(1 Staff Approved So Far) Madness Combat Verse-Specific Abilities additions/rework

[Comiphorous]

This CRT is mostly focused on the verse-specific abilities, specifically Nevadean Physiology and Dissonant Reality.

Nevadean Physiology​

General ability additions;

• Superhuman Physical Characteristics (Even the weakest of Nevadeans are capable of tearing off heads with their bare hands) - ACCEPTED BY: Mr. Bambu

Generation 01 additions;

• Acausality (Type 4: Generation 01s are directly connected with the fundamental structure of all reality and resonate differently in reality structures of Nevada.) Lacks context and further explaination

S-3LF Energy section;
This is a new section i'd like to add at the bottom of the page. These are abilities which apply to their S-3LF, and characters who are literally just S-3LF (Dedmos, Director Phobos, Specters, Poltergeists, Hank [while in TOP], Tricky [while in TOP])

• Intangibility (S-3LFs such as Specters and Poltergeists are capable of phasing through solid matter such as walls.) - ACCEPTED BY: Mr. Bambu
• Immortality/Possession (Type 6; S-3LFs are capable of possessing other's bodies.) - ACCEPTED BY: Mr. Bambu
• Limited Portal Creation/Dimensional Travel (every S-3LF is a partial gateway to The Other Place, and with enough S-3LF they can be used to bring someone back from The Other Place as seen with Director Phobos) - ACCEPTED BY: Mr. Bambu

Resistance to;

• Dissonant Reality (All S-3LF has traces of Dissonant Reality on them, and is seemingly unaffected by it.) - ACCEPTED BY: Mr. Bambu (As a possibly)

Dissonant Reality​

I decided to restructure the whole page, giving it a nature and abilities tabber.

Additions;

• Acausality (Type 4; Due to originating from The Other Place, it should share it's aspects with it like it's own space-time that's dragged and angular.) - In question currently.
• Corruption (Type 2; Dissonance is a corrupting force from The Other Place.) - ACCEPTED BY: Mr. Bambu
• Logic Manipulation (Upon the NEXUS Core accessing The Other Place, Dissonance began warping logic within the Science Tower.) - ACCEPTED BY: Mr. Bambu (With Paraconsistent Physiology feats here)
• Fire Manipulation (Dissonance can take the form of flames, with users such as Project: Gestalt and Director Phobos using it in suchmanner. Barrels full of Dissonance in the Science Tower can ignite into flames and explode if damaged.) - ACCEPTED BY: Mr. Bambu
• Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; Dissonance is dangerous to Employers, and likely behind the reason Tricky being able to slowly damage and potentially destroy the true form of The Auditor. Employers are made up from the very fabric of logic itself, such as The Auditor or Stygian who are concepts of order and death.) -In question i think?

Removal;
Possibly Duplication (Dissonant Reality is direct cause of the second past incarnation of Hank appearing in The Other Place) - ACCEPTED BY: Mr. Bambu

I'd like to remove this, as this is more likely an ability of The Other Place specifically rather than Dissonance alone, as it has shown to creations of others as seen in Deimos Adventures when it created clones of Sanford.

Here is what the additions would look formatted onto the pages;

Nevadean Physiology (Madness Combat)

vsbattles.fandom.com

dissonance

vsbattles.fandom.com

Class K LS upgrade​

it's fairly blatant, but Jesus crushes an Engineer into nothing but paste here, which is Class K. So everyone who scales to Jesus should be upgraded to Class K, which is basically every tier 8 in the verse. Christoff did not crush the whole Engineer, (missed a hand) and cannot be used.

 

[Employe]

• Law Manipulation (Upon the NEXUS Core accessing The Other Place, Dissonance began warping logic within the Science Tower.)

"Logic" and "Laws" are recently were accepted to be separated concepts, with both having their own respective "Logic Manipulation" and "Law Manipulation" abilities. Dissonant is the first one

Dissonant having Logic Manip/Destruction is also very consistent with how it is described to badly damage Employers aka beings of pure logic

 

[Comiphorous]

"Logic" and "Laws" are recently were accepted to be separated concepts, with both having their own respective "Logic Manipulation" and "Law Manipulation" abilities. Dissonant is the first one

Dissonant having Logic Manip/Destruction is also very consistent with how it is described to badly damage Employers aka beings of pure logic

Not currently home, but will fix it when I get back.

