Jester vs Rat King: Jevil VS Dr. Crackpot (Deltarune VS Madness Combat)

[Comiphorous]

Jevil VS Dr. Crackpot​

• Both are 8-A
• Speed is equalized
• Battle takes place within Jevil's jail.
• Neither have prior knowledge

CHAOS CHAOS: 0
-Scales to 513.24 Tons of TNT

There is no force alive that can sink me!: 7
-Downscales from 637.5 Tons of TNT

​

 

[Poketmonsrs]

A lot of Jevil matches recently huh
So what does Dr. Crackpot start with?
Are they a Zed or just a general Nevadean? As no type is listed under the physiology, but is mentioned in their resurrection that they revived as a Zed
How do TAC-BARs work? And would they work on Deltarune bullets? What about something like the Devilsknife?

 

[Comiphorous]

So what does Dr. Crackpot start with?

This is going to sound stupid, but unless he's interrupted he's going to directly start with flaunting about himself.

After that, he's going to start with firing bolts of Magic at the opponent and going into CQC.

Are they a Zed or just a general Nevadean? As no type is listed under the physiology, but is mentioned in their resurrection that they revived as a Zed

This is regular general nevadean Crackpot.

How do TAC-BARs work? And would they work on Deltarune bullets? What about something like the Devilsknife?

the TAC-BAR is crackpot's potential for him to instinctively duck and dodge out of the way of projectiles. They would definitely work on Deltarune bullets unless they have properties that negate instinctive action like some of Madness Combat's magic. Is the devilsknife technically a bullet/projectile separate from Jevil?

 

[Poketmonsrs]

This is going to sound stupid, but unless he's interrupted he's going to directly start with flaunting about himself.

He could possibly be interrupted by this, but Jevil could also just wait it out and then do his first attack

After that, he's going to start with firing bolts of Magic at the opponent and going into CQC.

Jevil could dodge with his Teleportation and previous experience when it comes to dealing with Danmaku. Does Dr. Crackpot commonly use Thaumaturgical Magic?

the TAC-BAR is crackpot's potential for him to instinctively duck and dodge out of the way of projectiles. They would definitely work on Deltarune bullets unless they have properties that negate instinctive action like some of Madness Combat's magic.

I don’t think they have any IA Negation, but the TAC-BAR can be overwhelmed by attacks in quick succession, which Jevil could likely do with some of his Danmaku

Is the devilsknife technically a bullet/projectile separate from Jevil?

It seems to be multiple transformed Jevils (Hence why he has Duplication).
Jevil’s Dura Neg SOUL Manip makes Regeneration a non issue, but it will take roughly 2-3 hits for Dr. Crackpot to die, so they have some wiggle room to kill Jevil

 

[Comiphorous]

Jevil could dodge with his Teleportation and previous experience when it comes to dealing with Danmaku. Does Dr. Crackpot commonly use Thaumaturgical Magic?

Thaumaturgical magic is the only magic we know for certain he can use.

It seems to be multiple transformed Jevils (Hence why he has Duplication).
Jevil’s Dura Neg SOUL Manip makes Regeneration a non issue, but it will take roughly 2-3 hits for Dr. Crackpot to die, so they have some wiggle room to kill Jevil

Jevil's dura neg isn't going to be doing as much as he'd probably want it to, since souls in Madness Combat is S-3LF Energy, S-3LF and their physical body basically retain the same exact properties, including their durability. (Deimos' body and his S-3LF being brought up from the afterlife are 1-1, Phobos is still just as powerful when coming back as his S-3LF, Hank & Tricky are still the same whilst dead in the afterlife, etc)

 

[Poketmonsrs]

Thaumaturgical magic is the only magic we know for certain he can use.

