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Nora Brynhildr (The Ark Collection) vs Asuna Kamakura (Path of Wills)

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Nora Brynhildr vs. Asuna Kamakura

Rude Awakening Asuna Kamakura is being used.
Prior to Anamnesis Nora is being used. Nora starts at 300% and Amps are allowed.
The battle takes place in the Forest of Oblivion in Ark starting 20 meters apart with speed equalized.


Nora's AP & Durability: 376 Tons
Nora's Lifting Strength: Class G
Speed: Mach 500

Asuna's AP & Durability: 175.98 Tons
Asuna's Lifting Strength: Class 100
Speed: Mach 1282.8

Nora has 2.13x AP & Dura advantage.
Asuna has 2.5x Speed Advantage.

Nora Brynhildr:

ARKFk


Asuna Kamakura:

SAbCj


Incon:
 
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Nora's mind activates her power Eidos. Nora's mind is made of three parts: Ego, Superego, ID.

Ego (The self)
Superego (The morality)
ID (Desire)

Nora's power is measured in percentage, usually 100%. Nora at 100% would have each of the three constructs at a percent all adding up to 100. The three abilities listed on her page details the effects of each construct would have if they kept increasing.

Her abilities work like Shigeo Kameyama from Mob Psycho 100, the more she overthinks, the more she imprints her feelings into her psychokinesis until it reaches her limit (100%). Her psychokinesis has different effects depending on what part of her mind is stimulated the most (out of Ego, Superego, and ID)

  • If her EGO reaches 100%, her hubris capsizes and floods into her telekinetic powers. The effects of such is that she influence reality to what she sees fit.
  • If her ID reaches 100%, her desire bleeds into her telekinetic energy. The effects of such, is the energy itself evolves and transforms Nora fulfilling her desires at that given moment. The best way I can compare this to is the Requiem Arrow from JOJO Part 5.
  • If her Superego reaches 100%- instead of influencing reality on a minor level, Nora outright is able to deny aspects of reality + can influence reality the same way as Ego.

The first thing Nora will analyze Asuna before attempting to engage in sword combat. Nora fights like a fighting game character, as in she will do things that are deemed extra in nature. Actions like fancy flips, and overly complexed hand maneuvers. Nora simply moves her blade in ways that are impossible with normal joints, to others is simply is like going through a moveset you would see in a video game.

Another thing to note is Nora's sword is actually 12 feet from pummel to tip (photo takes some creative liberties). The sword itself has a dual function as a sword and shield. Being able to swing such a massive weapon freely can be problematic for Asuna.

As the fight continues Nora will passively increase her Eidos (Ego, Superego, ID), I would say it would take three minutes before she reaches 300% and she unlocks the full capabilities of her amps. As she progressively fights, Nora will overthink many aspects of the fight, including: Asuna's tactics, what her abilities are, her goals, and get stronger as a result of such overthinking in the fight for each passing thought. Because Nora gets stronger the more she thinks, she gets stronger for virtually anything Asuna does until she reaches 300%. Nora's unfamiliarity with her will only make her stronger in the middle of the fight reducing Asuna's chances of winning.
 
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Hold on, I thought this was just having them both at their peaks? As in Chapter 12 Asuna and having Nora start at 300% to make things even. 8-A and MHS+ Isn't something Asuna reaches with amps, it's the level she's already achieved which is why it's put as "Eventually became". I don't think this'll affect the match too much, though.
The first thing Nora will analyze Asuna before attempting to engage in sword combat. Nora fights like a fighting game character, as in she will do things that are deemed extra in nature. Actions like fancy flips, and overly complexed hand maneuvers. Nora simply moves her blade in ways that are impossible with normal joints, to others is simply is like going through a moveset you would see in a video game.

Another thing to note is Nora's sword is actually 12 feet from pummel to tip (photo takes some creative liberties). The sword itself has a dual function as a sword and shield, being able to swing such a massive weapon freely can be problematic for Asuna.

As the fight continues Nora will passively increase her Eidos (Ego, Superego, ID), I would say it would take three minutes before she reaches 300% and she unlocks the full capabilities of her amps. As she progressively fights, Nora will overthink many aspects of the fight, including: Asuna's tactics, what her abilities are, her goals, and get stronger as a result of such overthinking in the fight for each passing thought. Because Nora gets stronger the more she thinks, she gets stronger for virtually anything Asuna does until she reaches 300%. Nora's unfamiliarity with her will only make her stronger in the middle of the fight reducing Asuna's chances of winning.
As problematic as that may sound, many demons in path of wills have reaches significantly greater than that with their physical size alone, which Asuna has been dealing with even before she could effectively use Soul Energy beyond increasing her physical strength. Facing something massively larger than her isn't anything new. It's also explicitly stated that Nora has little combat experience in her weaknesses section despite her inhuman way to move her joints, so the size of her weapon isn't an advantage she can use to it's full potential from the sounds of it.

Of course, as mentioned on discord, Asuna's skill is also superhuman in it's own way, and she has far more feats of this sort of thing from what I can tell. Plus, her own adaptability also shouldn't be underestimated either. Nora can increase her strength with amps, but Asuna can evolve in response, starting from a value she already upscales. Nora is said to have potentially "Lethal" side-effects when using her amps too, which doesn't sound great for her. It's not explicitly said what these actually are, though, which I think should be updated on the page

How does Nora use her overthinking ability in a fight? Who has she beaten with it? All of her intelligence feats seem more related to processing speed, innovation, things like that rather than countering things in live combat. And even if she's constantly shifting gears to deal with her opponent, Asuna will be doing the same thing.
 
