A Revision About A World of Slimes — Conclusions (Final Part)

[Antvasima]

A question: Isn't Low 2-C for Rimuru at the absolute start of the series, to then escalate even further from there, quite a bit much? It intuitively seems extremely exaggerated.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, why was I not placed under disagree regarding a discussion rule above?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

A question: Isn't Low 2-C for Rimuru at the absolute start of the series, to then escalate even further from there, quite a bit much? It intuitively seems extremely exaggerated.

It's related to in-depth chain-scaling which is fully explained in the OP, which all the staff agrees to.

Also, why was I not placed under disagree regarding a discussion rule above?

My apologies, I forgot to add you as I had been busy irl at that time, and forgot to add your vote. I'll do so now.

 

[Antvasima]

Provide a summary of the reasoning please, as it wasn't clear to me when I read it previously. Doesn't that strongly contradict the premise of the series, that Rimuru starts out weak and gradually begins to grow in power and influence, along with the actual demonstrated scale of power early on?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Provide a summary of the reasoning please, as it wasn't clear to me when I read it previously. Doesn't that strongly contradict the premise of the series, that Rimuru starts out weak and gradually begins to grow in power and influence, along with the actual demonstrated scale of power early on?

It is based on the fact that phantoms that have around 100K EP can alone destroy a "weak" world if they don't hold back (or normal by our standards, weak by Rimuru's standards)

The reason why we see Rimuru struggling in his own world is because that world is that absurdly strong. It is protected by various mechanics in-verse, which nerf basically anything in it that can cause a "disaster". Thus why something that is L2C or 2C normally doesn't seem so special in the Cardinal world (Rimuru's home world)

It's concept is inspired by axis mundi (or centre of centre) according to Fuse, and because it's the central world in the series, it's so special.

Well, I know cross-verse examples aren't the best, but because you're always busy and don't have the time to properly dwelve into scaling of verses you're not interested in (which is perfectly normal and fine), allow me to put it like this; In a sense, think of it like the Stage for the Tournament of Power in Dragon Ball Super. It was created by Grand Priest to be able to withstand attacks from super strong beings that would otherwise be destroying galaxies or universes. Think of this as a similar case, except that the Cardinal World is an actual world where people live.

So even though Rimuru's very strong in our tiering system, his enemies are equally stronger and so he still struggles.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the explanation, but don't we have scaling rules for this wiki that sets the described character power levels relative to the reality wherein the "baseline" for each story takes place? Otherwise, even the bugs on the Marvel Comics world would likely be at least High 1-B for example, which would render all nuances in the comparative scaling in our wiki meaningless.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Okay. Thank you for the explanation, but don't we have scaling rules for this wiki that sets the described character power levels relative to the reality wherein the "baseline" for each story takes place? Otherwise, even the bugs on the Marvel Comics world would likely be at least High 1-B for example, which would render all nuances in the comparative scaling in our wiki meaningless.

That is for cases including:

• Qualitative Differences (1-A and up)
• Atom scaling (where a single atom contains a multiverse inside it)

Neither of those cases apply here.

 

[Antvasima]

It is a case of the in their own world low level characters starting at infinity (Low 2-C), despite likely having trouble with tier 8 feats within the setting itself, which turns the scaling pointlessly uninformative for visitors (even if hardcore "all hail the holy upgrade, no matter how much we have to twist information to reach it" fans might consider it self-validating), and likely falls under our rules to prevent this.

@Agnaa @Mr. Bambu @DontTalkDT @GrathOfLux @LephyrTheRevanchist

What do you think about this situation?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

It is a case of the in their own world low level characters starting at infinity (Low 2-C), despite likely having trouble with tier 8 feats within the setting itself, which turns the scaling pointlessly uninformative for visitors (even if hardcore "all hail the holy upgrade, no matter how much we have to twist information to reach it" fans might consider it self-validating), and likely falls under our rules to prevent this.

@Agnaa @Mr. Bambu @DontTalkDT @GrathOfLux @LephyrTheRevanchist

What do you think about this situation?

Well, I'll be going off to sleep, it's far into midnight in my country, so I'd like to ask for @AlexSamDen to be given permission in case a staff needs to know something.

