TABS speed scaling downgrade thread

[Greg_the_master_of_gods]

Verse: Totally Accurate Battle Simulator

Discussion: Speed Scaling

In the current TABS speed scaling, all characters scale from dodging tank shells which makes them supersonic+ for some reason, i disagree with it because not only the amount of characters that actually can dodge bullets or tank shells is limited, but dodging tank shells doesn't make you supersonic+, that would have to be calculated to get a real result, the reasoning in the profiles is because they "Can keep up with other units, some of which can dodge tank shells" and that is just not justifiable, not only because those units use dodge skills, which buff their speeds, but because these units don't keep up with the actual units that can do the feat NOR do it when the units are moving in that speed we can see in-game, and if they kept up the exact speeds of the ones who can dodge, then wouldn't they dodge it too ? i may not have that good reasoning in this thread, but it is mainly because there's also zero proof the units that never dodge can keep up, so there's not much for me to debunk here.

Agree: Mommyleona FinePoint Alexander Mr. Bambu
(2 moderators already accepted, i think this is approved)

Disagree:

Neutral:

Wants to calculate the dodging the tank shell feat (probably nobody wants but please have pity of me and do it):

 

[Alexander]

I am 99%sure that there is no way you can dodge something based on a specific ability that you posses

 

[Mommyleona]

I agree

 

[Mr. Bambu]

So, let me understand this, because I remain unfamiliar with TABS:

All units scale to dodging tank shells, which are Supersonic+. But the dodge has no feat, and it is more a matter of circumstance than actually dodging them.

Yeah this would almost certainly require a calc. You don't scale to the full speed of a generic attack like that unless you have a calc suggesting you moved literally the same speed as it during the dodge. Dodging bullets routinely gives values far, far below bullet speeds. Attacks can also just... miss, and if they aren't actively dodging it, it isn't really a speed feat. There's nothing in the OP to help me come to a particular conclusion, so videos from either side of the discussion would be welcome, but if it is taken at face value, purely hypothetically, then this does seem wrong.

 

[Alexander]

So, let me understand this, because I remain unfamiliar with TABS:

All units scale to dodging tank shells, which are Supersonic+. But the dodge has no feat, and it is more a matter of circumstance than actually dodging them.

Yeah this would almost certainly require a calc. You don't scale to the full speed of a generic attack like that unless you have a calc suggesting you moved literally the same speed as it during the dodge. Dodging bullets routinely gives values far, far below bullet speeds. Attacks can also just... miss, and if they aren't actively dodging it, it isn't really a speed feat. There's nothing in the OP to help me come to a particular conclusion, so videos from either side of the discussion would be welcome, but if it is taken at face value, purely hypothetically, then this does seem wrong.

Here is the painter dodging a Tank shell

https://totally-accurate-battle-simulator.fandom.com/wiki/Painter_Dodge#List_of_Dodgeable_Projectiles

And there is a whole list of the things they can dodge (with this specific ability)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Here is the painter dodging a Tank shell

https://totally-accurate-battle-simulator.fandom.com/wiki/Painter_Dodge#List_of_Dodgeable_Projectiles

And there is a whole list of the things they can dodge (with this specific ability)

Could definitely be calc'd, though I wonder what to make of the fact that it is a particular ability of the Painter. Is there a reason to scale that to everyone else's speed?

 

[Alexander]

Could definitely be calc'd, though I wonder what to make of the fact that it is a particular ability of the Painter. Is there a reason to scale that to everyone else's speed?

It is a ability exclusive for two units, no body else posseses the ability to dodge apparently, most if not all units will just take attacks no matter what.
However, Samurai and Shogun can deflect attacks like arrows or bullets.

 

[Greg_the_master_of_gods]

So, let me understand this, because I remain unfamiliar with TABS:

All units scale to dodging tank shells, which are Supersonic+. But the dodge has no feat, and it is more a matter of circumstance than actually dodging them.

Yeah this would almost certainly require a calc. You don't scale to the full speed of a generic attack like that unless you have a calc suggesting you moved literally the same speed as it during the dodge. Dodging bullets routinely gives values far, far below bullet speeds. Attacks can also just... miss, and if they aren't actively dodging it, it isn't really a speed feat. There's nothing in the OP to help me come to a particular conclusion, so videos from either side of the discussion would be welcome, but if it is taken at face value, purely hypothetically, then this does seem wrong.

It's almost that, the dodge isn't circumstance, there are specific units with dodge skills that can dodge projectiles and i think most of those skills can dodge tank shells because it applies to projectiles in general, but is is mostly that.

