Comprehensive Review of the Instant Death

[Hecky2222]

Also, please unlock the Yogiri page so I can apply the revisions to it for now. It seems that Oblivion Of The Endless may have forgotten to apply the part about removing the “Law” classification and restoring “The End.”

In case you forgot UMR clearly stated he is neutral there and you should get TL that in request group

MTL isn't allowed there. This is why your old CRT about MGK was closed.

Technically noone agreed/disagreed with first proposal.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

In case you forgot UMR clearly stated he is neutral there and you should get TL that in request group

MTL isn't allowed there. This is why your old CRT about MGK was closed.

Technically noone agreed/disagreed with first proposal.

I clarified the matter to him afterward, and he agreed with it. He then said that he only disagrees with Low 1-A and 1-A. Therefore, please review the situation before posting comments like

 

[Cipher72]

Elizhaa voted in favor of H1B and explained the matter of the Higher Universes. So all I did was mention @Reiner04 and @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless in order to know their opinion again. I did not say that I would apply it now.

You can't tag mods
I suggest replying to their messages

Edit: Can someone give me a quick run down on the accepted stuff and the stuff that's being argued ?

 

[Hecky2222]

he agreed with it

In fact by convo it was about cosmology. Read whole context where me and UMR discussed that.

He didn't agree with your Law Removal. Beside why would he agree with MTL when it just breaks our rule or you have OTL translated there? Did you forget why your previous CRT was closed cuz of MTL?

Can someone give me a quick run down on the accepted stuff and the stuff that's being argued ?

From what I remember

Celestial Foundation: Varies, 4-B for the huge ones.

The Abyss: Unknown

The Sea: Low 1-C

Higher Universes: Low 1-C

Ultimate Ensemble World: 1-C

I just copy-pasted from changes UMR recently made

From what I see there, there is up to discussion still:

Higher Universes being High 1-B
Yogiri being Law of Universe removal

 

[Azertyhuuh]

In fact by convo it was about cosmology. Read whole context where me and UMR discussed that.

He didn't agree with your Law Removal. Beside why would he agree with MTL when it just breaks our rule or you have OTL translated there? Did you forget why your previous CRT was closed cuz of MTL?


From what I remember

Celestial Foundation: Varies, 4-B for the huge ones.

The Abyss: Unknown

The Sea: Low 1-C

Higher Universes: Low 1-C

Ultimate Ensemble World: 1-C

I just copy-pasted from changes UMR recently made

From what I see there, there is up to discussion still:

Higher Universes being High 1-B
Yogiri being Law of Universe removal

What does the translation have to do with this? Did you see the reply I gave him or not? Even if the translation were exactly as you claim, it would not change anything, and his statement is completely clear. He agreed with everything except what I already told you about, so there is no need for the interpretations you are presenting.

The discussion right now is about the Higher Universes being H1B and Yogiri being 1A. As for the matter of removing the “Law” classification and restoring “The End,” it has already been approved, so there is no need for these interpretations.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I'm pretty sure basically everyone disagreed with High 1-B and 1-A so far.

So what is left to discuss?

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I'm pretty sure basically everyone disagreed with High 1-B and 1-A so far.

So what is left to discuss?

On the contrary, right now everyone agrees on H1B after Elizhaa’s explanation, and there is only one remaining approval from a supervisor, which I will apply. As for 1A, the discussion on that has not started yet.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Also, enough with comments like “everything” and similar—they are unnecessary here. Anyone who isn’t involved with Death Immediate should just observe rather than comment, because this work requires someone who has followed it closely and knows all the details to speak. Otherwise, even if you are an expert, your expertise won’t make you fully aware of the arguments or what is stated in the novel.

 

[Mizuki67]

On the contrary, right now everyone agrees on H1B after Elizhaa’s explanation, and there is only one remaining approval from a supervisor, which I will apply. As for 1A, the discussion on that has not started yet.

Literally no one agreed with H1B as of now bro Elizhaa literally just say cool doesnt mean other mods would auto agree.