 

[Antvasima]

No, I do not think so. I have the impression that you have a history of repeatedly deceitfully manipulating information in order to get your desired end result of wanked statistics at all costs, but I will wait and see what other staff members think about this.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

No, I do not think so. I have the impression that you have a history of repeatedly deceitfully manipulating information in order to get your desired end result of wanked statistics at all costs, but I will wait and see what other staff members think about this.

Ant, I feel like you shouldn't be judging someone based on their past behavior, and at that, the only "history" I have here is a ban that I appealed to and my appeal was accepted as valid, even by you.

Let's keep the discussion here logical and not poison the well. I know you are stressed, and so am I, but that doesn't mean we should let our emotions hinder our judgement

31. Poisoning the well​

This is similar to ad hominem, except it is directed against other observers instead of your opponent. You say that there is something objectionable about a person, therefore people shouldn't listen to their arguments.

It is a case of the in their own world low level characters starting at infinity (Low 2-C), despite likely having trouble with tier 8 feats within the setting itself, which turns the scaling pointlessly uninformative for visitors (even if hardcore "all hail the holy upgrade, no matter how much we have to twist information to reach it" fans might consider it self-validating), and likely falls under our rules to prevent this.

@Agnaa @Mr. Bambu @DontTalkDT @GrathOfLux @LephyrTheRevanchist

What do you think about this situation?

This is again just blatantly accusing ke of manipulating information, when, in fact, we had a lengthy discussion in the first thread about all the feats and anti feats. The 2nd thread aside where the cosmology placement was decided, the opposition and supporters had come to a conclusion on the anti feats under staff supervision. Overrulling that with "I think you're twisting information" is... Extmrely uncalled for.

I don't mind the staff you pinged evaluating things, but the accusations you made against me are just rude...

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I apologise if I am too suspicious, but I have the pattern impression that you were banned for falsifying translations, plotted in a Discord group to get the answers that you wanted out of the Tensura author, and now didn't seem to clearly illustrate your exact intentions with this thread, that all Tensura characters would start at infinity, even if they are very weak within their own setting, and you also seem to help head a Tensura Discord group for coordinated statistics-boosting efforts, so all in all this is not the kind of behaviour that I appreciate in our community. I want us to focus on accuracy, not wanking via any available underhanded means.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Okay. I apologise if I am too suspicious, but I have the pattern impression that you were banned for falsifying translations,

No, I was banned simply for using MTL because I was in a hurry. That ban was extended on the basis that I manipulated translations later, but I appealed to the ban with proof that I didn't manipulate translations, and my appeal was accepted.

plotted in a Discord group to get the answers that you wanted out of the Tensura author,

No. I asked the tensura author a question, yes, but that was back in 2023 before I even joined vsbw. Will you really be holding me accountable for that?

and now didn't seem to clearly illustrate your exact intentions with this thread,

I very clearly did clarify my exact intentions. I mentioned every feat I brought up in this thread in the tl;Dr/summary one way or another, just so that even if someone missed the tier in the spoiled boxes, they would know from reading the summary.

that all Tensura characters would start at infinity, even if they are very weak within their own setting,

Not all. Only those comparable to Rimuru would be so. His subordinates in their first keys are mostly all still in the tier 6 range.

It's been repeatedly discussed in the first thread on how an attack that has shown to destroy a literal Universe cannot do much in front of the Cardinal World's mechanics. Ignoring those mechanics that the author set is very much simply "I think ignoring all the mechanics is best even if it causes inconsistencies, simply because otherwise we'll get high tiers".

Also, another very important point, Rimuru was by no means "weak" in the beginning, he would still easily be in the stronger side of the verse filled with thousands of characters. But not all those characters have profiles here for obvious reasons, which makes people think Rimuru was very weak at the start because the few beings he fought against were already very very strong, but that's not the case at all.

and you also seem to help head a Tensura Discord group for coordinated statistics-boosting efforts, so all in all this is not the kind of behaviour that I appreciate in our community.

There seems to be a misunderstanding going around not just here but also on other platforms that watch these threads that I'm some "leader figure" in the supporter group, but no, I am not, at all, their "leader".

I just give my opinion and we hold a voting, if the majority agrees we go with it, otherwise we don't. I have been rejected for many ideas too by other supporters, which I didn't bring up to this wiki as a result. But because I have free time and I'm good with writing, I'm usually the one giving form to all of our ideas (tho of course there are always other supporters doing their own things too)

So it's more so a voting system then anything else, even in our community in discord.

I want us to focus on accuracy, not wanking via any available underhanded means.