Huh… Luckily those projectiles seem relatively easy to dodge compared to something like Spamton’s Danmaku

Jevil's dura neg isn't going to be doing as much as he'd probably want it to, since souls in Madness Combat is S-3LF Energy, S-3LF and their physical body basically retain the same exact properties, including their durability. (Deimos' body and his S-3LF being brought up from the afterlife are 1-1, Phobos is still just as powerful when coming back as his S-3LF, Hank & Tricky are still the same whilst dead in the afterlife, etc)

Then I suppose only Final Chaos’ Dura Neg will actually do any Dura Neg-ing (As it just completely ignores defense, not because it’s SOUL damage)

At what point is a TAC-BAR overwhelmed by attacks?
Also Jevil has a roughly 4107023.41137x LS advantage, unsure if this has any application here

 

[Comiphorous]

At what point is a TAC-BAR overwhelmed by attacks?

the TAC-BAR can be overwhelmed if they're hit with a lot of consecutive attacks such as dodging minigun fire, Dodging like 4 explosions in a row, smgs from several sources, stuff like that. I don't recall there really being a concrete number. it covers a lot of bases to protect the person, but rapid fire attacks without giving Crackpot time to breathe would overwhelm it generally.

after that, it'll go on a short cool down (i believe it's a several seconds or so) and while he's not using it and the TAC-BAR will recharge and will go back into use.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Jevil's dura neg isn't going to be doing as much as he'd probably want it to, since souls in Madness Combat is S-3LF Energy, S-3LF and their physical body basically retain the same exact properties, including their durability

It gives resistance to soul manip, but he still would have 90 hp(reminder, UTDR Soulhax kills equally strong opponent with resistance to soulhax, within 3-5 hits).
Soul and body retaining same properties prolly wouldn't help against point above specifically. Soulhax works on Frisk, for whom physical properties like durability are dictated by their SOULpower.

 

[Comiphorous]

It gives resistance to soul manip, but he still would have 90 hp(reminder, UTDR Soulhax kills equally strong opponent with resistance to soulhax, within 3-5 hits).

And crackpot is stronger than Jevil's magic, so it'll be more than 3-5 hits. Either way, doesn't really matter. Jevil's soul hax wasn't going to one shot regardless.

Soulhax works on Frisk, for whom physical properties like durability are dictated by their SOULpower.

Since when did Undertale's magic feats scale to jevil, who is in fact not in Undertale.

 

[Qurbonboev]

And crackpot is stronger than Jevil's magic, so it'll be more than 3-5 hits.

Yeah, he is a bit stronger. But like, even Rudinns(who are accepted to be x3 weaker than Gang in chapter 1) can kill Kris and Susie in 6-7 hits. So him being a bit stronger won't change things that much.

Since when did Undertale's magic feats scale to jevil?

Since it was accepted that soulhax works same way in both verses

 

[Comiphorous]

Since it was accepted that soulhax works same way in both verses

I see no mention about feats scaling between the verses, just that they now function on the same rules because both verses individually showed they work the same way.

 

[Qurbonboev]

I see no mention about feats scaling between the verses, just that they now function on the same rules because both verses individually showed they work the same way.

They function on same rules, and they def intended to work same way. So, consequently they share their feats too

 

[Comiphorous]

So, consequently they share their feats too

Prove it. Show me a feat in deltarune of them doing that exact same thing as Frisk. That CRT compared both of the verses having the same feats to give them the same functionality in a VSThread. You are taking a feat of what i can only assume is only seen in Undertale since you mentioned undertale first and not Deltarune and applied it to Deltarune, even if the feat isn't seen in that game unlike how the CRT presented it.

 

[Qurbonboev]

That CRT compared both of the verses having the same feats to give them the same functionality in a VSThread.

What do you think having same functionality entails in this context, if not DR and UT sharing their feats?

Show me a feat in deltarune of them doing that exact same thing as Frisk

And by that you mean?

 

[Comiphorous]

What do you think having same functionality entails in this context, if not DR and UT sharing their feats?

it means they used proof that they both fully ignore durability based off feats seen in both games. (Keyword here is that it's seen in BOTH games) Not only is Frisk's ability to vary in power based on their amount determination NOT related to the ability to ignore durability with magic (Frisk does not have magic), Kris nor the soul has shown the ability to do that at all. You're using a CRT based off Magic and trying to use it on a completely different system of power in the verse. Determination is not soul magic and had no bearing on that section of the CRT.

And by that you mean?

Show me Kris amping their stats using Determination. Like Frisk.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Show me Kris amping their stats using Determination

Nobody brough up Determination. What bearing does it have on this debate?
Your argument was that 90hp soulhax thingy wouldn't work on Crackpot, since his SOUL and body share same properties.
I countered with example of Frisk for whom SOUL and Physical body share durability, since SOUL is the one that dictates physical durability, yet they fall under effect of 20 HP soulhax perfectly fine

 

[Comiphorous]

Nobody brough up Determination. What bearing does it have on this debate?