 

[sukuna171]

There is no rule restricting users from interpreting the text. While formal Translation Request Thread exist, that doesn't mean regular members are prohibited from presenting their case regarding specific translations. The discussion is focused on the cosmology, and said member have simply elaborated on their views of the scans presented. Therefore, the comments are relevant and necessary. 'Unnecessary comments' would be those that fail to address the topic at hand, even in the least relevant sense, and instead pivot to something completely unrelated, such as different verses that has nothing to do with the verse (except in cases of whataboutism and such). That is not the case here. Your comment is the one unnecessary here so i am going to delete it.

Should we go ahead and close this now that the changes have been applied to the pages?

 

[Cipher72]

Celestial Foundation: Varies, 4-B for the huge ones.

Ok

The Abyss: Unknown

The Sea: Low 1-C

Higher Universes: Low 1-C

Ultimate Ensemble World: 1-C

Ok

Higher Universes being High 1-B

I thought that this was addressed by Qwas can someone tell me the summarised arguments ?

Also

There

yet

 

[Cipher72]

Should we go ahead and close this now that the changes have been applied to the pages?

I mean if OP has a reasonable argument for H1-B that's backed by mods (I believe Elizhaa ?) then I don't see the point in doing so given his 1 month ban, I say we address the arguments (since they are related to the OP itself) and not like the 1-A arguments which aren't in the OP.

 

[Reiner04]

Should we go ahead and close this now that the changes have been applied to the pages?

What was accepted has been applied yeah, but there are few things that needs to be cleared b4 this thread is closed. High 1-B has yet not been rejected. Its still up for a discussion.

Ok

Ok

I thought that this was addressed by Qwas can someone tell me the summarised arguments ?

Look at Elizhaa's last 2 posts as well as my post that sukuna quoted above.

 

[sukuna171]

In fact by convo it was about cosmology. Read whole context where me and UMR discussed that.

He didn't agree with your Law Removal. Beside why would he agree with MTL when it just breaks our rule or you have OTL translated there? Did you forget why your previous CRT was closed cuz of MTL?


From what I remember

Celestial Foundation: Varies, 4-B for the huge ones.

The Abyss: Unknown

The Sea: Low 1-C

Higher Universes: Low 1-C

Ultimate Ensemble World: 1-C

I just copy-pasted from changes UMR recently made

From what I see there, there is up to discussion still:

Higher Universes being High 1-B
Yogiri being Law of Universe removal

Celestial Foundations should probably be 2-B.

 

[Cipher72]

I am assuming this is the argument ?

Regarding the higher universes that contains multiverses of lower hierarchy than itself (with insignificant spaces), that are further part of a multiverse containing these higher universes which is further contained by the higher-higher universes; wouldn't the size of the overall 'Higher Multiverse', where each individual universe is the size of an entire 'Lower Multiverse' (1-C or Low 1-C), be significantly larger than the insignificant extra-dimensional space containing that lower multiverse? Since infinite*insignificant = infinite. While our FAQ states that destroying multiple 2-A structures is no greater feat than destroying a single one, that rule only applies to the contents (the universes), not the space that contains them. Since that space is countable here, wouldn't each higher universe still be significantly larger than the multiverse two layers below itself?

Not really,
It functions as a nested Universe yes that's correct but the magnitude of difference isn't Uncountable Infinite so it won't qualify,

In a way, yes, though not how most would think when using this word. Basically, an arbitrary object of dimension n is essentially comprised by the total sum of uncountably infinite objects of one dimension less, which may be described as lower-dimensional "slices", each corresponding to one of the infinite points of a line. For instance, a square is made of infinitely many line segments (Lined up on the y-axis), a cube of infinitely many squares (Lined up on the z-axis), and so on.
One may think of it as a multiplication between sets: For instance, the unit square [0,1]² may be expressed as the product of two unit intervals [0,1] x [0,1], which itself can be visualized as taking "copies" of the first interval and lining them up along each point of the second interval, of which there are uncountably infinitely-many, thus forming a square out of infinite line segments.