I will say my method isn't "underhanded", but in the end it's all up to you. Unless you want us to make an "Anime only" version of Rimuru, he'll be bound to be overpowered. We could also, however, add a "6-B inside the Cardinal World, Low 2-C outside the Cardinal World"

 

[FinePoint]

Okay. Thank you for the explanation, but don't we have scaling rules for this wiki that sets the described character power levels relative to the reality wherein the "baseline" for each story takes place? Otherwise, even the bugs on the Marvel Comics world would likely be at least High 1-B for example, which would render all nuances in the comparative scaling in our wiki meaningless.

I believe you're referring to Reality Equalization?

"Generally, Reality Equalization should only apply in cases of reality-fiction differences between two characters, as it gives a better approximation to real-world statistics than other types of layers of reality. These layers of reality also tend to be a lot more subjective in their powers rather than objective. Characters are only considered strong from a certain perspective."

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I apologise for being overly suspicious then.

I think that your solution of inside and outside of the cardinal world seems reasonable.

 

[Antvasima]

I believe you're referring to Reality Equalization?

Yes. Thank you.

 

[FinePoint]

"6-B inside the Cardinal World, Low 2-C outside the Cardinal World"

Okay. I apologise for being overly suspicious then.

I think that your solution of inside and outside of the cardinal world seems reasonable.

This is indeed how Reality Equalization keys are usually handled, like: 9-B in the real world, 9-A in the Matrix.

Technically this isn't a reality-fiction difference, but also technically the page says "generally", and "usually" for those in virtual worlds.

So, as it's written, it is possible for us to make an exception here.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Ant, I feel like you shouldn't be judging someone based on their past behavior, and at that, the only "history" I have here is a ban that I appealed to and my appeal was accepted as valid, even by you.

Let's keep the discussion here logical and not poison the well. I know you are stressed, and so am I, but that doesn't mean we should let our emotions hinder our judgement


This is again just blatantly accusing ke of manipulating information, when, in fact, we had a lengthy discussion in the first thread about all the feats and anti feats. The 2nd thread aside where the cosmology placement was decided, the opposition and supporters had come to a conclusion on the anti feats under staff supervision. Overrulling that with "I think you're twisting information" is... Extmrely uncalled for.

I don't mind the staff you pinged evaluating things, but the accusations you made against me are just rude...

To be noted, this shouldn't have been discussed in isolation in the first place, because clearly, from an outsiders perspective, it's such an unintuitive proposition that is kinda crazy to be evaluated at all imo.

If the fact Cardinal World affects the rating proposed on this OP, all of the consequences of accepting this weird verse mechanism should've been included alongside it. We even have a rule about this fact.

But what's done is done, I suppose. I wouldn't attempt to invalidate an entire staff vote based on a lack of proper procedure, specially if its seemingly legit anyways.

Okay. I apologise for being overly suspicious then.

I think that your solution of inside and outside of the cardinal world seems reasonable.

And yes. If such mechanism actually exists, then that would indeed solve the entire issue.

 

[Elizhaa]

The other supporting points probably should have been listed in the crt for solid evidence of consistencies of tier 2 like Low 2-C. Among relevant feats, Velgrynd can destroy weaker worlds as a true dragon with her aura (Volume 17 Chapter 2); she was saying those at the proposed Low 2-C can do something for a weak world where her statements would be Option 2 and 3 from her intelligence and status like a deity.
Carrera was able to destroy an Otherworld from Velgrynd from Abyss Annihilation which is said to be capable of collapsing the entire Otherworld (Volume 15 Chapter 5); Velgrynd's otherworld was created by her, sustained by her, have its own law of physics (Volume 15 Chapter 4), and other things like Fortress of Dream show it is separate from the main space-time like in implementation link in the crt. There is a mention of the Otherworld in the same Volume 15 with its having the same kanji as Otherworld (Volume 15 Chapter 3) suggests Velgrynd's Otherworld is similar at 2-C. Also, Rimuru also mention that Carrera's magic being enhance with sub-dimensional break could destroy Ramiris's Labyrinth

Although it would have repair itself, Rimuru, in his first key, would been damage infinite prison and Veldora support this case but Veldora might have not escape if that path was taken (Volume 1 chapter 1) that Chloe trapped Veldora which should be accepted as infinite space and support tier 2;

