[Genshin] 4-A God-Tiers Upgrade 😰 (🥀)

[MSahla]

Introduction

“Oh no, that tier again..”

Genshin Impact verse have experienced Tier 4-A twice. First with Imaginarium Theater, the second one with that Narwhal thing. But here we are, trying to get back to that tier again.

So this time, the feats of this 4-A is coming from Pocket Reality Feats (again), cause that's a common feats and actually the easiest way to get 4-A rating.

There are 3 people actually performing these feats with 2 of them being the Shades, let's check them out.

---

Asmoday
Feats:

• In the version 6.5, we got a new map expansion. It is a map of a separate realm created by the Ruler of Space Asmoday, named the "Temple of Space."
• As you can see here, the realm contains a starry sky with even the nebula and the sun within it.

Istaroth
Feats:

• Context: In the 6.3 of the Lantern Rite event quest, one of the Zibai's Three Deadly Selves named Zizhi was trapped in the realm of starry sky created by Istaroth as a punishment for her defying the Heaven's will.
• We can see the full context from here in this video how Zizhi was trapped there because of Istaroth imprisoned her:
• Zizhi/Zibai being trapped/imprisoned by Istaroth within the starry sky is also mentioned in the book Spring of Hidden Jade Vol. 2:
  
  (fyi: Zizhi/Zibai is Istaroth's daughter)

And from those feats, i propose Pocket Reality Manipulation for Istaroth as well.

Now the question will be: How can we scale these to their physicals (AP, Strikin & Dura)?
See the explanations:

Spoiler: Four Shades UES Explanations

The Four Shades are the projections of the Heavenly Principles, they are merely an avatars of them. The Heavenly Principles bestowed them powers, each to govern their own aspects of fundamental reality (i.e Life, Death, Time, and Space). So from this, the abilities of the shades can reasonably scale to their physicals because all of their power originates from a single unified source, which is the Heavenly Principles, making their feats a case of UES rather than separate ability/energy pools.

The Shades are not an independent beings but an extension/aspects of the Heavenly Principles itself, meaning their powers are not separate techniques but expressions of their fundamental existence, so it is the same authorities for them to do something like Control, Manipulate, and Combat. This means that their energy output (especially Asmoday and Istaroth with 4-A realm creations) and their physical stats derive from the same source, which qualify for UES. So unless there is explicit evidences that says:

• The realm is created via hax independent of their own energies
• Their durabilities is canonically shown to be far lower than their outputs

Then there is no reason to not scale it to their physicals (AP, Dura and Striking), and so far theres no such evidences that says the Shades uses other powers besides their own Powers and Authorities bestowed by the Heavenly Principles.

What is the power of the Four Shades? Well obviously:

• Naberius = Authority of Life
• Ronova = Authority of Death
• Istaroth = Authority of Time
• Asmoday = Authority of Space

As long as they use the same energy/authority, to create and fight, it can also be categorized as UES, and can be scaled to their AP and Durability. And we have saw Asmoday with her power (red-cubes thing) to fight and created the Temple of Space.

Asmoday's creations, which is the Watchers of the Temple of Space, also can fight based on space-related powers (that red-cube things), as seen here:

---

Examples of people/things who have used the power of the Four Shades

1. Mavuika Ronova
As we all know, in Natlan Archon Quest, Mavuika borrowed the power from the Ruler of Death Ronova. The purpose is to fight and defeat the Abyss (Gosoythoth).

Mavuika explains that when someone receives power from the Shades, it's not the energy that adapts to their body, but their body adapts to the energy they receive. This means that a person's body will become stronger, which also means that Shades energy increases physical strength, hence why Mavuika said after gaining that level of powers, they will be more formidable/stronger than any archons.

2. Venti Istaroth
Another case is Venti who were bestowed by Istaroth a fragments of her power and authority. Venti's case are more or less the same as Mavuika's, he's stronger physically to the point that he can throw the Mare Jivari off the timeline itself.

Conclusion
So by this point, we can conclude that the Four Shades' power are generally a UES. People who can use their powers are physically stronger as i have provided before, and the Shades themselves can use their powers to fight and create things without any other source of power/energy involved.

This would fit the standard where it basically says Prove the energy used to create something is the same energy usable for attacks or physical stats. Otherwise, you can’t scale it.

