Comprehensive Review of the Instant Death

[Wesker018]

• I don't see evidence for embedded spaces within higher dimensions, so the Ultimate Ensemble is 1-C unless there's more explicit math mentioned

do you actually means 1-C there or it was a typo

 

[Hecky2222]

As is known, Patty’s ability is the manipulation of space, which inherently governs both time and infinity. She can manifest that infinite space to create a literal distance between Paella and herself.

This demonstrates that the gaps between universes be it space, time, or the sheer number of Universe are all infinite. Even the higher universe, which encompasses and contains these smaller universes along with their infinite voids,

In fact all of that has nothing to do with infinitesimal sizes of higher universes

 

[Hecky2222]

do you actually means 1-C there or it was a typo

I think there cuz Qaw said higher universes and Ultimate Ensemble +1D

 

[Qawsedf234]

This demonstrates that the gaps between universes be it space, time, or the sheer number of Universe are all infinite. Even the higher universe, which encompasses and contains these smaller universes along with their infinite voids,

There's a difference between being "larger" as in infinitely bigger and having a transinfinite gap, which is the summation of all types of infinity between two levels. I'm seeing the former but not the latter. We'll the latter is there but for the totality of of this cosmology structure.

do you actually means 1-C there or it was a typo

Yeah I meant 1-C

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

After discussion with Qawsedf did you change your mind about Higher Universes or you say High 1-B is good?

I can settle up for 1-C.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

1-C yogiri

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I agree with the 1-C yeah

 

[Azertyhuuh]

The FAQ is talking about spaces that are large enough to qualify for dimensional superiority

Just being bigger isn't enough, the crux is being big enough that it's a transinfinite amount higher.


You have infinite points within a infinite space, but that's not the same as a dimensional difference. There's a transinfinite number of points between any dimensional increase within that space. Being vastly larger or containing infinite universes still isn't enough for Low 1-C or higher by itself. It needs to embed them to the point where they're infinitesimal, as in infinitely small in comparison.

It's not X < ∞ but dx or δ or 1/∞ < ∞

Alright, I can see where this is going. KLOL asked me to comment and I've commented, so digging in heels in this situation won't go anywhere.

My conclusions are as follows:

• Reviving the 2-B and Low 1-C ratings are fine
• I don't see evidence for embedded spaces within higher dimensions, so the Ultimate Ensemble is 1-C unless there's more explicit math mentioned
• All possible worlds would be be a multiverse sized contract of whatever end dimensional set is decided on
• The WoG is a leading question and can't be used in my view. If other moderators feel it is usable (as in I'm outvoted), then it would be a 1-A justification rather than Low 1-A afaik

Hope you have a good day.

Yes, I said 1A and not Low 1-A; I was referring to the Ultimate Group Low 1-A, not to Yogiri himself.

Reiner and some others agree with this statement because the author’s answer was not a simple yes or no. It was a full five-line explanation. Moreover, the question was not intended to increase Yogiri’s power, as some might think; rather, it was asked to understand the true nature of Yogiri, which cannot be grasped even through the concept of dimensions. We discussed this because the author receives thousands of questions aimed at boosting power, yet he never answers those. This was the only answer he provided, and he did so because the question aimed to understand Yogiri’s nature. In his response, he used five lines to explain the matter. As I mentioned, this was the only question he answered, and he answered it because it was necessary for understanding the matter, while he did not respond to any other questions aimed at increasing power. This highlights the importance of this question.

Reiner and some others here agreed, and we discussed this matter as I told you. What about you? Do you object, or do you have no problem with it given what I have explained?

 

[AlexSamDen]

Yes, I said 1A and not Low 1-A; I was referring to the Ultimate Group Low 1-A, not to Yogiri himself.

Reiner and some others agree with this statement because the author’s answer was not a simple yes or no. It was a full five-line explanation. Moreover, the question was not intended to increase Yogiri’s power, as some might think; rather, it was asked to understand the true nature of Yogiri, which cannot be grasped even through the concept of dimensions. We discussed this because the author receives thousands of questions aimed at boosting power, yet he never answers those. This was the only answer he provided, and he did so because the question aimed to understand Yogiri’s nature. In his response, he used five lines to explain the matter. As I mentioned, this was the only question he answered, and he answered it because it was necessary for understanding the matter, while he did not respond to any other questions aimed at increasing power. This highlights the importance of this question.

Reiner and some others here agreed, and we discussed this matter as I told you. What about you? Do you object, or do you have no problem with it given what I have explained?