This illustrates some of the more unintuitive properties of sets with infinite elements: Namely, given a set X, it being a subset of another set Y does not imply that Y > X in terms of size. An example of this is how the set of all natural numbers contains both the odd numbers and even numbers, yet all of these sets in fact have the same number of elements.

To elaborate, a structure larger than 2-A meets the requirements for dimensional superiority over them if it either explicitly mentions an uncountably infinite number of universes or has portrayals/statements of being larger than 2-A structures to the point that even infinite multipliers on top of the size of that structure are of no relevance to it. Multiversal structures past Low 2-C frequently have a distance of unknown length along a 5th dimensional axis separating them. That isn't automatically Low 1-C, as for Low 1-C the distance must be known to be of non-insignificant size.

"On the other hand, an P(ℵ0) number of universes is Low 1-C"

Essentially the tiering system states that the difference between an n Dimensional Object and a n-1 dimensional object is Uncountable Infinite. In the scans there's no mention of an increase in degrees of Infinity. Time and Space being Infinite can't be applied here because it's just talking about possibilities and even if we generalise this statement and apply it here it wouldn't work as evidence to prove that there's an increase in cardinality for every ascension in the cycle.

Spoiler: Higher Universe Arguments

They would attempt to jump out of the dimensional space occupied by their opponent and destroy it from the outside. As they did, their opponent would jump to an even higher level universe and attempt the same thing. There should have been no end to the cycle, but suddenly there was. Touichirou's attack had erased the universe containing the UEG.

"Some of us believe in a theory like this: There are universes contained inside larger universes and so on. Why has that total collection of universes survived? If space and time are infinite, then there is a possibility that eventually an ultimate being would emerge, one that could wipe out all universes on a whim. If the possibility isn't zero, then given infinite time, it is guaranteed to happen. But it hasn't. From what we've been able to observe, once gods reach a certain threshold of power, they disappear. So there must be someone out there erasing them, right? There must be some sort of limit or criteria being applied."
"Criteria?"
The UEG had never considered that. She had believed gods were indestructible, eternal beings. She had killed any number of gods, but death was just another state of being for them, one from which they would eventually recover.
"Yeah, some people call that the Scale, others call it the Limiter. Either way, it seems something like that is out there."

UEG had appeared behind Toichiro, looking perfectly composed.

In the first place, since they had come here from entirely different worlds, it was only natural that they could both move between different universes as a matter of course.

From that point on, it was a repeated cycle of further tragedy and carnage.

In short, they would move between universes, predict the universe the opponent was moving to, and blow that universe away.

They would move outside the multiverse that encompassed the universe where the opponent was located, and attack that universe from there.

Then, the opponent would move to an even higher-order universe and launch an attack from there.
It was a never-ending cycle, but the end came abruptly.

Toichiro's attack annihilated the universe that contained UEG.

Essentially there are multiverses which contains n number of Universes there are higher-order universes that contains said multiverse and so on but neither the multiverse nor the Higher order universe contains Infinite Number of each other meaning that the higher order universe doesn't necessarily have to be a higher dimension to contain a multiverse. Since there's no increase in cardinality. A theoretically Infinite space can accomodate everything without it needing to be higher dimensional. Just like a 3-D Box can contain n Boxes that further contains n smaller boxes and so on

Blue circle: contain insignificant space housing pink universes.
Yellow circle: contains the multiverse containing insignificant spaces that is blue circle and stretches to infinite.
Black circle: same.
Adinfinitum.

Even in your very image the Black Circle shares the same dimensionality as the Blue one. I think you didn't look at the scans properly or I am missing context.
Can I get your opinions on this ?

Here

yet

A

 

[Reiner04]

I am assuming this is the argument ?