• Even though there is concrete evidence for pocket reality creations to qualify as an Attack Potency feat; it should not be assumed to scale to physical statistics without some notable scaling reasons. Examples include on screen demonstrations, examples of destruction, or information that the same pool of energy used to create said dimension can translate to the same amount of energy being used for other abilities including but not limited to physical strikes.

And @DontTalkDT actually have said this:

"Yeah, as far as we agreed in the thread you don't need a normal city level feat to prove that a city level creation feat scales (that would be completely pointless tbh). It's sufficient to proof that your creation spells don't use more of your power than your attack spells. Of course it's a different issue should it be a complete outlier, but that is outlier business as usual."

Columbina
Feats:

She actually performed the feats twice:

• The first one is here, when we fight against Dottore. We can see how she created a realm with the starry sky and the three moons within it
• The same feat was shown here in her Selenic Chronicles quest

The same question arise: How can we scale this to her physicals?
Let's see another explanations:

Spoiler: Kuuvahki UES Explanations

There's a power called Kuuvahki Energy.
Kuuvahki itself came from the Three Moons' power. As a Moon / Trilune Goddess possessing all of the Three Moons' power, her main power is obviously Kuuvahki itself, because Kuuvahki came to be when Columbina, having traveled to the past and received the Trilunar Authority from her sisters, laid aside her body to permit her rebirth in Teyvat. Her discarded body was converted as Kuuvahki energy, which was subsequently distributed across Nod-Krai. So essentially, Kuuvahki is coming from herself.
She can also fight with this power as shown here, here, and here.

Kuuvahki being UES is should be obvious, because it is part of the Elemental Energy (which is an accepted UES in Genshin), and many people or things can use Kuuvahki, such as; the Moon Wheel users, monsters and plants, and even people utilize it for their daily life.

Rerir, who can absorbed Kuuvahki energy to empowered and multiply his strength:

This proves Kuuvahki can increases your physicals overall.

And then there's a Moon Marrow. The Moon Marrow is a divine artifact left behind in the aftermath of a Moon Goddess's death. As the remains of the Moon Goddesses, the Moon Marrows are a source of tremendous Kuuvahki Energy, and its power can make someone even more powerful.

As shown here with Arlecchino after possessing the Iridescent Moon's Marrow.

I think these are enough to prove Kuuvahki is a UES. And so therefore, Columbina's creation feats should scale to her physicals (AP, Striking & Dura)

Conclusion

Genshin Impact's God-Tiers back to 4-A again based on creating a pocket realm containing starry sky.

---

Staff Votes​

Agree​
Neutral​	Planck69
Disagree​	LephyrTheRevanchist - TWILIGHT-OP

 

[LoudestProcedure]

Not again I'm having war flashbacks

 

[Puppet43]

Straight up disagree

• In the cases of Asmoday and Columbina, it is never really specified how those spaces work, therefore we cannot say "there is a light, that means there is a star and it should scale to tier 4"
• You're confusing Istaroth; in the Book of Bamboo they talk about Zibai, not Zizhi; besides, in the section you posted as a scan, it only mentions that she was imprisoned in the starry sky (consistent with the fact that she was imprisoned in the false moon). This is only a Pocket Dimension manipulation at best, since Istaroth could manipulate the false sky to put Zibai in there

 

[AsterReal]

It looks good. The thread I’ve been waiting for has finally arrived.

 

[Mbpoops]

Following

 

[Frostyyyy12]

All of this just assumes that these celestial bodies are actually physically real. No evidence has been provided in favor of that.

 

[Frostyyyy12]

• You're confusing Istaroth; in the Book of Bamboo they talk about Zibai, not Zizhi; besides, in the section you posted as a scan, it only mentions that she was imprisoned in the starry sky (consistent with the fact that she was imprisoned in the false moon). This is only a Pocket Dimension manipulation at best, since Istaroth could manipulate the false sky to put Zibai in there

Also, the usage of the “shell of” implies a mechanism like the false sky, 外殼 used even means “outer shell” or “protective shell”.

 

[MSahla]

• In the cases of Asmoday and Columbina, it is never really specified how those spaces work, therefore we cannot say "there is a light, that means there is a star and it should scale to tier 4"

Because it's not a lights whatsoever. Columbina's realm has 3 moons within it, and we saw Columbina moving those moons by telekinesis, which means they're real celestial bodies.

You have to prove those are just lights, not real stars.