I'm still waiting for the sources of translations for both the question and the response btw

 

[Hecky2222]

Reiner

As UMR i can confirm it.

Do you still agree with High 1-B stuff after Qawsedf clarifying things? Only you left. And Azerty seems to think you agree with obvious powerscaling question

Also Azerty you should change both Oblivion and Qawsedf to Agree with 1-C disagree with the rest

 

[sukuna171]

I think 1-C seems pretty good, but I strongly disagree with 1-A

 

[Hecky2222]

I think 1-C seems pretty good, but I strongly disagree with A-1.

1AH in very existent Misfit

 

[Wesker018]

I think 1-C seems pretty good, but I strongly disagree with A-1.

A-1 Pictures?

 

[sukuna171]

1AH in very existent Misfit

A-1 Pictures?

Thanks for pointing it out to me

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

The descriptor “all possible worlds” is contingent on the verse’s cosmology. It is not hard to understand.

Imagine that we have a set A, which contains five elements.

In this case, the Ultimate Ensemble is set A, because it encompasses all possible worlds within the cosmological framework used by the verse, that is, those five elements.

It is a truly horrible argument. DMC already tried something similar and it was rejected. Do not be greedy, and focus on High 1-B.

ayo wot

That's different, DMC was about "all possible dimensions and time" and it was only for some guy who became omniscient seeing and knowing everything

istg people can't read

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

ayo wot

That's different, DMC was about "all possible dimensions and time" and it was only for some guy who became omniscient seeing and knowing everything

istg people can't read

You definitely didn't read the thread that tried to upgrade DMC ranges to Low 1-A using that argument lmfao. I personally argued against it.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

aint no way my goat anos loses to yogurt now

anyways we all laughed at him but he finally did it (except outerversal and tier 0)

 

[YungManzi]

Reiner and some others agree with this statement because the author’s answer was not a simple yes or no. It was a full five-line explanation. Moreover, the question was not intended to increase Yogiri’s power, as some might think; rather, it was asked to understand the true nature of Yogiri, which cannot be grasped even through the concept of dimensions. We discussed this because the author receives thousands of questions aimed at boosting power, yet he never answers those. This was the only answer he provided, and he did so because the question aimed to understand Yogiri’s nature. In his response, he used five lines to explain the matter. As I mentioned, this was the only question he answered, and he answered it because it was necessary for understanding the matter, while he did not respond to any other questions aimed at increasing power. This highlights the importance of this question.

Agreed. I think it’s also worth noting that it comes from a QnA meant to promote the anime/new volumes of the series; and, for the people who claim it’s a leading/powerscaling question, the author themselves is the only source for the question.

The powerscaling claim is an assumption made literally just based on the question itself, with no further context or evidence.

Anyway, if the answer results in 1-A, then I agree with 1-A.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

The descriptor “all possible worlds” is contingent on the verse’s cosmology. It is not hard to understand.

Imagine that we have a set A, which contains five elements.

In this case, the Ultimate Ensemble is set A, because it encompasses all possible worlds within the cosmological framework used by the verse, that is, those five elements.

It is a truly horrible argument. DMC already tried something similar and it was rejected. Do not be greedy, and focus on High 1-B.

You are completely wrong here. That is not the case at all, and I brought up this point because I expected this kind of argument from the beginning.

The Final Ensemble contains all possible worlds, and these possible worlds are not just the five known elements. That assumption is incorrect. The Absolute God clarified this point very clearly, stating that the gods and even the most intelligent and knowledgeable beings in the entire world believe that those five elements are everything that exists. This is because even the most intelligent living beings and the gods cannot know anything beyond that—nothing beyond those worlds—so they assume that this is all that exists.

However, the Absolute God explained that this assumption is wrong and personally confirmed that the Final Ensemble contains other worlds that none of those gods can perceive or comprehend.
Imagine that there are worlds that even gods are unable to perceive or become aware of. For that reason, the Absolute God stated that just because you cannot perceive these worlds does not mean they do not exist—they do exist. After explaining this point directly, he then stated that the Final Ensemble contains all possible worlds.

Therefore, you cannot make the assumption you mentioned, because the Absolute God himself denied it. He clearly stated that there are other worlds that even consciousness itself cannot perceive, and the fact that we cannot perceive them does not mean they do not exist. For this reason, the Low 1-A argument still stands. Moreover, there are already more than four supporters who agree with it so far, so I ask the staff to review this matter.

I already provided the evidence earlier in the thread.

 

[Hecky2222]

these possible worlds are not just the five known elements.