Hold on, I thought this was just having them both at their peaks? As in Chapter 12 Asuna and having Nora start at 300% to make things even. 8-A and MHS+ Isn't something Asuna reaches with amps, it's the level she's already achieved which is why it's put as "Eventually became". I don't think this'll affect the match too much, though.

As problematic as that may sound, many demons in path of wills have reaches significantly greater than that with their physical size alone, which Asuna has been dealing with even before she could effectively use Soul Energy beyond increasing her physical strength. Facing something massively larger than her isn't anything new. It's also explicitly stated that Nora has little combat experience in her weaknesses section despite her inhuman way to move her joints, so the size of her weapon isn't an advantage she can use to it's full potential from the sounds of it.

Of course, as mentioned on discord, Asuna's skill is also superhuman in it's own way, and she has far more feats of this sort of thing from what I can tell. Plus, her own adaptability also shouldn't be underestimated either. Nora can increase her strength with amps, but Asuna can evolve in response, starting from a value she already upscales. Nora is said to have potentially "Lethal" side-effects when using her amps too, which doesn't sound great for her. It's not explicitly said what these actually are, though, which I think should be updated on the page

How does Nora use her overthinking ability in a fight? Who has she beaten with it? All of her intelligence feats seem more related to processing speed, innovation, things like that rather than countering things in live combat. And even if she's constantly shifting gears to deal with her opponent, Asuna will be doing the same thing.
Noted, will change to have them at their respective peaks. I'll address the other stuff in a moment.
 
As problematic as that may sound, many demons in path of wills have reaches significantly greater than that with their physical size alone, which Asuna has been dealing with even before she could effectively use Soul Energy beyond increasing her physical strength. Facing something massively larger than her isn't anything new. It's also explicitly stated that Nora has little combat experience in her weaknesses section despite her inhuman way to move her joints, so the size of her weapon isn't an advantage she can use to it's full potential from the sounds of it.

Of course, as mentioned on discord, Asuna's skill is also superhuman in it's own way, and she has far more feats of this sort of thing from what I can tell. Plus, her own adaptability also shouldn't be underestimated either. Nora can increase her strength with amps, but Asuna can evolve in response, starting from a value she already upscales. Nora is said to have potentially "Lethal" side-effects when using her amps too, which doesn't sound great for her. It's not explicitly said what these actually are, though, which I think should be updated on the page
Should probably note that the speed difference makes it harder to capitalise on these too.
 
Hold on, I thought this was just having them both at their peaks? As in Chapter 12 Asuna and having Nora start at 300% to make things even. 8-A and MHS+ Isn't something Asuna reaches with amps, it's the level she's already achieved which is why it's put as "Eventually became". I don't think this'll affect the match too much, though.

As problematic as that may sound, many demons in path of wills have reaches significantly greater than that with their physical size alone, which Asuna has been dealing with even before she could effectively use Soul Energy beyond increasing her physical strength. Facing something massively larger than her isn't anything new. It's also explicitly stated that Nora has little combat experience in her weaknesses section despite her inhuman way to move her joints, so the size of her weapon isn't an advantage she can use to it's full potential from the sounds of it.

Of course, as mentioned on discord, Asuna's skill is also superhuman in it's own way, and she has far more feats of this sort of thing from what I can tell. Plus, her own adaptability also shouldn't be underestimated either. Nora can increase her strength with amps, but Asuna can evolve in response, starting from a value she already upscales. Nora is said to have potentially "Lethal" side-effects when using her amps too, which doesn't sound great for her. It's not explicitly said what these actually are, though, which I think should be updated on the page

How does Nora use her overthinking ability in a fight? Who has she beaten with it? All of her intelligence feats seem more related to processing speed, innovation, things like that rather than countering things in live combat. And even if she's constantly shifting gears to deal with her opponent, Asuna will be doing the same thing.
Nora's adaptability is akin to machine learning. At the start of the series, Nora starts off completely helpless, and through being put through several life-threatening situations, she becomes somewhat competent at swordsmanship.

The rate of her development is exponentially faster than the rate of an Average Arkane, as she was engineered to be "superhuman," superhuman in Ark terms would translate to well above average.

What kickstarted Nora's progression is her spar with MEGA. Throughout the spar, Nora was unable to land a hit on MEGA, having each of her attacks dissected and countered. MEGA, having already surpassed the combined efforts of mankind in the art of swordsmanship, became an immediate hurdle for Nora to overcome, allowing her to grasp the fundamentals of swordsmanship and to soon build a foundation for her future victories to come. Nora's growth was evident in her next spar with Almace Alcatraz. Nora was able to adapt to Almace's acrobatics:

A talent that allowed her to twist and turn her body in impossible ways to gain leverage in the air & even invert the direction of gravity, allowing her to perform double and even triple jumps.

Nora's adaptability even allows her to incorporate concepts into her own arsenal. Going back to Almace's acrobatics, she is so adept at acrobatics that she is capable of redirecting the momentum in her body to change her velocity. Nora found that out the hard way, and through the annoying feline's constant evasion, Nora was able to incorporate this momentum distribution into her fighting style.

Nora was also able to learn how to fight against instinctive reaction through the same spar with Almace Alcatraz. Almace is a nekomata with the following type of instinctive reaction:

Nekomata can intuitively dodge attacks the moment they sense them—relying on animalistic instinct rather than conscious thought. It is so effective that the commonly accepted notion is that nekomata will always certainly dodge the first two attacks you try against them—even if they had no prior awareness that someone was even nearby. Once they've seen an attack once before, their body will naturally learn the patterns of movement needed to evade it going forward, executing them instinctively every next time they're utilized.

