Bondin' Jimmy (2-A Mario Bonds UES CRT)

[Galactidot]

Yeah but it's a different mushroom kingdom's wishes

...what?

Bro I'm sorry but that's just either cope, or you're running a bit low on sleep. I know the feeling.

The only difference is that they're literally just made of paper according to you.
That's it.

Are you implying that the hopes, bonds, and wishes of paper people matter more than non-paper beings? Are you saying King Olly was right?

 

[Lou_change]

Are you implying that the hopes, bonds, and wishes of paper people matter more than non-paper beings? Are you saying King Olly was right?

I am saying we can't definitely cross scale the non paper Star Sprites to the paper ones so 2-A star rod is questionable hell we don't even know how the Dream Depot was created so scaling anyone to its creation should only be a possibly rating and also they had an unquantifiable degree of help from Twink, my goat. We also can't definitively say anything regarding the strength of the individual bonds involved compared to the normal mushroom kingdom which isn't known to stay of a consistent nature.

 

[Galactidot]

I am saying we can't definitely cross scale the non paper Star Sprites to the paper ones so 2-A star rod is questionable hell we don't even know how the Dream Depot was created so scaling anyone to its creation should only be a possibly rating and also they had an unquantifiable degree of help from Twink, my goat. We also can't definitively say anything regarding the strength of the individual bonds involved compared to the normal mushroom kingdom which isn't known to stay of a consistent nature.

Sure for the first part, absolutely not for the second.

 

[Lou_change]

Okay is Yoshi's Island a part of
A. Dinosaur Land which is explicitly not part of the Mushroom Kingdom.
B. The Mushroom Kingdom.
C. The name Yoshi's Island is used for 2 different locations that are named differently in the original Japanese
D. Yoshi's Island is just Yoshi's Island
If you answered E all of the above you are correct the original Yoshi's Island or Yo'ster Isle is both A and B while Yoshi Island is used just for D.
Source

 

[Galactidot]

Okay is Yoshi's Island a part of
A. Dinosaur Land which is explicitly not part of the Mushroom Kingdom.
B. The Mushroom Kingdom.
C. The name Yoshi's Island is used for 2 different locations that are named differently in the original Japanese
D. Yoshi's Island is just Yoshi's Island
If you answered E all of the above you are correct the original Yoshi's Island or Yo'ster Isle is both A and B while Yoshi Island is used just for D.
Source

Why are we talking about Yoshi's Island..? We're going way off topic...

But yes it's E. And again, that doesn't matter.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This is for another thread as you said but honestly Mario & Luigi's max tier together shouldn't scale to their standalnoe max, they're just stronger when together.

That was the main point, there exist UES (or empathy based amps if that's the preferred term) that requires 2 or more people working together and basically not usable in one on one fights. That a foot note could clarify that it can't be done alone. Though, bonds could also work in the form of Mario and Peach or a crowd cheering for Mario and stuff (Though once again, it won't be a default all the way to 2-B)

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

Though, bonds could also work in the form of Mario and Peach or a crowd cheering for Mario and stuff (Though once again, it won't be a default all the way to 2-B)

Right, it's because of Mario and Luigi's bond SPECIFICALLY that they are able to defeat Reclusa. The Great Conductor was quite clear on that.

 

[Galactidot]

That was the main point, there exist UES (or empathy based amps if that's the preferred term) that requires 2 or more people working together and basically not usable in one on one fights. That a foot note could clarify that it can't be done alone. Though, bonds could also work in the form of Mario and Peach or a crowd cheering for Mario and stuff (Though once again, it won't be a default all the way to 2-B)

Particularly skilled Bond users like Wilma can bypass this, though

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

how the Dream Depot was created so scaling anyone to its creation should only be a possibly rating and also they had an unquantifiable degree of help from Twink, my goat.

Actually, we know who created it. The Star Spirits. It's directly stated in the Japanese Website.

 

[Lou_change]

How and who are different words.

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

How and who are different words.

The statement here just says they specifically created it. Since nothing elsewhere suggests they used anything else- they likely used their own power.

 

[Lou_change]

I mean they don't bother trying to stop bowser themselves despite being the guardians of the dream depot in story mode the English manual goes as far to say they need help stopping Bowser I can't find the Japanese manual online however. Skolar could have built something.

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

I mean they don't bother trying to stop bowser themselves despite being the guardians of the dream depot in story mode the English manual goes as far to say they need help stopping Bowser I can't find the Japanese manual online however. Skolar could have built something.

If Skolar did it, it would have been stated that Skolar himself was responsible; but the feat is simply attributed to the Star Spirits as a whole.

Although, this is a bit of a derailment- so I'll cut this short.

 

[Imaginym]

What are the current points of contention of this thread's topic?

 

[Galactidot]

What are the current points of contention of this thread's topic?

Not much, really. We've arrived to a general consensus.

I'll let Armorchompy and DDM explain if they want, but in short, Low 2-C currently seems agreed upon, up to 2-B.

 

[JPTheGamer]

What are the current points of contention of this thread's topic?

Not much, really. We've arrived to a general consensus.

Low 2-C currently seems agreed upon, up to 2-B.

So, what's your vote, Imaginym?

 

[Armorchompy]

Uh, I only agreed to Low 2-C for ED, not for stats overall. I'm in disagreement with the OP's arguments and with Reclusa/Bonds physically scaling to anything above their current tiers.

 

[Galactidot]

I only agreed to Low 2-C for ED, not for stats overall. I'm in disagreement with the OP's arguments and with Reclusa/Bonds physically scaling to anything above their current tiers.

Well, I asked you to clarify, and you did, so thanks for that.