I thought response she gave with "five things" was blatant just for example

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Yeah. Genuinely bad reading comprehension.

My example was meant to illustrate how that statement refers to all the elements within the cosmology, but that alone does not mean that the number or complexity of those elements reaches Low 1-A on its on.

You need evidence for that.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Yeah I meant 1-C

I can settle up for 1-C.

snip

Just gonna say this, the reason for "higher dimensions" being debunked to 2B had nothing to do with "infinity" being non-existent in the verse, so that entire claim is false... This is the CRT where "higher dimensions" were nuked. So yes, that claim that it was only new due to that is false.... (Point 2 is the relevant one)
(Since that would only bring it up to 2A)

For those who are too lazy to read, I will just paste the TLDR

As you can see, there was never a difference in dimensions or anything that could warrant a tier 1 rating.

TLDR : Just read this message from Executor_N0.

As such, the "Higher-Universes" would scale at 2-B. But frankly, there is no need for such a part in the cosmology, just put everything under the category of "Ultimate Ensemble

So yeah, disagree with this.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Just gonna say this, the reason for "higher dimensions" being debunked to 2B had nothing to do with "infinity" being non-existent in the verse, so that entire claim is false... This is the CRT where "higher dimensions" were nuked. So yes, that claim that it was only new due to that is false.... (Point 2 is the relevant one)
(Since that would only bring it up to 2A)

For those who are too lazy to read, I will just paste the TLDR


So yeah, disagree with this.

The collection of higher universes isn't Tier 1 from them being higher dimensions but because they are larger than each other. The higher dimension stuff wasn't even used in this OP either. So it doesn't impact the rating.

That said, the stuff about alternate timelines in the CF is true, so each Celestial Foundation would be Low 2-C instead of 2-B.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

The collection of higher universes isn't Tier 1 from them being higher dimensions but because they are larger than each other. The higher dimension stuff wasn't even used in this OP either. So it doesn't impact the rating.

Wouldn't that be low 1C though? Since I don't see why it would be a full dimension higher than any of the lower structures. (even if I think the Low 1C is wank to begin with)

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Since I am already here, I am gonna do a quick rundown on the other false claim....

Now we are talking about the Celestial Foundations, the Abyss, and the Sea, and this will be simple here because the whole matter revolves around this topic.

In this topic, all of that was downgraded due to reasoning based on the supposed absence of the concept of infinity in the work, which was used to reduce everything I mentioned. You can go in and see the responses and how all of this was refuted by claiming that the concept of infinity does not exist, which I have now refuted and which has been accepted. Therefore, the concept of infinity now exists, making this entire topic invalid, and everything must be reversed and restored to what it was.

Even the Abyss was approved as Low 1-C in a topic here, but as I mentioned, due to the misunderstanding about the absence of the concept of infinity, this disaster occurred.

Now what is the issue?.... The fact that none of these downgrades had anything to do with infinity, so that claim is still false.... For context, here is the thread.

Again I will quote the main evidence regarding the CRT...

First of CFE
------------------------------------------------------
The problem here is on two sides, so let's begin with the most important one. The Celestial Foundations doesn't encompass "everything" on a conceptual level.

Celestial Foundations are the "plates" on which the numerous things that make the worlds, alongside intelligent life forms, exist. The world (i.e. living space) on top of the Celestial Foundation can take various forms, such as space existing on top of it or land and seas instead. Similarly, multiple Celestial Foundations can exist within a single canopy.

Three elements within the "world" are considered conceptual. Those elements are the Celestial Foundation, the Canopy, and the Celestial Axis. The rest is physically present within the world, such as the lands and sea, space, intelligent life, ...

As for the second problem. The Celestial Foundations aren't universe-sized, at all.

The size of a Celestial Foundation, alongside the canopy that encompasses said Celestial Foundation, may vary. The Celestial Foundation of the Earth (i.e. Yogiri's homeworld) solely encompasses a solar system, with the canopy closing off the world just a bit after Pluto. Meanwhile, the Celestial Foundation of The Demon King was stated as "small" compared to Yogiri's, although it is noted that the Great Celestial Foundation is bigger than planet Earth. As such, without further information, alongside the fact that Yogiri's is considered a "huge" one, we can assert that it can at least reach solar system in terms of size. Similarly, in Mitsuki's Celestial Foundation (at least the one he took over), the concept of "spaceships" doesn't exist as a result of space (i.e. outer space) not existing, severely limiting its size as a result.

As such, they should be downgraded to "Varies, Solar System for the huge ones"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Those are what got the downgrade, and had nothing to do with infinity, but rather that the sizes of CFE was varied....