The conditions of the spar between Almace and Nora are that Nora would be declared the victor if she could land three consecutive hits on Almace. The fight had a time limit of five minutes, and she managed to hit her all three times within the last minute. Within the span of four minutes, Nora managed to garner enough skill to outdo the natural skill of Arkane Nekomatas.

Overthinking also plays a role in this. During the spar, Nora was unable to hit Almace for four minutes straight, causing her to become stressed and embarrassed about the situation. Throughout the match, Nora kept on thinking about the situation, how she was not good enough, how she wished she were stronger, and overall had a plethora of thoughts about how she wished she were better. This drove her desire to "land a hit" to an all-time high, thus increasing her ID. As I mentioned, this increase in ID plays into her ability, specifically her minor probability manipulation. The higher her ID is, the stronger she becomes and the more likely she is to warp the probability of the world around her to get her way.

Not only did Nora get stronger, faster, and more skilled, but she also increased the probability of her desires happening, all because she kept thinking about it and raising her ID.

The longer the match takes, the harder it becomes for Asuna.
 
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Hold on, I thought this was just having them both at their peaks? As in Chapter 12 Asuna and having Nora start at 300% to make things even. 8-A and MHS+ Isn't something Asuna reaches with amps, it's the level she's already achieved which is why it's put as "Eventually became". I don't think this'll affect the match too much, though.

As problematic as that may sound, many demons in path of wills have reaches significantly greater than that with their physical size alone, which Asuna has been dealing with even before she could effectively use Soul Energy beyond increasing her physical strength. Facing something massively larger than her isn't anything new. It's also explicitly stated that Nora has little combat experience in her weaknesses section despite her inhuman way to move her joints, so the size of her weapon isn't an advantage she can use to it's full potential from the sounds of it.

Of course, as mentioned on discord, Asuna's skill is also superhuman in it's own way, and she has far more feats of this sort of thing from what I can tell. Plus, her own adaptability also shouldn't be underestimated either. Nora can increase her strength with amps, but Asuna can evolve in response, starting from a value she already upscales. Nora is said to have potentially "Lethal" side-effects when using her amps too, which doesn't sound great for her. It's not explicitly said what these actually are, though, which I think should be updated on the page

How does Nora use her overthinking ability in a fight? Who has she beaten with it? All of her intelligence feats seem more related to processing speed, innovation, things like that rather than countering things in live combat. And even if she's constantly shifting gears to deal with her opponent, Asuna will be doing the same thing.
The side effects of her abilities are less pronounced when already at the target percent. What I mean by this is- if Nora is at 100% and throughout the fight she increases her Eidos to 200% and 300%, then she would experience the symptoms at their worst as she increases her Eidos. The reason for that is stability. Think of it like this, imagine as if you were overclocking your computer, increasing the clock speed until it's three times what it was before. Once you do that, you start affecting the stability of the entire computer, which may crash it.

It was used to 100%, and then you cranked it to 300%. If she's already at 300%, then that becomes her baseline.

This is how it works in the story. Once she unlocks a new percent, she can easily tap into that new baseline if pushed to it.
 
Nora's adaptability is akin to machine learning. At the start of the series, Nora starts off completely helpless, and through being put through several life-threatening situations, she becomes somewhat competent at swordsmanship.

The rate of her development is exponentially faster than the rate of an Average Arkane, as she was engineered to be "superhuman," superhuman in Ark terms would translate to well above average.

What kickstarted Nora's progression is her spar with MEGA. Throughout the spar, Nora was unable to land a hit on MEGA, having each of her attacks dissected and countered. MEGA, having already surpassed the combined efforts of mankind in the art of swordsmanship, became an immediate hurdle for Nora to overcome, allowing her to grasp the fundamentals of swordsmanship and to soon build a foundation for her future victories to come. Nora's growth was evident in her next spar with Almace Alcatraz. Nora was able to adapt to Almace's acrobatics:

A talent that allowed her to twist and turn her body in impossible ways to gain leverage in the air & even invert the direction of gravity, allowing her to perform double and even triple jumps.

Nora's adaptability even allows her to incorporate concepts into her own arsenal. Going back to Almace's acrobatics, she is so adept at acrobatics that she is capable of redirecting the momentum in her body to change her velocity. Nora found that out the hard way, and through the annoying feline's constant evasion, Nora was able to incorporate this momentum distribution into her fighting style.

Nora was also able to learn how to fight against instinctive reaction through the same spar with Almace Alcatraz. Almace is a nekomata with the following type of instinctive reaction:

Nekomata can intuitively dodge attacks the moment they sense them—relying on animalistic instinct rather than conscious thought. It is so effective that the commonly accepted notion is that nekomata will always certainly dodge the first two attacks you try against them—even if they had no prior awareness that someone was even nearby. Once they've seen an attack once before, their body will naturally learn the patterns of movement needed to evade it going forward, executing them instinctively every next time they're utilized.

The conditions of the spar between Almace and Nora are that Nora would be declared the victor if she could land three consecutive hits on Almace. The fight had a time limit of five minutes, and she managed to hit her all three times within the last minute. Within the span of four minutes, Nora managed to garner enough skill to outdo the natural skill of Arkane Nekomatas.

Overthinking also plays a role in this. During the spar, Nora was unable to hit Almace for four minutes straight, causing her to become stressed and embarrassed about the situation. Throughout the match, Nora kept on thinking about the situation, how she was not good enough, how she wished she were stronger, and overall had a plethora of thoughts about how she wished she were better. This drove her desire to "land a hit" to an all-time high, thus increasing her ID. As I mentioned, this increase in ID plays into her ability, specifically her minor probability manipulation. The higher her ID is, the stronger she becomes and the more likely she is to warp the probability of the world around her to get her way.