 

[FinePoint]

So, let me understand this, because I remain unfamiliar with TABS:

All units scale to dodging tank shells, which are Supersonic+. But the dodge has no feat, and it is more a matter of circumstance than actually dodging them.

Yeah this would almost certainly require a calc. You don't scale to the full speed of a generic attack like that unless you have a calc suggesting you moved literally the same speed as it during the dodge. Dodging bullets routinely gives values far, far below bullet speeds. Attacks can also just... miss, and if they aren't actively dodging it, it isn't really a speed feat. There's nothing in the OP to help me come to a particular conclusion, so videos from either side of the discussion would be welcome, but if it is taken at face value, purely hypothetically, then this does seem wrong.

Basically, certain units have a 'dodge' ability, which on a cooldown makes them jerk to the side when about to be hit by a projectile.

You can see here that on the blue team one of the units dodges a bullet at the start, but then stops doing it because they're on cooldown.

This ability mostly doesn't care what the projectile is, be it arrow, bullet, tank shell, etc.
There are some random exceptions that seem more like game mechanics than intended weaknesses.

 

[Alexander]

They dodge it when it is basically near them already and not when it is like very far away.

 

[FinePoint]

They dodge it when it is basically near them already and not when it is like very far away.

Right. It's when they're about to be hit, and I'm pretty sure it actually triggers from behind too, but I'd have to test it.

 

[Greg_the_master_of_gods]

I agree

I'll count your vote.

 

[Greg_the_master_of_gods]

Right. It's when they're about to be hit, and I'm pretty sure it actually triggers from behind too, but I'd have to test it.

They dodge it when it is basically near them already and not when it is like very far away.

Someone would still need to calculate that and to who it applies, do you agree or disagree with the thread ? If possible, can someone calculate it ?

 

[FinePoint]

Someone would still need to calculate that and to who it applies, do you agree or disagree with the thread ? If possible, can someone calculate it ?

Anyway, as for the thread I basically agree they shouldn't all scale to the speed of a tank shell.

These particular units don't actually move that fast when dodging, it's just really impressive reaction times for them.

And I just tested it, and they do dodge even from behind and while focused on a different unit, so it actually seems like Instinctive Reaction.
This would also explain the cooldown, as you can argue they're just incapable of doing it consciously.

 

[Greg_the_master_of_gods]

Anyway, as for the thread I basically agree they shouldn't all scale to the speed of a tank shell.

These particular units don't actually move that fast when dodging, it's just really impressive reaction times for them.

And I just tested it, and they do dodge even from behind and while focused on a different unit, so it actually seems like Instinctive Reaction.

Do you count as a moderator in that thing where 2 moderators have to agree for it to count ?

 

[FinePoint]

Do you count as a moderator in that thing where 2 moderators have to agree for it to count ?

I do, yes. Bambu will as well when they respond.

 

[Alexander]

I also agree with this after a discussion, but we can still give them the reaction speed

 

[Greg_the_master_of_gods]

I do, yes.

Then we just need one moderator now, what do you propose as a valid scaling method to see what new speeds would be added ?

 

[FinePoint]

Then we just need one moderator now, what do you propose as a valid scaling method to see what new speeds would be added ?

We could probably calculate the actual speed they move while dodging, but that would be flawed since they seem to get a speed boost to allow them to dodge certain projectiles.

We could just calc how fast they swing certain weapons for combat speed, and run speed of one of the faster units.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Anyway, as for the thread I basically agree they shouldn't all scale to the speed of a tank shell.

These particular units don't actually move that fast when dodging, it's just really impressive reaction times for them.

And I just tested it, and they do dodge even from behind and while focused on a different unit, so it actually seems like Instinctive Reaction.
This would also explain the cooldown, as you can argue they're just incapable of doing it consciously.

I agree, too, by the way. I think we should figure out what they're going to scale to now, though, and what to actually do with the Painter's ability.

 

[Greg_the_master_of_gods]

We could probably calculate the actual speed they move while dodging, but that would be flawed since they seem to get a speed boost to allow them to dodge certain projectiles.

We could just calc how fast they swing certain weapons for combat speed, and run speed of one of the faster units.

I will try to do calculations, but the ideal would be having someone that is already known to be good in it, do you know who can calculate it ?

 

[FinePoint]

I agree, too, by the way. I think we should figure out what they're going to scale to now, though, and what to actually do with the Painter's ability.

Well for the reasons above, I think we can give the Painter and other dodge units Instinctive Reaction.