Soulhax works on Frisk, for whom physical properties like durability are dictated by their SOULpower.

Their physical properties are highly tied to their determination. Their entire page is revolved around it. 99% of Frisk's thing is Determination making them stronger. What else would you be referring to here BUT their soul power that dictates their physical stats like you described? If you weren't talking about Determination you should've used any other character besides the character that primarily uses Determination for their physical stats.

Your argument was that 90hp soulhax thingy wouldn't work on Crackpot, since his SOUL and body share same properties.

I said it wouldn't work as well as it would on anyone else in this situation. Not that it wouldn't work. Because that's objectively true.

I countered with example of Frisk for whom SOUL and Physical body share durability, since SOUL is the one that dictates physical durability, yet they fall under effect of 20 HP soulhax perfectly fine

Nobody said that Crackpot would be immune to the soulhax rule. Just that his S-3LF energy shares his durability and therefore isn't as vulnerable to it as literally anyone else would be.

 

[Qurbonboev]

What else would you be referring to here BUT their soul power that dictates their physical stats like you described?

Their soulpower dictates their physical stats. For Frisk (and UT humans) body and soul share durability due to soul power, which is accepted as UES(akin to Dragon Ball Ki).
Determination amps soul power, and thus increases stats of soul and body. It's very important thing, but main mechanism is "Soulpower < physical and spiritual stats". Frisk could theoretically have no Determination at all, their soul and body would still share their stats due to soul power.
Frisk still falls under full effect of UT Soulhax(which makes them have 20 HP) regardless of facts above.
DR and UT soulhax aren't accepted to work similarly. They are accepted to be identical to each other. They are same thing. They share all their feats fully with each other. Only difference is that DR soulhax sets hp at 90, but it's quirk of Dark Worlds. Light World Kris has 20 hp

Just that his S-3LF energy shares his durability and therefore isn't as vulnerable to it as literally anyone else would be.

And I counter it by saying that he still would have 90hp as anyone else

 

[Poketmonsrs]

the TAC-BAR can be overwhelmed if they're hit with a lot of consecutive attacks such as dodging minigun fire, Dodging like 4 explosions in a row, smgs from several sources, stuff like that. I don't recall there really being a concrete number. it covers a lot of bases to protect the person, but rapid fire attacks without giving Crackpot time to breathe would overwhelm it generally.

after that, it'll go on a short cool down (i believe it's a several seconds or so) and while he's not using it and the TAC-BAR will recharge and will go back into use.

Then I’d argue most of Jevil’s attacks would be able to overwhelm the TAC-BAR wonder how much Deltarune turns are canon or not, because if they aren’t Jevil’s just spamming everything he has one after the other

Considering the Info hax projectiles seem pretty easy to dodge (also they don’t one shot people who doesn’t resist so how potent is the Info hax?) along with Dr. Crackpot seemingly mostly going the british classic of shanking after shooting out some magic, I’ll currently vote for Jevil

 

[Comiphorous]

Considering the Info hax projectiles seem pretty easy to dodge (also they don’t one shot people who doesn’t resist so how potent is the Info hax?) along with Dr. Crackpot seemingly mostly going the british classic of shanking after shooting out some magic, I’ll currently vote for Jevil

Deimos and Sanford's profiles are outdated and they're missing a lot of resistances, unfortunately.

And, Crackpot outskills pretty horribly in combat, so him going into CQC is borderline detrimental to Jevil if he doesn't keep his distance. (not sure if he even bothers to do CQC or would stop Crackpot from getting up close anyways, we never really see him do either)

 

[Poketmonsrs]

Deimos and Sanford's profiles are outdated, they're missing a lot of resistances, unfortunately.

Damn. Don’t know if just Deimos and Sandford are outdated, but if more profiles are, you might want to check out this thread

And, Crackpot outskills pretty horribly in combat, so him going into CQC is borderline detrimental to Jevil if he doesn't keep his distance. (not sure if he even bothers to do CQC or would stop Crackpot from getting up close anyways, we never really see him do either)

Oh yeah, Dr. Crackpot scales to Hank. (Yeah they kinda stand still the entire fight, most we got for dodging is him beating Spamton in fights, even when Spamton was cheating, and even then we don’t know if Jevil actually dodged or not)

 

[Comiphorous]

Damn. Don’t know if just Deimos and Sandford are outdated, but if more profiles are, you might want to check out this thread

Sanford

vsbattles.fandom.com

Yeah both are in dire need of updates, they're missing a hunk of stuff.