Not only did Nora get stronger, faster, and more skilled, but she also increased the probability of her desires happening, all because she kept thinking about it and raising her ID.

The longer the match takes, the harder it becomes for Asuna.
The probability manipulation is definitely one of the main issues I was going to bring up, but one pattern I'm noticing here is that these are all spars with rules and things like that, not real battles with malice involved where she'd be at serious risk of getting majorly wounded or killed.

That presents a very big problem for Nora. There's a pretty substantial difference between a sparring match in a martial arts gym and a real street fight where your life is at stake, for example.

Put simply, in an actual fight, the amount of leeway she'd get to use that adaptability would be a lot more minimal. So my new question is, how many of these could she have actually won if they were straight up 1v1 brawls?

While it's still impressive, the conditions here are very different, especially against an opponent who can also adapt quickly and likely end the fight outright with one attack if things start to get tough or drag on too long for Asuna's liking. A Prominence Burst to the face for one is something that Nora seemingly has no way to see coming until Asuna uses it, and would be an attack that Nora would have no way of coming back from given the temperature is far more than enough to vaporise cells, which she'd need to recover. There's also the possibility that Asuna could target Nora's core directly if it's supposed to be an artificial soul too which we talked about on discord. I don't think ~4 minutes is nearly short enough of a timeframe to deal with all of this especially with the speed difference.
 
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The probability manipulation is definitely one of the main issues I was going to bring up, but one pattern I'm noticing here is that these are all spars with rules and things like that, not real battles with malice involved where she'd be at serious risk of getting majorly wounded or killed.
I ain't gonna lie, sparring with mega is lowkey like putting your life on the line. That MF is crazy. Like, he straight up slashed Paraco's arm off during a spar during around the same time in the story when they were travelling with Nora. And another time set her on fire. It was actually to the point that she didn't want to spar with him cus she kept getting seriously hurt "accidentally." Mind you, that was still his partner at the time.
 
The probability manipulation is definitely one of the main issues I was going to bring up, but one pattern I'm noticing here is that these are all spars with rules and things like that, not real battles with malice involved where she'd be at serious risk of getting majorly wounded or killed.

That presents a very big problem for Nora. There's a pretty substantial difference between a sparring match in a martial arts gym and a real street fight where your life is at stake, for example.

Put simply, in an actual fight, the amount of leeway she'd get to use that adaptability would be a lot more minimal. So my new question is, how many of these could she have actually won if they were straight up 1v1 brawls?

While it's still impressive, the conditions here are very different, especially against an opponent who can also adapt quickly and likely end the fight outright with one attack if things start to get tough or drag on too long for Asuna's liking. A Prominence Burst to the face for one is something that Nora seemingly has no way to see coming until Asuna uses it, and would be an attack that Nora would have no way of coming back from given the temperature is far more than enough to vaporise cells, which she'd need to recover. There's also the possibility that Asuna could target Nora's core directly if it's supposed to be an artificial soul too which we talked about on discord. I don't think ~4 minutes is nearly short enough of a timeframe to deal with all of this especially with the speed difference.
The probability manipulation is pretty decent, how it worked in that spar is indictive of how effective it would be in this fight. The reason is because Almace has
  • Passive Absorption, Probability Manipulation, and Supernatural Luck: Nekomata are sometimes mistaken for being unlucky creatures because the sight of them can spell disaster for the observer. However, in reality, they are some of the most lucky beings in existence. This is because nekomata passively absorb the luck of bystanders in proximity, making themselves more fortunate. They have no control over this ability, as it happens naturally as a byproduct of their presence. If a nekomata spends too much time around others, it is possible that they all end up dying in some grand disaster in the near future. Particularly, it has been seen that one nekomata can indirectly kill hundreds of people in this way. These misfortunate events can manifest as almost anything, from minor mistakes like slipping down a fleet of stairs to an entire city being attacked by powerful gunmen.
This is important because Nora's probability manipulation overpowered Almace's probability manipulation. Almace on the merit of her probability manipulation alone should have won that spar. Nora has less battle sense than Almace and even less experience when it comes to fights. Almace despite her inexperience too possesses inherit potential in combat as a byproduct of her Nekomata Physiology.

  • Even without having any knowledge of martial arts, nekomata have an inherent sense for combat, with an exceptional degree of understanding over movement and anatomy. This makes them fluent in the art of evasive maneuvers by default.
  • Resistance to Analytical Prediction: Nekomata do not act with any perceptible intention. They are beings of pure, instinctive purpose. Because of this, it is exceedingly hard for even martial arts masters to read or predict their movements.
Consider Almace's instinctive reaction/passive luck absorption, these are major things to consider when you realize that Nora managed to diminish the advantages of those abilities through sheer adaptation. Nora managed to hit Almace three times within the last minute of the spar, culminating in four minutes of fighting as stepping stones to reach a level of skill capable of hitting a Nekomata. This is no small feat considering Almace has Instinctive Reaction that is akin to a guaranteed auto-dodge (of the first two hits), stealth mastery that is analogous to invisibility, insane acrobatics, luck/probability manipulation, and even resistance to analytic prediction/precognition. You would be wondering how the hell Nora hit her, too.

Also, the fact that it was a spar should not minimize Nora's ability to adapt, instead it should be a case for why it should be even more effective in a life-or-death situation. When the stakes are high, Nora will be even more on edge, which will contribute to her adapting faster. Remember, her adaptation becomes more pronounced the more she overthinks a situation. As the fight continues, Asuna would have given Nora more things to consider, which in turn makes the probability shift towards Nora's desire, contributes to Nora's adaptation/accelerated development, and strengthens Nora's physical capabilities.
 