I think it's Painter, Quick Draw, and Super Peasant.

There's also units with a deflect/parry that works extremely similar, but for deflecting attacks instead of dodging them.

That would be Shogun, Samurai, Fencer, and Thor, I believe.

 

[Greg_the_master_of_gods]

Can i add that to the profiles ? if yes, i will add now

Well for the reasons above, I think we can give the Painter and other dodge units Instinctive Reaction.

I think it's Painter, Quick Draw, and Super Peasant.

There's also units with a deflect/parry that works extremely similar, but for reflecting projectiles instead of dodging them.

That would be Shogun, Samurai, and Thor, I believe.

 

[FinePoint]

Can i add that to the profiles ? if yes, i will add now

We need to wait for Bambu.

I can send scans for him if he needs them. I don't have recording software so I'd just have to look through YouTube though.

 

[Alexander]

That would be Shogun, Samurai, Fencer, and Thor, I believe.

Thor uses lightning from his hammer to deflect, the others are fine

 

[FinePoint]

Thor uses lightning from his hammer to deflect, the others are fine

They all deflect with a weapon. The point is that they do it instinctively.

 

[Greg_the_master_of_gods]

They all deflect with a weapon. The point is that they do it instinctively.

I forgot how to do pixelscaling right, please, there's anyone you know that can do calculations like these well ? we are not getting any good calculation from me, i just can't

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Well for the reasons above, I think we can give the Painter and other dodge units Instinctive Reaction.

I think it's Painter, Quick Draw, and Super Peasant.

There's also units with a deflect/parry that works extremely similar, but for deflecting attacks instead of dodging them.

That would be Shogun, Samurai, Fencer, and Thor, I believe.

That seems fine to me. Still ought to calc it, though. I'd rather be on the evaluating side than the calcing side, since one can be done by fewer people than the other.

 

[Greg_the_master_of_gods]

That seems fine to me. Still ought to calc it, though. I'd rather be on the evaluating side than the calcing side, since one can be done by fewer people than the other.

Please, i beg you math guy, do the math, please i pray for your name do the math, math guy, i beg it

 

[Greg_the_master_of_gods]

well i give up on doing calculations, the math isn't even the problem, i can't even get a proper scan

 

[FinePoint]

well i give up on doing calculations, the math isn't even the problem, i can't even get a proper scan

Do you not have the game? If I really have to I can download some free recording software and do some isolated tests.

 

[Greg_the_master_of_gods]

Do you not have the game? If I really have to I can download some free recording software and do some isolated tests.

I don't have the game, i used to have when i had a xbob but now i don't have a xbox anymore so i don't have the game anymore.

 

[FinePoint]

I don't have the game, i used to have when i had a xbob but now i don't have a xbox anymore so i don't have the game anymore.

Alright. I'm pretty busy today but tomorrow if you still can't find anything on YouTube let me know.

 

[FinePoint]

well i give up on doing calculations, the math isn't even the problem, i can't even get a proper scan

Also, with some clear shots it shouldn't be that hard.

We're dealing with presumably average height humans here, so some simple pixel scaling should make it easy to measure distance and speed.

If a while passes and you don't want to/can't do it, I can certainly try my hand at it.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

setting here a reminder for me to get scans and video of the tank shoot dodging feat for later

 

[Syncornize]

Do you not have the game? If I really have to I can download some free recording software and do some isolated tests.

If necessary, I can work it out using the two YouTube clips that were sent here.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Just a reminder for everyone here, we currently accept the averge TABS unity to be 1,75 meters based on Davince height

T.A.B.S new size calcs

vsbattles.fandom.com

this is important to emphazise that the AVERGE sinse Wobbler vary a lot in size, not only from troop to troop but also them selfs have diferent heights depending on random mutation, that's why the calc try to find the staff and sandbox map tiles size sinse they are standardized

 

[Alexander]

Just a reminder for everyone here, we currently accept the averge TABS unity to be 1,75 meters based on Davince height

T.A.B.S new size calcs

vsbattles.fandom.com

this is important to emphazise that the AVERGE sinse Wobbler vary a lot in size, not only from troop to troop but also them selfs have diferent heights depending on random mutation, that's why the calc try to find the staff and sandbox map tiles size sinse they are standardized

Would you try to recalc the Tank shell dodge?

 

[Alexander]

Also, for what i remember, Units that have the spin ability can create a tornado if they are powered up by cheerleaders.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Would you try to recalc the Tank shell dodge?

It's on my list of things to do