• Infinity Prison (無限牢獄インフィニティプリズン, Infiniti Purizun): Entombs the target in an infinitely vast imaginary space. Via Infinite Prison[6], and can also be used on yourself as well to act as a Barrier that prevents all outside interferences. It is bigger inside as Infinite prison shared similar properties to Rimuru's first keys of stomach that is metaphysical (chapter 31.5) space or pocket world where things (chapter 17.5) can be created (chapter 17.5) out of imagination and strength, which is basically irrelevant to it; Chloe's imaginary space from infinite prison can also create things from imagination and also there (Volume 12 Chapter 5)

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

No, I do not think so. I have the impression that you have a history of repeatedly deceitfully manipulating information in order to get your desired end result of wanked statistics at all costs, but I will wait and see what other staff members think about this.

I've had enough of you.
Why are you spreading false things about Astral?

Astral has no record of manipulating information or anything you claim.

Claiming that he manipulates information just because his topics were accepted and you don’t like it is a ridiculous chain of events, and you need to apologize to him for this accusation because it annoys me greatly!

Okay. I apologise if I am too suspicious, but I have the pattern impression that you were banned for falsifying translations, plotted in a Discord group to get the answers that you wanted out of the Tensura author, and now didn't seem to clearly illustrate your exact intentions with this thread, that all Tensura characters would start at infinity, even if they are very weak within their own setting, and you also seem to help head a Tensura Discord group for coordinated statistics-boosting efforts, so all in all this is not the kind of behaviour that I appreciate in our community. I want us to focus on accuracy, not wanking via any available underhanded means.

This is absolutely not true.
Astral did not falsify translations or anything like that.
Those were just claims from haters (that’s what I call them).
And should I remind you that Austrel has already proven his innocence?
So repeating that he’s a translation faker is stupid and ridiculous, and this is a personal attack!
And why does all your talk assume manipulation from the start instead of accuracy?

 

[FinePoint]

I think we should drop this topic, as it will only lead to animosity and derail this thread.

Let's none of us make any more serious accusations here. If there are concerns about a user's conduct, they can be reported through the designated channels.

Otherwise, our focus should remain on the information presented about the verse and what to do about it.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

I think we should drop this topic, as it will only lead to animosity and derail this thread.

Let's none of us make any more serious accusations here. If there are concerns about a user's conduct, they can be reported through the designated channels.

Otherwise, our focus should remain on the information presented about the verse and what to do about it.

As someone in a position, he shouldn’t say things like this without verifying whether what he says is true or not.

But anyway, as you wish.
Also, you can close the topic there’s nothing to discuss now since the topic has been accepted.

 

[FinePoint]

Also, you can close the topic there’s nothing to discuss now since the topic has been accepted.

Well, we usually wait until a revision has actually been applied before closing a thread.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

To be noted, this shouldn't have been discussed in isolation in the first place, because clearly, from an outsiders perspective, it's such an unintuitive proposition that is kinda crazy to be evaluated at all imo.

If the fact Cardinal World affects the rating proposed on this OP, all of the consequences of accepting this weird verse mechanism should've been included alongside it. We even have a rule about this fact.

But what's done is done, I suppose. I wouldn't attempt to invalidate an entire staff vote based on a lack of proper procedure, specially if its seemingly legit anyways.


And yes. If such mechanism actually exists, then that would indeed solve the entire issue.

Well, to be fair, there was this in the "important notes" at the top of the CRT:

• Do not bring up the thing with Cardinal World's durability as it was already addressed in the 1st CRT.

And, from the linked CRT, it was explained in the "Size of Dimensions - Solar System or Planetary AP" section (I can't link the line in specific cuz I'm not on PC). The summary I gave at the end of that section was:

All of this makes it obvious that:

• Things are far harder to destroy in the Cardinal World.
• The Cardinal World has an extremely high concentration of magicules, thus making it harder to destroy.
• One of the branched world that Yuuki observed while in the World-Gap was thought to be completely unrelated to the cardinal world due to the amount of energy that observed Universe as a whole was giving off.
• The Laws of the Cardinal World differ from weak worlds and ordinary worlds, making the concept of 'strength' in the cardinal world far higher.
• It is created by Veldanava's (assumingly special) power.
• It is protected by the Heaven's Tower/Skyspire Tower and the Sacred/Divine Tree, which cannot be destroyed by Feldway's power that can destroy the Universe of the Cardinal World after the sacred tree was destroyed by Milim (from V22, we know that "Universe" refers to the bubble that is space and time itself, which will be discussed later as well), and can only be destroyed by Milim's Drago Nova, which can destroy the entire Cardinal World (or at least one of its Universes/Timelines, which is more narratively consistent).