I ain't gonna lie, sparring with mega is lowkey like putting your life on the line. That MF is crazy. Like, he straight up slashed Paraco's arm off during a spar during around the same time in the story when they were travelling with Nora. And another time set her on fire. It was actually to the point that she didn't want to spar with him cus she kept getting seriously hurt "accidentally." Mind you, that was still his partner at the time.
No pain, no gain.
 
The probability manipulation is pretty decent, how it worked in that spar is indictive of how effective it would be in this fight. The reason is because Almace has
  • Passive Absorption, Probability Manipulation, and Supernatural Luck: Nekomata are sometimes mistaken for being unlucky creatures because the sight of them can spell disaster for the observer. However, in reality, they are some of the most lucky beings in existence. This is because nekomata passively absorb the luck of bystanders in proximity, making themselves more fortunate. They have no control over this ability, as it happens naturally as a byproduct of their presence. If a nekomata spends too much time around others, it is possible that they all end up dying in some grand disaster in the near future. Particularly, it has been seen that one nekomata can indirectly kill hundreds of people in this way. These misfortunate events can manifest as almost anything, from minor mistakes like slipping down a fleet of stairs to an entire city being attacked by powerful gunmen.
This is important because Nora's probability manipulation overpowered Almace's probability manipulation. Almace on the merit of her probability manipulation alone should have won that spar. Nora has less battle sense than Almace and even less experience when it comes to fights. Almace despite her inexperience too possesses inherit potential in combat as a byproduct of her Nekomata Physiology.

  • Even without having any knowledge of martial arts, nekomata have an inherent sense for combat, with an exceptional degree of understanding over movement and anatomy. This makes them fluent in the art of evasive maneuvers by default.
  • Resistance to Analytical Prediction: Nekomata do not act with any perceptible intention. They are beings of pure, instinctive purpose. Because of this, it is exceedingly hard for even martial arts masters to read or predict their movements.
Consider Almace's instinctive reaction/passive luck absorption, these are major things to consider when you realize that Nora managed to diminish the advantages of those abilities through sheer adaptation. Nora managed to hit Almace three times within the last minute of the spar, culminating in four minutes of fighting as stepping stones to reach a level of skill capable of hitting a Nekomata. This is no small feat considering Almace has Instinctive Reaction that is akin to a guaranteed auto-dodge (of the first two hits), stealth mastery that is analogous to invisibility, insane acrobatics, luck/probability manipulation, and even resistance to analytic prediction/precognition. You would be wondering how the hell Nora hit her, too.

Also, the fact that it was a spar should not minimize Nora's ability to adapt, instead it should be a case for why it should be even more effective in a life-or-death situation. When the stakes are high, Nora will be even more on edge, which will contribute to her adapting faster. Remember, her adaptation becomes more pronounced the more she overthinks a situation. As the fight continues, Asuna would have given Nora more things to consider, which in turn makes the probability shift towards Nora's desire, contributes to Nora's adaptation/accelerated development, and strengthens Nora's physical capabilities.
Sure, I'm not saying it's not helpful at all, but the same logic also applies for Nora's opponents. They'd be much more willing to use extreme measures as well which is a huge factor here as I mentioned earlier.

Except in the case of mega it seems (Who she didn't seem to learn much from anyway in comparison, just "Fundamentals") Nora arguably had an advantage when facing Almace from what it looks like, being given plenty of time to match their abilities and all. You've talked about how Nora can adapt many times already, but you haven't really answered my question about whether an ambiguously faster adaptation would actually save her in a much more strenuous situation.

What exactly is stopping Asuna from winning before Nora's probability manipulation kicks in? Even if Nora can cut the time she needs to adapt in half, that's still quite a bit of time for Asuna to decide that enough is enough.
 
What exactly is stopping Asuna from winning before Nora's probability manipulation kicks in? Even if Nora can cut the time she needs to adapt in half, that's still quite a bit of time for Asuna to decide that enough is enough.
I just have one question, which is what exactly are you saying would allow Asuna to win that quickly? Nora holds the AP and Durability advantages, and has a sword so massive it can double as a full-body shield. Keep in mind, her sword is indestructible as well.
 
I just have one question, which is what exactly are you saying would allow Asuna to win that quickly? Nora holds the AP and Durability advantages, and has a sword so massive it can double as a full-body shield. Keep in mind, her sword is indestructible as well.
A Prominence Burst to the face for one is something that Nora seemingly has no way to see coming until Asuna uses it, and would be an attack that Nora would have no way of coming back from given the temperature is far more than enough to vaporise cells, which she'd need to recover. There's also the possibility that Asuna could target Nora's core directly if it's supposed to be an artificial soul too which we talked about on discord. I don't think ~4 minutes is nearly short enough of a timeframe to deal with all of this especially with the speed difference.
Mainly these two things
 
Mainly these two things
I feel like it's a bit crazy to say that she can vaporize someone who is 2x stronger than her right off-rip. Not to mention, it's not like Nora is made up of normal human flesh. Nor is it like heat/high temperature is such a potent hax that it would negate her durability to such an extent.

Additionally, is Prominence Burst a long range or short range attack?
 
I feel like it's a bit crazy to say that she can vaporize someone who is 2x stronger than her right off-rip. Not to mention, it's not like Nora is made up of normal human flesh. Nor is it like heat/high temperature is such a potent hax that it would negate her durability to such an extent.

Additionally, is Prominence Burst a long range or short range attack?
I mean, even if it doesn't end the fight, without resistance I doubt Nora is going to be in a very good state either way. I know she's supposed to be some sort of superhuman but it's not really an indication that her body can actually handle those sorts of temperatures.

