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We don't want zombies on our lawn part 3

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zombie physiology

ability additions basic
resistances
new weaknesses (only applies to basic zombies): zombies in general suffer from poor eye sight, endless hunger and headaches on top of being weak to getting sea sick(which is something zomboss also suffers from)

heroes:
newer abilities
resistances:
bosses:

pvz dream physiology and layered haxs pages (the dream physiology stuff should apply to all characters as its something they can do in all of their dream worlds and the layered hax page should more easily explain all of the layered haxs in pvz)

possible informational type 2 existence erasure resistance (for everyone who can resist the history erasure stuff): the pvz universe to the real world is seen as a regular game made out of code and data which would make everything be made out of code and data which things like dream worlds which are type 1 informational as they are mental landscapes that contains all knowledge in ones head like ones thoughts feelings and memories and other aspects like space-time/history itself being made out of code/information as well.

plants striking/lifting strength upgrades: the plants can struggle against the zombies in raw strength and harm/overwhelm brown coats to even hero zombies like Super brainzs with their physical striking attacks meaning that their values should be changed to the same as the brown coat zombies for specifically pvz 2 era plants while the heroes gain the same striking strength as the hero zombies.


removal of pvz 2 Chinese scan:
the poisonous air scan uses a pvz 2 Chinese only character for it which pvz2c was deem as being non canon in this thread.

respawning applying to all of the plants/zombies (basic and bosses) and an addition to respawning:it has shown multiple times in the comics and games that regular plants and zombies can respawn/randomly come back to life as for example potato mine and dandelions(who ain't hero plants and rather are basic plants) can respawn from blowing themselves up(which dandelion treats as an usual thing she regularly does with bfn even confirming this is the same one from gw) added in that dummy someone who isn’t an hero also respawned in bfn from exploding in gw2 similar to dandelion with other Spawnable's which are playable like wildflowers and tv heads who both are treated as being basic plants and zombies are also able to respawn(with one of their abilities quite literally being based around this) including bosses like torchwood and even goat zombies like hover goat can respawn as well with other characters like major sweetie treating it as an in universe thing all the plants and zombies can do added in that basic zombies like Mr. Stubbins have came back from being eaten and digested by chomper in the comics, further implying that this is rather just an in-universe thing all of the plants/zombies can just do and should be applicable to all of the plants and zombies added in that it also logically makes sense and explains why imps blow themselves up when kamikazing the plants killing themselves to harm them alongside the plants doing the same as they know they won't “die” and will just respawn again back to normal perfectly fine like how zombies in multiple of the trailers can die yet still come back good as new alongside with plants in pvz 2 with even bosses in pvz gw2 who canonically died come back alive in pvz bfn.


agrees:@ActuallySpaceMan42 (agrees with everything besides black hole layered 4 transmutation plot and infor 2 erasure explosion manipulation to zomboss and special zombie regeneration/resistances applying to all zombies) believes that reality warping causality manipulation and history erasure is just Ascauslity.
 
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Any new feats for the PvZ verse coming from PVZ3 Evolved?
I'd prefer if pvz3 evolved was a reboot so the powerscaling of it would be more fun as all characters wouldn't be scaling to insane comics feats or the low multiversal Garden warfare Era feats

I recall sometimes meteors fall In the lawn in pvz3 evolved, should be somewhat comparable to Meteor Flower meteors being at most Multi City Block level, in case the meteors do come from a long distance like real life meteors
 
I'd prefer if pvz3 evolved was a reboot so the powerscaling of it would be more fun as all characters wouldn't be scaling to insane comics feats or the low multiversal Garden warfare Era feats

I recall sometimes meteors fall In the lawn in pvz3 evolved, should be somewhat comparable to Meteor Flower meteors being at most Multi City Block level, in case the meteors do come from a long distance like real life meteors
it kinda depends as it seems canon and the other versions were still canon to the games added in that the gnomes still exist in this game(being the first time outside of gw2 and bfn they are actually acknowledged)
 

zombie physiology

ability additions basic
seems fine
  • self-sustain type 2: zombies are able to survive not eating nor drinking for over 12 years and ain't affected by this.
Link doesn't work for me idk why
maybe
seems fine

not sure abt transmutation but healing is fine
tentatively, I think this is fine
  • intangibility(elemental):when melted they enter an liquid state.
scans pls
I don't think this grants anything, data isn't intangible
  • further justification for non physical interaction: the plants can harm beings made out of pure code.
See above
fine ig but I'm a bit iffy on this one
links don't load for me
resistances
  • empathic manipulation: which even zomboss was able to break out of the effects of his emotion ray(off screen).
prob not ok
  • Minor probability manipulation: Zombies can just absorb luck.
I dunno abt this one, zomboss is quite the arrogant villain
link doesn't load
second link doesn't load
wouldn't this just be high dura?
  • Existence erasure(Information type 1 mind body and possibly plot/history erasure) and reality wapring: the dreamworld can contains things like knowledge(which makes up all of their thoughts, memories and feelings)
ok
ok but 4th wall breaks don't qualify for plot manip i think
not sure abt the PvZ wiki scans but I'll wait for staff
that's a goat tho?
shrinking violent doesn't have ee, its just strong shrinking
  • possible causality manipulation: the plants and zombies are unaffected by the gnomes reverting the effects of the space-time continuum collapsing on itself.
I'll wait for staff on this 1
neutral


