Low Tier Marvel Comics Speed Revisions

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Spider-man is not a good example of any speed the guy is very inconsistent because of his popularity which means he shows up everywhere between gods or abstracts to street tiers. Overall Marvel treats Spider-man as very fast anywhere he goes most of the times implying Spider sense is a problem agaisnt anyone regardless of normal speeds, but if you go to Marvel official website Spiderman is listed as 3 in speed while mar-vell is a 7, Captain Marvel is a 5 so clerly they don't have any intention of keeping all at the same speed despite writers being inconsistent.

Unknown doesn't really make sense if the wiki won't be granting them a tier then anyone could just go to some random respect thread to see a list of feats instead of this wiki because it will be the very same thing.

While the characters relevant to this thread may have interacted with street tiers is in no way consistent to their usual levels.

Overall I think characters are often despicted in certain levels through their "Area of action" characters like Spider-man, Daredevil ect are usually "stuck" in a specific city or part of a city and anytime they want to travel somewhere else they need help, while others like Captain Marvel easily travel the world flying and even go to outer space, other like Thor, Silver Surfer go anywhere in the universe easily, not saying they should be somewhat limited or scaled simply for their travel speed but it's a distintion to limit who they scale to and with, otherwise everyone might as well scale to "Varies from human level to MFTL+" because they interacted with someone who interacted with... a street tier or an herald and above.

 

[The_Impress]

Spider-man is not a good example of any speed the guy is very inconsistent because of his popularity which means he shows up everywhere between gods or abstracts to street tiers. Overall Marvel treats Spider-man as very fast anywhere he goes most of the times implying Spider sense is a problem agaisnt anyone regardless of normal speeds, but if you go to Marvel official website Spiderman is listed as 3 in speed while mar-vell is a 7, Captain Marvel is a 5 so clerly they don't have any intention of keeping all at the same speed despite writers being inconsistent.

Suig that's handbook ratings, we don't treat them as valid :v

They list Rhino on the same strength level as Ultron (6) while Spider-Man is listed a 4, which is the same rating as Ghost Rider. Also they list Steve and Daredevil in the same tiering as 3 (which is also Spider-Man's durability), and they list speed as a whole, not separating them in flight speed or so.

Like you can argue separate consistencies maybe but using what is infamously one of the worst powerscaling systems ever put to paper is... a choice.

Unknown doesn't really make sense if the wiki won't be granting them a tier then anyone could just go to some random respect thread to see a list of feats instead of this wiki because it will be the very same thing.

Yeah what's the problem? :v Most of them are just genuinely not at any consistency I feel.

Overall I think characters are often despicted in certain levels through their "Area of action" characters like Spider-man, Daredevil ect are usually "stuck" in a specific city or part of a city and anytime they want to travel somewhere else they need help, while others like Captain Marvel easily travel the world flying and even go to outer space, other like Thor, Silver Surfer go anywhere in the universe easily, not saying they should be somewhat limited or scaled simply for their travel speed but it's a distintion to limit who they scale to and with, otherwise everyone might as well scale to "Varies from human level to MFTL+" because they interacted with someone who interacted with... a street tier or an herald and above.

Like I am going to be blunt, what are the selection of feats you guys have so far that are not just travel feats and also have combat relevance? I can check them I suppose, so we can clear up this consistency question

 

[The_Impress]

Also funnily enough I think a big limiter here is how terribly keyed some of our pages like Carol and Thor are, if they were keyed better maybe we would've had a better time arguing this.

 

[Excellence616]

I don't agree with making up mechanics that don't exist and even if you pretended this one did it wouldn't be consistent.

Well, the likes of Hulk, Thor, Sentry varies in AP and Speed.

This sounds really stupid.

It doesn't. Quicksilver at times gets tagged by someone with low speed. Heck Peter once tagged Quicksilver and he is a speedster.

I honestly don't hate this but I don't think people will like this and I wouldn't push for it.

But also you're just ignoring the much more obvious fourth option of "consider the speed feats outliers given there's clear scaling to street tiers here". We don't have to always chase the biggest number, sometimes the more accurate choice is the one that reflects the verse's portrayal and the verse's portrayal is plainly that these people aren't super fast in terms of combat speed. Marvel isn't Dragon Ball where being stronger also makes you faster and there's trillions of showings of high-power character getting surprised or hit by low tiers' attacks.