Long-range
 
I mean, even if it doesn't end the fight, without resistance I doubt Nora is going to be in a very good state either way. I know she's supposed to be some sort of superhuman but it's not really an indication that her body can actually handle those sorts of temperatures.

Long-range
Would it help to know that she would later survive being in the primordial soup of the universe, which has a temperature of 3 to 4 million degrees Celsius? Or that a novice Arkane mage can resist attacks which can vaporize tungsten? Something that, Nora, being modeled after, should have some trace of.

Regardless, if it's long range, what stops her from just using that sword as a shield? You claim it isn't something she could react to, but why not?
 
Would it help to know that she would later survive being in the primordial soup of the universe, which has a temperature of 3 to 4 million degrees Celsius? Or that a novice Arkane mage can resist attacks which can vaporize tungsten? Something that, Nora, being modeled after, should have some trace of.

Regardless, if it's long range, what stops her from just using that sword as a shield? You claim it isn't something she could react to, but why not?
gang thats her second key and its kinda crazy. Was bout to mention how she was modeled after an Arkane too-
 
Would it help to know that she would later survive being in the primordial soup of the universe, which has a temperature of 3 to 4 million degrees Celsius? Or that a novice Arkane mage can resist attacks which can vaporize tungsten? Something that, Nora, being modeled after, should have some trace of.

Regardless, if it's long range, what stops her from just using that sword as a shield? You claim it isn't something she could react to, but why not?
I suppose but shouldn't that be on the page? No sign of that anywhere on Nora's profile, seems like a pretty major thing to leave out. Also, when exactly did she survive that first example if it was "Later"? Would it be in the same timeframe as her first key?

Well I meant it was her longest-range attack, there's not really anything that would stop her from using it up close. I mentioned this before but it's mainly because of the speed difference, you can do a lot with 2.5x generally.
 
gang thats her second key and its kinda crazy. Was bout to mention how she was modeled after an Arkane too-
I mean, did anything actually change about her composition between that key and this one... Meh.
 
Sure, I'm not saying it's not helpful at all, but the same logic also applies for Nora's opponents. They'd be much more willing to use extreme measures as well which is a huge factor here as I mentioned earlier.

Except in the case of mega it seems (Who she didn't seem to learn much from anyway in comparison, just "Fundamentals") Nora arguably had an advantage when facing Almace from what it looks like, being given plenty of time to match their abilities and all. You've talked about how Nora can adapt many times already, but you haven't really answered my question about whether an ambiguously faster adaptation would actually save her in a much more strenuous situation.

What exactly is stopping Asuna from winning before Nora's probability manipulation kicks in? Even if Nora can cut the time she needs to adapt in half, that's still quite a bit of time for Asuna to decide that enough is enough.
I want to mention that if Nora gets hit by Prominence Burst and is seriously injured, she will continue to fight until Asuna literally wipes out all her cells. Asuna is NOT the only one with crazy willpower. Nora is modeled after Arkanes... willpower is in their DNA. Let me call attention back to her spar with MEGA. MEGA was going crazy, I'm not going to lie, but Nora was crazier for not playing dead or quitting immediately. Mega was the equivalent of that one Jujutsu Kaisen clip with Naoya Zenin hitting a combo on Choso- it was NOT pretty. It was to the point that MEGA felt the need to compliment her determination in the middle of their spar.

  • "I have to give it to you, you're putting up one hell of a fight." ~ MEGA

Another thing I would like to bring attention to is Nora's unlimited stamina and High-Low regeneration. Another factor which will make the fight last much longer is how her Eidos helps boost her regenerative ability. The reason Nora's Regeneration is listed as High-Low to Low-High Overtime is because of her Eidos. The more she overthinks the situation, the more she wants (increases ID) better for herself. This sort of thinking empowers her physical stats and willpower, indicative of her Eidos percentage increase. Nora is not the type of person to become a punching bag and because of what her ability is, her emotions contribute to her accelerated development. How she feels and thinks culminates into her psychokinetic powers. When she overthinks these type of things, she becomes increasingly persistent/stubborn and stronger

Asuna is fighting a homunculus modeled after resilient beings (Arkanes), who reactively gets stronger the more she feels a particular way. Due to this overthinking and influx of emotions she becomes: more regenerative, faster, stronger, more determined.
 
I'll be a minute with my reply, more school related stuff. Prolly won't be till tomorrow for u
 
I would like to ask if Asuna's regeneration requires soul energy as a cost? Like, is it possible for her to not be able to regenerate if she ever uses all her soul energy? Or maybe a case for her if she uses too much to the point where it would prove dangerous to do so?

  • Regeneration: (High-Low, Willpower;) Through her Soul Energy, she was able to quickly heal from Head Trauma and bleeding, injuries that she had sustained during her first confrontation with a demon, with a strong burst of willpower.
 
Pretty sure Nora wins this. I don’t really see how Asuna would beat her.
 
Pretty sure Nora wins this. I don’t really see how Asuna would beat her.
Not over yet brother
I would like to ask if Asuna's regeneration requires soul energy as a cost? Like, is it possible for her to not be able to regenerate if she ever uses all her soul energy? Or maybe a case for her if she uses too much to the point where it would prove dangerous to do so?

