@Antvasima There are several feats in the verse showing characters reacting to FTL and MFTL objects or opponents. Most of the anti-feats brought up by the OP mainly challenge travel speed feats, which isn’t really in dispute and agreed upon. However, very few of them actually address or counter the reaction or combat speed feats, which is the main point of contention in this thread, as raised by @Lort15 and @GeneralSol16 in the earlier pages.
I don't have any issue with the attempt of changing the characters who actually scales. But issue here is that OP is attempting to scale down MFTL+ and MFTL combatt and reaction speed for entire verse, which is what Firestorm and I disagree with.Okay. Maybe what you need to do is simply to not mass-scale almost all of the characters, including much more regular humans and aliens, to the same speed and attack potency feats, and see them interacting with much swifter and more powerful characters as extreme outliers for the sake of plot convention? I think that Firestorm suggested something similar above.
Shouldn't this be in a different thread i mean this downgrade is for general mftl+ speed for everyone if someone wants to attemp downgrade regular humans that's personal to said character not actually targeting the speed rating for others and i do think Ben and Max should keep their speed as Max were stated to be the best plumber in the Galaxy, an organization of Galactic Polices that they capture Criminals like Vilgax, Vulcanus, Albedo etc. and some of them are actually comparable to Kevin eventually defeated him in combat. Max is above a regular plumber in this case and his feats also makes sense and Ben was stated to he capable of stopping some aliens without the watch several times and also has feats on that, and was stated to be best wielder of Omnitrix even a better choice than Max also Ben is like Quarter-Anodite and according to Verdona Max also had the potential so not really a regular human in this case i mean overall plot made them to be those characters that they can fight against those aliensOkay. Maybe what you need to do is simply to not mass-scale almost all of the characters, including much more regular humans and aliens, to the same speed and attack potency feats, and see them interacting with much swifter and more powerful characters as extreme outliers for the sake of plot convention? I think that Firestorm suggested something similar above.
Okay. I just disagree with scaling the entire verse from higher end feats by a few characters, as we currently do.
Applicability of a character’s travel or flight speed to their reaction speed depends on the site’s established standards. Preferences regarding these standards can vary, but they have been in place here for a long time and are outlined on our pages. It would be better to wait and see how many characters actually scale to the specific speed feats performed by Characters in the verse before reaching a conclusion. If they do scale to their own flight speed per our site standards then there is nothing wrong with it.
there is more characters like reacting to Tachyon cannon btw those are not calculated yet but worth to mention
8 direct MFTL+ is quite consistant compared to other verses who can get as high or even higher ratings for lessOkay. I just disagree with scaling the entire verse from higher end feats by a few characters, as we currently do.
Their direct feats as well puts them at ftl, atleast, independent of scaling chain. Regular humans who has no feats and no reason to scale so high per plot and likely a outlier like No watch ben don't scale that high.
why are you against speed blog, just make one. if it's scan videos you need you can just message me. These problems will be solved.
I am not against it? Firestorm is making it currently and in the process. We are just waiting.
Why? Ben and Max are plumbers who trained in martial arts and even avoiding lasers, and there no regular human scaling to them, even no watch Ben
Let's see.
Kevin has the abilities of Ben's aliens including Fourarms, Diamondhead etc. who can fight against Malware who is comparable to Feedback, Feedback can react to Tachyon Cannon blast which is MFTL+, the Simian stuff is that him being comparable to Spidermonkey a member of his own species and Spidermonkey can tag characters like Gwen who dodged the tachyon cannon blast similar to Feedback
The profile literally has evidence of Charmcaster and Gwen fighting
The plumber suit is a high advanced technology the robot, it's shown that Max can react Vilgax's robot, the Robot who can hit Four Arms but i don't remember why his laser from the suit was scaling to MFTL+ if it has nothing we can replace it with other feats
it's outdated we don't use the rel speed anymore Zs'kayr is MFTL+ because of scaling to Ben's aliens
i do agree with the wording should be reworked but they do have feats on their own
no like why assuming the energy blast is similiar to our Laser standarts like it's way above that
The profiles are supposed to include proper justification for their current ratings, which in this case is MFTL+. My point is about dismissing this scaling chain simply on the basis that “they are humans.” That doesn’t hold, because they are clearly not regular humans. They are capanle enough to react to FTL tachyon canon that can be calc'd directly, their reaction speed was outright shown to be faster than speed of Rustbucket which is directly stated to be FTL in outer space by Kevin in the Episode Frame. This isn’t just chain scaling either, since these feats can be evaluated on their own without relying on previously calculated feats from other characters or objects, thus aren't chain scaling. These FTL feats already place them far beyond normal human capabilities. The scaling chain simply proves them not being limited to that and pushes them even higher. So the argument that “they are just humans, so they shouldn’t have MFTL+ reaction speed” doesn’t really work to begin with since they already qualify as FTL even without relying on scaling.
