IMITATION OF A SOUL; Metal Sonic vs Cyn (STH vs MD) [0-8-0]

[Soul80]

I can promise you their physiology is not more complex than the stuff Metal Sonic can copy lol. Metal Sonic can copy stuff that is the super substance of concepts, the plot, information, laws, non-existence, etc. Hell, even Black Holes are technically one small part of said super substance.

Please don't change the subject. Now you switching up between argument about hacking and adaptation.

So please, tell me how the same t of technology Eggman of the hacking resistance, can resist something which working on more global lvl.

Also, I wanna know if Metal adaptation are passive and how much it needs to take a time for a adaptation in timeframe (or it's depends) , because if it's still take some time for adaptation then he would even release it before get exploded.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Please don't change the subject. Now you switching up between argument about hacking and adaptation.

What?

So please, tell me how the same t of technology Eggman of the hacking resistance, can resist something which working on more global lvl.

What are you talking about? The scale at which they can hack doesn't matter. Why would that matter?

Also, I wanna know if Metal adaptation are passive and how much it needs to take a time for a adaptation in timeframe (or it's depends) , because if it's still take some time for adaptation then he would even release it before get exploded.

Metal Sonic doesn't adapt. He copies. And it takes like a few seconds of perception to do so.

 

[Soul80]

What?

First subject which we're talked about if Eggman technology can resist solver, even tho it's not hacking if Metal let Absolute solver to give him access in basic datas for copying him and ot must be over, I made counter argument against that host's physiology are more complex than average mechanic of the Eggman, then you just switch argument to adaptation which is not the same.

What are you talking about? The scale at which they can hack doesn't matter. Why would that matter?

It does, a more complex and advanced technology is, make it more harder to manipulate it in the coding or hacking it.

Metal Sonic doesn't adapt. He copies. And it takes like a few seconds of perception to do so.

Adaptation has a lot variations, coping is one them in category.
"Few seconds" so it's slower than basic prepection of the solver? And well, if it's not passive adaptation, then I don't see how he'll going to not getting exploded after copying absolute solver inside him

 

[LaserPrecision]

First subject which we're talked about if Eggman technology can resist solver, even tho it's not hacking if Metal let Absolute solver to give him access in basic datas for copying him and ot must be over, I made counter argument against that host's physiology are more complex than average mechanic of the Eggman, then you just switch argument to adaptation which is not the same.

I'm still not sure what point you are trying to convey here. And also, gaining entry into a system doesn't mean you've hacked it. That just means they've gained access to their system. And even doing so, Metal Sonic would be able to resist any negative effects due to Eggman having precautions for whatever bs might follow as a result of doing so.

It does, a more complex and advanced technology is, make it more harder to manipulate it in the coding or hacking it.

Scale and complexity are two different things. Just because I can hack all computers on earth in the 1960s doesn't mean I can hack a single computer from 2026. And Eggman's technology is far more advanced than what is in Murder Drones. This is a 35 year old franchise with numerous spin offs and secondary canons. Anything Murder Drones has done, Sonic has done.

Adaptation has a lot variations, coping is one them in category.
"Few seconds" so it's slower than basic prepection of the solver?

Few seconds from the perception of the character using it. Cmon dude, why would I mean real time seconds? If it were that slow, Metal Sonic would NEVER be able to copy anything because they are MFTL+ and a second to them would be billions of years. The copying is damn near instant.

 

[Soul80]

I'm still not sure what point you are trying to convey here. And also, gaining entry into a system doesn't mean you've hacked it. That just means they've gained access to their system.

If you're into system then it's means that you have a free access to his data's which doesn't have any defense , most of the time for having a free access to the same datas of computer, you need: 1. Bypass defense of those codes 2. Given a free access to the data's of this computer.
While I can argue that solver can hack his system, it wouldn't be needed

And even doing so, Metal Sonic would be able to resist any negative effects due to Eggman having precautions for whatever bs might follow as a result of doing so.

Like I already said, please prove how his hacking resistance working on more greater scale of the system than absolute solver otherwise this burden would be matter much if it doesn't a valid reasons

Scale and complexity are two different things. Just because I can hack all computers on earth in the 1960s doesn't mean I can hack a single computer from 2026.

There some argument which I can understand, however, it wasn't my argument, it's not because it's "advanced" in sense of year timeframe, but most of because it's a working on more greater lvl of the hacking than simple technology, host's data's and information contain into black holes and can merge with other host's like Uzi did it in the final episode.

And Eggman's technology is far more advanced than what is in Murder Drones. This is a 35 year old franchise with numerous spin offs and secondary canons. Anything Murder Drones has done, Sonic has done.

Just because it's a global franchise I wouldn't say that they have a all haxes and all resistance to the same haxes in all aspects (metaphorically) it's still need a valid justification to be approved

Few seconds from the perception of the character using it. Cmon dude, why would I mean real time seconds?