Now let's continue with the arguments....

2. The Abyss.

In this thread, it was accepted that the Abyss should be "possibly Low 1-C" due to it possibly having a universal size. Well, it should go, since the Celestial Foundation of Yogiri is stated to only be Solar System in size.

I suggest putting The Abyss as "Unknown".

This one is pretty straightforward, since it was based around the size of CFE, not the size of "infinity"....


But yes, "the sea", was infinite in size, but that would only be High 3A or 2A, depending on where the rest ends up....

snip

Pinging you since this is relevant. While I am at it

snip

snip

My main point here is to point out that the OP is extremely misleading with the fact that he says everything here was based around "infinity" not existing, while only 1 of the 4 brought up points by me was hit by it... (The Abyss), but not CFE, The abyss, or higher dimensions.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

also add quas to the vote list pls

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Since I am already here, I am gonna do a quick rundown on the other false claim....



Now what is the issue?.... The fact that none of these downgrades had anything to do with infinity, so that claim is still false.... For context, here is the thread.

Again I will quote the main evidence regarding the CRT...

First of CFE
------------------------------------------------------
The problem here is on two sides, so let's begin with the most important one. The Celestial Foundations doesn't encompass "everything" on a conceptual level.

As for the second problem. The Celestial Foundations aren't universe-sized, at all.


As such, they should be downgraded to "Varies, Solar System for the huge ones"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Those are what got the downgrade, and had nothing to do with infinity, but rather that the sizes of CFE was varied....

Now let's continue with the arguments....


This one is pretty straightforward, since it was based around the size of CFE, not the size of "infinity"....


But yes, "the sea", was infinite in size, but that would only be High 3A or 2A, depending on where the rest ends up....


Pinging you since this is relevant. While I am at it



My main point here is to point out that the OP is extremely misleading with the fact that he says everything here was based around "infinity" not existing, while only 1 of the 4 brought up points by me was hit by it... (The Abyss), but not CFE, The abyss, or higher dimensions.

Honestly, you did not add anything, and I do not think you understand the Instant Death series or what we are actually discussing, so what you said is not really relevant.

I only have three lines for you.

The Heavenly Foundations were stated to be universes, and it was mentioned that they differ in laws and sizes as well. However, we should not forget that they are still universes. The existence of only two Heavenly Foundations that do not meet the size requirement does not mean that all other Heavenly Foundations also fail to meet it, because there are Heavenly Foundations that are already infinite in size, my friend. Sweet Dao used the infinity argument to refute this, and since the infinity argument has been debunked, these Heavenly Foundations with infinite size refute what you said. The existence of Heavenly Foundations with infinite size means that the presence of only two with those specific laws is not evidence against this proof, which already refuted Sweet Dao’s claim and completely invalidated the argument of the two foundations.

Well, I have said what I needed to say, and I will also return to refuting the parallel worlds argument soon.

 

[Qawsedf234]

As for the second problem. The Celestial Foundations aren't universe-sized, at all.

Yeah, that's a pretty bad series of statements.

But yes, "the sea", was infinite in size, but that would only be High 3A or 2A, depending on where the rest ends up....

If the Sea is infinite and contains the Abyss, then the Sea would still be Low 1-C going by that thread. The Abyss has four spatial axis and a time dimension. So the Sea holding it and itself being infinite would make it Low 1-C.

My main point here is to point out that the OP is extremely misleading with the fact that he says everything here was based around "infinity" not existing, while only 1 of the 4 brought up points by me was hit by it... (The Abyss), but not CFE, The abyss, or higher dimensions.

Really from my perseptive the most it would do is make the Abyss and Celestial areas unknown or small in size, but that wouldn't change the Sea or the Ultimate Ensemble's arguments imo.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

If the Sea is infinite and contains the Abyss, then the Sea would still be Low 1-C going by that thread. The Abyss has four spatial axis and a time dimension. So the Sea holding it and itself being infinite would make it Low 1-C.

Here is the issue, the sea is not accepted as low 1C, but rather High 3A....

The "Sea": At least High Universe level (High 3-A).

While the Abyss is rated "unknown", since it was repeatedly debated and accepted as the 4th spatial dimension and a time axis, it was unreliable. Thus remained unchanged.

The Abyss: Unknown

If you want, I can send tons of threads with more proof why it was deemed unreliable and thus, was changed to "unknown."

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Yeah, that's a pretty bad series of statements.