• You're confusing Istaroth; in the Book of Bamboo they talk about Zibai, not Zizhi; besides, in the section you posted as a scan, it only mentions that she was imprisoned in the starry sky (consistent with the fact that she was imprisoned in the false moon). This is only a Pocket Dimension manipulation at best, since Istaroth could manipulate the false sky to put Zibai in there

Because at that time, we don't know if Zibai has Three Deadly Selves, which Zizhi was one of them. Zizhi's part was the visual of that statements.

You know that Zibai was dead long ago, and the only things remains was her Three Deadly Selves, so it cannot talking about the true Zibai, but her selves.

 

[Frostyyyy12]

Because it's not a lights whatsoever. Columbina's realm has 3 moons within it, and we saw Columbina moving those moons by telekinesis, which means they're real celestial bodies.

Columbina moving them does not imply that they are real celestial bodies in the slightest. Actual non-sequitur.

And please explain the narrative consistency for Columbina going out of her way to create a realm with real celestial bodies and stars instead of just fake ones when she only has enough strength to stay alive?

You have to prove those are just lights, not real stars.

That’s asking to prove a negative.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So there's a big hurdle you need to overcome beyond just UES for us to accept this, and requires a bit of evidence that I don't see being brought up here.

Stabilization Feats

This is a type of feat where a character's existence, energy, presence, or any given factor from them sustains a structure on any given scale. And through their sustenance, their statistics are subsequently tiered to being at the level of power that is relative to the given scale of the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

To answer a few things:

This means that their energy output (especially Asmoday and Istaroth with 4-A realm creations) and their physical stats derive from the same source, which qualify for UES.

The energy coming from the same source =/= same energy output for creation being inputed for attacking. This needs evidence.

As long as they use the same energy/authority, to create and fight, it can also be categorized as UES, and can be scaled to their AP and Durability.

As long as you prove they use the same output of energy for fighting that they use for creation. Which I will actually question now, because...

The Four Shades are the projections of the Heavenly Principles, they are merely an avatars of them. The Heavenly Principles bestowed them powers, each to govern their own aspects of fundamental reality (i.e Life, Death, Time, and Space). So from this, the abilities of the shades can reasonably scale to their physicals because all of their power originates from a single unified source, which is the Heavenly Principles, making their feats a case of UES rather than separate ability/energy pools.

All of these prove metaphysical connections to their powers. None of these statements prove energy output. Their powers originate from the aspects they embody, but without a better statement, there's nothing here suggesting their energy outputs is also tied to this. So just because they embody these aspects and use them on their techniques, does not prove a UES.

Basically: They can have 4-A creation, as the power to make these dimensions come from the aspects they embody from the Heavenly Principles. It doesn't have to scale to their AP, as nothing here is proving they use the same output for attacks.

Edit: About the kuuvahki stuff

I think these are enough to prove Kuuvahki is a UES. And so therefore, Columbina's creation feats should scale to her physicals (AP, Striking & Dura)

Same issue as before. You need to prove they actually comply with our Stabilization standards. Just because they use the same energy, doesn't mean they use the same output. Specially when this energy has a lot of hax components. Whose to say the creation feats aren't merely hax/enviromental effects? That's why we need explicit evidence here.

 

[Puppet43]

Because it's not a lights whatsoever. Columbina's realm has 3 moons within it, and we saw Columbina moving those moons by telekinesis, which means they're real celestial bodies.

There no correlation between the authenticity of the moon and that of the stars

You have to prove those are just lights, not real stars.

What Frosty said

You know that Zibai was dead long ago, and the only things remains was her Three Deadly Selves, so it cannot talking about the true Zibai, but her selves.

If you're referring to the dimension where the moon is, that could be pocket dimension manipulation or mind manipulation, since before entering it seems to interact with the traveler's head, implying something like Ei's dimension.

Because at that time

At the time as from Traveler's pov? or Ours?

 

[MSahla]

At the time as from Traveler's pov? or Ours?

Both. Neither the Traveler and us know about Gold-Eyed Celadon Mare / the White Horse Adeptus' Three Deadly Selves. As i said, Zibai was long dead, the only remain things is her three selves. Where did you see Zibai was trapped within the starry sky? None, because she's dead. That's Zizhi instead.

If you're referring to the dimension where the moon is, that could be pocket dimension manipulation or mind manipulation, since before entering it seems to interact with the traveler's head, implying something like Ei's dimension.

