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Star Wars Discussion Thread Canon/Legends- Episode VI Return of the Threadi

In the canon, I don't think there was ever an explanation for Force Lightning and Vader, why he doesn't use it or isn't able to use it (probably the same explanation as in Legends), but man, how I hate it when something related to meat impacts the use of the Force.

Like, okay, life generates the Force, but the Force is everything, it flows through everything. And it's above all something more spiritual.

The physical flesh of a being shouldn't affect what they are or aren't capable of doing with the Force. I find this whole idea of physical flesh and midichlorians to be something that goes against what the original trilogy itself established.

We have Yoda speaking:
Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter
Click to expand...
In addition to Obi-Wan still being able to use the Force as a Force Spirit despite obviously not having physical flesh.

-

In the sequel trilogy, even when Luke becomes one with the Force and disappears, the mechanical hand goes with him.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
The physical flesh of a being shouldn't affect what they are or aren't capable of doing with the Force. I find this whole idea of physical flesh and midichlorians to be something that goes against what the original trilogy itself established.
Click to expand...
In new canon, if I remember correctly, there's a statement somewhere saying the limitation is more mental than physical per se.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
In the canon, I don't think there was ever an explanation for Force Lightning and Vader, why he doesn't use it or isn't able to use it (probably the same explanation as in Legends), but man, how I hate it when something related to meat impacts the use of the Force.

Like, okay, life generates the Force, but the Force is everything, it flows through everything. And it's above all something more spiritual.

The physical flesh of a being shouldn't affect what they are or aren't capable of doing with the Force. I find this whole idea of physical flesh and midichlorians to be something that goes against what the original trilogy itself established.

We have Yoda speaking:

In addition to Obi-Wan still being able to use the Force as a Force Spirit despite obviously not having physical flesh.

-

In the sequel trilogy, even when Luke becomes one with the Force and disappears, the mechanical hand goes with him.
Click to expand...
I think the idea of Vader not using force lightning only makes sense if it's because his suit is generally weak to lightning.
 
Doggo said:
I think the idea of Vader not using force lightning only makes sense if it's because his suit is generally weak to lightning.
Click to expand...
The problem is that in the new canon, Vader is actually more resistant to lightning than normal Force users.
 
Will Vader's vsthreads spam get annoying? I was thinking of setting up a Jedi vs. Ram match so the Force Choke wouldn't be a problem. But I could only think of Yoda.
 
Doggo said:
I think the idea of Vader not using force lightning only makes sense if it's because his suit is generally weak to lightning.
Click to expand...
I think his suit in more recent times is that he is more vulnerable to lightning attacks than normal ones but still shows high level of electricty resistance as shown in the latest Star Wars Darth Vader comic. Note he also killed several Summa Verminoths charged by power capsules here.

Star%20Wars%20-%20Darth%20Vader%20050%20%282024%29%20%28Digital%29%20%28Kileko-Empire%29-028.jpg
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
Well, tell that to his breathing electronics
Click to expand...
Are you talking about the scene from ROTJ? His respirator stopped working because it was melted by Sidious's power (who was using all his hatred at the time).

Never again and again Vader is hit by electricity and Force lightning in the canon and his armor doesn't suffer any damage.

Isaacbobanka literally posted a scene of Vader resisting electricity.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
What do you think?
Click to expand...
Damn, that’s a pretty crazy feat for a Canon character. I know he had to amp himself up to do so, but still.

As for methodology, yeah I kind of lean towards Dale’s suggestion of a GPE method probably being more reliable than having to guess a speed (especially since the cruisers it seems to be hitting tend to be slower than fighters and corvettes in-atmosphere).

Since the text mentions a bystander describing it being made to slice up where it once tumbled down second by second, it seems to suggest relatively between the two, so my advice for a guess would be to calculate a GPE difference using the sky-island’s height as the distance and then multiply the result by 2 to account for it also cancelling out the prior downwards momentum. Will probably give something around City level.
 
Epyriel said:
Damn, that’s a pretty crazy feat for a Canon character. I know he had to amp himself up to do so, but still.
Click to expand...
It's actually surprising to find a high-level feat that isn't attributed to Vader.

Epyriel said:
Damn, that’s a pretty crazy feat for a Canon character. I know he had to amp himself up to do so, but still.

As for methodology, yeah I kind of lean towards Dale’s suggestion of a GPE method probably being more reliable than having to guess a speed (especially since the cruisers it seems to be hitting tend to be slower than fighters and corvettes in-atmosphere).