Not really,
It functions as a nested Universe yes that's correct but the magnitude of difference isn't Uncountable Infinite so it won't qualify,




Essentially the tiering system states that the difference between an n Dimensional Object and a n-1 dimensional object is Uncountable Infinite. In the scans there's no mention of an increase in degrees of Infinity. Time and Space being Infinite can't be applied here because it's just talking about possibilities and even if we generalise this statement and apply it here it wouldn't work as evidence to prove that there's an increase in cardinality for every ascension in the cycle.

Spoiler: Higher Universe Arguments

Essentially there are multiverses which contains n number of Universes there are higher-order universes that contains said multiverse and so on but neither the multiverse nor the Higher order universe contains Infinite Number of each other meaning that the higher order universe doesn't necessarily have to be a higher dimension to contain a multiverse. Since there's no increase in cardinality. A theoretically Infinite space can accomodate everything without it needing to be higher dimensional. Just like a 3-D Box can contain n Boxes that further contains n smaller boxes and so on

Even in your very image the Black Circle shares the same dimensionality as the Blue one. I think you didn't look at the scans properly or I am missing context.
Can I get your opinions on this ?

Ig if the number of universes at each layer is not infinite or unknown, then there is not really anyway to guess the size.

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Anyways, seeing as the premise that was agreed upon L1C - 1C was accepted,
I'm guessing this can be closed?
H1B - L1A was stemmed off a mistranslation from my understanding and the other support for both can be chalked down to a Gag feat, which you can't really scale, unless it has merit and from what I'm seeing for that. It has none

 

[Hecky2222]

If we reached almost end I shall summarize last argument made by @Elizhaa

Spoiler: Argument made by Elizhaa

Elizhaa made argument of this which is pretty much present in OP. One could say this alone wouldn't qualify per FAQ standards, however argument he present contained Volume 10 Chapter 19 of the light novel basically has the same events, with some cases being more explicit with dimensional space that suggests it is a dimensional jump and the evidence that UEG suggests one needs to be a higher-dimensional being or higher-order being to access this space. Furthemore Elizhaa claimed all of that got accepted by Ultima in 2021.

For supporting arguments there was present UEG transcending time and space there.

Spoiler: Counterargument made by opposite side

As Qawsed claims right now space-time containing another space-time doesn't work, hence you need to prove infinitesmal per our standards.

Elizhaa claimed to get to higher space one needs to be higher dimensional or dimensional jump hence.

Which in CRT was claimed by two scans from OTL Translator straight up wrong so there is no "dimensional jump" or "dimensional space" in raws

Moreover with exact same arguments Debunk thread by SweetDao was made

@ExcelsisBerny who possesses advanced level Japanese also claimed there is no "dimensional jump" in raws.

For anyone interested there are two raws which Elizhaa seems to argue for:

Japanese Raw: 「お主、思ったよりも高次元な存在であったな。まさかここまでとは思っておらなんだ」
Japanese Raw : 演奏はどんどんと完成度を高めていき、 滝の指導も、 音程やリズムといった指導内容が、日を追うごとに表現の仕方と いった高次元なものへと変化していった。
JRaw : 相手のいる宇宙を内包する多元宇宙の外へと移動し、そこからその宇宙を攻撃する。

If anyone there also Japanese translator we would appreciate your input

So argument of "translation is correct" doesn't work there. If Elizhaa thinks LN has different raws, one needs to present it there.

Spoiler: Argument 2 from Elizhaa

I see. In the same chapter Volume 10 chapter 19, UEG still suggests that one needed to be a higher dimensional being to access the higher universe(s) is more explicit than the translation on this, from the raws; the web novel version above basically said the same things which support a dimensional jump is possible;
「お主、思ったよりも高次元な存在であったな。

高次元 basically only is high dimension; higher dimensions (Mathematics)

Spoiler: Counterargument 2

Seems like they were countered in previous CRT so I will link SweetDao's CRT again

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I am assuming this is the argument ?

