Genshin Impact - Tier 5 + Relativistic Shenanigans

[Puppet43]

okay, so any summary regarding this thread from both OP and the OPPS?

Gonna tell u this, Gianny hasnt been paying attention to this threath after a few days, so he didnt fight back some debunks he had like Varka nor Arle not scaling

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Gonna tell u this, Gianny hasnt been paying attention to this threath after a few days, so he didnt fight back some debunks he had like Varka nor Arle not scaling

from what im seeing its just that nicole amped varka and arle so they dont scale, then its angels having separate scaling than archons so they wont be 5-B either, and also mentions of downscaling dragons to archons etc... so at this point who is tier 5 besides columbina and dottore?

 

[Frostyyyy12]

okay, so any summary regarding this thread from both OP and the OPPS?

TLDR:

1. Archons don’t scale to Zibai. It’s a mistranslation. Nobody should get 5-B there
2. The Sovereigns should not be put alongside the sinners and should be placed together with the Archons.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

TLDR:

1. Archons don’t scale to Zibai. It’s a mistranslation. Nobody should get 5-B there
2. The Sovereigns should not be put alongside the sinners and should be placed together with the Archons.

alright, what about varka and arle scaling do they get anything from pulling moon down or is it explicitly nicole feat?

 

[Frostyyyy12]

alright, what about varka and arle scaling do they get anything from pulling moon down or is it explicitly nicole feat?

Nicole feat unless more information which i doubt we’ll get.

 

[Puppet43]

and also mentions of downscaling dragons to archons etc

Thats frosty alone.
Dottore is stated to be Shade lvl
Shades extreme diff Sovereings (even with Phanes on their side) they still scale to Bina's

 

[Frostyyyy12]

Shades extreme diff Sovereings (even with Phanes on their side) they still scale to Bina's

This is headcanon by the way.

 

[MSahla]

Are y'all fine with Zibai scale to Nicole? Cause i'm making Zibai's profile rn.

 

[Frostyyyy12]

Are y'all fine with Zibai scale to Nicole? Cause i'm making Zibai's profile rn.

That should be fine given how strong Zibai is portrayed to be.

 

[MSahla]

Well, for now on, I don't really care about the scaling no more. But, of course, i have my own opinion.

 

[Puppet43]

This is headcanon by the way.

 

[Frostyyyy12]

And what part of that actually says they lasted for 40 years? Throughout the text, it doesn’t actually indicate in any way that the fight actually lasted 40 years. Just because these statements are next to each other doesn’t mean they’re directly connected.

It is a timeskip, where the text goes: “40 years have passed. The soveriegns have already been beaten and all areas of teyvat have already submitted to phanes. Now, phanes will begin creation of the new world.”

For all we know, the war could have been nearly instant, and the remaining years could have been diplomatic aftermath(the nations submitting to the heavens, PO not being hellbent on wiping out the natives), rebuilding, or even preparation for further creation.

Also, nobody ever brings up that 40 year war ever again. The 3 Moons just say that the PO changed the world right after they came, and that they were no match for the PO, which was in reference to the might of their entire planet plus them.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Nicole feat unless more information which i doubt we’ll get.

dont we already have these two scans? From what ive seen this seems like a combined feat except only Nicole gets direct rating while Arle and Varka get split value to at best 1/3rd of the value, unless something contradicts the scan i believe they scan downscale from this feat very well with the direct scaling going from Nicole herself and then those stronger than her

 

[Frostyyyy12]

dont we already have these two scans?

It is impossible to gauge their contribution from those two scans.

From what ive seen this seems like a combined feat except only Nicole gets direct rating while Arle and Varka get split value to at best 1/3rd of the value

That’s heavily speculative. They shouldn’t get anywhere near 1/3rd because it implies they’re relative to Nicole but they’re not, and that narratively doesn’t work.

I think my contentions with this downscale was already addressed by Puppet early on.

 

[MSahla]

I also believe that Varka and Arlecchino about their Moon Pulling Down feat. That one Jahoda's statement where she said Varka literally pulled the moon down, which already confirmed it that he did. Besides, isn't that the plan that Sandrone made for 3 of them (Nicole, Varka, and Arlecchino) to pull the moon down whenever that device gets 90%? That was in the cutscene. It's kinda not fair that that was just Nicole's feat whilst Arle and Varka also doing it.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

It is impossible to gauge their contribution from those two scans.

its why shared feats on wiki tend to get the value split between characters, for example this feat has calc split value into 3 because mark omni man and thadeus destroyed a planet, despite omni man being strongest there

That’s heavily speculative. They shouldn’t get anywhere near 1/3rd because it implies they’re relative to Nicole but they’re not, and that narratively doesn’t work.