You're talking about Ziju's prison, not Zizhi's.

So there's a big hurdle you need to overcome beyond just UES for us to accept this, and requires a bit of evidence that I don't see being brought up here.

Stabilization Feats

This is a type of feat where a character's existence, energy, presence, or any given factor from them sustains a structure on any given scale. And through their sustenance, their statistics are subsequently tiered to being at the level of power that is relative to the given scale of the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

To answer a few things:

The energy coming from the same source =/= same energy output for creation being inputed for attacking. This needs evidence.


As long as you prove they use the same output of energy for fighting that they use for creation. Which I will actually question now, because...


All of these prove metaphysical connections to their powers. None of these statements prove energy output. Their powers originate from the aspects they embody, but without a better statement, there's nothing here suggesting their energy outputs is also tied to this. So just because they embody these aspects and use them on their techniques, does not prove a UES.

Basically: They can have 4-A creation, as the power to make these dimensions come from the aspects they embody from the Heavenly Principles. It doesn't have to scale to their AP, as nothing here is proving they use the same output for attacks.

Edit: About the kuuvahki stuff

Same issue as before. You need to prove they actually comply with our Stabilization standards. Just because they use the same energy, doesn't mean they use the same output. Specially when this energy has a lot of hax components. Whose to say the creation feats aren't merely hax/enviromental effects? That's why we need explicit evidence here.

So, what kinda statements you need? Because, specifict statements like “oh she fight with the same energy output as her creations” is kinda impossible to find.

Just give me a hint.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

• You're confusing Istaroth; in the Book of Bamboo they talk about Zibai, not Zizhi; besides, in the section you posted as a scan, it only mentions that she was imprisoned in the starry sky (consistent with the fact that she was imprisoned in the false moon). This is only a Pocket Dimension manipulation at best, since Istaroth could manipulate the false sky to put Zibai in there

How big's the false sky?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So, what kinda statements you need? Because, specifict statements like “oh she fight with the same energy output as her creations” is kinda impossible to find.

Just give me a hint.

Performs Creation feat
After a while of battling, "damn I am getting tired of launching attacks"

^This one shows that using their energy is tiring when fighting, yet making an entire dimension was casual

The Stabilization page also gives a damn good showing, that the dimension only exists as long as they are fighting, proving it is passively sustained by their energy usage, and upon stopping the fight, the dimension ceases to be.

Stuff like this.

 

[Puppet43]

Neither the Traveler and us know about Gold-Eyed Celadon Mare / the White Horse Adeptus' Three Deadly Selves

Did u actually do the quest?
The first act litterally Zhongli tell us straight up

Where did you see Zibai was trapped within the starry sky?

The scan you used in the original post... literally talks about events contemporary to the Nibelung War, it's clear it's referring to Zibai

You're talking about Ziju's prison, not Zizhi's.

No, its litterally called Zizhi

How big's the false sky?

At best up to 1 second light, it can hold a Earth like planet and 1 Actual Moon

 

[AsterReal]

How big's the false sky?

It contains real stars and could accommodate three moons; from the Frosty Moon, you can see a nebula. So it’s at least a 4-A in size.

 

[Furina003]

So there's a big hurdle you need to overcome beyond just UES for us to accept this, and requires a bit of evidence that I don't see being brought up here.

Stabilization Feats

This is a type of feat where a character's existence, energy, presence, or any given factor from them sustains a structure on any given scale. And through their sustenance, their statistics are subsequently tiered to being at the level of power that is relative to the given scale of the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

To answer a few things:

The energy coming from the same source =/= same energy output for creation being inputed for attacking. This needs evidence.


As long as you prove they use the same output of energy for fighting that they use for creation. Which I will actually question now, because...


All of these prove metaphysical connections to their powers. None of these statements prove energy output. Their powers originate from the aspects they embody, but without a better statement, there's nothing here suggesting their energy outputs is also tied to this. So just because they embody these aspects and use them on their techniques, does not prove a UES.

Basically: They can have 4-A creation, as the power to make these dimensions come from the aspects they embody from the Heavenly Principles. It doesn't have to scale to their AP, as nothing here is proving they use the same output for attacks.

Edit: About the kuuvahki stuff

Same issue as before. You need to prove they actually comply with our Stabilization standards. Just because they use the same energy, doesn't mean they use the same output. Specially when this energy has a lot of hax components. Whose to say the creation feats aren't merely hax/enviromental effects? That's why we need explicit evidence here.