If the Sea is infinite and contains the Abyss, then the Sea would still be Low 1-C going by that thread. The Abyss has four spatial axis and a time dimension. So the Sea holding it and itself being infinite would make it Low 1-C.

Really from my perseptive the most it would do is make the Abyss and Celestial areas unknown or small in size, but that wouldn't change the Sea or the Ultimate Ensemble's arguments imo.

No, you are misunderstanding the matter.

The Heavenly Foundations are universes; this was explicitly stated. Some of these Heavenly Foundations are also infinite in size. It was only mentioned that there are two foundations that are the size of a solar system, but the existence of only two with that size is not evidence that all the countless other Heavenly Foundations are the same size. Especially considering that it was stated that they differ in size and in laws, and they are still described as universes. The size was specified only for those two foundations.

However, as I said, Sweet Dao used the infinity argument to refute the Heavenly Foundations that are infinite in size, claiming that therefore all the foundations fail to meet the size requirement. That argument has already been debunked. Because of that, the Heavenly Foundations with infinite size refute what you said. This means that all Heavenly Foundations meet the size requirement except for those two foundations.

Look here, here, here, and here, where the infinity argument was used to refute the Heavenly Foundations with infinite size. Sweet Dao himself was among the people I referred to. That was the argument he relied on to refute the infinite-sized Heavenly Foundations, but now that argument has been debunked and is no longer valid. Therefore, they cannot be considered unknown anymore.

Also, what is your opinion regarding the author’s statement? Do you object to using it or not, based on what I mentioned to you in the previous comment? Reiner and the other members agreed to use it because the answer was not simply “yes” or “no”; the author’s response was a full five lines, and the question itself was important for understanding Yogiri’s true nature. So, do you agree with us on using this statement or not?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Here is the issue, the sea is not accepted as low 1C, but rather High 3A....


While the Abyss is rated "unknown", since it was repeatedly debated and accepted as the 4th spatial dimension and a time axis, it was unreliable. Thus remained unchanged.


If you want, I can send tons of threads with more proof why it was deemed unreliable and thus, was changed to "unknown."

As Qaw said, even if the Abyss is of small size, the Sea contains it, which is what gives the Low 1-C rating (for the Sea). It would not be High 3-A to begin with.

 

[Robo432343]

is this really the scan thats supposed to disprove the abyss having a 4th spatial dimension

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

As Qaw said, even if the Abyss is of small size, the Sea contains it, which is what gives the Low 1-C rating (for the Sea). It would not be High 3-A to begin with.

It actually... is though, if you look at the cosmology page.... And no new evidence for it is provided, other than the "infinity not existing" being debunked....

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

is this really the scan thats supposed to disprove the abyss having a 4th spatial dimension

I dont see how it can even be disproved since the narration directly states it has 4 spatial dimensions/degrees of movement.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

It actually... is though, if you look at the cosmology page.... And no new evidence for it is provided, other than the "infinity not existing" being debunked....

That just means the cosmology page needs to be updated with Low 1-C. The Abyss couldnt be Low 1-C before since the concept of infinity wasnt considered. But since now it can, and the fact that it does actually have 4 spatial dimensions, it would change things.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Yeah. The Low 1-C is okay honestly.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

That just means the cosmology page needs to be updated with Low 1-C. The Abyss couldnt be Low 1-C before since the concept of infinity wasnt considered. But since now it can, and the fact that it does actually have 4 spatial dimensions, it would change things.

The fact that the abyss was nuked before, in a CRT, had nothing to do with infinity not existing... That is the issue.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

The fact that the abyss was nuked before, in a CRT, had nothing to do with infinity not existing... That is the issue.

What was "Nuked" was its rating going from 4-A to Unknown. The point is that even if its unknown, its a fact that it has 4 spatial dimensions and thus contributes to a Low 1-C rating for the Sea.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

@Qawsedf234 ,@Oblivion_Of_The_Endless What do you think about this now ↓

Now I will talk about the final argument in the entire Instant Death series.

The Mysterious Space:

The Mysterious Space is a space that exists outside all the main novels, and from this space those novels can be viewed merely as fiction and anime.

Based on this, the classification of the Mysterious Space would be 1-A.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

What was "Nuked" was its rating going from 4-A to Unknown. The point is that even if its unknown, its a fact that it has 4 spatial dimensions and thus contributes to a Low 1-C rating for the Sea.

That rating was "Nuked" due to being unreliable, not due to infinity not existing... How many times do I need to state that to you? (Sorry if this sounds rude)

I even sent a thread where it was nuked... (I would find a far more detailed search, but it is hard due to its non-functionality due to his self-ban.