 

[Employe]

Although considering how strict and intricated are new rules about Logic, I'm not even totally sure if it will get approved even with all statements, lol, but let's see

 

[Employe]

Bump

 

[Employe]

I Think we should add both Heat Manipulation and Deconstruction:

Scans https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Employe/dissonant_reality

 

[Comiphorous]

I Think we should add both Heat Manipulation and Deconstruction:

Scans https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Employe/dissonant_reality

If the weapon is superheating the particles, Dissonance shouldn't get anything out of that, it's the weapon itself.

 

[Employe]

If the weapon is superheating the particles, Dissonance shouldn't get anything out of that, it's the weapon itself.

No, it seems to describe dissonant by itself especially since it also calls this as "difficult to understand" which I doubt is caused by a gun. Not to mention these projectiles are shown to be not different from other dissonant projectiles

 

[Comiphorous]

Bump. I added a final section at the bottom regarding a bunch of characters LS.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Ngl, i think the improbability drive deserves it's own page too

It has enough abilities for it and users too iirc?

 

[Comiphorous]

Ngl, i think the improbability drive deserves it's own page too

It has enough abilities for it and users too iirc?

It has more than enough abilities just by the fact it's powered by Dissonance, plus it's other various abilities it achieves with it.

It has three users (Sheriff, The Auditor, Tricky)

It could totally get it's own page, yes. Perhaps i'll work on doing something like that in a later time. (or if someone wants to do that for me!!!)

 

[XxZetsuxX]

It has three users (Sheriff, The Auditor, Tricky)

It could totally get it's own page, yes. Perhaps i'll work on doing something like that in a later time. (or if someone wants to do that for me!!!)

The minimum is 5 users, so gg, not happening (sad)

 

[Comiphorous]

The minimum is 5 users, so gg, not happening (sad)

Tough, oh well.

 

[Employe]

It has more than enough abilities just by the fact it's powered by Dissonance, plus it's other various abilities it achieves with it.

It has three users (Sheriff, The Auditor, Tricky)

It could totally get it's own page, yes. Perhaps i'll work on doing something like that in a later time. (or if someone wants to do that for me!!!)

Also Jeb and Nexus Core, since Improbability Drive is Divergence Engine

 

[Comiphorous]

Also Jeb and Nexus Core, since Improbability Drive is Divergence Engine

No. The Improbability drive uses dissonance.

Using dissonance isn’t using the ID. They’re just using the same power source.

 

[Employe]

Krinkels stated that Divergence Engine is The Improbability Drive and Jeb apparently even wanted to use it to activate reality restoration before being betrayed by Hank

 

[Employe]

Btw, I was thinking and I guess that dissonant being used to invert Gestalt's invulnerability into vulnerability, allowing him to be harmed, it is a good example of Logic Manipulation for dissonant reality

 

[Comiphorous]

bump.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Acausality (Type 4: Generation 01s are directly connected with the fundamental structure of all reality and resonate differently in reality structures of Nevada.)

There is something here, but without further elaboration, I find it to be extremely vague and probably unactionable.

Supernatural Willpower (Due to being a full MAG, they should scale to if not above Half-Mags who go through psyche crushing mental conditioning)

Nothing says they resist their psyches being crushed, though? I would interpret this as, literally, their psyches are just obliterated. Neither of them should have Supernatural Willpower for going through conditioning.

Abstract Existence (Type 1; S-3LF Energy is a person's living energy which is their mind and memories.)

It isn't purely abstraction. It contains abstract things, such as minds and memories, within it. That it is energy disputes these being mutually exclusive, nothing suggests the energy itself isn't physical. It's sort of like claiming the body must be Type 1 AE, because it contains the memories and mind of itself-- it does do the latter, but that doesn't support the assertion in of itself.