Relativity would imply that they downscale from nicoles value however if they downscale to just one third of the value in gives nicole superiority over the two, which both varka admitted by asking her for protection and the cutscene itself shows

I think my contentions with this downscale was already addressed by Puppet early on.

can i see it?

 

[Frostyyyy12]

its why shared feats on wiki tend to get the value split between characters, for example this feat has calc split value into 3 because mark omni man and thadeus destroyed a planet, despite omni man being strongest there

Then i disagree with the Wiki’s methodology. It’s logically flawed to place any sort of contribution metric other than the fact that the majority of the work should have been done by the strongest person. To say that each of them did 1/3rd of the work is like saying that since 2 characters fight with another character, they must be doing equal work as well.

This is just easily dismissible through a Hitchen’s razor.

Relativity would imply that they downscale from nicoles value however if they downscale to just one third of the value in gives nicole superiority over the two, which both varka admitted by asking her for protection and the cutscene itself shows

No, you’d be saying each of them gets 1/3rd if you split it into 3. Nicole is the stronger one, so it would have to be an uneven division between the three. It implies that the gap between Nicole, an Angel, and Varka/Arle is relatively small.

For all narrative purposes, even a 0.0001% contribution from Varka and Arle could be extremely significant because maybe Nicole lacked that amount.

can i see it?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/genshin-impact-tier-5-relativistic-shenanigans.188679/post-7588246

 

[Puppet43]

And what part of that actually says they lasted for 40 years? Throughout the text, it doesn’t actually indicate in any way that the fight actually lasted 40 years. Just because these statements are next to each other doesn’t mean they’re directly connected.

It is a timeskip, where the text goes: “40 years have passed. The soveriegns have already been beaten and all areas of teyvat have already submitted to phanes. Now, phanes will begin creation of the new world.”

This is a Burden of proof on ur part, u would have to proof the fact that they got beaten in whatever time u want to believe. The game blatenly states 40 years had to pass until the Sovereings were defeated (Not to forget that Xiuhcoatl survive the fight and Apep survived this one + War of Vengance, she went against the Heavens 2 times and came out alive, why would the heavens spare's someones life that has try to kill them twice?)

(the nations submitting to the heavens, PO not being hellbent on wiping out the natives), rebuilding, or even preparation for further creation.

The nations pre Phanes arrival, where all dragons. Same dragons that not matter if Sovereings or not were heavely against Phanes rule/Creations and u think he had a hearth to speak to them as equals? Damn game tells u the only dragons that survive was because they were hiding and were "lucky"

The 3 Moons just say that the PO changed the world right after they came, and that they were no match for the PO, which was in reference to the might of their entire planet plus them.

Why would u even bring the Moons? this just means that Moons do not scale to Phanes, they are that inferior

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Then i disagree with the Wiki’s methodology. It’s logically flawed to place any sort of contribution metric other than the fact that the majority of the work should have been done by the strongest person. To say that each of them did 1/3rd of the work is like saying that since 2 characters fight with another character, they must be doing equal work as well.

again the cutscene and the statements afterwards do not imply that theres some insane difference in output between the two so theres no issue with this methodology as for 2 characters fighting another character...wiki is on whole lot extreme shit about it

This is just easily dismissible through a Hitchen’s razor.

why? if theres no contradiction about their effort i dont see why would we dismiss them having any scaling to this

No, you’d be saying each of them gets 1/3rd if you split it into 3. Nicole is the stronger one, so it would have to be an uneven division between the three. It implies that the gap between Nicole, an Angel, and Varka/Arle is relatively small.

For all narrative purposes, even a 0.0001% contribution from Varka and Arle could be extremely significant because maybe Nicole lacked that amount.

which narrative purpose makes a problem that these guys can have a 1/3 scaling to the feat, also this doesnt mean that the difference is just "small" as tiering in vsbw can have massive gap between the character even if they ap value is same or slightly higher/lower.
theres also existence of "at most" "at least" "higher" "far higher" etc..
and this

Moreover, many tiers have a massive difference between their baselines and caps. Hence, being far more powerful than a character in one tier does not necessarily qualify one for a higher rating.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/genshin-impact-tier-5-relativistic-shenanigans.188679/post-7588246

