someone

Edit: Also the fact that Shockrock can use one energy cage for one halibel, that could be a clone perfecly and if anything, another clone can deadspot the cage, so yeah, how is he losing?