Resistance to;

• Dissonant Reality (All S-3LF has traces of Dissonant Reality on them, and is seemingly unaffected by it.)

I'll allow a possibly on this, as nothing directly confirms this, and it may be that there is another explanation.

Acausality (Type 4; Due to originating from The Other Place, it should share it's aspects with it like it's own space-time that's dragged and angular.)

I have some pensiveness on this, largely to do with the source for the scan (which, btw, you should link as "vignette" instead of "static", otherwise it breaks). It is phrased clumsily, has a few errors, and just procs a red flag or two for me, so I need to prod at that a bit. I also think it is horrifically non-specific with what it is saying. "dragged and angular" don't really mean anything in this context.

Paraconsistent Physiology (Type 2; Dissonant Reality is a substance which is non-logical in nature, to a point it strips away the very logic of whatever contacts it, replacing likelihood with improbability, up with down, and sanity with madness. Project: Gestalt after being enmeshed with Dissonant Reality, began to defy life, death and all things natural.)

Audibly said "what the **** is paraconsistent physiology, what the shit" when I saw this, I didn't know we changed the name again, we do love our pointless ******* jargon, don't we...

I can see why you're arguing for this, though, this is the phrasing of Type 2:

General: Beings which exist beyond the confines of classical logic in general, in a fashion that they may occupy both the value "true and false" or "neither true nor false" regarding any of their properties. This includes characters existing in a nondual state regarding all logical dual systems within an entire level of reality in a way that makes them occupy both or neither state of the dualities in question.

...but this is not what Dissonant Reality does. What it does is flip the switch. "true" becomes "false" and "false" becomes "true". I see that you have Logic Manipulation included later, I think that covers this adequately, and this "paraconsistent physiology" (what a ******* mouthful) isn't strictly accurate in any of its forms.

Radiation Manipulation (Is described as radioactiveseveraltimes, and radiation protective gear is stated to work against it, although not completely.) - This ability was removed in a previous CRT due to them being wrong about it being radiation, however this statement says they were always right about what it does, and their previous statements regarding it being radioactive should still be considered valid.

Radiation would classify as "what it is", not "what it does". He also elaborates on what he means when he says "what it does", in that scan. Disagree.

Likely Poison Manipulation (Is briefly referred to as a miasma, with it's effects also being described as making those affected sick.)

Just going from context clues there, I think this is less the "diseased" kind of sick and more the "raving lunatic" kind of sick. Soft disagree.

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; Dissonance is dangerous to Employers, and likely behind the reason Tricky being able to slowly damage and potentially destroy the true form of The Auditor. Employers are made up from the very fabric of logic itself, such as The Auditor or Stygian who are concepts of order and death.)

So, this is sort of putting the chicken before the egg. The Auditor does not have any abilities on his page, currently, to suggest this, and I do have some concerns with the scans themselves. Again, the source is questionable, such as the one saying the Auditor is born from the "fabric of logic", since it has spelling issues I would not expect in any formally produced thing. The WoG has like... two interpretations, and I'm assuming Krinkels is not a powerscaler, so "embodying a concept" could mean something entirely different there. He says the Auditor embodies order because he's auditing, he's orderly, which doesn't seem to be speaking on his literal makeup as a character in-universe but rather a design thing (like how characters represent evil, or good, or faith, or madness, or whatever). So overall, I am very tentative about this bit.

Class K LS upgrade​

it's fairly blatant, but Jesus crushes an Engineer into nothing but paste here, which is Class K. So everyone who scales to Jesus should be upgraded to Class K, which is basically every tier 8 in the verse.

No he doesn't. That's just blood. If you look closely you can still see the guy's body underneath there, as well as his gun. He definitely splattered him, didn't paste him.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

(the things I didn't speak on are fine btw)

 

[Comiphorous]

I have some pensiveness on this, largely to do with the source for the scan (which, btw, you should link as "vignette" instead of "static", otherwise it breaks). It is phrased clumsily, has a few errors, and just procs a red flag or two for me, so I need to prod at that a bit. I also think it is horrifically non-specific with what it is saying. "dragged and angular" don't really mean anything in this context.