I'll be happily if it didn't look that you're used it in literally sense tbh.

If it were that slow, Metal Sonic would NEVER be able to copy anything because they are MFTL+ and a second to them would be billions of years. The copying is damn near instant.

I mean, it's logical cuz Metal going to deal with other collective minds of absolute solver inside him after he'll try to copy Cyn absolute solver, so this doesn't look good for metal in the most variants of this current scenario

 

[ARandomDude127]

WHY are we still on about this debate about Metal copying Cyn’s data/powers when he LITERALLY can’t here

 

[Soul80]

WHY are we still on about this debate about Metal copying Cyn’s data/powers when he LITERALLY can’t here

Ah yeah

 

[Soul80]

WHY are we still on about this debate about Metal copying Cyn’s data/powers when he LITERALLY can’t here

Well maybe because I need to debate with someone so I can put this on Cyn page

 

[LaserPrecision]

If you're into system then it's means that you have a free access to his data's which doesn't have any defense , most of the time for having a free access to the same datas of computer, you need: 1. Bypass defense of those codes 2. Given a free access to the data's of this computer.
While I can argue that solver can hack his system, it wouldn't be needed

Uh, I'm not sure if you know this but if someone is on your computer through another device, if you know what you are doing, you can prevent them from being able to do anything.

Eggman himself has systems in place so even if you do hack into his system, you get prevented from being able to mess with anything.

Like I already said, please prove how his hacking resistance working on more greater scale of the system than absolute solver otherwise this burden would be matter much if it doesn't a valid reasons

I literally have zero idea what you're asking for. Is english not your first language? I don't mean that in an offensive way, I just feel like we need a translator to convey the point to me.

There some argument which I can understand, however, it wasn't my argument, it's not because it's "advanced" in sense of year timeframe, but most of because it's a working on more greater lvl of the hacking than simple technology, host's data's and information contain into black holes and can merge with other host's like Uzi did it in the final episode.

What? I think I vaguely get what you're saying?

Anyways, Sonic has greater levels of hacking. They can alter fundamental information (Type 2), souls, memories, and reality via hacking on a Tier 1 scale with peeps like Sage.

Just because it's a global franchise I wouldn't say that they have a all haxes and all resistance to the same haxes in all aspects (metaphorically) it's still need a valid justification to be approved

I'm not saying because it's a much bigger franchise, I'm saying I could grab any ability you could name from Murder Drones, and find it being done in Sonic. Black Holes, Hacking, information, other fundamental shit, etc. Sonic has it.

I mean, it's logical cuz Metal going to deal with other collective minds of absolute solver inside him after he'll try to copy Cyn absolute solver, so this doesn't look good for metal in the most variants of this current scenario

Ignoring that this isn't Neo, Neo would be able to copy Cyn, and be completely unscathed. Too many resistances and safety precautions built in. Honestly I would argue you need to prove the Murder Drones are advanced enough to even interface with Neo's stuff because Eggman has infinitely more impressive technological feats.

 

[Soul80]

Uh, I'm not sure if you know this but if someone is on your computer through another device, if you know what you are doing, you can prevent them from being able to do anything.
Eggman himself has systems in place so even if you do hack into his system, you get prevented from being able to mess with anything.

And I'm not really sure if you're actually read my respond and only after this responding, you cannot block something if system working on much much greater scale which I explained, and we're forget that Cyn has pseudo corruption virus in datas? It wouldn't stop on the same Metal datas but Will continue and just corrupt the same Eggman system after this ? (Also we're talking about

I literally have zero idea what you're asking for. Is english not your first language? I don't mean that in an offensive way, I just feel like we need a translator to convey the point to me.

First, yeah? But idk part which you didn't understand, I just told you to prove how base metal resistance working on much greater or at the same lvl as absolute solver to resist his possession inside him so he wouldn't explode.

Anyways, Sonic has greater levels of hacking. They can alter fundamental information (Type 2), souls, memories, and reality via hacking on a Tier 1 scale with peeps like Sage.

Yeah, now I'll be glad if you'll try to prove how all this can be included for a base Metal , I can understand the same reason for Neo metal but we're using this key anyway.

I'm not saying because it's a much bigger franchise, I'm saying I could grab any ability you could name from Murder Drones, and find it being done in Sonic. Black Holes, Hacking, information, other fundamental shit, etc. Sonic has it.

And I'll be glad if you will prove how it will be included for the same base metal , I ain't argue about which verse is higher in terms of hax lol.