  • heroes:
    • madness manipulation should be changed to type 2 due to its description just not following type 3 in really any way and for further jutifcation crazy has shown to not be affected by his mirror balls.
fine ig
should be ok ig?
imgur is super unreliable, upload directly to fandom or use Gyazo, imgchest, or freeimage.host
why wouldn't this be game mechanics
y wouldn't this be game mechanics

  • pvz dream physiology and layered haxs pages (the dream physiology stuff should apply to all characters as its something they can do in all of their dream worlds and the layered hax page should more easily explain all of the layered haxs in pvz)
I won't comment on this for now
I'll wait for staff on this one


  • plants striking/lifting strength upgrades: the plants can struggle against the zombies in raw strength and harm/overwhelm brown coats to even hero zombies like Super brainzs with their physical striking attacks meaning that their values should be changed to the same as the brown coat zombies for specifically pvz 2 era plants while the heroes gain the same striking strength as the hero zombies.
seems ok
idk abt this one
ghost pepper didn't respawn??? the player just placed another ghost pepper, ghost zombies might be ok tho ig?
 
Maybe data destruction makes more sense on the fact that a zombie hypnotized by hypno shrooms can kill 8 bit zombies, same for plants doing it

Also I do believe that shrinking violet somewhat erases imps, as in those levels of PvZ 2 where you have to kills zombies in a certain timeframe, a Imp being shrinked is indeed counted as killing it, which would be implying they die by being erased

Time manipulation should work, is not exclusive to the goat in that video right? Even then isn't that goat a zombie too, just an animal one?

On the rest I agree with most of ayoguys opinion
 
Also I do believe that shrinking violet somewhat erases imps, as in those levels of PvZ 2 where you have to kills zombies in a certain timeframe, a Imp being shrinked is indeed counted as killing it, which would be implying they die by being erased
huh, noted
 
Link doesn't work for me idk why
weird as they work fine for me
scans pls
it should be from the zombies becoming lipuid in the regeneration and immorality parts.
I don't think this grants anything, data isn't intangible

See above
data techically is something you can interact it physically as it doesn't physically exist but i think it should count as data destruction.

links don't load for me
can you try again as they work for me still
I dunno abt this one, zomboss is quite the arrogant villain
it is consisent with the fact that they can absorb stuff and zomboss in the games unless how he acts in the comics is more reliable on what they can do
link doesn't load
second link doesn't load
maybe try again?
wouldn't this just be high dura?
their bodies themselves is quite literally exploding
ok but 4th wall breaks don't qualify for plot manip i think
it isn't plot manipulation but rather erasure as it erased the story itself which is shown and acknowledged by the characters
not sure abt the PvZ wiki scans but I'll wait for staff
i only linked the images from the game itself on the wiki.
that's a goat tho?
in the background the plants and zombies still continue to fight even when time is stopped added in that the goat is an hero zombie which for some reason gained the ability to transform into goats.
shrinking violent doesn't have ee, its just strong shrinking
technically it is existence erasure just an limited version of it as it is shrinking them into nothing literally.
imgur is super unreliable, upload directly to fandom or use Gyazo, imgchest, or freeimage.host
i prefer using mostly youtube and not reliabling on it much
why wouldn't this be game mechanics

y wouldn't this be game mechanics
it is something that you can use specifically in ops and the story mode itself so it should be canon
ghost pepper didn't respawn??? the player just placed another ghost pepper, ghost zombies might be ok tho ig?
there is in lore only one specific ghost pepper which the thyme events do show
 
Time manipulation should work, is not exclusive to the goat in that video right? Even then isn't that goat a zombie too, just an animal one?
the basic plants and zombies still continue to fight each other while time is stopped in the background and also for even more context on the goat uh the hero zombie literally just turns himself into an goat(we never get told how they do this other then somehow gaining it after being turned into an goat by rose too much which zombies copying abilities is somewhat consistent going based off of pvz heroes)
 