Not really,
It functions as a nested Universe yes that's correct but the magnitude of difference isn't Uncountable Infinite so it won't qualify,

No, that is incorrect. It was stated that the Abyss has a higher dimension, and dimensions simply mean possessing new axes. A higher dimension does not necessarily have to contain an infinite number of lower-dimensional spaces; it is sufficient for that dimension to meet the required size, which is 3-B or higher, to qualify for a temporal axis. This was previously explained to me by @Qawsedf234

No, they do not. A fifth-dimensional structure just means it has five spatial axis, but does not indicate it contains infinite 4D space times. For example, a cube that is 1 foot x 1 foot x 1 foot does not contain a transfinite number of 2-D planes, as the cube itself is of finite size. It's larger than a 2-D plane, but the ratio between them can't be conceptualized as you're implying. It's why on the wiki we only treat objects that are 3-B or higher as counting as sufficiently sized for a time axis.

The Abyss indeed meets the required size—and even exceeds it. The Abyss overlaps with countless Celestial Foundations, some of which are infinite in size. Since the Abyss overlaps with all these Celestial Foundations, it would therefore have an immeasurably large 2-B scale, given that some of those Foundations themselves are classified as 2-B.

This scale—even if it were smaller—would still make the Abyss eligible for a temporal axis, and it should be counted accordingly. That is why I agree with what @Reiner04 said in his explanation.

Essentially the tiering system states that the difference between an n Dimensional Object and a n-1 dimensional object is Uncountable Infinite. In the scans there's no mention of an increase in degrees of Infinity. Time and Space being Infinite can't be applied here because it's just talking about possibilities and even if we generalise this statement and apply it here it wouldn't work as evidence to prove that there's an increase in cardinality for every ascension in the cycle.

Spoiler: Higher Universe Arguments

Essentially there are multiverses which contains n number of Universes there are higher-order universes that contains said multiverse and so on but neither the multiverse nor the Higher order universe contains Infinite Number of each other meaning that the higher order universe doesn't necessarily have to be a higher dimension to contain a multiverse. Since there's no increase in cardinality. A theoretically Infinite space can accomodate everything without it needing to be higher dimensional. Just like a 3-D Box can contain n Boxes that further contains n smaller boxes and so on

Even in your very image the Black Circle shares the same dimensionality as the Blue one. I think you didn't look at the scans properly or I am missing context.
Can I get your opinions on this ?

No. The Higher Universes possess an interdimensional space. Since the Higher Universes have such a space, this indicates that each higher universe is higher-dimensional, which is exactly what we are trying to explain here and what Elizhaa has already clarified.

Daimaou nodded her head in understanding.

I think you can understand the ...... way, can't you? You can't reach me, you know. I manipulate space-time and control infinity. There is an infinite gap between you and me. It seems my attack didn't get through, but your attack didn't get through to me either...”　

The Great Demon King waved one hand carelessly. Her hand sword ripped through space. Patty could not tell what it cut through, but she could see that the Great Demon King had cut through something of his own volition.　

One of Ganze's hands fell. His right hand, with its heavy cuirass, fell, making a dull thud.　

More than pain, more than fear, the thought of unreasonableness prevailed. Distorting space and building infinite distance. Any attack is meaningless if it cannot reach you. This is the best defense Ganze has. But it was easily broken. He didn't understand the meaning. Infinite means literally limitless. No attack could ever reach him.

As shown here, we have evidence that this space is infinite / limitless, which means that the gap between the universes is truly infinite.

There is also a difference in space-time continuity. There exists a form of space-time continuity that surpasses ordinary space-time continuity, to the point that UEG itself could not even interfere with it. In short, there is a hierarchy of superior space-time continuities.

As far as she could feel, there was no doubt that this goddess was involved in the sealing. However, she couldn't remember what had happened in the past, or what kind of relationship she had with this goddess.

UEG was unprincipled and used her power to push through everything, but she could not lie to herself. In other words, she couldn't claim to have avenged this goddess without clear evidence.