Jahoda statement is backed up by the archive itself, so she wouldnt be wrong, the only wrong assumption would be that he did it by himself and scaling him to the entire feat, which is why dividing the value of feat is much much safer option than the direct scaling

 

[MSahla]

I think the knowledgeable supporters should make a vote about the scaling, since the Mods cannot do anything about the scaling, they only evaluate about the accepted calcs.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

I think the knowledgeable supporters should make a vote about the scaling, since the Mods cannot do anything about the scaling, they only evaluate about the accepted calcs.

theres like frost with whole different scaling chain and puppet who made another scaling crt for whatever reason lol

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

The shackled mfs have returned, anyways if the 5B calc is accepted wonder why Twilight is neutral about it. Can put me down for agree

 

[MSahla]

theres like frost with whole different scaling chain and puppet who made another scaling crt for whatever reason lol

I mean we already have enough people who knows about Genshin scaling, surely it's not just both of them.

 

[Frostyyyy12]

This is a Burden of proof on ur part, u would have to proof the fact that they got beaten in whatever time u want to believe.

No, i am not burdened to prove a possibility. I am not making a positive assertion. I’m simply suggesting the possibility that the fight could’ve lasted for any amount of time because it is undefined.

The game blatenly states 40 years had to pass until the Sovereings were defeated

Not true. I have already explained that the game does not say it took 40 years for the sovereigns to be defeated.

(Not to forget that Xiuhcoatl survive the fight and Apep survived this one + War of Vengance,

Xiuhcoatl survived because he couldn’t be physically harmed. Saitama cannot punch through infinity. That does not mean he is relative to Gojo. This is a non-sequitur.

The Heavenly Principles have shown very much that they do not want to kill every single sovereign. They let Apep live even after the War of Vengeance.

Xiuhcoatl also lost to Xbalanque without any divine power while amped.

she went against the Heavens 2 times and came out alive, why would the heavens spare's someones life that has try to kill them twice?

Because the ‘Heavens’ do not care for them. If you were right, why did the Shades allow Neuvi to get his authority back? He wants to judge the Shades too.

Even after the WoV. Apep was only stopped by a Celestial Nail, they didn’t want to kill Apep.

Mavuika with Ronova’s power almost oneshot Gosoythoth, someone stronger than Xiuhcoatl. Apep also says that they needed the Abyss to even stand a chance.

The nations pre Phanes arrival, where all dragons. Same dragons that not matter if Sovereings or not were heavely against Phanes rule/Creations and u think he had a hearth to speak to them as equals?

This is linguistically incoherent. What are you even typing my guy?

Damn game tells u the only dragons that survive was because they were hiding and were "lucky"

Scan doesn’t lead anywhere. If all of them were just alive because they were hiding and they were lucky, then that debunks all your points and doesn’t imply relativity at all lmao. The only reason Apep survived is because she was lucky.

Plus, if the PO was hellbent on killing all the dragons, why would the Moons try to support him in any form?

Why would u even bring the Moons? this just means that Moons do not scale to Phanes, they are that inferior

Why would the Moons scale below the Sovereigns? The Trilune is on the level of Shades. Are you implying that the Shades are no match for the Dragons?

They were also strong enough that Nibelung had to put them in prison so that their presence won’t change the outcome of the war. So this doesn’t work either. Moreover, the Moons are backed up by the Sovereigns, if they are no match, then neither are the rest.

 

[Frostyyyy12]

again the cutscene and the statements afterwards do not imply that theres some insane difference in output between the two so theres no issue with this methodology as for 2 characters fighting another character...wiki is on whole lot extreme shit about it

This is an appeal to ignorance, blatantly. The cutscene doesn’t imply that there’s marginal difference between the two either, so how are you gauging the contribution level? That is exactly my point.

What you’re arguing is textbook an appeal to ignorance.

why? if theres no contradiction about their effort i dont see why would we dismiss them having any scaling to this

Because… that’s what a hitchen’s razor is? Anything without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. If you cannot provide any sort of tangible evidence, then it can be dismissed without it. Saying there’s no contradiction is again, just an appeal to ignorance.

which narrative purpose makes a problem that these guys can have a 1/3 scaling to the feat, also this doesnt mean that the difference is just "small" as tiering in vsbw can have massive gap between the character even if they ap value is same or slightly higher/lower.
theres also existence of "at most" "at least" "higher" "far higher" etc.. and this

That doesn’t track at all. If Nicole was much stronger than what was required to pull the moon, then why would she need to split the work between Arle and Varka? Hence, “at most”, “at least”, etc all falls apart.