Oh yeah, Dr. Crackpot scales to Hank. (Yeah they kinda stand still the entire fight, most we got for dodging is him beating Spamton in fights, even when Spamton was cheating, and even then we don’t know if Jevil actually dodged or not)

He's moderately less skilled than Hank, but it's still in that ballpark since he was able to contend with Sanford and Deimos who while working together actually killed Hank.

 

[Employe]

Crackpot's Thaumaturgy is really going to be pain in butt for Jevil - it has layers into dimensionality due to it directly sourcing from The Machine itself (which is basically a god who defines all of existence including concepts, space-time and narrative) and is described as literally tearing universal fabric upon which entities are written (even if it doesn't portrayed to look super impressive in the game), so it definitely going to do very bad to Jevil. Not only this, but he is skilled enough to tag and kept characters like Sanford and Deimos who are impeccable and experienced experts in dodging of various sorts of projectile as well as just fighting in general and you have to consider it. It also slightly homes on it enemies (though it is hard to say how actually effective their homing effects are, especially since in the gameplay itself they are rather mediocre)

Besides it is pretty in character for him to just teleport away when he feels that he is getting overwhelmed

Also wouldn't Spamton make more sense for Crackpot

 

[Comiphorous]

Also wouldn't Spamton make more sense for Crackpot

Crackpot would immediately notice the strings and blow em apart with his magic imma be fr.

 

[Poketmonsrs]

So how will this affect the trout population thread?

 

[Comiphorous]

So how will this affect the trout population thread?

Crackpot does not use Dissonance, isn't a G01, and only partially resists Dissonance with optional equipment, so NOTHING! Funnily enough, he's like the one character in the whole verse who isn't affected by that CRT at all.

You could argue the S-3LF thing kinda ***** up Jevil's soul manipulation since you'd have to argue it can affect someone's mind and memories, but 99% sure his magic can harm soulless people anyways due to Ralsei so it doesn't rlly matter.

 

[Poketmonsrs]

How good is Dr. Crackpot when it comes to dodging (Outside of TAC-BAR)? As while he can fight Sanford and Deimos, I don’t think I saw him actively dodge outside of teleporting randomly. Also how good is the passive dodging the higher level TAC-BAR gives, would it help to fully dodge Jevil’s attacks?

 

[Employe]

Tac bar essentially allows to automatically dodge any projectiles flying into you as long your blue blue bar is at least slightly filled, but it can be overwhelmed if there is TOO much bullets simultaneously. For example something like shotguns are very efficient at emptying tac bars

 

[Poketmonsrs]

Tac bar essentially allows to automatically dodge any projectiles flying into you as long your blue blue bar is at least slightly filled, but it can be overwhelmed if there is TOO much bullets simultaneously. For example something like shotguns are very efficient at emptying tac bars

Yes but I’m wondering about the passive dodging mentioned, that works even when the TAC-BAR is depleted, and Dr. Crackpot’s own dodging ability, as I believe most of Jevil’s attacks would be able to overwhelm the TAC-BAR

 

[Employe]

Crackpot is also capable of casually evading Sanford attacks in melee with enormous weapons

56:43 you can see him pretty casually dodging Sanfords shots from assault rifles

On 57:15 he sucessfully dodges his melee attacks and even parries some of them

 

[Qurbonboev]

but it can be overwhelmed if there is TOO much bullets simultaneously

Does it looks like overwhelming amount of bullets to you?