  • Regeneration: (High-Low, Willpower;) Through her Soul Energy, she was able to quickly heal from Head Trauma and bleeding, injuries that she had sustained during her first confrontation with a demon, with a strong burst of willpower.
Oh nah, lol. Soul Energy is basically what enables users to evolve and will stuff to life, it's not really something people expend. Except in very specific circumstances, but I don't believe those are too relevant to this fight
I want to mention that if Nora gets hit by Prominence Burst and is seriously injured, she will continue to fight until Asuna literally wipes out all her cells. Asuna is NOT the only one with crazy willpower. Nora is modeled after Arkanes... willpower is in their DNA. Let me call attention back to her spar with MEGA. MEGA was going crazy, I'm not going to lie, but Nora was crazier for not playing dead or quitting immediately. Mega was the equivalent of that one Jujutsu Kaisen clip with Naoya Zenin hitting a combo on Choso- it was NOT pretty. It was to the point that MEGA felt the need to compliment her determination in the middle of their spar.

  • "I have to give it to you, you're putting up one hell of a fight." ~ MEGA

Another thing I would like to bring attention to is Nora's unlimited stamina and High-Low regeneration. Another factor which will make the fight last much longer is how her Eidos helps boost her regenerative ability. The reason Nora's Regeneration is listed as High-Low to Low-High Overtime is because of her Eidos. The more she overthinks the situation, the more she wants (increases ID) better for herself. This sort of thinking empowers her physical stats and willpower, indicative of her Eidos percentage increase. Nora is not the type of person to become a punching bag and because of what her ability is, her emotions contribute to her accelerated development. How she feels and thinks culminates into her psychokinetic powers. When she overthinks these type of things, she becomes increasingly persistent/stubborn and stronger

Asuna is fighting a homunculus modeled after resilient beings (Arkanes), who reactively gets stronger the more she feels a particular way. Due to this overthinking and influx of emotions she becomes: more regenerative, faster, stronger, more determined.
Supwill should really be on her page as well then

Anyway, regeneration helps, but it's said that if her stem cells are destroyed that process can take months to years. I don't know what her body composition is exactly made up of but if even a portion of her body is incinerated in the blast, that could still be catastrophic even if her Eidos is already high. Also, you mentioned on discord that this is generally a slow process, and the page says it's generally gashes and things like that are dealt with instantly rather than more major injuries. Also, how quickly can she actually get to a high percentage? The way it's worded on the page makes me think it's more dependant on time and how much she's getting "Toyed with". Asuna could probably still capitalise on her state if Nora doesn't recover fast enough.

This also doesn't really address the second potential wincon I brought up either. Nora has extreme willpower as well, sure, but I don't see anything on the page that indicates she can use that or anything else as a defence against something targeting her core directly, which the page seems to treat like an artificial soul. But even if that's not the intent, is Nora's core something that this kind of NPI could interact with? Never really got a definitive answer to that on discord

Also, stamina is probably the least important stat here, lol. No matter who wins, this fight probably won't last longer than a few minutes.
 
It is still strange to me that you are even saying that such a blast will vaporize Nora, when Asuna does not have the AP required to do something like that. Heat on its own isn't going to just completely negate Nora's durability, even if she was to be directly hit by it. Not to mention, Asuna's AP value in of itself comes from vaporizing demons. And that value is still 2x lower than Nora's durability.

To add to that, I can also mention again that Nora's sword is invincible. She can use that to defend herself from beam attacks, and since it is 12 feet long, that gives her plenty of range to work with even with that speed disadvantage. Nothing Asuna can do will be able to get through Gungnir due to its invulnerability.

Btw, speaking of range, Asuna is getting completely folded if she tries to do close range combat. Do you think she's just going to be able to box her way past a woman with a 12 foot sword? I don't see any degree of skill or battle IQ on Asuna's intelligence section which would make me believe she could do such a thing.
 
Asuna has 2.5x Speed Advantage.
What I will say is that this is a lot bigger than just looking at what the wiki considers a speedblitz might imply. Admittedly it is hard to really present an example for because that kind of thing simply doesn't show up that much in real life (Like, you don't really see Usain Bolt going all out trying to run away from a completely normal person), but there is this calc covering a timeslow that covers this kind of range and you can definitely see how it makes things way easier to react to.

Honestly having a twelve foot sword against that type of speed gap is probably more of a hinderance than anything, for all the range it's got a huge circumference to it's swings and it's going to be quite awkward to try to use that against someone whose directly in front of you
 
It is still strange to me that you are even saying that such a blast will vaporize Nora, when Asuna does not have the AP required to do something like that. Heat on its own isn't going to just completely negate Nora's durability, even if she was to be directly hit by it. Not to mention, Asuna's AP value in of itself comes from vaporizing demons. And that value is still 2x lower than Nora's durability.

To add to that, I can also mention again that Nora's sword is invincible. She can use that to defend herself from beam attacks, and since it is 12 feet long, that gives her plenty of range to work with even with that speed disadvantage. Nothing Asuna can do will be able to get through Gungnir due to its invulnerability.

Btw, speaking of range, Asuna is getting completely folded if she tries to do close range combat. Do you think she's just going to be able to box her way past a woman with a 12 foot sword? I don't see any degree of skill or battle IQ on Asuna's intelligence section which would make me believe she could do such a thing.
If Nora has a 'trace' of the resistance that Arkane mages possess like you mentioned earlier then sure, it might not immediately end the fight, I mentioned this earlier. But Prominence Burst isn't just straight AP, I suppose I could word it a little better on the page but it's been consistent that it's also a 'Heat ray' of sorts from the very beginning.

And also, just because Nora's AP is higher doesn't really mean she'd fully immune from the effects. Big problem is that fiction doesn't really follow reality often and thus you really need reliable feats for this kind of thing. If we treated physical durability as a universal indicator of heat resistance, then we'd have countless cases of anti-feats.💀

In addition the current value she got from more recent chapters is something she'd upscale from anyway, which has also been on the page since I added that. Nora would still hold the advantage, but the gap won't be as big as it seems. I'm still waiting for a response from nova on this as well, but she might not even need to turn Nora to ash at all.