1/3rd of a value means that they are in fact within a relative radius. What part of this are you not getting?

Jahoda statement is backed up by the archive itself, so she wouldnt be wrong, the only wrong assumption would be that he did it by himself and scaling him to the entire feat, which is why dividing the value of feat is much much safer option than the direct scaling

Jahoda’s statement isn’t backed up by the archive. She just says that he pulled the moon down. Does this mean that he was the only one who did most of the work? No. Because she for one:
1. Has no idea how much work Varka had to put in for the moon to come down.
2. We are not sure if she even knows Nicole’s involvement.

All the archive’s statement say is that Varka and Arle did it because of Nicole’s help. That’s all, and you still can’t get anything from it.

 

[Frostyyyy12]

Damn game tells u the only dragons that survive was because they were hiding and were "lucky"

I assume this is the statement you’re referring to:

In the kingdom of vishaps lucky enough to survive when heaven and earth collapsed, isolated by a vast sea of red soil,

This is referring to the war of vengeance, as Xiuhcoatl was already amped by the Abyss at this time, and furthermore, it’s referring to the world itself getting close to the brink of destruction, not the PO wanting to kill every single dragon.

Do you actually think the PO was unable to kill the dragons, instead of just not wanting to?

 

[PedjaTarzan]

This is an appeal to ignorance, blatantly. The cutscene doesn’t imply that there’s marginal difference between the two either, so how are you gauging the contribution level? That is exactly my point.

By diving the value into 3 literally this is how vsbw does it, and yes there is a gauge in contribution considering nicole is blatantly shown to have her power linked to the moon and the two people pulling it down, you also see varka and arle using their own power which proves they had effort into performing the said feat, i literally cannot see the invisible ignorance from this

Because… that’s what a hitchen’s razor is? Anything without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. If you cannot provide any sort of tangible evidence,

I can also dismiss there being any gap between each other or that nicole did 99% of the job and the rest did that 1% anyway If we go by this we are either giving all 3 of them the direct rating or just to nicole, or go vsbw way and divide it into 3 for everyone but by that point its on staff to decide

That doesn’t track at all. If Nicole was much stronger than what was required to pull the moon, then why would she need to split the work between Arle and Varka? Hence, “at most”, “at least”, etc all falls apart.

Because their scaling to the feat could literally be their upper cap of their scaling meanwhile nicole would literally have a direct tiering to the said value

1/3rd of a value means that they are in fact within a relative radius. What part of this are you not getting?

Relativity literally means they have to be in the same value of tier with difference in power not having enough gap so separate their value
meanwhile here nicole is 3 times stronger than them so what relativity is even here if shes just stronger than them

Jahoda’s statement isn’t backed up by the archive. She just says that he pulled the moon down. Does this mean that he was the only one who did most of the work? No. Because she for one:
1. Has no idea how much work Varka had to put in for the moon to come down.
2. We are not sure if she even knows Nicole’s involvement.

All the archive’s statement say is that Varka and Arle did it because of Nicole’s help. That’s all, and you still can’t get anything from it.

Jahoda statement acknowledges varkas effort into pulling the moon down, the archive backs if up by also acknowledging the feat, wether jahoda will know the details about the feat doesnt matter, what matters is that narrative acknowledges him and arle performing the feat so not scaling them to the feat without anything that directly shuts down their scaling to the feat doesnt work

 

[Frostyyyy12]

By diving the value into 3 literally this is how vsbw does it,

And that is flawed because you can literally not gauge the level of contribution. Woomy, can you actually prove that Varka contributed more than 0.00001%?

and yes there is a gauge in contribution considering nicole is blatantly shown to have her power linked to the moon and the two people pulling it down, you also see varka and arle using their own power which proves they had effort into performing the said feat, i literally cannot see the invisible ignorance from this

I didn’t say invincible ignorance. I said argument from ignorance. Those are two entirely different fallacies.

Varka and Arle’s power being shown does not mean they provided significant contribution. They could’ve been 0.00001% of the force needed to pull down the moon, and their powers can still be shown. What’s the issue with this interpretation?

I can also dismiss there being any gap between each other or that nicole did 99% of the job and the rest did that 1% anyway If we go by this we are either giving all 3 of them the direct rating or just to nicole, or go vsbw way and divide it into 3 for everyone but by that point its on staff to decide

Which you can, but it won’t be valid so as long as we are at an inconclusive phase. Nicole is the strongest, therefore she did the majority of the work. This means that that’s the MAXIMUM you can get from this feat. You cannot get anything more than that without further evidence. Thus why this is inconclusive at best.