Street tiers tag High tiers who are fast. Even DC face this sometimes, where characters that are portrayed to be fast are tag or get their attacks dodged by street or slower characters. It just writers inconsistency. Being stronger doesn't makes you fast but Marvel do love to give their strong characters impressive speed feats and later make them look bad to street level. Hence why Varying and PIS should be considered.

Are we going to say that a street tier is faster than Carol or Black Bolt who can fly and fight at FTL speeds just because in a crossover or team-up she was tagged by them or some low level villains or make her Unknown?

We are using Street tier to cap consistent speed rating for Low tier which shouldn't be the case. I thought we know better than to treat cases like this as outlier for the street tiers. It just shows inconsistency of Low Tier rather than Street Tier being that fast.

 

[The_Impress]

Like I am going to be blunt, what are the selection of feats you guys have so far that are not just travel feats and also have combat relevance? I can check them I suppose, so we can clear up this consistency question

Because looking at the OP at a glance, I am less-than-impressed at the selection

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Suig that's handbook ratings, we don't treat them as valid :v

I'm not scaling them based on that I'm saying that Marvel doesn't consider them as havign equal speed despite not being "speedsters", those ratings don't even say what version of the character they are scaling since Captain Marvel and Mar-vell have had multiple boosts over the years so they are not usable regardless, but it shows some intent from Marvel that the "all have similar speed" is not quite true.

Yeah what's the problem? :v Most of them are just genuinely not at any consistency I feel.

Different rom Spider-man who has a problem of being "overpopular" other characters don't have as many anti feats as that and way less "street tier stuff" Literally as Carol stating she doesn't even know what to do with a normal street robber because she doesn't do that

Like I am going to be blunt, what are the selection of feats you guys have so far that are not just travel feats and also have combat relevance? I can check them I suppose, so we can clear up this consistency question

We already argued this over and they have reasons to scale to their "travel speed", and Rex made other arguments for other characters as well

Spent the whole weekend playing the new life is strange.

I can't really take much time now to go get the scans.
I can't speak for all the characters there, but Carol I know very well, I could go around and pick a bunch of times where she fights while flying because a huge part of her plot is her love for flying which results with her flying 90% of the time she is fighting, it doesn't really make any sense whatsoever to differenciate that for Carol.
Rex brought up the "scaling to flight speed" I sent him the 4 feats that he showed in the OP

I also sent him this one for Mar-vell which also ends up being one for Super Skrull as well
Mar-Vell flying in space while dodging attacks from Super Skrull who was after him

If you insist there needs to be more evidence I will try to find more but only by tuesday, I will keep up with the discussion anyways.

All the scans I brought up either straight up say or imply she is moving at a really high speed during a fight, all of those emphasize her speed.

We do have a way.
First scan she literally states she is at her utmost speed, you have a weird interpretation of this but she is literally describing what she was doing as I have already said earlier
Second Scan she states "My only advantages are my speed and my agility-- but even I can't keep this pace forever" clearly emphasizing how she is going fast to the point where she can't keep it for long usually meaning top speeds which no one can keep for long time, it is also states by her and the narrator that any mistake she makes can kill her so she is fighting for her life.
Third scan , she states that Tiger Shark has lightning reactions for catching her feet while she is still taking off which means she reached that acceleration in less than 2 meter.
Fourth scan she is stating she needs to move fast because she is fighting to protect someone who is getting hurt as a hero it's a basic assumption that she is going at her top speed since she has a clear good reason to do so.

One of the feats calced is when she found an opening during a fight which she uses to push him through multiple buildings before taking him to space and the whole way up the skrull was hitting her so it's not like she was moving faster than he could react to.

I can also bring up that while in a fight she was moving relative to objects moving at light speed fighting while the objects are still going up

Her modern version is scaling MFTL+ from a feat where during a fight they moved light years none of her versions have a big different between flight and combat speed.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Also funnily enough I think a big limiter here is how terribly keyed some of our pages like Carol and Thor are, if they were keyed better maybe we would've had a better time arguing this.

Carol is very well keyed I made sure of that, my thread even clarifies the keys by reason and year, it's better keyed than most other marvel pages.

 

[Armorchompy]

Well, the likes of Hulk, Thor, Sentry varies in AP and Speed.

Thor doesn't vary, and Sentry's low speed ends are when he's not even empowered, when he is he's a "Low tier" as you guys call them at worst.

It doesn't. Quicksilver at times gets tagged by someone with low speed. Heck Peter once tagged Quicksilver and he is a speedster.

A character normally blitzing people and occasionally having an anti-feat isn't the same as people being consistently slow.