Since she transcended time and space, she could at least confirm it, but she couldn't do that either. Since she had no memory of the time and space where something had supposedly happened, the existence of that time and space was too vague for the UEG to interfere with.

"What a fluffy, lazy conversation!"

UEG also confirmed that a character must possess higher dimensions in order to be able to move between these Higher Universes.

It was also indicated in the novel that characters from higher-dimensional levels view lower dimensions as merely pages, which supports that the Higher Universes are higher-dimensional as well, since the Higher Universes transcend all of that. This entire collection of universes cannot be destroyed by any god with a single strike, and even after the passage of infinite time no one has been able to destroy them. Although the gods can destroy everything in the Sea and similar realms with a single attack, and even some of the Higher Universes, there is still a limit to this, as no god is capable of destroying this entire collection of universes even after infinite time has passed, which demonstrates the level of these universes.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

I still don’t see 1B, I think chipher makes sense here

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

There is still no 1b here, not from what I'm ae

Snip.

Where does the 1C come from?? , I get the L1C but does the 1C come from the fact that the UEW encompasses everything giving it a higher structure?

 

[Cipher72]

Snip

Goat you aren't understanding my arguments, I am not talking about Abyss or L1-C or even 1-C I honestly don't care about that, heck I even argued in favour of it

Oh no, you were doing so well. L1-C actually makes sense.

UEG also confirmed that a character must possess higher dimensions in order to be able to move between these Higher Universes.

Doesn't really matter since we are already talking about increments from L1-C but can you quote the specific part that backs up this claim

It was also indicated in the novel that characters from higher-dimensional levels view lower dimensions as merely pages

Holy cropped scan of doom, I need context for that and OTL if possible and again doesn't help but let's move on.

which supports that the Higher Universes are higher-dimensional as well, since the Higher Universes transcend all of that.

“That” being ?

This entire collection of universes cannot be destroyed by any god with a single strike
Although the gods can destroy everything in the Sea and similar realms with a single attack, and even some of the Higher Universes, there is still a limit to this, as no god is capable of destroying this entire collection of universes even after infinite time has passed, which demonstrates the level of these universes.

I feel like you are going circular on this, let's assume that Gods are Higher Dimensional and have L1-C AP ofc they can't destroy the entire structure because the structure would be higher into L1-C, it could be a range issue as well. You are presupposing that Gods scale somewhere then using that to upscale this structure.

and even after the passage of infinite time no one has been able to destroy them.

Firstly which scan are you referring to ? Secondly is there a relationship between time and the number of dimensions ? As in a 3-D universe collapses after 10 years or something otherwise I fail to see the relevance between passage of time and the number of dimensions of the structure.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Goat you aren't understanding my arguments, I am not talking about Abyss or L1-C or even 1-C I honestly don't care about that, heck I even argued in favour of it


Doesn't really matter since we are already talking about increments from L1-C but can you quote the specific part that backs up this claim

Holy cropped scan of doom, I need context for that and OTL if possible and again doesn't help but let's move on.

“That” being ?

I feel like you are going circular on this, let's assume that Gods are Higher Dimensional and have L1-C AP ofc they can't destroy the entire structure because the structure would be higher into L1-C, it could be a range issue as well. You are presupposing that Gods scale somewhere then using that to upscale this structure.

Firstly which scan are you referring to ? Secondly is there a relationship between time and the number of dimensions ? As in a 3-D universe collapses after 10 years or something otherwise I fail to see the relevance between passage of time and the number of dimensions of the structure.

Do you call this a response? Honestly, it seems that you are opposing just for the sake of opposing, so I will wait for the staff’s opinion. I have already said what I had to say, and frankly only one approval remains before it is applied.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Please stop discussing the topic for now and wait for the staff’s opinion. Only one vote remains for H1B to be applied to the Higher Universes.

 

[Cipher72]

frankly only one approval remains before it is applied.

Can you tell me which staff approves of 1-B if possible

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Can you tell me which staff approves of 1-B if possible

Elizhaa apparently but we need them to confirm what they think

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Snip.