All of these are far, far sufficient to conclude that the Cardinal Planet alone has durability more than a frickin' world.

But now that I opened the old thread to quote this, I came to realize that even with a link, it would take one some time to binge find this, so I should have clarified the heading or something like that in this thread too, that is my bad.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Okay. I apologise for being overly suspicious then.

I think that your solution of inside and outside of the cardinal world seems reasonable.

Also, just a heads-up, we'd need more time applying this since a lot of ratings were already added before you brought this up, so I think the CRT will probably be open for 1 or 2 more days

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Well, to be fair, there was this in the "important notes" at the top of the CRT:

I saw that. I'm straight up telling you, that note means nil. It's not the proper procedure.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Lephyr here. A full context should always be clearly supplied during revisions.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Low 2-C is definitely not the baseline tier for most characters. There are also issues with what Elizha pointed out. There is a clear-cut statement in Volume 21 or 22 that star level attacks are too much for high-tier characters. Since I’m not free enough to properly address this issue right now, I’ll deal with the scaling chain problem when I have enough time. Ant isn’t wrong about the scaling—that’s all I’ll say.

Not to mention Velgrynd so called Otherworld dimension got destroyed by Star level attack too in Volume 23 iirc (which Eliza argued for Low 2-C above). Well yeah there is so much points which was not addressed so far as I see. I think that should have been made a seperate thread rather than sneaking into this. Also there is issue with energy system which needs to be addressed.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out, EldemadeDityjon. Your further assistance here would be greatly appreciated.

Should all of the most recent Tensura revisions be reverted or modified in the manner that Lephyr and I considered above?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Thank you for helping out, EldemadeDityjon. Your further assistance here would be greatly appreciated.

Currently busy IRL. Can't really tell when I'll be free. But I'll help out whenever I can.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks a lot for your willingness to help.

 

[Tatsumi504]

I have nothing to say about the tiers itself or the scaling but, Nihility magic and Disintegration shouldn't even be on the table for discussion.

For one both of these aren't based on power and thus don't fall under AP but rather hax. Nihility magic uses the void from hell which has negative existential value, this clashes with positive existential value and both are reduced until the released negative energy is cancelled out when it reaches zero.
This is textbook existence erasure but if this qualifies as AP then it should be "Varies up to 2-C" as it's dependent on the amount of void energy released from the underworld.

It was impossible to release an unchecked torrent of void energy large enough to destroy the world unless you could open a gate directly to the depths of Hell itself.

I'm of the opinion that Disintegration on the other hand shouldn't even get it's own tier. It erases physical and spiritual matter and that's it. Unlike nihility magic that has its own statement of world destruction, disintegration has none and though both are compared together, that's in being the ultimate magic that erases things of which nihility magic needs a specific amount to achieve world destruction and isn't on that level on its own.
Disintegration should just remain indexed as hax and not used for AP.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I have nothing to say about the tiers itself or the scaling but, Nihility magic and Disintegration shouldn't even be on the table for discussion.

For one both of these aren't based on power and thus don't fall under AP but rather hax. Nihility magic uses the void from hell which has negative existential value, this clashes with positive existential value and both are reduced until the released negative energy is cancelled out when it reaches zero.
This is textbook existence erasure but if this qualifies as AP then it should be "Varies up to 2-C" as it's dependent on the amount of void energy released from the underworld.



I'm of the opinion that Disintegration on the other hand shouldn't even get it's own tier. It erases physical and spiritual matter and that's it. Unlike nihility magic that has its own statement of world destruction, disintegration has none and though both are compared together, that's in being the ultimate magic that erases things of which nihility magic needs a specific amount to achieve world destruction and isn't on that level on its own.
Disintegration should just remain indexed as hax and not used for AP.

While I can see Nihility Magic's up to 2-C, Disintegration would still be qualifiable for AP since it still can damage True Dragons, per the scans in the OP.