What about width? Asuna won't need to do that at all if Nora can't hide her entire body behind the sword. Even if she can, letting Asuna out of her line of sight would be a big mistake in and of itself too.

Nora has a bigger weapon, sure, but it doesn't really mean much when her opponent is so much faster and starts off more skilled in the first place. Even disregarding things that could help like acrobatics and AD, Asuna has plenty of time to do something about Nora swinging her blade from her perspective. 2.5x is more than you think. Like, imagine an mma fight at ~40% speed. That's what Nora will look like to her. Once she dodges a swing that's a huge opportunity for her, and it's not something that Nora can just react to.
 
Honestly having a twelve foot sword against that type of speed gap is probably more of a hinderance than anything, for all the range it's got a huge circumference to it's swings and it's going to be quite awkward to try to use that against someone whose directly in front of you
I was thinking this in my latest reply, but this words it better. I also really feel this being overlooked.
 
If Nora has a 'trace' of the resistance that Arkane mages possess like you mentioned earlier then sure, it might not immediately end the fight, I mentioned this earlier. But Prominence Burst isn't just straight AP, I suppose I could word it a little better on the page but it's been consistent that it's also a 'Heat ray' of sorts from the very beginning.
I mean, Nora doesn't have any resistance listed on her page, so it's fine. I can't use anything like that unless vnova updates her page or something. So I acknowledge that heat will burn her pretty badly because of that, but I am opposed to the idea that a heat attack will vaporize her. I think you'd need a mixture of heat and attack potency for that to be the case. Since heat on its own isn't exactly a form of durability negation. It's more limited.

Not saying that she is impervious, just not going to be vaporized in one shot.

Nora has a bigger weapon, sure, but it doesn't really mean much when her opponent is so much faster and starts off more skilled in the first place. Even disregarding things that could help like acrobatics and AD, Asuna has plenty of time to do something about Nora swinging her blade from her perspective. 2.5x is more than you think. Like, imagine an mma fight at ~40% speed. That's what Nora will look like to her. Once she dodges a swing that's a huge opportunity for her, and it's not something that Nora can just react to.
Nora has the ability to alter the size of her sword and she can continuously do this if she wants to.

I'm also confused as nova did not mention anything about her being in 300%? Even though, that gives her so many powerful abilities?

Notably, she has Class G telekinesis and like, probability manipulation to align the world to her desire? I think such things are rather relevant.

Btw, the speed advantage is a big one, though, it seems less of a factor when it is someone with no ranged weapon vs someone with a ranged weapon.

Like, it has me curious on who would win between a guy who is 2.5x faster but only has boxing gloves, against a guy who is that much slower but has a katana.

I feel like, at range, the speed at which the katana crosses the circumference of a slash is still faster. Maybe enough to make up for it, alongside the range. Hm. Then again, I'm not actually sure if angular velocity applies to fights like this anyway.
 
I mean, Nora doesn't have any resistance listed on her page, so it's fine. I can't use anything like that unless vnova updates her page or something. So I acknowledge that heat will burn her pretty badly because of that, but I am opposed to the idea that a heat attack will vaporize her. I think you'd need a mixture of heat and attack potency for that to be the case. Since heat on its own isn't exactly a form of durability negation. It's more limited.

Not saying that she is impervious, just not going to be vaporized in one shot.


Nora has the ability to alter the size of her sword and she can continuously do this if she wants to.

I'm also confused as nova did not mention anything about her being in 300%? Even though, that gives her so many powerful abilities?

Notably, she has Class G telekinesis and like, probability manipulation to align the world to her desire? I think such things are rather relevant.

Btw, the speed advantage is a big one, though, it seems less of a factor when it is someone with no ranged weapon vs someone with a ranged weapon.

Like, it has me curious on who would win between a guy who is 2.5x faster but only has boxing gloves, against a guy who is that much slower but has a katana.

I feel like, at range, the speed at which the katana crosses the circumference of a slash is still faster. Maybe enough to make up for it, alongside the range. Hm. Then again, I'm not actually sure if angular velocity applies to fights like this anyway.
For sure, It would have helped to know about this beforehand but I don't think it's too big of a deal. Like I said before I don't really agree with the idea that physical durability will save you from heat at all, but what I'm getting at is that this would still be huge for Asuna either way.

Growing her sword seems like something she can only do in her second key. No mention of it in this key's abilities from what I can see either

The probability manipulation isn't something that Nora can just use on the spot, from what Nova tells me. Her ID needs to grow in percentage first, otherwise this wouldn't really be a match, lol. The telekinesis seems to also be limited to Nora's ego, when it's her ID that would mainly be activated here judging from what's been said. But if not, then the last one kinda confuses me, because Nora never seems to use it? Sounds like it'd be insanely useful in both of those spars she was in.

Well I don't think it'll be a case like that here. Nora already struggled for a long while to land any hits against Almace who similarly has pretty blatant superhuman acrobatics. Also, Asuna just needs to use hit-and-run tactics to get past that to win, she's not limited to CQC like a boxer would be. As stated earlier she's also way more agile than any real world human. It's not really hard for me to imagine her jumping over, weaving, or sliding under it.
 
The weird thing is that Nova has Nora starting at 300%, so idk what he means by her having to grow.. she'd already be at the peak of her percentages unless I'm missin' something...
 
The weird thing is that Nova has Nora starting at 300%, so idk what he means by her having to grow.. she'd already be at the peak of her percentages unless I'm missin' something...
There are no limits to her growth 🥀
 
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