This might be a lil annoying to ask, but what are your current thoughts on what's accepted? The L1C - 1C

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Can you tell me which staff approves of 1-B if possible

Listen, you know that I’m the only supporter here, and you know what it means to be the sole person defending against all the staff and members, right? So if you haven’t followed Instant Death and the other core novels, and you’re not an expert in this work with full knowledge of the details, your comments only exhaust me. I’m forced to respond to them even though they’re incorrect, just so members or staff don’t say I’m ignoring them. You’re right—it tires me, and anyone commenting without having followed the novels tires me too. Even if you’re an expert in the ranking system, if you haven’t read the novels, you don’t have the full context.

Before starting this topic, I explicitly said I need staff and members who have experience with this work because, as you know, it’s been extremely complex and controversial for many years. If someone isn’t fully knowledgeable, their comments will only confuse things and spoil the topic.

Do you realize what would happen if I let staff vote now without knowing the work? We’d simply continue in an endless loop, opening new topics, and after that, and after that, the rankings wouldn’t remain stable or correct. Imagine six years of rankings changing every two or three months because members commenting and voting lack experience.

That’s why, in this topic, I want to end the discussion permanently. I will do my best to precisely and accurately determine the correct, stable ranking this time with the largest group of staff who are fully knowledgeable about this work and familiar with all its novels.

So anyone who hasn’t read all the novels and isn’t an expert, please do not comment in this topic, whether staff or member, for the reason I explained above. I know some people here aim to block this promotion, and I won’t stop anyone from doing so—but at the very least, you need to have read all the novels and be an expert. Only then can you act freely.

 

[Cipher72]

Snip

I C anyways which staff member agrees with 1-B or H1-B ?

 

[AlexSamDen]

Listen, you know that I’m the only supporter here, and you know what it means to be the sole person defending against all the staff and members, right? So if you haven’t followed Instant Death and the other core novels, and you’re not an expert in this work with full knowledge of the details, your comments only exhaust me. I’m forced to respond to them even though they’re incorrect, just so members or staff don’t say I’m ignoring them. You’re right—it tires me, and anyone commenting without having followed the novels tires me too. Even if you’re an expert in the ranking system, if you haven’t read the novels, you don’t have the full context.

Before starting this topic, I explicitly said I need staff and members who have experience with this work because, as you know, it’s been extremely complex and controversial for many years. If someone isn’t fully knowledgeable, their comments will only confuse things and spoil the topic.

Do you realize what would happen if I let staff vote now without knowing the work? We’d simply continue in an endless loop, opening new topics, and after that, and after that, the rankings wouldn’t remain stable or correct. Imagine six years of rankings changing every two or three months because members commenting and voting lack experience.

That’s why, in this topic, I want to end the discussion permanently. I will do my best to precisely and accurately determine the correct, stable ranking this time with the largest group of staff who are fully knowledgeable about this work and familiar with all its novels.

So anyone who hasn’t read all the novels and isn’t an expert, please do not comment in this topic, whether staff or member, for the reason I explained above. I know some people here aim to block this promotion, and I won’t stop anyone from doing so—but at the very least, you need to have read all the novels and be an expert. Only then can you act freely.

I think Reiner already told you

It doesn't matter that the staff or members haven't read the work. You are obliged to provide evidence that is sufficient to convince all participants regardless of their knowledge of the work

You also cannot simply dismiss staff opinions based on you thinking "they don't know the work"

 

[Maniaunavailable]

1B situation:

No staff agress with it yet, thats literally it, they just agree with 1C, staff told him to make another CRT for that, but as he has a 1 month ban from CRT'S, he wants to end it all here. Which to my understanding is not possible

 

[Maniaunavailable]

this are the current evaluations

Oblivion_Of_The_Endless (With everything but only up to 1-C) Reiner (With everything but only up to 1-C) Qawsedf234 ( He agrees with everything and votes that the Final Ensemble is 1-C, but does not agree with Low 1-A or H1-B, and is currently undecided at the 1-A level. )