Nihility Magic is 2-C in Destructive Capacity while Disintegration is so in Attack Potency (same as how you can get 2A by either destroying a 2A structure or by harming someone with 2A durability), but since both are ultimately indexed in the attack potency section in vsbw, that's that.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Just gonna comment on the EP chain scaling. (Have been given permission by @Antvasima )

I agree with the Feat and tier/scaling but disagree with the implementation. Here, I will bring up as simply as possible why:
Due to the Cardinal World being far stronger than lower worlds, their rating would remain the same as the current one, but have a note attached to them with "Low 2C outside the Cardinal World".

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Low 2-C is definitely not the baseline tier for most characters. There are also issues with what Elizha pointed out. There is a clear-cut statement in Volume 21 or 22 that star level attacks are too much for high-tier characters. Since I’m not free enough to properly address this issue right now, I’ll deal with the scaling chain problem when I have enough time. Ant isn’t wrong about the scaling—that’s all I’ll say.

Not to mention Velgrynd so called Otherworld dimension got destroyed by Star level attack too in Volume 23 iirc (which Eliza argued for Low 2-C above). Well yeah there is so much points which was not addressed so far as I see. I think that should have been made a seperate thread rather than sneaking into this. Also there is issue with energy system which needs to be addressed.

Based on the statements you described, 3 come to mind. I thought the whole "Cardinal world" would already explain it, but I need to address each individually now?

One is this:

Stellar particles sparkled between her hands, an otherworldly destructive force
swirling around them like a miniature nebula. The extraordinary amount of energy was compressed into a high-density ball with the potential to easily destroy even a star system. Milim, incapable of rational thinking, had no intention of holding back. At that point, the power in her hands was already over a hundred times greater than what she had launched at Zeranus.

The truth soon dawned on Veldora.

“Right! Never mind! I can’t cancel that out!”

It was easy to understand why he gave up so quickly. Anyone with a pair of eyes could easily predict it’d cause the kind of destruction that had never been seen before in this key world. It’d certainly vaporize the Secret Tree, and maybe even the rest of the planet along the way. Feldway roared with laughter.

“Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! Wonderful. Wonderful, Milim! Now, unleash that blast and fulfill all my ambitions!”

Heeding the command, Milim fired Drago-Nova.
V22 OTL

This is:

1. In that Cardinal World/Key World (Slimereader= Cardinal World, OTL = Keyword, Localization), so characters that can tank attacks capable of space time destruction of other worlds not tanking it won't be a problem.
2. It can destroy the Sacred Tree, which even Feldway couldn't destroy as established in the first CRT despite Feldway being able to destroy the Universe of the Cardinal World and being unimaginably superior to the phantoms that can destroy weak worlds.

Second is this:

Diablo laughed. His terrifying smile struck fear into those who saw it.

“A thrill? You foolish—”

Feldway, seemingly uninterested in Diablo’s nonsense, struck first. The strike was so fast it could split stars in two, a slash so powerful it could have sliced Diablo in half and reduced him to dust.

This is once again a battle taking place in the Cardinal world, so the laws of the Cardinal world apply to it.

Third is this which collapsed Velgrynd's 8 Gate Formation (that isolates you in an Otherworld of Velgrynd's creation):

スイームは〝拡散歪曲量子砲〟を用いて、数多の星系を無に帰してきた。生命が誕生していれば別の遊びをするのだが、そうでなければ邪魔なだけだったからだ。

But even this was explained right after:

このタイミングでイヴァラージェからのプレゼントが、スイームへと届けられたのだ。 スイームは〝拡散歪曲量子砲〟を放ち終えるなり、人の姿に変化したのだった。 ヴェルグリンドが構築した〝八門堅陣〟が、内部の圧に耐えかねて崩壊したからだ。ヴェルグリンド自身を核としていなかった為に、強度面に脆弱性があった可能性はある。しかしそれでも、法則を無視するほどの異常現象が起きたのは、紛れもない事実であった。

(I'll ask these to be translated by raiki)
So:

1. The durability of this Otherworld Velgrynd created herself is not the same as what she usually creates, because she didn't use herself as a Core.
2. It has something to do with the "present" Velgrynd sent, which ignored the Laws.
3. Meaning Swim was able to break it cuz of Hax + Velgrynd didn't use it as normal, and it was stated to have less dura than usual.

If there's some other feat bothering you then you can bring that too.

---

Edit: Translations from @HakutoRei000 :

Suim used the “Diffuse Distortion Quantum Cannon” to return countless star systems to nothingness.

If life had arisen there, it would’ve played a different kind of game—but if not, they were nothing more than a nuisance.