Street tiers tag High tiers who are fast. Even DC face this sometimes, where characters that are portrayed to be fast are tag or get their attacks dodged by street or slower characters. It just writers inconsistency. Being stronger doesn't makes you fast but Marvel do love to give their strong characters impressive speed feats and later make them look bad to street level. Hence why Varying and PIS should be considered.

Right but why are the low-end showings the PIS ones? To me if a character is consistently unimpressive in combat speed but just so happens to fly fast the latter is the one that's less contextually relevant for combat speed.

Are we going to say that a street tier is faster than Carol or Black Bolt who can fly and fight at FTL speeds just because in a crossover or team-up she was tagged by them or some low level villains or make her Unknown?

No, because Carol and Black Bolt can't fight at FTL speeds.

We are using Street tier to cap consistent speed rating for Low tier which shouldn't be the case.

I haven't heard a good argument as to why we shouldn't.

 

[Rgerdeena]

Thor doesn't vary, and Sentry's low speed ends are when he's not even empowered, when he is he's a "Low tier" as you guys call them at worst.

Thor does vary, he has nearly a half dozen varies mechanics and his profile is going to get revamped soon, sentry being a low tier at worst isn’t something you can prove and is just what’s on the profile because the person who made it couldn’t find lower showings

Right but why are the low-end showings the PIS ones? To me if a character is consistently unimpressive in combat speed but just so happens to fly fast the latter is the one that's less contextually relevant for combat speed.

the low end showings are the PIS because generally fights and stuff affects the plot more then flying to space does, and your argument about flight speed vs combat speed doesn’t really work when the character is able to react to their own flight speed as multiple people in this thread have already proven

 

[Armorchompy]

Thor does vary, he has nearly a half dozen varies mechanics and his profile is going to get revamped soon, sentry being a low tier at worst isn’t something you can prove and is just what’s on the profile because the person who made it couldn’t find lower showings

And until those profiles get changed this doesn't really matter.

the low end showings are the PIS because generally fights and stuff affects the plot more then flying to space does

If combat feats are more plot-relevant than random flying speed feats, that means they take precedence. Thor crossing a billion light years in a minute isn't as relevant as the fact that he's been tagged by literally two thirds of the marvel verse atp.

and your argument about flight speed vs combat speed doesn’t really work when the character is able to react to their own flight speed as multiple people in this thread have already proven

They've argued it, they certainly haven't proven it.

 

[Rgerdeena]

And until those profiles get changed this doesn't really matter.

Thor has a varies accepted on his profile anyways so you can’t even argue he doesn’t vary if that’s the mindset we’re going for, and how in the world do you expect sentry to get updated when that’s just a hypothetical tier that he could operate at with no total contradiction, genuinely don’t understand how you expect sentry to get updated

If combat feats are more plot-relevant than random flying speed feats, that means they take precedence. Thor crossing a billion light years in a minute isn't as relevant as the fact that he's been tagged by literally two thirds of the marvel verse atp.

What I’m saying is that PIS is the feats and anti feats that exist for plot reasons which would be the fights not the flying most of the time, there’s a reason that there’s a page for plot induced stupidity not lack of plot induced stupidity or somethings, something being plot relevant doesn’t automatically make it more accurate to the character’s capabilities and normally makes it less accurate

They've argued it, they certainly haven't proven it.

Agree to disagree

 

[Armorchompy]

Thor has a varies accepted on his profile anyways so you can’t even argue he doesn’t vary if that’s the mindset we’re going for, and how in the world do you expect sentry to get updated when that’s just a hypothetical tier that he could operate at with no total contradiction, genuinely don’t understand how you expect sentry to get updated

"Could" yes, "does" not really. And Thor's varies puts him at MFTL+ at his lowest.

What I’m saying is that PIS is the feats and anti feats that exist for plot reasons which would be the fights not the flying most of the time, there’s a reason that there’s a page for plot induced stupidity not lack of plot induced stupidity or somethings, something being plot relevant doesn’t automatically make it more accurate to the character’s capabilities and normally makes it less accurate

Why is it plot-induced stupidity if it's consistent? You're taking stuff that isn't even meant to scale to reactions and saying it takes precedence over how characters are shown to behave in fights like 95% of the time. It's a conclusion you can only reach if you're trying to come at this from a "how can I justify splitting the speed scaling" perspective rather than just looking at the facts.

 

[Rgerdeena]

"Could" yes, "does" not really. And Thor's varies puts him at MFTL+ at his lowest.