This are his own words, he literally is taking H1B out of nowhere

Edit: My bad forgot to take the mention out

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Should get a mod to close this if what's accepted has already been applied
Id think

 

[Maniaunavailable]

It doesn't matter that the staff or members haven't read the work. You are obliged to provide evidence that is sufficient to convince all participants regardless of their knowledge of the work

Am pretty sure oblvion also read ID, so his opinion is still valid

 

[sukuna171]

Look, I understand instant death been handled horribly, but you can’t act like this—it’s not helping.

 

[Elizhaa]

If we reached almost end I shall summarize last argument made by @Elizhaa

Spoiler: Argument made by Elizhaa

Elizhaa made argument of this which is pretty much present in OP. One could say this alone wouldn't qualify per FAQ standards, however argument he present contained Volume 10 Chapter 19 of the light novel basically has the same events, with some cases being more explicit with dimensional space that suggests it is a dimensional jump and the evidence that UEG suggests one needs to be a higher-dimensional being or higher-order being to access this space. Furthemore Elizhaa claimed all of that got accepted by Ultima in 2021.

For supporting arguments there was present UEG transcending time and space there.

Spoiler: Counterargument made by opposite side

As Qawsed claims right now space-time containing another space-time doesn't work, hence you need to prove infinitesmal per our standards.

Elizhaa claimed to get to higher space one needs to be higher dimensional or dimensional jump hence.

Which in CRT was claimed by two scans from OTL Translator straight up wrong so there is no "dimensional jump" or "dimensional space" in raws

Moreover with exact same arguments Debunk thread by SweetDao was made

@ExcelsisBerny who possesses advanced level Japanese also claimed there is no "dimensional jump" in raws.

For anyone interested there are two raws which Elizhaa seems to argue for:


If anyone there also Japanese translator we would appreciate your input

So argument of "translation is correct" doesn't work there. If Elizhaa thinks LN has different raws, one needs to present it there.

I see. In the same chapter Volume 10 chapter 19, UEG still suggests that one needed to be a higher dimensional being to access the higher universe(s) is more explicit than the translation on this, from the raws; the web novel version above basically said the same things which support a dimensional jump is possible;
「お主、思ったよりも高次元な存在であったな。

高次元 basically only is high dimension; higher dimensions (Mathematics)

 

[Maniaunavailable]

高次元 basically only is high dimension; higher dimensions (Mathematics)

am not that smart what does this mean

 

[Elizhaa]

Azertyhuuh, like others said like here, staffs opinions cannot just be dismissed; the evidence presented have be better presented for arguments.
The discussion rules:

• When arguing for changing character statistics, do not assume that the staff will have in-depth knowledge about the fictional franchise in question. Make sure to explain your suggestions in a structured manner that is easy to comprehend. You will not be allowed to change any statistics if people cannot understand what you mean.
  • To reiterate, when creating content revision threads, it is best to keep your suggestions as structured and simple to understand as possible, so the staff will have an easier time evaluating the text. Avoid writing upgrade threads mainly based on assumptions from a limited amount of information, with no additional context or evidence to support them.

 

[Hecky2222]

I see. In the same chapter Volume 10 chapter 19, UEG still suggests that one needed to be a higher dimensional being to access the higher universe(s) is more explicit than the translation on this, from the raws; the web novel version above basically said the same things which support a dimensional jump is possible;
「お主、思ったよりも高次元な存在であったな。

高次元 basically only is high dimension; higher dimensions (Mathematics)

Are you arguing 高次元 again?
Didn't I link(or SweetDao's CRT) I gave you issues same problems?

I don't see how exactly one line supposed to counter his points.

Even if you don't believe just ask regarding the meaning of 高次元 in sentences @ExcelsisBerny

 

[Robo432343]

Someone please ping the staff again to reclarify their thoughts on the high 1-B proposal