If it's not too much trouble, may I ask why you only agree with ED? Also, so I should put you in Agree and Neutral, or Agree and Disagree, or simply Neutral?

 

[JPTheGamer]

My thought was Low 2-C because the dreams are made individually, he can just do it a bunch.

Uh, I only agreed to Low 2-C for ED, not for stats overall. I'm in disagreement with the OP's arguments and with Reclusa/Bonds physically scaling to anything above their current tiers.

 

[Galactidot]

My thought was Low 2-C because the dreams are made individually, he can just do it a bunch.

Uh, I only agreed to Low 2-C for ED, not for stats overall. I'm in disagreement with the OP's arguments and with Reclusa/Bonds physically scaling to anything above their current tiers.

Well yeah but I just don't exactly understand how that is Environmental Destruction

 

[Armorchompy]

Well, I asked you to clarify, and you did, so thanks for that.

My apologies for not keeping up, I haven't been too on-site last few days. Probably won't be for a while.

If it's not too much trouble, may I ask why you only agree with ED?

I guess "Creation" would be better than ED, but either way I disagree with it scaling to physicals. My reason is I don't think the UES is valid, and also I still don't think he's directly creating the universes as I've outlined in previous debates.

Also, so I should put you in Agree and Neutral, or Agree and Disagree, or simply Neutral?

Disagreement. With the note that I'm fine with empowerment based on emotions for the verse and a non-physicals rating for Reclusa based on his ability to indirectly create dream worlds.

 

[Galactidot]

My apologies for not keeping up, I haven't been too on-site last few days. Probably won't be for a while.

I guess "Creation" would be better than ED, but either way I disagree with it scaling to physicals. My reason is I don't think the UES is valid, and also I still don't think he's directly creating the universes as I've outlined in previous debates.

Disagreement. With the note that I'm fine with empowerment based on emotions for the verse and a non-physicals rating for Reclusa based on his ability to indirectly create dream worlds.

That is understandable. I'll update it now.
Therefore, you could say we are currently at 3 agree for Low 2-C, and 2 agree and 1 disagree for 2-B? Just making sure I'm interpreting this correctly.

So essentially I can also read this as "Armor disagrees, but he's at least in agreement with Low 2-C if 2-B/2-A UES doesn't pass". Got it.

 

[Armorchompy]

Well, it's just Low 2-C for Creation, it wouldn't scale to Bonds or Reclusa's physicals IMO. So probably just disagree overall given what's mainly being pushed is an upgrade for all his stats

 

[Galactidot]

Well, it's just Low 2-C for Creation, it wouldn't scale to Bonds or Reclusa's physicals IMO. So probably just disagree overall given what's mainly being pushed is an upgrade for all his stats

Well yeah

But overall, is what I have in the tallies okay and accurate?

 

[Armorchompy]

Sure

 

[Dalesean027]

I'm leaning more with armor here personally and would say the low 2-C is fine

 

[Galactidot]

Yes

Uncle Radish full statement



This makes this even MORE solid for Reclusa, because he's stated to REMOVE all bonds by Grampy Turnip.

The same Bonds that make the 2-A multiverse, and AT LEAST the 2-B verse (if we're limiting to one Universe's Bonds), including the Dreams.

Destroyed. Thus scaling to.

And if for some reason you deny that, it would at least allow for Low 2-C physicals.

This should be simple, but if you for any reason need any explanation, just ask.

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

Uncle Radish full statement

I'm almost offended I got no credit

 

[Galactidot]

I'm almost offended I got no credit

Sorry, wasn't sure if this was the place to mention it

Thanks for getting the scans!

 

[Lou_change]

Was this brought up and agreed upon before this CRT?

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

Was this brought up and agreed upon before this CRT?

The "everything is made by bonds" by Grampy Turnip was. Armor asked for Japanese context, and this is Galactidot giving it.

 

[Lou_change]

Okay. Still I feel it might be worth showing the official localization.

Only two lines really deviate the sixth and seventh.
In the sixth case the idea of a dispute that doesn't ultimately ruin the relationship is present while in the seventh the parallels are nearly gone using that interpretation. Also the ninth line of both establishes the world still exists. I don't know exactly what is translating to everything, but is it possible it could mean "all things" or something instead?

 

[Galactidot]

Okay. Still I feel it might be worth showing the official localization.

Only two lines really deviate the sixth and seventh.
In the sixth case the idea of a dispute that doesn't ultimately ruin the relationship is present while in the seventh the parallels are nearly gone using that interpretation. Also the ninth line of both establishes the world still exists. I don't know exactly what is translating to everything, but is it possible it could mean "all things" or something instead?

Same localization that did this btw

https://www.reddit.com/r/marioandluigi/s/QYVD1fLksf

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

Same localization that did this btw

Starlow definitely has 8 heads, you just didn't play the game inebriated enough.

 

[Lou_change]

I mean to be fair the use of 8 heads as a unit of measurement is odd

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

I mean to be fair the use of 8 heads as a unit of measurement is odd

It's actually decently common in some art circles...

Which I totally didn't look up just now to confirm.

 

[Lou_change]

Okay so I found what means "everything" すべて and turns out "all things" is actually 万物 which definitely not what is said however 万物 means all things of the universe while すべて seems to mean everything together as part of a set I used a combination of Google Translate and wiktionary to figure this out so nuance is probably lost on me and it could be wrong but it supports the localization. Also even in Japanese it is implied the world would still exist.

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

Also even in Japanese it is implied the world would still exist.

That would still but Reclusa above practically every Mario character in the verse, to be honest.

 

[AyOgUyS]

The OP makes sense to me. I agree :3

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

Da-Bump, ta, Da-Bump, Da-Bump, Da-Bump.