There’s no contradiction generated from them having lower speed ratings added and therefore whether or not those speed ratings are accepted is irrelevant especially since what we are actively discussing is those anti feats that would cause them to have a lower speed rating, if you disagree then agree to disagree

Why is it plot-induced stupidity if it's consistent? You're taking stuff that isn't even meant to scale to reactions and saying it takes precedence over how characters are shown to behave in fights like 95% of the time. It's a conclusion you can only reach if you're trying to come at this from a "how can I justify splitting the speed scaling" perspective rather than just looking at the facts.

It’s plot induced stupidity because it’s because of plot, you can’t argue that something that has almost nothing to do with plot is PLOT induced stupidity, you can argue that something that largely affects plot is plot induced stupidity

 

[Antvasima]

We treat speed as a variable (or functionally variable) for most mainline characters, treating it under an unsaid exhaustion mechanic, this I believe is a proposal getting floated around already? That makes every character's speed freefall to their own feats or if there is a consistency: more concentrated scaling nets, if we apply our usual scrutiny for cross-scale

This seems rather reasonable to me.

 

[Antvasima]

Like you can argue separate consistencies maybe but using what is infamously one of the worst powerscaling systems ever put to paper is... a choice.

It isn't just a bad system that is irrationally obsessed with the number 100 tons. Tom Brevoort just quickly made up ratings on the fly based on old memories and personal biases, without further investigations, regardless if it made any sense or not.

For example, Thor has withstood attacks from cosmic entities, but only received a 6 in durability, and only received the same combat skill rating as the Hulk, despite hundreds of thousands of years of combat experience and that Skurge/Executioner received a 6, and you yourself mentioned all of the incoherence of Spider-Man villains.

 

[Armorchompy]

This seems rather reasonable to me.

No offense Ant but this proposal allows any upgrade to go through without care for consistency or anti-feats, given it's functionally carte blanche to disregard any inconsistency in portrayal in favor of the highest possible rating.

 

[The_Impress]

I will respond to some of the threads I am active in, in a bit if it's fine. beeg workload and i assume people on the threads would prefer so as well

 

[Antvasima]

No offense Ant but this proposal allows any upgrade to go through without care for consistency or anti-feats, given it's functionally carte blanche to disregard any inconsistency in portrayal in favor of the highest possible rating.

Well, my impression right now is that we only assign the highest possible ratings and that's it, without taking incknsistencies into account. I was thinking of a system that does not automatically scale, for example, Count Nefaria from Thor just because Thor was severely depowered for Nefaria to be able to match him, and so onwards.

 

[Armorchompy]

Well, my impression right now is that we only assign the highest possible ratings and that's it, without taking incknsistencies into account. I was thinking of a system that does not automatically scale, for example, Count Nefaria from Thor just because Thor was severely depowered for Nefaria to be able to match him, and so onwards.

That wouldn't scale under any system. And I don't think you're right in believing that because if we say characters can vary in speed, nothing's stopping people from scaling Spider-Man to heralds at his peak, speed-wise.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I was hoping that we can word our rules in the exact opposite direction, meaning that Spider-Man is able to match the speed of heralds due to their speeds being enormously downgraded for the sake of plot induced stupidity/everybody can fight everybody storytelling reasons.

 

[Armorchompy]

that Spider-Man is able to match the speed of heralds due to their speeds being enormously downgraded for the sake of plot induced stupidity/everybody can fight everybody storytelling reasons.

This is already how we treat it. Changing standards won't benefit that, it's just going to add a way for people to "cheat" in high ratings for characters we don't scrutinize well enough. What Zark suggested is basically pretending the characters have a canon "Varies" mechanic, not accounting for PIS.

 

[The_Impress]

I still think the Unknown scaling is fundamentally better and forces people to actually put in the work on the speed sections. And who knows maybe if we do it for enough characters we can get a new consistency trends and patterns afterall.

I don't get why it's controversial if you think about it, like you're still able to represent a character, it's just the ambiguity caused by scaling that is causing issues, and unless we have enough feats from everyone we can't really objectively get a rating.

So as a temp solution I think the Unknown thing is valid. Maybe even perma, we'll see

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I still think the Unknown scaling is fundamentally better and forces people to actually put in the work on the speed sections. And who knows maybe if we do it for enough characters we can get a new consistency trends and patterns afterall.

I don't get why it's controversial if you think about it, like you're still able to represent a character, it's just the ambiguity caused by scaling that is causing issues, and unless we have enough feats from everyone we can't really objectively get a rating.