What??? Can you actually show the lasers in ben 10 moving at the speed of light/behaving as real light? Because multiple times we have seen these laser blasts behave like this:
This is chain scaling. Not an independent feat Ben has made as what Reiner and the Marvel/DC policy page says. And the bigger the chain, the less it requires the characters involved in the outer parts of the chain to scale to the full value of the guy who actually made the feat. I.e. while Feedback can be MFTL+ to the 2000's, the discrepancy that comes from relativity can nerf Kevin all the way down to FTL or even lower because they're not crossing the same or greater distances or lesser timeframes, nor are there statements that their speed is static.
Bruh, my whole point is that their speed scaling is "Kept up with Gwen" and "Kept up with Charmmaster". But neither of them have anything expanding as to why they would be MFTL+, it's circular scaling. And either way, it's still not a feat, just a chain scale.
His profile isn't distinguishing between his normal attire nor his plumber suit. And either way, Max reacting to a random beam from miles away is not evidence of an MFTL+ feat unless the beam itself was proven separately to be MFTL+ feat. At best, the feat is relativistic.
So Zs'Skayrr doesn't have feats beyond relativistic, just chain scaling. Which is my point.
They do not, they require chain scaling to Feedback to even get their rating which is similar to this chain in the marvel page
.... dude?
Ben's fastest alien needed to jump into hyperspace to perform a feat that doesn't even reach FTL so yes everything is wrong with it
Jetray's realspace flight speed scales above Chromastone's per Ben's statements prior to ever attempting to use hyperspace.
Ben's fastest Alien needs to reach Hyperspace to catch up with Rustbucket that left supposidly several hours ago. Are we really going to ignore all MFTL+ feats in Ben 10 coz Mai guy can reach Hyperspace. Sounds like if a guy can timetravel with FTL speed, all other FTL speed feats that doesn't results in time travel should be discraded. Take a rest and think for a sec.
They do not, in fact. Feedback does. Feedback is an alien and the humans do not have any proven feats that make them on par with Feedback in speed other than Ben dodging Max's laser which isn't proven to go at MFTL+, let alone the speed of light by the criteria, as well as Gwen dodging that tachyon blast which isn't necessarily MFTL+. All they have is chain scaling
Scans of this? And reacting to an object =/= you're faster than the object's travel speed.
Every single instance I mentioned is indeed chain scaling.
I believe you've misunderstood. When I said "alot of these humans like Grandpa Max and Human Ben scaling so high comes from chain scaling", I didn't say Max and Ben would be capped at Human Level in speed. I said their scaling to MFTL+ only comes from absurd chain scaling to Simians and Feedback, their feats have been at best Relativistic and the humans being MFTL+ breaks consistency in the story cuz then people like Zs'Skayrr narrowly dodging a light beam makes no sense
i don't quite understand what you mean here this is a situation of this
How does that change anything? If Jetray specifically needs to jump into hyperspace to move at those speeds than that shows he can't casually just travel at those speeds regularly
All your 'MFTL+ feats' are heavily inconsistent, most of them are travel speeds and are filled with anti feats. If its so consistent like you're claiming it is then there shouldn't be only 2 MFTL+ combat feats that don't rely on travel feat chainscaling
or he just wanted to travel there faster cuz Sugilite's speed feat is lower than Jetray's hyperspace thing and the Hyperspace amplifies your speed
Except your chain scale:
is not the same as:
Your chain scale is saying that Kevin has "the abilities" of Ben's aliens including Diamondhead, who can fight Malware who is comparable to Feedback, however it doesn't necessarily infer that everyone involved scales to Feedback's full value because nothing indicates superiority to it, like the example does. Thus Malware, while being "comparable", doesn't need to be as fast as him.
Well its edited now but regardless, here is the stuff. That said spaceship was said to be FTL in outerspace. Aggregor was "too fast" for Said spaceship and yet Ben and Kevin were able to clearly percieve and react to Aggregor, doesn't even need a calc to know their reaction time is faster than space ship.
