Hazbin Hotel Discussion Thread

[Alexander]

Guys who use guns in 80% of their fights ending up at Supersonic is really that bad?

Not like the guns are EXPLOSIVE GUNS SOMEHOW (or that Emily is able to make a ball be on fire by hitting it hard enough), they aren't normal guns in any way.
Like how much power does a normal gun generate?

The reason they were supersonic back in my first downgrade thread was because their bullet timing had no calcs but now they do (Besisdes the robo fizz one where it caught a bullet with it's mouth) and i didn't want them only to be subsonic from pilot speed feats.
This is a good thing. With everyone not ftl, speed calcs can get more attention.

Oh yeah sure.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

like, getting speed calcs reviewed is basically a slog rn cuz everyone and their mother is FTL.
Like, i've been mainly having to request Rusty to look at calcs and hope they will since Drite won't since they're not priority 1 or 2...cuz everyone's ftl

 

[DarkLock92]

like, getting speed calcs reviewed is basically a slog rn cuz everyone and their mother is FTL.
Like, i've been mainly having to request Rusty to look at calcs and hope they will since Drite won't since they're not priority 1 or 2...cuz everyone's ftl

You want to remove FTL because it's inconsistent and makes reviewing speed calcs slower.

I want to remove FTL so that the character's travel speed won't be screwed by speed equalization.

We are not the same

 

[Mythic381]

It's a video, not an image

Okay?

The scene itself shows Heaven outside Sera's barrier as she creates it.

It's just showing the creation of it. I don't see the point of "Heaven outside the barrier" that's just irrelevant.

And I'm not going to explain why Heaven is below the Red Pentagram when that's shown in the series several times.

You do. We don't see it from Heaven's perspective that it's below the Red Pentagram. Just leads me to believe it's a distancing issue.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

Okay?

It's just showing the creation of it. I don't see the point of "Heaven outside the barrier" that's just irrelevant.

You do. We don't see it from Heaven's perspective that it's below the Red Pentagram. Just leads me to believe it's a distancing issue.

The barrier that surrounds Heaven covers the starry Heaven and is visible from Heaven itself to both winners and sinners. From the moment a barrier covering most of Heaven does not cover the supposed starry Heaven within Heaven, it means that that starry Heaven is not in Heaven, but rather is actually the Starry Heaven of the Pride Ring. And using the argument that Heaven is a different color when Heaven explicitly has its own light doesn't make sense. It's similar to me saying that the daytime sky is different from the nighttime sky on Earth because it's blue; that's just illumination.

The Pentagram is explicitly larger than Heaven, so it makes sense that depending on where you are in Heaven, you might not be able to see the Red Pentagram properly, especially considering the Kingdom's own illumination. It makes no sense to ignore all the other various scenes where, from the perspective of a Sinner below Heaven, having a broader view, the Pentagram appears clearly larger. To make matters worse, we also have the top-down view at the end of the song "Stayed Gone" (which is the first image from Imgur that I sent) that shows a simplified appearance of the Pentagram from above, showing the districts and their main locations, and explicitly Heaven and the Pentagram Moon below the red Pentagram.

 

[Alexander]

The barrier that surrounds Heaven covers the starry Heaven and is visible from Heaven itself to both winners and sinners. From the moment a barrier covering most of Heaven does not cover the supposed starry Heaven within Heaven, it means that that starry Heaven is not in Heaven, but rather is actually the Starry Heaven of the Pride Ring. And using the argument that Heaven is a different color when Heaven explicitly has its own light doesn't make sense. It's similar to me saying that the daytime sky is different from the nighttime sky on Earth because it's blue; that's just illumination.

The Pentagram is explicitly larger than Heaven, so it makes sense that depending on where you are in Heaven, you might not be able to see the Red Pentagram properly, especially considering the Kingdom's own illumination. It makes no sense to ignore all the other various scenes where, from the perspective of a Sinner below Heaven, having a broader view, the Pentagram appears clearly larger. To make matters worse, we also have the top-down view at the end of the song "Stayed Gone" (which is the first image from Imgur that I sent) that shows a simplified appearance of the Pentagram from above, showing the districts and their main locations, and explicitly Heaven and the Pentagram Moon below the red Pentagram.

Or you know the pentagram is probably just a visual effect of the show and it means absolutely nothing in general.
Why would Heaven be smaller than Hell?there is no narrative support for that.

 

[Mythic381]

The barrier that surrounds Heaven covers the starry Heaven and is visible from Heaven itself to both winners and sinners.

It covers all of Heaven except their clouds. I don't see the relevant part to it being under the pentagram.