Ignoring that this isn't Neo, Neo would be able to copy Cyn,

I didn't say anything about Neo form btw

 

[Niko]

Aight the speed gap isn't "too" bad the longer I looked into this. This is manageable for Cyn, she could catch Metal with her solver thanks to her reaction time, example when she caught a missile in episode 8, or when she didn't need to move and was blocking a throwing object while mid sentence in episode 5, or when she caught a Null and dodged a Null both thrown by Uzi in episode 8.

The small problem is how Metal starts his fights. Most of his fights were him ambushing his opponent first (not counting Neo Metal Sonic since he confronts his enemies instead), which makes this really difficult for Cyn, especially if it's a 100m distance apart and him being aware that Cyn could one shot kill. Metal will 100% of the time go for the kill right away from behind.

Meanwhile if Cyn were to know how dangerous Metal is (which she knows about his overwhelming strength), she would likely teleport first and hide herself behind her hologram to observe Metal if she is fast enough, Metal Sonic may be advanced, but he has never shown to be able to detect any invisible character or Espio or holograms. This would actually give Cyn a huge advantage and enough time to destroy him via Scale and Null.

 

[Soul80]

Anyway, I think it's pointless to argue about adaptation or hacking.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Yeah, now I'll be glad if you'll try to prove how all this can be included for a base Metal , I can understand the same reason for Neo metal but we're using this key anyway.

I didn't say Base Metal. I was referring to Neo. But it applies to Metal Sonic resistance wise via Tails and Eggman. Eggman does some of those feats and has multiple layers of protection installed in his tech, and via Tails failing to hack into Eggman's stuff. And there's "layers" of it too given as the games progress they become smarter and hack into harder and harder things they couldn't before. Metal Sonic is one of Eggman's most prized possessions and greatest creations. Eggman has built tech with resistance to hacking, corruption, and possession. For all intents and purposes, Neo (who is who I'm referring to) would shrug off anything Cyn would try doing after copying her stuff.

I didn't say anything about Neo form btw

I have been talking about Neo from the beginning. So why have you been replying then?

 

[Soul80]

I have been talking about Neo from the beginning. So why have you been replying then?

Idk if you even read a thread then, the second:

Well maybe because I need to debate with someone so I can put this on Cyn page

 

[LaserPrecision]

Idk if you even read a thread then, the second:

Well you wouldn't need to debate me if the match isn't about Neo Metal Sonic to have it added to the profile so I don't understand.

 

[Soul80]

Well you wouldn't need to debate me if the match isn't about Neo Metal Sonic to have it added to the profile so I don't understand.

Tbh I thought it's his general ability in first place

 

[LaserPrecision]

Metal Sonic may be advanced, but he has never shown to be able to detect any invisible character or Espio or holograms. This would actually give Cyn a huge advantage and enough time to destroy him via Scale and Null.

I wouldn't be surprised if he had an instance of detecting someone under those conditions. I know there are other characters who have for sure but I can't remember if Metal ever had to or not.

How many holograms are there?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Tbh I thought it's his general ability in first place

He can copy in base, but it's much more limited compared to Neo who can basically steal anything.

 

[Soul80]

How many holograms are there?

Like a lot
Maybe can be higher with her solver range

 

[LaserPrecision]

Like a lot

Alright, if there's a lot, he's most likely to just open up with Spin Dash and speedblitz and destroy all the clones instantly.

 

[Soul80]

Alright, if there's a lot, he's most likely to just open up with Spin Dash and speedblitz and destroy all the clones instantly.

I mean, you can argue that her holograms creation can be much more higher with solver range (solver abilities applying on planetary ranges) and her holograms cannot be sensed, such as dissembly drones enhanced sense can detect presence of the objects around them through their visor but cannot detect the same Cyn hologram (also Solver holograms can be sensed trough physical touch, so it will be only more harder to sense real Cyn for metal)

 

[Niko]

I wouldn't be surprised if he had an instance of detecting someone under those conditions. I know there are other characters who have for sure but I can't remember if Metal ever had to or not.

How many holograms are there?

I looked it up, couldn't find any instances that Metal has or failed to detect or see through invisibility or illusion/hologram.

Cyn's hologram can be near to perfect, she can grow CCTVs of herself and project as many holograms to fill up the entire room or house (via interior of a Church). In episode 2, this was Solver that was controlling J's core, she fooled Uzi with the hologram. (13:15)


This was Solver controlling Nori at the time and this was what happening. (2:36)


And this was Cyn against Uzi (14:00)

 

[LaserPrecision]

I looked it up, couldn't find any instances that Metal has or failed to detect or see through invisibility or illusion/hologram.

I'll look for smth but Metal was barely in the Adventure era so dunno what I'll find.

Cyn's hologram can be near to perfect, she can grow CCTVs of herself and project as many holograms to fill up the entire room or house (via interior of a Church). In episode 2, this was Solver that was controlling J's core, she fooled Uzi with the hologram. (13:15)


This was Solver controlling Nori at the time and this was what happening. (2:36)


And this was Cyn against Uzi (14:00)

Yeah, I think Metal will just resort to blitz amps. He could do an AoE nuke if it proves to be too problematic since the Sonic characters have kilometers worth of range with their DC.