So as a temp solution I think the Unknown thing is valid. Maybe even perma, we'll see

How are we supposed to "put in the work on the speed sections" if just because they interacted with street tiers here and there they would be counted as "inconsistent"

 

[M3X_2.0]

How are we supposed to "put in the work on the speed sections" if just because they interacted with street tiers here and there they would be counted as "inconsistent"

I wonder who’s trying to change this

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I wonder who’s trying to change this

If it's about your thread I didn't say anything because it's staff thread, but I agree with some of your points.

 

[M3X_2.0]

If it's about your thread I didn't say anything because it's staff thread, but I agree with some of your points.

No it’s not idk why people think that!!!!!

 

[The_Impress]

How are we supposed to "put in the work on the speed sections" if just because they interacted with street tiers here and there they would be counted as "inconsistent"

just list everything, be honest, and you can derive a consistency from that. I don't even get the street tier problem personally, you can get contradictions in the same issues and runs usually, imo.

I kinda vouch for more pages to be written like Saman or Confluctor as opposed to the standard for scrutiny we have now, even though admittedly it is more difficult to work with.

So yeah just, feat compendium at the end that you link to, from which the user can derive their own consistency, for now.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Wait! I've got an idea!

How about we give "possibly" ratings to the characters I apparently mistakenly called "low tiers" until someone sorts the who-scales-to-whom thing?

 

[The_Impress]

Like if you guys are doing this whole "everyone scales to everyone speed mash up", that's what, 400ish characters on the wiki at present? Do you know how many feats you need to claim a consistency there?

Like I am lowkey baffled how you guys even have it at whatever tier it is right now.

So yeah I don't even particularly vibe with the whole Low-tier, High-tier split or whatever you guys have going. It's either inducing some variability mechanism or just everyone scales to their own feats and no cross-scaling period, imo.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Not sure if it's directed at me, but I'll respond.

Like if you guys are doing this whole "everyone scales to everyone speed mash up", that's what, 400ish characters on the wiki at present? Do you know how many feats you need to claim a consistency there?

I never advocated for that, quite the opposite actually.

So yeah I don't even particularly vibe with the whole Low-tier, High-tier split or whatever you guys have going.

I'm describing how the wiki treats different guys in Marvel's power hierarchy. 9-Bs/9-As up to High 8-Cs are called "street tiers", heralds are considered anywhere from 3-C to High 3-A, then skyfathers are Tier 1. Where does the rest of the verse fall, like Black Bolt of Mar-vell? Lower than everyone that's not a street tier? Well, I'll call that a "Low Tier".

 

[The_Impress]

I never advocated for that, quite the opposite actually.

Yeah even high-tier/low-tier categorizations are alot of files, no? 300+ each?

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Yeah even high-tier/low-tier is alot of files, no?

In a way, sure. Point still stands.

 

[The_Impress]

Yeah so how is it even that better than whatever Armor is proposing? Or anyone else is proposing? As I see it you guys don't have the number of feats for the 400 or the 700.

How is 0.672c (201452709 ms) getting proposed in the same consistency as mach 31 (10633)? That's like a x19k range. What rating are you even proposing? You have 3 for sub-rel, and 3 for sub-rel+

That's what, 1 feat per 100 characters? Conservative estimate

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

just list everything, be honest, and you can derive a consistency from that. I don't even get the street tier problem personally, you can get contradictions in the same issues and runs usually, imo.

I kinda vouch for more pages to be written like Saman or Confluctor as opposed to the standard for scrutiny we have now, even though admittedly it is more difficult to work with.

So yeah just, feat compendium at the end that you link to, from which the user can derive their own consistency, for now.

I do my own search through every appearances before making a profile, I put a lot of scans in my imgur but I'm not counting everytime the character breaks a door or a wall when those feats are done casually and has much higher feats, same case for speed and all that.
Overall is pretty hard to scale the speed of this characters in comics because they have little actually calculable feats duo to lacking time-frames and distances, laser feats are hardly usable since we have to prove they fall into the requirements for light speed, a lot of this characters are "invulnerable" so it's not like not dodging bullets is an anti feats, most of their villains either use some alien advanced technology with e edgy beams of unknown speed or are alien/superhuman in with little scaling/statements or even appearances to be worth making a page or consistent scaling for.
To be fair with this specific thread no one here has brought any anti feats.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Yeah so how is it even that better than whatever Armor is proposing? Or anyone else is proposing? As I see it you guys don't have the number of feats for the 400 or the 700.