At that moment, a “gift” from Ivarage was delivered to Suim.

Just after firing the “Diffuse Distortion Quantum Cannon,” Suim transformed into a human form. This happened because the “Eight-Gate Stronghold Formation” constructed by Velgrynd could no longer withstand the internal pressure and collapsed.

Since Velgrynd herself wasn’t used as the core, there may have been some weakness in its structural strength. Even so, the fact remains that an abnormal phenomenon occurred—one that seemed to ignore the laws themselves.

 

[Antvasima]

We could also, however, add a "6-B inside the Cardinal World, Low 2-C outside the Cardinal World"

I think that your solution of inside and outside of the cardinal world seems reasonable.

To be noted, this shouldn't have been discussed in isolation in the first place, because clearly, from an outsiders perspective, it's such an unintuitive proposition that is kinda crazy to be evaluated at all imo.

If the fact Cardinal World affects the rating proposed on this OP, all of the consequences of accepting this weird verse mechanism should've been included alongside it. We even have a rule about this fact.

But what's done is done, I suppose. I wouldn't attempt to invalidate an entire staff vote based on a lack of proper procedure, specially if its seemingly legit anyways.

And yes. If such mechanism actually exists, then that would indeed solve the entire issue.

@LephyrTheRevanchist @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @FinePoint @Planck69 @Random-Helper323 @SomebodyData @Reiner04

What do you think about this solution?

 

[Antvasima]

This would mean that all of the old justifications would have to be reinserted into the Tensura profile pages alongside the currently present new justifications.

 

[Elizhaa]

I think the current rating could still be fine; the cardinal world is way stronger than average while was strengthened to be stronger by a god tier and the average universe like our universe or one without much magic are weak; the justification of Low 2-C on the profiles should be updated further to mentioned to justifications text or explanation notes about cardinal world being stronger or linked to Tensura Cosmology Page (Light Novel) which should have cardinal world's justifications.
On the Tensura Cosmology Page (Light Novel), the cardinal world reason for durability should be get more justifications added why it more durable as it not really elaborated like those listed above by Astral with relevant scans added from the past accepted thread.

• Things are far harder to destroy in the Cardinal World.
• The Cardinal World has an extremely high concentration of magicules, thus making it harder to destroy.
• One of the branched world that Yuuki observed while in the World-Gap was thought to be completely unrelated to the cardinal world due to the amount of energy that observed Universe as a whole was giving off.
• The Laws of the Cardinal World differ from weak worlds and ordinary worlds, making the concept of 'strength' in the cardinal world far higher.
• It is created by Veldanava's (assumingly special) power.
• It is protected by the Heaven's Tower/Skyspire Tower and the Sacred/Divine Tree, which cannot be destroyed by Feldway's power that can destroy the Universe of the Cardinal World after the sacred tree was destroyed by Milim (from V22, we know that "Universe" refers to the bubble that is space and time itself, which will be discussed later as well), and can only be destroyed by Milim's Drago Nova, which can destroy the entire Cardinal World (or at least one of its Universes/Timelines, which is more narratively consistent).

 

[Antvasima]

To clarify, we would not remove the ratings for outside the cardinal world according to my above suggestion, just include the old accepted ratings for the statistics within it as well.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

To clarify, we would not remove the ratings for outside the cardinal world according to my above suggestion, just include the old accepted ratings for the statistics within it as well.

If the "outside the cardinal world" mechanic is accepted, I also have another suggestion to balance it out. How about adding a note to the cosmology blog that "beings that should be Low 2-C outside are weakened and become 6-B/6-A by the Laws of the World"?

It would only be fair if, in vs-matches, the stage is set to be the Cardinal World, then both sides should be under the World Laws that weaken them.

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This of course would only be acceptable if the prior suggestion is also accepted.

I personally don't mind either case, whether we go by the OP's original and Elizhaa's suggestion, or by the new suggestion. The voting is up to the staff.

Currently, the vote tally for this specific proposal is:

Option 1: Remains as is, and an explanation is added to the Cosmology Blog explaining how the Cardinal World is superior: Elizhaa

Option 2: We shifted to "Old tier inside the Cardinal World, Low 2-C outside" (+ the supplementary option I suggested): Antvasima

Option 1 only requires us to edit the cosmology blog one more time. Option 2 requires us to revert all the edits done so far and restrart the editing process.