From the moment a barrier covering most of Heaven does not cover the supposed starry Heaven within Heaven, it means that that starry Heaven is not in Heaven, but rather is actually the Starry Heaven of the Pride Ring

Just like how the pentagram isn't in Hell, but is above Hell in it's sky. I don't get what you're trying to prove here. I don't even understand what you mean by "Starry Heaven of the Pride ring" The whole argument stems from Heaven itself not having the same literal sky of Hell, and not even showing the pentagram when it literally pans up.

And using the argument that Heaven is a different color when Heaven explicitly has its own light doesn't make sense. It's similar to me saying that the daytime sky is different from the nighttime sky on Earth because it's blue; that's just illumination.

Point is of their distance. We know why Earth has a blue sky. In this case, Heaven has yellow/blue sky, while Hell has a red sky, with the pentagram above Hell being red. Yet, Heaven lacks it all.

The Pentagram is explicitly larger than Heaven, so it makes sense that depending on where you are in Heaven, you might not be able to see the Red Pentagram properly, especially considering the Kingdom's own illumination.

We go to multiple different areas in Heaven. We even see the camera panning up, and even see Heaven itself from a far. We never see the Red Pentagram.

It makes no sense to ignore all the other various scenes where, from the perspective of a Sinner below Heaven, having a broader view, the Pentagram appears clearly larger.

Because you're talking as if it's some impossible phenomena, when it's not. It's not like we don't see cosmic bodies as if they're inside our sky, when they're clearly larger.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

Or you know the pentagram is probably just a visual effect of the show and it means absolutely nothing in general.
Why would Heaven be smaller than Hell?there is no narrative support for that.

Hell is much more populated than Heaven, which is, sort of, the reason for the exterminations in the first season, and the near-war in the second.

 

[Alexander]

Hell is much more populated than Heaven, which is, sort of, the reason for the exterminations in the first season, and the near-war in the second.

It is because of the numbers, not because of the lack of space, it is never said in the show that the problem is that Hell is lacking in space

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

it's also never said Heaven has more space.
A VA statement that isn't commemorated by Vivziepop or the show means nothing.

 

[DarkLock92]

it's also never said Heaven has more space.
A VA statement that isn't commemorated by Vivziepop or the show means nothing.

*corroborated

 

[Alexander]

it's also never said Heaven has more space.
A VA statement that isn't commemorated by Vivziepop or the show means nothing.

It was a official interview, what will be the reason to make a interview with the VA if at the end it means nothing?

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

It covers all of Heaven except their clouds. I don't see the relevant part to it being under the pentagram.

Just like how the pentagram isn't in Hell, but is above Hell in it's sky. I don't get what you're trying to prove here. I don't even understand what you mean by "Starry Heaven of the Pride ring" The whole argument stems from Heaven itself not having the same literal sky of Hell, and not even showing the pentagram when it literally pans up.

Point is of their distance. We know why Earth has a blue sky. In this case, Heaven has yellow/blue sky, while Hell has a red sky, with the pentagram above Hell being red. Yet, Heaven lacks it all.

We go to multiple different areas in Heaven. We even see the camera panning up, and even see Heaven itself from a far. We never see the Red Pentagram.

Because you're talking as if it's some impossible phenomena, when it's not. It's not like we don't see cosmic bodies as if they're inside our sky, when they're clearly larger.

To reiterate, Heaven has its own illumination; that's the only reason Heaven's sky is blue/yellow. There's nothing to indicate that Heaven has those stars, and the scene of Sera covering Heaven with shields, except for the clouds, makes it clear that the stars don't belong to Heaven.

Heaven is a planet; you can go to various locations in the US and still see the same stars because that distance on a planetary scale is irrelevant.

To say that the Pentagram above Pentagram City is not part of Hell only shows how nonsensical the arguments have to be to support Heaven being a universe.

It's not impossible that Heaven has a starry sky, just extremely improbable and unfounded.

 

[DarkLock92]

To reiterate, Heaven has its own illumination; that's the only reason Heaven's sky is blue/yellow. There's nothing to indicate that Heaven has those stars, and the scene of Sera covering Heaven with shields, except for the clouds, makes it clear that the stars don't belong to Heaven.

Heaven is a planet; you can go to various locations in the US and still see the same stars because that distance on a planetary scale is irrelevant.

To say that the Pentagram above Pentagram City is not part of Hell only shows how nonsensical the arguments have to be to support Heaven being a universe.

It's not impossible that Heaven has a starry sky, just extremely improbable and unfounded.

Agreed. People should just be patient and wait until future seasons for more potential evidence.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

It was a official interview, what will be the reason to make a interview with the VA if at the end it means nothing?