Isn’t it true that they use the same energy for both fighting and creating? So why doesn’t this meet the standard?

Not only that, we can also see from Mavuika’s explanation that when someone receives energy from a Shade, it’s not the energy that adapts to their body instead, their body has to adapt to the energy.
Which means, following this line of reasoning, the more Shade energy someone has, the stronger their physical body becomes.

Then there’s the issue of energy output. Basically, if someone is capable of creating a star, the energy output required is on a stellar scale. The question is: is the energy output used for creation the same as when they try to destroy something?

That’s why UES is necessary to prove that the energy used during creation is directly proportional to their physical power.
And Mavuika’s explanation should already be sufficient to demonstrate that Shade energy qualifies as UES.

 

[AsterReal]

The Stabilization page also gives a damn good showing, that the dimension only exists as long as they are fighting, proving it is passively sustained by their energy usage, and upon stopping the fight, the dimension ceases to be.

In Columbina’s case, when she incinerated Dottore and stopped using her powers, the dimension vanished. She had used her powers to create it, and once the fight was over, the dimension simply fell apart.

 

[Puppet43]

The Stabilization page also gives a damn good showing, that the dimension only exists as long as they are fighting, proving it is passively sustained by their energy usage, and upon stopping the fight, the dimension ceases to be.

The problem with this verse is that for almost 6 years they've been showing us pocket dimensions which supposedly contain celestial bodies but then turn out to be false/illusory, and in the cases Sahl uses, 2 of them lack information about the veracity of said objects, and in the remaining one it's simply Istaroth manipulating the false sky created by Phanes to seal a character

It contains real stars and could accommodate three moons

Dude, the moons were outside of the firmament and this are the so called real stars (Barely 30 meters)

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Isn’t it true that they use the same energy for both fighting and creating? So why doesn’t this meet the standard?

In order to qualify for a Limited Energy System and do scaling according to it, a character or the system they are using must have explanations or showings that indicate that the powers which should scale to each other draw from the same source of power (or can convert between the different kinds of power) and use up a similar amount of power to each other. Alternatively, it would also suffice to show that the user can invest similar amounts of power into any given technique, should they want to.

In order to qualify for a Non-physical Energy System and do scaling according to it, a character or the system they are using needs to fulfill all criteria for a Limited Energy System, but for all techniques. Additionally, they have to demonstrate or have reliable statements that all their supernatural or otherwise non-physical powers scale to each other in Attack Potency. Hence an increase in power / energy should correspond to a proportional increase in the potency of their powers and abilities.

In order to qualify for a Universal Energy System and do scaling according to it, a character or the system they are using needs to fulfill all criteria for a Non-physical Energy System. Additionally, they have to demonstrate that they can channel their power through their own bodies in a way that quantifiably enhances them or otherwise allows scaling of their supernatural powers through their physicals.

 

[AsterReal]

Dude, the moons were outside of the firmament

The Three Moons existed within the False Sky prior to the War of the Funeral Flame; otherwise, why would the Frost Moon have been cast out of the False Sky? The Moon Goddesses cannot live without their moons. But before Nibelung’s return, they were still able to carry out their duties over Teyvat.

 

[MSahla]

Did u actually do the quest?
The first act litterally Zhongli tell us straight up

Funny how you show that video, which is the quest where the Traveler learn about the Three Deadly Selves for the first time. Because, the timeline we're talking about here is before 6.3 Lantern Rite.

The Traveler have read Moonlit Bamboo Forest (and maybe Spring of Hidden Jade too), because Paimon mentioned that she and traveler have heard the White Horse Adeptus.

Where did you see in Spring of Hidden Jade or Moonlit Bambo Forest book mentioned that Zibai has Three Deadly Selves?

The scan you used in the original post... literally talks about events contemporary to the Nibelung War, it's clear it's referring to Zibai

And what happened to Zibai? Yes, she's dead because she got nuked by Celestial nail. The statement in OP is the what happened to her AFTER the war.

No, its litterally called Zizhi

Yet you're talking about Ziju's domain bruh.

If you're referring to the dimension where the moon is, that could be pocket dimension manipulation or mind manipulation, since before entering it seems to interact with the traveler's head, implying something like Ei's dimension

It's the scene where the Traveler touched Zhongli's relic and suddenly his mind was going into the Moon Shadow

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Dude, the moons were outside of the firmament and this are the so called real stars (Barely 30 meters)

Where is this rock called a star? Skipping to previous dialogue, they called it a meteorite?