Krinkles did make a comment during a stream on what he meant by this like two years ago, but it doesn't add too much more context to what he meant beyond "yeah it means exactly what you think it means"

Audibly said "what the ** is paraconsistent physiology, what the shit" when I saw this, I didn't know we changed the name again, we do love our pointless ***** jargon, don't we...

I can see why you're arguing for this, though, this is the phrasing of Type 2:


...but this is not what Dissonant Reality does. What it does is flip the switch. "true" becomes "false" and "false" becomes "true". I see that you have Logic Manipulation included later, I think that covers this adequately, and this "paraconsistent physiology" (what a ******* mouthful) isn't strictly accurate in any of its forms.

I miss when it was nonduality. Easier to remember.

I can move those feats to the logic manipulation section then.

So, this is sort of putting the chicken before the egg. The Auditor does not have any abilities on his page, currently, to suggest this, and I do have some concerns with the scans themselves. Again, the source is questionable, such as the one saying the Auditor is born from the "fabric of logic", since it has spelling issues I would not expect in any formally produced thing. The WoG has like... two interpretations, and I'm assuming Krinkels is not a powerscaler, so "embodying a concept" could mean something entirely different there. He says the Auditor embodies order because he's auditing, he's orderly, which doesn't seem to be speaking on his literal makeup as a character in-universe but rather a design thing (like how characters represent evil, or good, or faith, or madness, or whatever). So overall, I am very tentative about this bit.

I will note that out of any WoG statements, Krinkels is actually fairly consistent on referring to them in this light. Here and here you can see him talk about them fairly consistently as dependent concepts of Nevada.

No he doesn't. That's just blood. If you look closely you can still see the guy's body underneath there, as well as his gun. He definitely splattered him, didn't paste him.

Actually if you go back a few frames before he gets crushed you can see that's the baseball bat that the agent was holding. The Engineer themself is completely gone.

 

[Employe]

There is something here, but without further elaboration, I find it to be extremely vague and probably unactionable.

There is actually a feat of one of G01s being able resist and literally disconnect himself from The Machine (and existing outside of its system) and supposedly displease it with own actions. The Machine is essentially all of reality in this verse

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I will note that out of any WoG statements, Krinkels is actually fairly consistent on referring to them in this light. Here and here you can see him talk about them fairly consistently as dependent concepts of Nevada.

What does he say, in that first slip, at about 8 seconds in? "It's very ___ kinda thing"? The rest of his explanation does help your case, though he goes on to explain that the Auditor's control of his "abstraction" is still just literally auditing, not some conceptual version of it, so I'm interested in what he's comparing them to for further confirmation.

I will also say that for the second one, he seems to be describing AE Type 2, which also helps! (Although, the specificness of these WoG questions has always given me a great deal of unease)

Actually if you go back a few frames before he gets crushed you can see that's the baseball bat that the agent was holding. The Engineer themself is completely gone.

While doing this, I note another body part not pasted. That's the fella's hand, right there.

 

[Comiphorous]

What does he say, in that first slip, at about 8 seconds in? "It's very ___ kinda thing"? The rest of his explanation does help your case, though he goes on to explain that the Auditor's control of his "abstraction" is still just literally auditing, not some conceptual version of it, so I'm interested in what he's comparing them to for further confirmation.

I will also say that for the second one, he seems to be describing AE Type 2, which also helps! (Although, the specificness of these WoG questions has always given me a great deal of unease)

They are fairly specific indeed, and while it did raise my suspicion on them, overall The Employers have always been a case of where their statements in-universe and by WoG have always been weirdly hyper specific, (i'm sure theres dozen more questions like that) especially ever since The Employers were sort of retconned into being The Higher Powers which gave them just more hyper specific statements. I am all for putting a can on WoG statements though!

While doing this, I note another body part not pasted. That's the fella's hand, right there.

It does magically vanish before it fully falls behind the box, animation error???

Crushes a majority of the body though, even if one of the hands are excluded. Can't use the Class K references though i suppose.