data techically is something you can interact it physically as it doesn't physically exist but i think it should count as data destruction.
is data destruction even a power on the wiki? besides 8 bit zombies are clearly tangible beings
it is consisent with the fact that they can absorb stuff and zomboss in the games unless how he acts in the comics is more reliable on what they can do
fine i suppose
it isn't plot manipulation but rather erasure as it erased the story itself which is shown and acknowledged by the characters
no, it erases the Dreamlands and some comic panels.
i only linked the images from the game itself on the wiki.
ok
in the background the plants and zombies still continue to fight even when time is stopped added in that the goat is an hero zombie which for some reason gained the ability to transform into goats.
alright then
i prefer using mostly youtube and not reliabling on it much

it is something that you can use specifically in ops and the story mode itself so it should be canon
alright
there is in lore only one specific ghost pepper which the thyme events do show
What? The games and comics have consistently displayed multiple members of each plant type which includes ghost peppers
 
is data destruction even a power on the wiki? besides 8 bit zombies are clearly tangible beings
Data manipulation is an power on the site and destroying it would count as manipulation and they are outright described as being beings made out of light and data who are alright accepted as being non physical.
no, it erases the Dreamlands and some comic panels.
The comic panels are the story itself
What? The games and comics have consistently displayed multiple members of each plant type which includes ghost peppers
Going based off of the games and even the comics themselves its an yes yet no situation as they are an species but specific members of their species are main characters (similar to how in shows specific animals can be the "main person or character" while multiple look alike exist)
 
Data manipulation is an power on the site and destroying it would count as manipulation and they are outright described as being beings made out of light and data who are alright accepted as being non physical.
fine ig
The comic panels are the story itself

No. A panel of Dragon Ball=/=Dragon Ball's plot.

"Plot Manipulation is the ability to create, destroy, or control the plot that governs reality."

Prove that comic panels govern reality.
Going based off of the games and even the comics themselves its an yes yet no situation as they are an species but specific members of their species are main characters (similar to how in shows specific animals can be the "main person or character" while multiple look alike exist)
So they're a species. That means instant use plants dying and then being replanted isn't resurrection, they need the player for that anyways and cannot do it on their own
 
No. A panel of Dragon Ball=/=Dragon Ball's plot.

"Plot Manipulation is the ability to create, destroy, or control the plot that governs reality."

Prove that comic panels govern reality.
It being acknowledged as an in universe thing should show that its something that exists in reality which the comics as shown in the link make clear is supposed to represent the plot and in the garden paths comic(on the plants physiology page) also refers to these panels representing the story.
So they're a species. That means instant use plants dying and then being replanted isn't resurrection, they need the player for that anyways and cannot do it on their own
It isn't them being replaced by another plant of their species but rather them just reskawning(as shown in the respawning part as instant use plants like potato mine(in the comics) and dandy lion(shooter games) both outright respawn from dying
 
For more context the story() also creates decisions() which in the comics itself and even the cosmology( https://share.google/Eqw5dFVVG3P72cFvA) makes whole entire parallel universes added in that once the story ends so does each of the panels( proving that the panels is the story itself added in that logically the panels being the plot itself makes an lot of sense.
 
It being acknowledged as an in universe thing should show that its something that exists in reality
Existing in reality =/= governing reality

with this logic any character who breaks the 4th wall is outerversal
which the comics as shown in the link make clear is supposed to represent the plot
it's not clear at all. going through the scans, there's absolutely 0 indication that affecting these panels is in any capacity comparable to affecting the entire story. why would being able to affect singular comic panels be the same as being able to control the entire comic's story? under this logic, kid Goku and hulk would both have plot manip
and in the garden paths comic(on the plants physiology page) also refers to these panels representing the story.
Destroying a representation of a story=/=being able to control the story

In case it's unclear, reaching outside a comic book is not plot manip. a character interacting with comic panels is not plot manip. Plot manipulation is being able to control the story, not things within the story
It isn't them being replaced by another plant of their species but rather them just reskawning
why?
(as shown in the respawning part as instant use plants like potato mine(in the comics)
ok well that would only apply to potato mines then
and dandy lion(shooter games) both outright respawn from dying
fine ig but it would not apply to all plants in any capacity
 
Existing in reality =/= governing reality

with this logic any character who breaks the 4th wall is outerversal

it's not clear at all. going through the scans, there's absolutely 0 indication that affecting these panels is in any capacity comparable to affecting the entire story. why would being able to affect singular comic panels be the same as being able to control the entire comic's story? under this logic, kid Goku and hulk would both have plot manip

Destroying a representation of a story=/=being able to control the story

In case it's unclear, reaching outside a comic book is not plot manip. a character interacting with comic panels is not plot manip. Plot manipulation is being able to control the story, not things within the story

why?
Again plot erasure isn't plot manipulation and is destroying the story itself not manipulating it which even then when the reader gained the ability to do so by deciding what ever happens in the story it effected reality creating parallel universes and what not while deciding what the characters do in said story also some of these counter arguments don't make sense.