Because their scaling to the feat could literally be their upper cap of their scaling meanwhile nicole would literally have a direct tiering to the said value

That is incoherent. You said that they divided contribution equally, which is 1/3rd. For that to work, Nicole would have to be at the same level, i.e, what she was doing was her maximum.

OR you’re implying she wasn’t going all out.

Relativity literally means they have to be in the same value of tier with difference in power not having enough gap so separate their value
meanwhile here nicole is 3 times stronger than them so what relativity is even here if shes just stronger than them

???If Nicole is 3 times stronger than them, then she can pull the moon down by her OWN strength, this goes circular and your argument just debunks itself.

Are you saying Nicole was just putting in 1/3rd of the force required to pull the moon? Stick with one interpretation. Either she only scales to 1/3rd of the feat, because she split the work with the two of them, or whatever i said above.

Jahoda statement acknowledges varkas effort into pulling the moon down,

It just says that he pulled the moon down. If you take it literally at face value, then it means he did all the work.

the archive backs if up by also acknowledging the feat,

Of course it does, because they did it with the HELP of Nicole. That’s what it acknowledges.

wether jahoda will know the details about the feat doesnt matter,

Then Jahoda’s an unreliable narrator.

what matters is that narrative acknowledges him and arle performing the feat

It acknowledges him and Arle performing the feat with the help of Nicole. Anything more than that is headcanon.

 

[Frostyyyy12]

You’re saying: The contribution is split into three. Meaning Varka did 1/3rd, Nicole did 1/3rd, and Arle did 1/3rd.

That means that each of them at least scale to 1/3rd of the value we got. If Nicole somehow scales three times that, then she would individually scale to the value itself, concretely.

If Nicole individually scales to that value, then she could not have done 1/3rd of the contribution. She must have done at least 95% or above. If you say she did 1/3rd of the work while being X strong, then you are saying she held back.

 

[AsterReal]

The 3 Moons just say that the PO changed the world right after they came, and that they were no match for the PO, which was in reference to the might of their entire planet plus them.

None of the sisters says that they are weaker than the Heavenly Principles. That statement comes from Nicole.

 

[Frostyyyy12]

None of the sisters says that they are weaker than the Heavenly Principles. That statement comes from Nicole.

Faced with this uninvited guest, the three guardians who represented the will of the planet debated endlessly.But whether by submission or rebellion, by battle or by death, the Lord of Hosts would mercilessly crush all that stood in its way.For this was the new world it had chosen for the children of humankind, and according to its design, both earth and sky would be reborn. Before the conquest of the day reached its fated close, the servants of the night could but bide their time...

- Aubade of the Morningstar

It implies that the Moons could not have beaten the PO at that time. Do you really think the Trilune in any way stands a chance against the PO?

I also think that Nicole is in fact, a reliable source. If Nicole isn’t, then neither is Before Sun and Moon. Which we have reason to believe it’s false.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

And that is flawed because you can literally not gauge the level of contribution. Woomy, can you actually prove that Varka contributed more than 0.00001%?

I didn’t say invincible ignorance. I said argument from ignorance. Those are two entirely different fallacies.

Yeah my bad gng

Varka and Arle’s power being shown does not mean they provided significant contribution. They could’ve been 0.00001% of the force needed to pull down the moon, and their powers can still be shown. What’s the issue with this interpretation?

It means that nicole literally dwarfs them in power so much to the point she didnt even needed them to do this, but again she did it against them, i literally dont see any reasoning to say they had any different level of output that isnt just 1/3rd because it not only works like this here but because there isnt anything else that suggests otherwise, you literally cannot say he didnt put that minimal effort unless nicole is just that much powerful or that they are that much weaker which makes 0 sense

Which you can, but it won’t be valid so as long as we are at an inconclusive phase. Nicole is the strongest, therefore she did the majority of the work. This means that that’s the MAXIMUM you can get from this feat. You cannot get anything more than that without further evidence. Thus why this is inconclusive at best.

which part here doesnt just say nicole has direct scaling and they just downscale instead

That is incoherent. You said that they divided contribution equally, which is 1/3rd. For that to work, Nicole would have to be at the same level, i.e, what she was doing was her maximum.

OR you’re implying she wasn’t going all out.

???If Nicole is 3 times stronger than them, then she can pull the moon down by her OWN strength, this goes circular and your argument just debunks itself.