 

[Employe]

Adding to Employers, author explicitly stated that Employers define core concepts and not vice versa, he even confirmed that Nevada will stop exist if the Employer were to die, which fits AE 1 specifically, since this means that they are conceptions themselves, whereas AE 2 character just rely on these concepts' existence and their potential death (without destroying concept itself) wouldn't affect reality

 

[Comiphorous]

Adding to Employers, author explicitly stated that Employers define core concepts and not vice versa, he even confirmed that Nevada will stop exist if the Employer were to die, which fits AE 1 specifically, since this means that they are conceptios themselves, whereas AE 2 character just rely on these concepts' existence and their potential death (without destroying concept itself) wouldn't affect reality

I posted this clip already.

There is actually a feat of one of G01s being able resist and literally disconnect himself from The Machine (and existing outside of its system) and supposedly displease it with own actions. The Machine is essentially all of reality in this verse

If we're going to use the Arena Mode Player as proof, (which i'm fairly neutral on) using the player existing in the nowhere here (as other G01s can be seen there) is better proof of that rather than what is more likely a feat specifically to the AMP

 

[Comiphorous]

For example, if we are going to use AMP, as a Generation 01 he can go to The Nowhere, a void of liminal halls which is a domain of undreamt things and untold stories of The Maker, and would cause others to cease.

I'm fairly neutral on using the AMP's feats, and if we're going to i'm only okay with using the nowhere for such scaling, as we see in MPN2 and Mash-mellow-Madness, AMP isn't the only one who can do this, unlike the feat of him removing himself from The Machine which he's only been able to do, so much so Cyber Bandits stated it's not something people can do.

 

[Employe]

It isn't purely abstraction. It contains abstract things, such as minds and memories, within it. That it is energy disputes these being mutually exclusive, nothing suggests the energy itself isn't physical. It's sort of like claiming the body must be Type 1 AE, because it contains the memories and mind of itself-- it does do the latter, but that doesn't support the assertion in of itself.

isn't being both a soul and/or life energy by itself is enough for AE 1? (which is how S-3LFs were described). Since energy intrinsically isn't a physical concept and it wasn't portrayed like it in this verse either

 

[Employe]

(0:57)
Anyway, as we can see from this video, it can be said that souls (S-3LFs):

1. Always float (as if they didn't have any physical burdens such as mass and weight)

2. Can freely phase through objectively physical objects like solid walls

3. Leave absolutely nothing behind themselves upon vanishing/being obliterated, again as if they didn't have physical properties at all

4. Can be seen leaving through bodies (see on 20:33) when playing for Offering (by literally being extracted through said physical bodies, like usually a non corporeal essence will be, the description on 3:00 also outright calls souls aka S-3LF energy to be beings' essence)

5. Explicitly called as living energy (even marked by a color green in the dialogue, lol) by one of the most knowledgeable, intelligent and trustworthy characters in the series (which is conventionally agreed to not be a physical concept) (20:22)

We genuinely have ALL reasons to consider it as non-physical and abstract and not the other way around

 

[Mr. Bambu]

(0:57)
Anyway, as we can see from this video, it can be said that souls (S-3LFs):

1. Always float (as if they didn't have any physical burdens such as mass and weight)

2. Can freely phase through objectively physical objects like solid walls

3. Leave absolutely nothing behind themselves upon vanishing/being obliterated, again as if they didn't have physical properties at all

4. Can be seen leaving through bodies (see on 20:33) when playing for Offering (by literally being extracted through said physical bodies, like usually a non corporeal essence will be, the description on 3:00 also outright calls souls aka S-3LF energy to be beings' essence)

5. Explicitly called as living energy (even marked by a color green in the dialogue, lol) by one of the most knowledgeable, intelligent and trustworthy characters in the series (which is conventionally agreed to not be a physical concept) (20:22)

We genuinely have ALL reasons to consider it as non-physical and abstract and not the other way around

That it is referred to as energy, and not a soul, is the part I clashed with before, though. Energy is a physical property, and while we have seen "abstract" energies in the past, this is not referred to so concretely; rather, we are told that this energy (which is intangible already!) carries the abstract properties with it. This does not make it abstract.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

isn't being both a soul and/or life energy by itself is enough for AE 1? (which is how S-3LFs were described). Since energy intrinsically isn't a physical concept and it wasn't portrayed like it in this verse either

No? Souls are generally regarded as incorporeal, not abstract.