As my argument is that because of the fact that the comic labels are acknowledge as a in universe thing by the characters and are quite frankly the story itself which it has shown been shown that changes to it can create parallel universes(showing that it grovens reality) then the zombies surviving it specifically being erased would give them resistance to plot erasure as it would inherently erase it i never said that it would give them any type of higher scaling.
ok well that would only apply to potato mines then

fine ig but it would not apply to all plants in any capacity
I already shown tons of evidence of both plants and zombies respaeming alongside characters treating it as an in universe thing everyone of them can easily do making it blatant that it should apply to everyone.
 
that's just common sense. once you close a book the events of the panels have essentially stopped
they specific end when the story dies not when the book does.
I don't see how any of the videos you linked prove that the comic panels somehow equate to the story.
I already shown you that it is quite frankly the story itself in the imgur link.
 
Again plot erasure isn't plot manipulation and is destroying the story itself not manipulating it which even then when the reader gained the ability to do so by deciding what ever happens in the story it effected reality creating parallel universes and what not while deciding what the characters do in said story also some of these counter arguments don't make sense.
I'm just gonna drop this and wait for what high tier HAX experts hafta say
I already shown tons of evidence of both plants and zombies respaeming alongside characters treating it as an in universe thing everyone of them can easily do making it blatant that it should apply to everyone.
Instant use plants? Ehhhhhh maaaaaaaayyyybbbbbeeee
But every plant? Hell no. They die in the games all the time, resurrection in garden warfare type stuff is game mechanics, replanting is just replacing them with a new member and that's something ONLY THE PLAYER CAN DO.
 
Instant use plants? Ehhhhhh maaaaaaaayyyybbbbbeeee
But every plant? Hell no. They die in the games all the time, resurrection in garden warfare type stuff is game mechanics, replanting is just replacing them with a new member and that's something ONLY THE PLAYER CAN DO.
Firstly any character can plant(peashooter sunflower and even wall nut in the pvz 2 thyme events with crazy dave) can plant any of the plants including each other(not dave nor penny) with the plants and zombies with all the heroes showing that they can respawn added in with multiple other plants who ain't instant use and are treated as being basic non hero characters (TV heads and the spawnable idk name plant classes from bfn added in that danalion blatantly says that she isn't an heroes with other plants like major sweetie plain out acting like its something everyone can do)

with the alamacs and pvz 2 literally confirming that the plants u use in game are the main character ones and them dying isn't really Canon(besides in plant your path) like using this argument then peashooter sunflower chomper and wallnut should be dead and shouldn't be alive as of now(who in the shooters are the heroes
 
Firstly any character can plant(peashooter sunflower and even wall nut in the pvz 2 thyme events with crazy dave) can plant any of the plants including each other(not dave nor penny)
not resurrection. when a tree dies and I plant more trees I'm not bringing them back to life
with the alamacs and pvz 2 literally confirming that the plants u use in game are the main character ones
MCs can die
and them dying isn't really Canon
why isntt it canon
 
not resurrection. when a tree dies and I plant more trees I'm not bringing them back to life
I dont think using pvz 1 makes sense when respawning became an csnon in universe thing during pvz gw1 to future games(including 2 technically)
MCs can die
Never said they can't but that doesn't even address my point?
why isntt it canon
Then what would even be the point of the levels where you defend and protect endangered plants(plants who are im danger) when you can easily replace them?

Plus Dave refers to the plants as his friends amd actively go out of his way to protect them throughout the games.
 
Because he doesn't want them to die
but they can just revive themselves! like seriously the story does not work if the plants have resurrection. they blatantly die upon being eaten in the games. this is so obvious. THE PLAYER simply plants down new members of the species, that's NOT A POWER ANY OF THE PLANTS HAVE. If there is only one plant explain why I can place down rows of Chompers.
 
but they can just revive themselves! like seriously the story does not work if the plants have resurrection. they blatantly die upon being eaten in the games. this is so obvious. THE PLAYER simply plants down new members of the species, that's NOT A POWER ANY OF THE PLANTS HAVE. If there is only one plant explain why I can place down rows of Chompers.
because they are an species like their being multiple plants don't Condict respawning applying to all of the plants and zombies hell i shown evidence of this which even backup with the almanac itself like seriously they ain't being replaced nor do they actually die in the story mode(i don't think any type of dialog supports this and even in the gw and heroes games he still cares about the heroes even through they can 100% respawn) with the many basic hero and even boss plants and even zombies showing the ability to respawning
 
because they are an species like their being multiple plants don't Condict respawning applying to all of the plants and zombies hell i shown evidence of this which even backup with the almanac itself like seriously they ain't being replaced nor do they actually die in the story mode(i don't think any type of dialog supports this and even in the gw and heroes games he still cares about the heroes even through they can 100% respawn) with the many basic hero and even boss plants and even zombies showing the ability to respawning
since I dont think this debate is going anywhere, I'm just gonna let staff and supporters handle it.
 
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