Yeaah i see this, but again considering absolutely nothing says any of the 3 persons had more effort than the other theres 0 issue with the value i proposed, unless we completely throw out how this website
works

Are you saying Nicole was just putting in 1/3rd of the force required to pull the moon? Stick with one interpretation. Either she only scales to 1/3rd of the feat, because she split the work with the two of them, or whatever i said above.

kay ill stick with 1/3 for each of them

It just says that he pulled the moon down. If you take it literally at face value, then it means he did all the work.

Of course it does, because they did it with the HELP of Nicole. That’s what it acknowledges.

Then Jahoda’s an unreliable narrator.

It acknowledges him and Arle performing the feat with the help of Nicole. Anything more than that is headcanon.

Which is exactly why i went with full scaling for nicole and them having just 1/3rd of the feat
now i can see 1/3rd for everyone and that would be better than former ngl.

 

[Frostyyyy12]

It means that nicole literally dwarfs them in power so much to the point she didnt even needed them to do this, but again she did it against them,

Then she would’ve had to held back for them to contribute 1/3rd.

i literally dont see any reasoning to say they had any different level of output that isnt just 1/3rd

Again, appeal to ignorance.

because it not only works like this here

But that’s also false? Your argument is literally the same shit as Sahl saying the Shades being the concepts doesn’t matter because of Pokemon.

Tell me where VSBW said that we must apply this universally? Such a division is valid if we have evidence. We don’t.

but because there isnt anything else that suggests otherwise, you literally cannot say he didnt put that minimal effort unless nicole is just that much powerful or that they are that much weaker which makes 0 sense

Why doesn’t it make sense? It makes perfect sense. The LOTN, who is a weaker angel, gaps the traveler so hard. Nicole is a stronger angel who kept her form AND her power. So yes, the gap is blatant, and it’s huge.

which part here doesnt just say nicole has direct scaling and they just downscale instead

Because of the 1/3rd contribution?

i see this, but again considering absolutely nothing says any of the 3 persons had more effort than the other theres 0 issue with the value i proposed, unless we completely throw out how this website works

Please read the link i posted, about appeal to ignorance.

Is there any other evidence that says they put in 1/3rd of the work?

kay ill stick with 1/3 for each of them

So they’re relative?

Which is exactly why i went with full scaling for nicole and them having just 1/3rd of the feat

Refer to my next comment.

now i can see 1/3rd for everyone and that would be better than former ngl.

Then you’re saying they’re relative.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Why doesn’t it make sense? It makes perfect sense. The LOTN, who is a weaker angel, gaps the traveler so hard. Nicole is a stronger angel who kept her form AND her power. So yes, the gap is blatant, and it’s huge.

Scans or it didnt happen, NOW

 

[Mbpoops]

follow

 

[Frostyyyy12]

Scans or it didnt happen, NOW

I already explained it to you before. It’s based off the Traveler being on par with Mavuika after getting LoTN buffs, and being incomprehensibly weaker compared to her without LoTN buffs.


Nicole is one of the angels that kept both her power and her form, as said in Fischl’s Hexenkrei quest, whereas the LoTN was extremely weakened, and at the beginning of act 4, she barely had power left, albeit growing unquantifiably stronger later, but should still be much weaker than her full power.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

I already explained it to you before. It’s based off the Traveler being on par with Mavuika after getting LoTN buffs, and being incomprehensibly weaker compared to her without LoTN buffs.


Nicole is one of the angels that kept both her power and her form, as said in Fischl’s Hexenkrei quest, whereas the LoTN was extremely weakened, and at the beginning of act 4, she barely had power left, albeit growing unquantifiably stronger later, but should still be much weaker than her full power.

Based on this ig nicole keeps the rating no?
who else scales to this outside bina and dottore

 

[Frostyyyy12]

Based on this ig nicole keeps the rating no?
who else scales to this outside bina and dottore

Shades, Sinners, PO, Nibelung. Anyone who has scaling to Nicole really.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Shades, Sinners, PO, Nibelung. Anyone who has scaling to Nicole really.

Okay then, i will leave you and puppet to brawl about sovereign scaling here if you two are willing to i will go to sleep and finish the hax removal tomorrow for good

 

[Frostyyyy12]

Okay then, i will leave you and puppet to brawl about sovereign scaling here if you two are willing to i will go to sleep and finish the hax removal tomorrow for good

You will be making the Sovereign downgrade CRT soon. I’m gonna sleep soon too anyway.