How is 0.672c (201452709 ms) getting proposed in the same consistency as mach 31 (10633)? That's like a x19k range. What rating are you even proposing? You have 3 for sub-rel, and 3 for sub-rel+

That's what, 1 feat per 100 characters? Conservative estimate

I'm listing out feats to make a case that the current rating is lower than many of their feats, I think Sub-Rel is reasonable and the rest can be supporting feats, but that ultimately doesn't matter to me.

Every single verse works this way, with one main rating and several supporting feats.

 

[Eseseso]

Every single verse works this way, with one main rating and several supporting feats.

THIS, thank you!

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Yeah so how is it even that better than whatever Armor is proposing? Or anyone else is proposing? As I see it you guys don't have the number of feats for the 400 or the 700.

How is 0.672c (201452709 ms) getting proposed in the same consistency as mach 31 (10633)? That's like a x19k range. What rating are you even proposing? You have 3 for sub-rel, and 3 for sub-rel+

That's what, 1 feat per 100 characters? Conservative estimate

The problem is not if this feats are consistent with the character who made them it's who should and shouldn't scale to it, characters with many inconsistencies/anti feats to the feats presented simply would not scale so instead of limiting all characters because of some the wiki limits some and let the others have their feats.
If you want to discuss which characters should and shouldn't scale sure let's go deep with it but question a calc on the bases of some being inconsistent seems to be counter productive and just leads to everyone being unknown or being wrongly scaled.

 

[The_Impress]

I'm listing out feats to make a case that the current rating is lower than many of their feats, I think Sub-Rel is reasonable and the rest can be supporting feats,

How is an MHS+ a supporting feat to a Sub-Rel+?

Every single verse works this way, with one main rating and several supporting feats.

Yeah but every single verse doesn't have hundreds of writers and artists and thousands of characters, is the issue :V.

When a speed feat scales to 20 characters written by the same person who usually has a static understanding of a character's tiering that's more understandable.

When a speed feat scales to 100 characters written by different people who just only have an option to refer to a single digit or their own biases, and different understandings of a character's tiering amongst them.

Owing to the medium and narrative structure/setpieces in general, AP tends to be more iconic (If this be my or the ending of Spider-Man 1990s), writers tend to have a more static grasp of what characters do, and you have the idea of natural convergeance or tiering based on strength class (which btw AP how we treat it is still flawed and we do actually need way more feats for exery tier and more stratified scaling, but as said imo that should be done through research and not some ruleset.)

And as said I think most people on the wiki blow at speed ratings in general, but we should contrast Marvel to comparable verses. The comparable verses to Marvel are DC () and what used to exist: SCP, and SCP had very stratified speed ratings despite having convergent tiers.

I do my own search through every appearances before making a profile, I put a lot of scans in my imgur but I'm not counting everytime the character breaks a door or a wall when those feats are done casually and has much higher feats, same case for speed and all that.
Overall is pretty hard to scale the speed of this characters in comics because they have little actually calculable feats duo to lacking time-frames and distances, laser feats are hardly usable since we have to prove they fall into the requirements for light speed, a lot of this characters are "invulnerable" so it's not like not dodging bullets is an anti feats, most of their villains either use some alien advanced technology with e edgy beams of unknown speed or are alien/superhuman in with little scaling/statements or even appearances to be worth making a page or consistent scaling for.

Ye I follow but y'know, shifting goalposts. If we are planning on "fixing" something it would naturally lead to more work, unfortunately.

 

[The_Impress]

The problem is not if this feats are consistent with the character who made them it's who should and shouldn't scale to it, characters with many inconsistencies/anti feats to the feats presented simply would not scale so instead of limiting all characters because of some the wiki limits some and let the others have their feats.
If you want to discuss which characters should and shouldn't scale sure let's go deep with it but question a calc on the bases of some being inconsistent seems to be counter productive and just leads to everyone being unknown or being wrongly scaled.

I genuinely don't see the problem on them being unknown until we have enough feats for a compendium, is the thing.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

How is an MHS+ a supporting feat to a Sub-Rel+?

The difference between then is only at most 100x instead of untold thousands. I don't think you want to hold the standard that supporting feats need to be the exact same tier as the main rating.

Yeah but every single verse doesn't have hundreds of writers and artists and thousands of characters, is the issue :V.

That doesn't change how we treat main ratings versus supporting feats.