The question for the voice actress was how Heaven would deal with the redeeming sinners and its overpopulation; she said it was because Heaven is larger. In another interview, Vivzie herself said she would address how Heaven would deal with this later, indicating that the answer isn't so simple. And what the show portrays is more important than a voice actress's statement if it isn't corroborated.

 

[Alexander]

The question for the voice actress was how Heaven would deal with the redeeming sinners and its overpopulation; she said it was because Heaven is larger. In another interview, Vivzie herself said she would address how Heaven would deal with this later, indicating that the answer isn't so simple. And what the show portrays is more important than a voice actress's statement if it isn't corroborated.

Oh but if it is digital circus, everyone basically agrees with whatever Alex says about Caine.
Fine.

 

[Mythic381]

To reiterate, Heaven has its own illumination; that's the only reason Heaven's sky is blue/yellow. There's nothing to indicate that Heaven has those stars,

The color of the sky is not important. I only mentioned it because the Pentagram itself emits red light, even being more clear in the pentagram from the moon.

and the scene of Sera covering Heaven with shields, except for the clouds, makes it clear that the stars don't belong to Heaven.

How is the stars even relevant to this? Also why would Sera even need to cover the clouds or the stars? The point here is to simply cover the Heaven-sphere so no one can leave or enter. The clouds and stars are irrelevant.

Heaven is a planet; you can go to various locations in the US and still see the same stars because that distance on a planetary scale is irrelevant.

Point here is that we can see cosmic bodies as if they're inside our sky, when they're in fact larger than Earth. (Sun for example)

To say that the Pentagram above Pentagram City is not part of Hell only shows how nonsensical the arguments have to be to support Heaven being a universe.

Being above something apparently means it isn't part of it? I never said that, I simply said that the Pentagram is above Hell.

It's not impossible that Heaven has a starry sky, just extremely improbable and unfounded.

What? I never argued that it didn't have a starry sky.

I also don't get why this image is even used as proof that Heaven is below the Pentagram. The Heaven in question is very far away that it can technically even be seen as outside of it.

 

[DarkLock92]

Oh but if it is digital circus, everyone basically agrees with whatever Alex says about Caine.
Fine.

I mean, a VA talking about a character they play and how they played them isn't the same as a VA talking about a location in the show they don't have anything to do with

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

Oh but if it is digital circus, everyone basically agrees with whatever Alex says about Caine.
Fine.

I might be mistaken, but in TADC, Goose corroborated with the voice actor, right?

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

The color of the sky is not important. I only mentioned it because the Pentagram itself emits red light, even being more clear in the pentagram from the moon.

How is the stars even relevant to this? Also why would Sera even need to cover the clouds or the stars? The point here is to simply cover the Heaven-sphere so no one can leave or enter. The clouds and stars are irrelevant.

Point here is that we can see cosmic bodies as if they're inside our sky, when they're in fact larger than Earth. (Sun for example)

Being above something apparently means it isn't part of it? I never said that, I simply said that the Pentagram is above Hell.

What? I never argued that it didn't have a starry sky.

I also don't get why this image is even used as proof that Heaven is below the Pentagram. The Heaven in question is very far away that it can technically even be seen as outside of it.

You were literally using the color in the sky as justification for the starry sky being from Heaven.

Without the starry sky, there is nothing to prove that Heaven is anything more than a planet.

I misunderstood the part about the Pentagram, although that doesn't change the fact that the space where Heaven is located is the Pride Ring.

If you're not actually using that as an argument, what are we discussing?

Because it is an open scene, showing Heaven and the Pentagram Moon below the red Pentagram (which is "behind them"), and showing Heaven and the Moon as smaller than the Pentagram City, similar (but not identical) to a Flat Earth model.

To be clear, although the show's visuals suggest that Pentagram City is larger than Heaven, I don't think it's wrong to assume it's only large enough to house 100 million inhabitants for now; I'm just showing this to highlight that the show portrays Heaven as something within Hell itself.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

We're already on page 271 of the discussion thread, do you think we can get 300 before the middle of the year?

 

[DarkLock92]

We're already on page 271 of the discussion thread, do you think we can get 300 before the middle of the year?

Certainly

 

[Mythic381]

You were literally using the color in the sky as justification for the starry sky being from Heaven.

I don't get why you keep mentioning "starry sky" when I was only talking about the sky color specifically. I mentioned it's red. It's red likely due to the Pentagram's red-light emitting.

Without the starry sky, there is nothing to prove that Heaven is anything more than a planet.

What? The argument in question is that Heaven itself is universe-sized.

I misunderstood the part about the Pentagram, although that doesn't change the fact that the space where Heaven is located is the Pride Ring.

It's not.