 

[Employe]

Quite, but I have to check something out now

 

[Employe]

His tac bar can protect from around 30 consecutive shots before being drained and once he begins receiving severe injurie he just teleports away from me shooting into him

 

[Employe]

He also dodges some of my bullets through just avoiding via dashing, but it is overall not that effective

 

[Employe]

Also I noticed that his homing attacks are actually way more efficient than what I assumed at first and my character (who has maxed dodging skills) has issues of dodging them even when actively performing acrobatic dodging

They like almost perfectly follow me and are doomed to catch upon me if I'm just running or dashing away

 

[Employe]

Another interesting thing here is that when he hits his targets with magic it inflicts stunning effects and knocks them down, though I doubt that Jevil can survive it in the first place

 

[Poketmonsrs]

Crackpot is also capable of casually evading Sanford attacks in melee with enormous weapons

56:43 you can see him pretty casually dodging Sanfords shots from assault rifles

Yeah I’d consider most of Jevil’s attacks to be able to deplete the TAC-BAR, as it will be a constant stream of fast moving projectiles

On 57:15 he sucessfully dodges his melee attacks and even parries some of them

Huh, didn’t know you could parry. Don’t know how useful it will be when theres four melee weapons coming at Dr. Crackpot tho

His tac bar can protect from around 30 consecutive shots before being drained and once he begins receiving severe injurie he just teleports away from me shooting into him

• Jevil’s first attack consists of 5 bullets spread out each time Jevil teleports around, which he does 10 times (consistently) so 50 bullets
• 10 larger bullets shoot in a circle in either a clockwise or counter clockwise order, with a new set of bullets coming in at the same time the first set ends, doing 3 (technically 4, but attack ends right before the 4th set is sent out, don’t know if it affects anything or not) sets
• Next being multiple heart bombs that shoot out 4 heart shaped spinning shrapnel
• Devilsknife, melee weapon

For the rest you can just look and see if they would or not, imma stop counting

He also dodges some of my bullets through just avoiding via dashing, but it is overall not that effective

Dashing, with how spread out most of Jevil’s Danmaku gets, would probably be more detrimental

Also I noticed that his homing attacks are actually way more efficient than what I assumed at first and my character (who has maxed dodging skills) has issues of dodging them even when actively performing acrobatic dodging

They like almost perfectly follow me and are doomed to catch upon me if I'm just running or dashing away

Having beaten Spamton even with Danmaku and cheating, along with TP, would hopefully take care of that

Another interesting thing here is that when he hits his targets with magic it inflicts stunning effects and knocks them down, though I doubt that Jevil can survive it in the first place

If the Info hax is as potent as you said it was, yeah Jevil probably just dies if he gets with that

 

[Employe]

Crackpot spams his thaumaturgy quite often when at a considerable distance, also when he feels like his tac bar is getting penetrated and he is being ovewhelmed then he will just try to teleport away into some place into arena where Jevil didn't shoot his projectiles and try to dodge whatever will potentially try to reach him

 

[Comiphorous]

I will note that once the TAC-BAR runs out, it’s replaced with a weaker version, which then needs to be completely run out for him to be completely vulnerable.

Jevil has to run through a tac bar more than once without stopping or Crackpot will just regenerate his tacbar, with said TAC-BAR being able to keep him safe from consistent fire from Miniguns. Even jevil’s best attacks don’t have a faster bullets per second than the guns it protects the user from.

And, crackpot still knows how to fight without the tac-bar. Even if it does run out Crackpot can still dodge and fight just fine.

 

[Poketmonsrs]

Crackpot spams his thaumaturgy quite often when at a considerable distance, also when he feels like his tac bar is getting penetrated and he is getting ovewhelmed then he will just try to teleport away into some place into arena qhere Jevil didn't shoot his projectiles and try to dodge whatever will potentially try to reach him

Having beaten Spamton even with Danmaku and cheating, along with TP, would hopefully take care of that

So previous experience and TP should help

I will note that once the TAC-BAR runs out, it’s replaced with a weaker version, which then needs to be completely run out for him to be completely vulnerable.

Jevil has to run through a tac bar more than once without stopping or Crackpot will just regenerate his tacbar, with said TAC-BAR being able to keep him safe from consistent fire from Miniguns. Even jevil’s best attacks don’t have a faster bullets per second than the guns it protects the user from.

While it won’t be as fast as a minigun, unless Jevil takes turns like in the actual game, Jevil just starts using his attacks back to back. Also how good is the weaker TAC-BAR?

And, crackpot still knows how to fight without the tac-bar. Even if it does run out Crackpot can still dodge and fight just fine.

Good enough to dodge Danmaku? (Yes I know miniguns count for Danmaku, but I mean Danmaku that comes from multiple different directions, and not something as linear as gunfire)