 

[Employe]

That it is referred to as energy, and not a soul, is the part I clashed with before, though. Energy is a physical property, and while we have seen "abstract" energies in the past, this is not referred to so concretely; rather, we are told that this energy (which is intangible already!) carries the abstract properties with it. This does not make it abstract.

S-3LF is energy, though. S-3LF is functionally a soul. Also energy isn't a physical property to my knowledge and at least it isn't shown to be physical going by examples above

 

[Mr. Bambu]

S-3LF is energy, though. S-3LF is functionally a soul. Also energy isn't a physical property to my knowledge and at least it isn't shown to be physical going by examples above

I am aware S-3LF is energy. That is what I am saying. I am also aware it is functionally a soul. Neither of these things are inherently abstract. That they contain memories and the mind, also is not abstract, even though these properties in of themselves are abstract things. Energy is regarded as merely intangible, and the soul is regarded as generically incorporeal.

 

[Employe]

I mean, but minds/memories are not really shown to be separated aspects from souls, not in the same vein as souls and bodies

 

[Diamond_Drone]

it's fairly blatant, but Jesus crushes an Engineer into nothing but paste here, which is Class K. So everyone who scales to Jesus should be upgraded to Class K, which is basically every tier 8 in the verse.

Reading the linked calc and watching the clip, shouldn't the Class 25 value be used instead? The impact is pretty sudden and not exactly sustained or gradually increased.

 

[Employe]

I am aware S-3LF is energy. That is what I am saying. I am also aware it is functionally a soul. Neither of these things are inherently abstract. That they contain memories and the mind, also is not abstract, even though these properties in of themselves are abstract things. Energy is regarded as merely intangible, and the soul is regarded as generically incorporeal.

By the way, what's your opinion on The Auditor's stuff?

 

[Employe]

Bump

 

[Delusionaltx2]

This CRT is mostly focused on the verse-specific abilities, specifically Nevadean Physiology and Dissonant Reality.

Nevadean Physiology​

General ability additions;

• Superhuman Physical Characteristics (Even the weakest of Nevadeans are capable of tearing off heads with their bare hands)

Agree with this

Generation 01 additions;

• Acausality (Type 4: Generation 01s are directly connected with the fundamental structure of all reality and resonate differently in reality structures of Nevada.)

The definition for aca4 states this

• Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This has the potential to grant them resistances to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others, depending on its shown capabilities which should be specified on the given page.

The scan says they are connected to the fundamental structure of reality then says they resonate differently in different reality structures of nevada but where does this explicitly say that their casualty is different?

S-3LF Energy section;
This is a new section i'd like to add at the bottom of the page. These are abilities which apply to their S-3LF, and characters who are literally just S-3LF (Dedmos, Director Phobos, Specters, Poltergeists, Hank [while in TOP], Tricky [while in TOP])

• Intangibility (S-3LFs such as Specters and Poltergeists are capable of phasing through solid matter such as walls.)
• Immortality/Possession (Type 6; S-3LFs are capable of possessing other's bodies.)
• Limited Portal Creation/Dimensional Travel (every S-3LF is a partial gateway to The Other Place, and with enough S-3LF they can be used to bring someone back from The Other Place as seen with Director Phobos)

Agree

Resistance to;

• Dissonant Reality (All S-3LF has traces of Dissonant Reality on them, and is seemingly unaffected by it.)

You should probably send scans for this

Dissonant Reality​

I decided to restructure the whole page, giving it a nature and abilities tabber.

Additions;

• Acausality (Type 4; Due to originating from The Other Place, it should share it's aspects with it like it's own space-time that's dragged and angular.)

Hmm, neutral on this...leaning towards agree

• Paraconsistent Physiology (Type 2; Dissonant Reality is a substance which is non-logical in nature, to a point it strips away the very logic of whatever contacts it, replacing likelihood with improbability, up with down, and sanity with madness. Project: Gestalt after being enmeshed with Dissonant Reality, began to defy life, death and all things natural.)