 

[MSahla]

The Stabilization page also gives a damn good showing, that the dimension only exists as long as they are fighting, proving it is passively sustained by their energy usage, and upon stopping the fight, the dimension ceases to be.

Stuff like this.

I think i can prove this one with Columbina's case.

Here's the first time she created the realm:

During that battle, they were in her dimension.

That up until she defeated Dottore in this scene and her dimension is gone:

 

[MSahla]

Where is this rock called a star? Skipping to previous dialogue, they called it a meteorite?

He referring to the False Sky (the name of it self-explanatory). While these dimensions in OP are independent from that.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

He referring to the False Sky (the name of it self-explanatory). While these dimensions in OP are independent from that.

That's not what I quoted.

 

[Puppet43]

The Moon Goddesses cannot live without their moons.

They can, they just become weakend

Funny how you show that video, which is the quest where the Traveler learn about the Three Deadly Selves for the first time. Because, the timeline we're talking about here is before 6.3 Lantern Rite.

The Traveler have read Moonlit Bamboo Forest (and maybe Spring of Hidden Jade too), because Paimon mentioned that she and traveler have heard the White Horse Adeptus.

Seriously, what does this have to do with the statements used for scaling?

And what happened to Zibai? Yes, she's dead because she got nuked by Celestial nail. The statement in OP is the what happened to her AFTER the war.

And what happened to Zibai? Yes, she's dead because she got nuked by Celestial nail. The statement in OP is the what happened to her AFTER the war.

Yeah and got sealed in the sky... how does this have anything to do with the scans?

Yet you're talking about Ziju's domain bruh.

Thats called moonshadow
i clearly said "The Dimension where the moon is", which of the 2 have a moon in it?

Where is this rock called a star?

In the Genshin universe, these rocks create the constellations that form the sky within the starry sky.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

In the Genshin universe, these rocks create the constellations that form the sky within the starry sky.

Thank you. Yeah, that feat is bust then.

 

[MSahla]

Seriously, what does this have to do with the statements used for scaling?

Because it gives the context + the timeline of it?

Yeah and got sealed in the sky... how does this have anything to do with the scans?

That's for Ziju in the Moon Shadow, not Zizhi or Ziqiao.

Thats called moonshadow
i clearly said "The Dimension where the moon is", which of the 2 have a moon in it?

Zizhi's prison was not called "Moon Shadow" unlike Ziju's prison.

 

[MSahla]

I think i can prove this one with Columbina's case.

Here's the first time she created the realm:

During that battle, they were in her dimension.

That up until she defeated Dottore in this scene and her dimension is gone:

Thank you. Yeah, that feat is bust then.

I have sent what you want.

 

[AsterReal]

They can, they just become weakend

Canon said they couldn't.

 

[Natsuki012]

disagree fra

 

[MSahla]

In the Genshin universe, these rocks create the constellations that form the sky within the starry sky.

Well this is talking about the False Sky, isn't it. Because these realms we're talking about in OP are independent from that and have said has its own laws, just like the world itself (talking about the Temple of Space)

 

[AsterReal]

The argument for disagreeing is actually rather strange:

"Since several dimensions have had fake celestial bodies in the past, we will now assume by default that all dimensions have fake celestial bodies, even though it cannot be proven whether they are fake or not."

Stars can be seen in the Columbina dimension (with no evidence or claim that they are fake).

The Temple of Space has a sun, a nebula and stars (which show no sign of being fake).

So it all boils down to “it’s fake because this has happened several years in a row.” And not because: “the stars are fake because X and Y reasons prove it.”

The visual evidence from the Temple of Space and the Columbina dimension has not proved to be inconsistent.

 

[AsterReal]

Well this is talking about the False Sky, isn't it. Because these realms we're talking about in OP are independent from that and have said has its own laws, just like the world itself (talking about the Temple of Space)

Even the Temple of Space is referred to as 'stagnant space-time'.

 

[MSahla]

The argument for disagreeing is actually rather strange:

"Since several dimensions have had fake celestial bodies in the past, we will now assume by default that all dimensions have fake celestial bodies, even though it cannot be proven whether they are fake or not."