If you're not actually using that as an argument, what are we discussing?

Pretty sure you're the one who mentioned "starry sky" when I only talked about sky color.

Because it is an open scene, showing Heaven and the Pentagram Moon below the red Pentagram (which is "behind them"), and showing Heaven and the Moon as smaller than the Pentagram City, similar (but not identical) to a Flat Earth model.

I pretty much see the Heaven-sphere in question being behind the Pentagram, rather than inside it.

To be clear, although the show's visuals suggest that Pentagram City is larger than Heaven, I don't think it's wrong to assume it's only large enough to house 100 million inhabitants for now; I'm just showing this to highlight that the show portrays Heaven as something within Hell itself.

It was 100 billion.

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

Just to give my reasoning for heaven being a separate universe, when in heaven, I don't remember that massive star core being visible, which supports the fact that its not a star, but a massive glowing portal that leads to heaven

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

I don't get why you keep mentioning "starry sky" when I was only talking about the sky color specifically. I mentioned it's red. It's red likely due to the Pentagram's red-light emitting.

What? The argument in question is that Heaven itself is universe-sized.

It's not.

Pretty sure you're the one who mentioned "starry sky" when I only talked about sky color.

I pretty much see the Heaven-sphere in question being behind the Pentagram, rather than inside it.

It was 100 billion.

In the part where you mention the color of the sky, I got confused, thinking you were saying that Heaven has its own starry sky...

Well, anyway, I've already answered the part about luminosity and the Red Pentagram together, at least.

Wait, so you're going to try to argue that Heaven is a Universe just because it's called a Kingdom and Vivzi calls it a Universe as an example? Wow...

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

Just to give my reasoning for heaven being a separate universe, when in heaven, I don't remember that massive star core being visible, which supports the fact that its not a star, but a massive glowing portal that leads to heaven

The fact that Sera's barrier is visible from the surface of Heaven and Pentagram City, and that MoL's attack, doesn't refute this?

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

The fact that Sera's barrier is visible from the surface of Heaven and Pentagram City,

the barrier could just be covering the portal itself

and that MoL's attack, doesn't refute this?

MoL goes in one end and out the other

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

the barrier could just be covering the portal itself

But when Sera creates the barrier, we don't see her energy crossing a portal.

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

But when Sera creates the barrier, we don't see her energy crossing a portal.

fair enough

 

[Mythic381]

Wait, so you're going to try to argue that Heaven is a Universe just because it's called a Kingdom and Vivzi calls it a Universe as an example? Wow...

Did you like read my full thing? None of the stuff I mentioned showed the word "kingdom" be used.

The argument doesn't really come from much.

Main Arguments:

• First argument comes from this article, where it mentions some stuff:

Mention of them being universes, and Heaven being it's own realm.

It's followed up by Vivziepop mentioning that they're "like two planets" which seems to me like it's an indicator that she doesn't think they're planets, but rather that they function like planet, in the aspect that you can travel between them via physical means, which is proven by the obvious Might of Lilith going from Hell to Heaven, and Heaven's gate falling into Hell.

• Second argument comes from here.

Mention of realm and it being created seemingly out of nowhere.

Supporting Evidence:

• Paimon describes the world as "Mortal Realm" indicating that they're separate realms.
• Stolas describes it as the "Mortal World."
• Paimon mentions that by giving Stolas the grimoire, he'll be learning about Earth's skies, indicating it's separate from Hell's normal space that we see.

Counter Arguments:

• They're specifically described to be like planets, which wouldn't be needed if they were straight up planets.

• It's mentioned that Vivziepop and her team were looking for "cosmic representations" when designing Heaven. Which led to Heaven-sphere.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

Did you like read my full thing? None of the stuff I mentioned showed the word "kingdom" be used.

I didn't mean Kingdom, it was a translation error... sorry.

 

[Mythic381]

Does anyone mind sending the calculations we're currently waiting for to be evaluated?

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

This and That. Waiting on this one to be completed, then i'll request it to be evaled (don't want the Sins to stay unknown forever, even if it is funny), but if the other two get evaled before it's completed, then i'll bite the bullet and just make a Mini CRT for the Deadly sins

 

[Randomuser3412]

What tier is I.M.P. gonna be after the CRT? I wanna know so I can think of matchups

 

[Mythic381]

I don't think it'll affect their AP, just their speed I think.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

What tier is I.M.P. gonna be after the CRT? I wanna know so I can think of matchups

9-A

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

9-A

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

9-A

where they belong...

I can rest now

 

[Randomuser3412]

9-A

Yep, they're fighting The One Freeman

 

[Mythic381]

She got thrown at a wall... how is that small building?