 

[Niko]

Yeah, I think Metal will just resort to blitz amps. He could do an AoE nuke if it proves to be too problematic since the Sonic characters have kilometers worth of range with their DC.

Does he do that though?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Does he do that though?

I mean he uses the hell out of it in Sonic 4. Ordinarily I don't think he's going to, but if his opponent can just spam the **** outta clones he'll quickly resort to it.

 

[Soul80]

I'll look for smth but Metal was barely in the Adventure era so dunno what I'll find.

Yeah, I think Metal will just resort to blitz amps. He could do an AoE nuke if it proves to be too problematic since the Sonic characters have kilometers worth of range with their DC.

Why Cyn can't just try to teleport away after this ? , then just one shot with null after he'll be busy with holograms to distract him enough

 

[Soul80]

I mean he uses the hell out of it in Sonic 4. Ordinarily I don't think he's going to, but if his opponent can just spam the **** outta clones he'll quickly resort to it.

Cyn should just do this to use fatal solver attacks like getting exploded inside or using the same Null.

 

[Niko]

I mean he uses the hell out of it in Sonic 4. Ordinarily I don't think he's going to, but if his opponent can just spam the **** outta clones he'll quickly resort to it.

Got source?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Got source?

Of using the spin dash? Basically all throughout Sonic 4. The alternative is he for some reason just flies over to every clone one by one over and over and over despite it clearly not working. Which doesn't really make a whole lotta sense given Metal's cutthroat way of fighting.

 

[Aksh_sky]

The stat difference doesn't seem too high, but Cyn has some crazy hax and just better wincons overall.

 

[Niko]

Of using the spin dash? Basically all throughout Sonic 4. The alternative is he for some reason just flies over to every clone one by one over and over and over despite it clearly not working. Which doesn't really make a whole lotta sense given Metal's cutthroat way of fighting.

Forced to watch entire 20 minutes of that. Yeah, I don't think Metal is getting past any of the holograms even if he spin dashes in one go or one by one, he can't see the CCTVs since they hologram themselves invisible as well. This gives just enough time for Cyn to blow him up or Nulls him.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Forced to watch entire 20 minutes of that.

I'm sorry, the game sucks

Yeah, I don't think Metal is getting past any of the holograms even if he spin dashes in one go or one by one, he can't see the CCTVs since they hologram themselves invisible as well. This gives just enough time for Cyn to blow him up or Nulls him.

Are the holograms intangible or smth? Why wouldn't he be able to get past them?

 

[Soul80]

I'm sorry, the game sucks

Ong, really

Are the holograms intangible or smth? Why wouldn't he be able to get past them?

I mean... Well, yeah kinda .
Even Uzi was confused with those holograms

 

[LaserPrecision]

I mean... Well, yeah kinda .
Even Uzi was confused with those holograms

Yeah, then if the speedblitz doesn't work I see him just nuking everything for miles and hitting them.

 

[Soul80]

Yeah, then if the speedblitz doesn't work I see him just nuking everything for miles and hitting them.

I mean, Cyn should just use her holograms to distract him enough to use solver after this (like using either null or just explode him inside)

 

[LaserPrecision]

I mean, Cyn should just use her holograms to distract him enough to use solver after this (like using either null or just explode him inside)

I think if he uses a speedblitz amp, and sees attacking the clones repeatedly isn't working he'd just go for the nuke before she gets the chance to use it.

 

[Soul80]

I think if he uses a speedblitz amp, and sees attacking the clones

I'm sure Cyn doesn't need to use clones, just making holograms of the structures around him and hologram of herself to distract him enough for use absolute solver.
Metal shouldn't even understand that he keep fighting with only holograms of the Cyn and those effects aren't actually real (just looks too realistic).

 

[Niko]

I think if he uses a speedblitz amp, and sees attacking the clones repeatedly isn't working he'd just go for the nuke before she gets the chance to use it.

By the time he realizes that, Cyn would've already placed a Null on him, by placing I mean spawning it on target, which vaporized his entire body, like this.

 

[LaserPrecision]

By the time he realizes that, Cyn would've already placed a Null on him, by placing I mean spawning it on target, which vaporized his entire body, like this.

can I see a clip if u don't mind

 

[Niko]

can I see a clip if u don't mind

You're gonna have a field day on what solver drones can do (they all have same powers)
Scale (Target's neck snap and Target's body explode)


Scale (Target's head explodes)


Null (Uzi was taken controlled by Cyn and offscreened the raptors via AOE)


Null (Cyn took control over Uzi again and changed Move/Translate into Null on Elevator)