Stars can be seen in the Columbina dimension (with no evidence or claim that they are fake).

The Temple of Space has a sun, a nebula and stars (which show no sign of being fake).

So it all boils down to “it’s fake because this has happened several years in a row.” And not because: “the stars are fake because X and Y reasons prove it.”

The visual evidence from the Temple of Space and the Columbina dimension has not proved to be inconsistent.

Shortly: Non-Sequitur.

 

[Furina003]

What I mean is, shouldn’t they also already qualify for a non-physical energy system ?
Non-physical energy basically means that their magical attacks have the same destructive capability. For example, if A uses fire magic and can destroy a building, then the water magic A uses can also destroy a building but this does not necessarily scale to their physical strength.

First, we need to understand that Shades fundamentally can only use one authority. Take Asmoday, for example she is the ruler of Space, so everything she does is based on that authority, since she does not possess any other. That means whatever form of “magic” she uses is still derived from the authority of Space and will have the same level of capability. So, can’t we conclude that whatever she creates should be directly proportional to what she can destroy? Because she only uses one energy / one authority, this should already meet the standard for non-physical energy.

As for UES, does it also increase their physical strength? Yes, that should already be clear. Mavuika explicitly explained that Shade energy enhances their physical power, which is why she became stronger than any Archon.

Thank you. Yeah, that feat is bust then.

The meteors that fell into Teyvat is simply a part of constellation, as it originated from a person who died 2000 years ago. Therefore, the size of the constellation that fell into Teyvat cannot be used as a benchmark for its true size.

Mona: I shaved some dust off the meteorite and used it to do another reading. It was actually really effective!

Mona: These rocks have been around for hundreds, maybe even thousands of years. Leonard must have lived a very long time ago.

Mona: The meteorites carry his will, and can pass it on others. In other words, centuries on from Leonard's life, and the strength of his will has not diminished one bit.

so these meteors are not a form of just part of the constellation

Mona: Just as I thought, Leonard was an adventurer who lived two thousand years ago.

Mona: His lifelong dream was to reach the summit of a mountain called Pilos Peak.
Paimon: Two thousand years? So the constellation that caused the meteorites is from two thousand years ago!?

Mona: Somehow, for some reason, this constellation was summoned down from the sky. I suspect that the Fatui have something to do with that part.

Mona explained that the stars in Stella Fortuna are real stars, with a distance of light-years.

Mona: That's what most people tend to think. But I've studied astrology for a very long time, and I know a few things about them that you might not.

Mona: The stars that make up a constellation — the Stella Fortuna — are genuine celestial bodies in the depths of space. They are not simply notional.

Mona: The strange thing is that they turned into meteors all of a sudden, and fell from the sky... Why this happened I am not yet sure. I need some time.

Mona:Remember how I was saying that the meteorites belonged to someone's constellation?

Mona:Theoretically, it's not possible for stars that are goodness knows how many light-years away to suddenly turn into meteors and fall out of the sky. But, however paradoxical it may be, this is the reality.

Mona: If we want to get to the bottom of this, the best way is to find out whose constellation it was.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

The argument for disagreeing is actually rather strange:

"Since several dimensions have had fake celestial bodies in the past, we will now assume by default that all dimensions have fake celestial bodies, even though it cannot be proven whether they are fake or not."

I mean, it is 100% up to you to show the dimensions are legit. Specially when past cases show they actually aren't legit. If you can't... Tuff luck there.

I have sent what you want.

Btw, if there isn't anything contradicting this, this one does have my seal of approval for Stabilization.

 

[MSahla]

The problem with this verse is that for almost 6 years they've been showing us pocket dimensions which supposedly contain celestial bodies but then turn out to be false/illusory

And do you wanna know what's the problem?

You said:
“This past 6 years they've been shown us pocket dimensions with celestial bodies, but it always turns out fake”

Then i assune you think something like:
“Therefore, all dimensions that contains celestial bodies are fake too”

Do you see the problem? That's blatant non-sequitur. The premise only establishes existence in some cases, not a rule that applies universally.

False Sky contains fake celetial bodies is obvious, because it's the "False Sky" for a reason. Imaginarium Theater is also so because it's a realm within a book. Every dimensions with fake celestial bodies we've been through has its own reason why they're fake.

 

[MSahla]

Btw, if there isn't anything contradicting this, this one does have my seal of approval for Stabilization.

I assume that's an agreement then.