Since the text mentions a bystander describing it being made to slice up where it once tumbled down second by second, it seems to suggest relatively between the two, so my advice for a guess would be to calculate a GPE difference using the sky-island’s height as the distance and then multiply the result by 2 to account for it also cancelling out the prior downwards momentum. Will probably give something around City level.
Click to expand...
Could you discuss this with Dale to get his opinion?
 
Epyriel said:
As for methodology, yeah I kind of lean towards Dale’s suggestion of a GPE method probably being more reliable than having to guess a speed (especially since the cruisers it seems to be hitting tend to be slower than fighters and corvettes in-atmosphere).
Click to expand...
Although the Elzar isn't affecting the GPE of the island though as nothing implies the altitude has changed, he's moving it to tag the ship in the image
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
Although the Elzar isn't affecting the GPE of the island though as nothing implies the altitude has changed, he's moving it to tag the ship in the image
Click to expand...

True, but that is more a difference between the source materials, with the original text having a greater focus on vertical displacement:

She felt the wave of emotion hit before it happened. One second the Nihil ship was preparing to fire, and the next it was obliterated. The sky-island had changed direction, slicing up where moments before it was tumbling down, soaring through the air like a discus thrown by a giant.

It continued out into the bay, carving a looping arc through the Nihil armada to splash spectacularly into the lake, but Indeera wasn’t looking, she was shouting an order in the confines of her cockpit, the Sneevel hugging the nose of her craft.
Click to expand...
 
Honestly, any feat is great because Dooku has enough scans to downscale Yoda in AOTC, and Yoda upscales basically any character before the Empire.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
Honestly, any feat is great because Dooku has enough scans to downscale Yoda in AOTC, and Yoda upscales basically any character before the Empire.
Click to expand...
I mean the Summa Verminoths that Vader had killed did consume power capsules which each one can power Mos Eisley for a month. Its also the same capsules that stored energy from the machine which consumes the life of a planet and converts it into usable energy.
 
I think the only thing missing from the Force Manipulation page is the Force Wielders.

But I don't think they share powers. At most, I think they can be compared to the Jedi.
 
Normally I wouldn't create a Star Wars profile, since it's already complicated with the profiles we have.

But I think creating a profile for The Son wouldn't be a problem, right? Since his scaling is easy?

Speaking of which, what was their scaling like before the whole Tier 1 thing? Would they be half 3-A, Low 2-C, or would they simply scale to the value of mortal characters?
 
Phsccarvalho said:
Normally I wouldn't create a Star Wars profile, since it's already complicated with the profiles we have.

But I think creating a profile for The Son wouldn't be a problem, right? Since his scaling is easy?

Speaking of which, what was their scaling like before the whole Tier 1 thing? Would they be half 3-A, Low 2-C, or would they simply scale to the value of mortal characters?
Click to expand...
Wasen't it stated by The Father that they (The Son and The Daughter) would destroy the universe if he wouldn't control then?
 
Phsccarvalho said:
Normally I wouldn't create a Star Wars profile, since it's already complicated with the profiles we have.

But I think creating a profile for The Son wouldn't be a problem, right? Since his scaling is easy?

Speaking of which, what was their scaling like before the whole Tier 1 thing? Would they be half 3-A, Low 2-C, or would they simply scale to the value of mortal characters?
Click to expand...
They were Multi-Solar System level IIRC albeit the basis for this was in Legends off of the World Razer.
 
Isaacbobanka said:
Ive always wonderd what this scales at? Does he move the planet or does he move the stars as it changes from day to night it has to be one of them.
Click to expand...
Kinda looks like the sky (including the stars) are directly being moved to me, but others are free to chime in.

Would make sense since Mortis doesn’t really have a natural day-night cycle since it is just the power of the Son and Daughter forcibly changing the landscape - which matches Anakin overpowering them in this scene.

If others agree I can make a quick calc.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
But doesn't that just apply to Anakin?
Click to expand...
Mortis Anakin is basically just a replacement to the Father with less experience so should also scale to him. Debatably also downscales to the Son and Daughter (and Abeloth in Legends).
 
Epyriel said:
Mortis Anakin is basically just a replacement to the Father with less experience so should also scale to him. Debatably also downscales to the Son and Daughter (and Abeloth in Legends).
Click to expand...
But what is Father's power level in canon?

Because in canon, Mortis was created by the Force itself, not Father.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
But what is Father's power level in canon?

Because in canon, Mortis was created by the Force itself, not Father.
Click to expand...
I mean yeah, that is the same for both, but so is the narrative of the Father representing the balance and seeking Anakin as a replacement for his declining strength so he can take over the role of keeping his children in check.
 
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