The definition for Paraconsistent Physiology states this

• General: Beings which exist beyond the confines of classical logic in general, in a fashion that they may occupy both the value "true and false" or "neither true nor false" regarding any of their properties. This includes characters existing in a nondual state regarding all logical dual systems within an entire level of reality in a way that makes them occupy both or neither state of the dualities in question.

Yes, dissonance does defy logic but it seems to invert logic rather than make logic completely contradictory the same way paraconstant physiology does.

Id agree with this being usable as evidence for logic manipulation

• Corruption (Type 2; Dissonance is a corrupting force from The Other Place.)

Agree

• Logic Manipulation (Upon the NEXUS Core accessing The Other Place, Dissonance began warping logic within the Science Tower.)

One of the caveats to logic manip is this

• Alterations to logic should only be listed as Logic Manipulation if truly of a fundamentally logical nature. Changes such as making 1 + 1 = 3 should for instance be listed as Mathematics Manipulation instead, as that is only a logical contradiction if one assumes the axioms of mathematics to be valid. For similar reasons, time paradoxes get listed as Acausality or Causality Manipulation and are not fundamentally considered logical contradictions.

What fundamental aspect of logic is this effecting?

• Fire Manipulation (Dissonance can take the form of flames, with users such as Project: Gestalt and Director Phobos using it in suchmanner. Barrels full of Dissonance in the Science Tower can ignite into flames and explode if damaged.)

Agree

• Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; Dissonance is dangerous to Employers, and likely behind the reason Tricky being able to slowly damage and potentially destroy the true form of The Auditor. Employers are made up from the very fabric of logic itself, such as The Auditor or Stygian who are concepts of order and death.)

So it can interact with things that exist as concepts? Shouldn't this just be conceptual NPI?

Removal;
Possibly Duplication (Dissonant Reality is direct cause of the second past incarnation of Hank appearing in The Other Place)

I'd like to remove this, as this is more likely an ability of The Other Place specifically rather than Dissonance alone, as it has shown to creations of others as seen in Deimos Adventures when it created clones of Sanford.

Here is what the additions would look formatted onto the pages;

Nevadean Physiology (Madness Combat)

vsbattles.fandom.com

dissonance

vsbattles.fandom.com

Agree with the removal

Class K LS upgrade​

it's fairly blatant, but Jesus crushes an Engineer into nothing but paste here, which is Class K. So everyone who scales to Jesus should be upgraded to Class K, which is basically every tier 8 in the verse.

From what I remember other CGMs saying,This looks a lot more like crush via KE than via LS

An actual crush could have the structure already extremely close to the dudes head and then jebus forces it down.

Not jebus picking it up from the floor, lifting it behind his own head and then swating the other guy with it

 

[Comiphorous]

The definition for aca4 states this

The scan says they are connected to the fundamental structure of reality then says they resonate differently in different reality structures of nevada but where does this explicitly say that their casualty is different?

Even if it's a vague statement, resonating differently within reality is a pretty blatant Type 4 Aca statement. Personally considering it's vague, i'd settle with a possibly statement but it ain't up to me and Bambu has already spoken on this and sees it as too vague, so ig i'm unfortunately boned on this one.

The definition for Paraconsistent Physiology states this

Yes, dissonance does defy logic but it seems to invert logic rather than make logic completely contradictory the same way paraconstant physiology does.

Id agree with this being usable as evidence for logic manipulation

Those feats have been moved to it's logic manipulation.

Is not defying life, death, and all things natural still Paraconsistent Physiology?

So it can interact with things that exist as concepts? Shouldn't this just be conceptual NPI?

Destroying concepts such as order and death is still conceptual manipulation, although Bambu has already mentioned their hesitance on giving Dissonance this ability due to how specific the question was.

 

[Employe]

One of the caveats to logic manip is this

What fundamental aspect of logic is this effecting?

It was used to invert invulnerability into vulnerability (1:22:28)