Comprehensive Review of the Instant Death

[Azertyhuuh]

If the debunk of the statement really came down to “leading question”; it’s a very weak argument.


Considering, as far as we know, the author themselves is the origin of said question. You don’t know anything about intent, because you have no clue who wrote it.

And considering the author themselves thought it was worth answering in promotional material, I don’t see why it should be thrown out.

If you know anything about the ID author, you know they don’t just answer random power scaling questions from fans on social media. People have definitely tried, and never once got a response; this one statement that is actually in official promotional material is the only thing like this the author has answered (unless they did a new one)

Yes, I agree with you here.

@Oblivion_Of_The_Endless I think it’s necessary to reconsider this matter if possible, because the answer is not a simple yes or no—it’s a detailed five-line response. Moreover, this is the only response the author gave on this topic, even though he receives many questions aimed at increasing power scaling. This statement is well-known and longstanding, and the author’s response explains his perspective and how to handle dimensions. For these reasons, I also believe it’s essential to reconsider this statement—it is truly important.

 

[Hecky2222]

Flowery language doesn't concur me, we had lot verses that required statement in context should be taken literal.

True enough. Differently from Celestial Foundations, the universes outside the Sea are actual universes and never had any size downgrades. So, I guess they would be back to Tier 1, unless someone has an argument against it.

Do you have context for scan that proves it's "size"?. Hence @AlexSamDen already addressed this why it shouldn't be taken literally without further context there

It, in fact, does not directly state that. It talks about "some believe in a theory" and "if that's true, it's possible". If you have additional context why those should be taken as literal statements, please present it

Which Azerty's respond didn't give us any context or information why we should take it as literal proof for significant size. I am not well versed with ID but this scans certainly need context

 

[Orioreeem]

When we needed him the most, sweetdad abandend us

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Do you have context for scan that proves it's "size"?. Hence @AlexSamDen already addressed this why it shouldn't be taken literally without further context there

They are IRL-like parallel universes. It's on the cosmology page (Sea of Stars)

Which Azerty's respond didn't give us any context or information why we should take it as literal proof for significant size. I am not well versed with ID but this scans certainly need context

Kouryu' statement is a bit different situation. I dont think Kouryu is actually saying the universes themselves are infinite but rather their hierarchy, since they are nested within each other indefinitely. We know it isn't just a theory since the narration confirms this later on and the same happens when UEG fights Toichirou.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Flowery language doesn't concur me, we had lot verses that required statement in context should be taken literal.

Do you have context for scan that proves it's "size"?. Hence @AlexSamDen already addressed this why it shouldn't be taken literally without further context there

Which Azerty's respond didn't give us any context or information why we should take it as literal proof for significant size. I am not well versed with ID but this scans certainly need context

Yes, the statement is clear: space and time are infinite. If you want a context that confirms this, then yes, it does exist.

See here ↓

In short, space and time are infinite. The additional context is that even after an infinite amount of time had passed, no being appeared that could destroy these worlds in a single strike. The reason for this was already mentioned in the section where I refuted the “Absolute Laws,” so you can review that. Therefore, yes, the matter relates to size, and indeed an infinite time has passed. This means that spacetime is truly infinite. That is all—the matter is clear.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

They are IRL-like parallel universes. It's on the cosmology page (Sea of Stars)

Kouryu' statement is a bit different situation. I dont think Kouryu is actually saying the universes themselves are infinite but rather their hierarchy, since they are nested within each other indefinitely. We know it isn't just a theory since the narration confirms this later on and the same happens when UEG fights Toichirou.

Yes, its hierarchical sequence is infinite, and this is also indicated in this context here ↓

In this context, it is also established that space and time are infinite. The evidence is that even after an infinite amount of time had passed, no being appeared that could… This means that the Higher Universes are infinite and infinite in size as well. I do not think relying on only a specific part of the statement is appropriate.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Yes, its hierarchical sequence is infinite, and this is also indicated in this context here ↓

In this context, it is also established that space and time are infinite. The evidence is that even after an infinite amount of time had passed, no being appeared that could… This means that the Higher Universes are infinite and infinite in size as well. I do not think relying on only a specific part of the statement is appropriate.

He said "if space and time is infinite" right after talking about a collection of universes containing each other. It doesnt make much sense for it to be referring to the size of the universes themselves, since he never once touches that topic.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

He said "if space and time is infinite" right after talking about a collection of universes containing each other. It doesnt make much sense for it to be referring to the size of the universes themselves, since he never once touches that topic.

Why is it not logical when the context is clear? Can you explain, then, what it means that space and time are infinite? Naturally, this points to the size of the universes being infinite, and this is indeed confirmed because even after an infinite amount of time had passed, no absolute being appeared… Therefore, you need to explain this point, because for me it cannot be ignored and the context is clear.

Also, please respond to this comment here.

 

[YungManzi]

you just answer the question yourself

Answered what? I’m not the one making the claim that it’s a leading question by a power scaler to get desired results, when I don’t even know who asked the question.

The fact that the author doesn’t just answer random questions like this is precisely why we should take the answer seriously (combined with the fact that it’s in official promotional material). That’s my point.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

He said "if space and time is infinite" right after talking about a collection of universes containing each other. It doesnt make much sense for it to be referring to the size of the universes themselves, since he never once touches that topic.

After reading your statement, it seems that you may be mistaken about this point. Please reconsider the context again. It says ↓

“Some of us believe in a theory like this: There are universes contained inside larger universes and so on.”

Up to this point in the text ↓

As you can see, there is a period (.) that separates the statement and concludes the discussion about the Higher Universes at that point. Therefore, the following context is no longer talking about the Higher Universes but instead raises a question afterward: if spacetime is infinite, then there is a possibility that an absolute being could appear that is capable of destroying this group of universes… However, even after an infinite amount of time had passed, that did not happen, and the reason for that was explained in my discussion about the “Absolute Laws.”

Therefore, the context that mentions infinite spacetime does not refer to the Higher Universes. This is simply a misunderstanding of the text. Thus, the size of the Higher Universes is indeed infinite. Please reread the context carefully and understand it.

 

[Ihsjihahxu]

Celestial Foundations are still 4-B sized, so even if the size was tired, it would still be 4-B

He had ordered the Omega Blade to teleport him to the Sage Alice, but there was no sign of her. He was in a long, dark hallway. Lamps hanging from the low ceiling cast a dim light around him. The walls were lined with countless doors. It was too dark to see far, giving the impression that the hallway continued forever, with an infinite number of doors.

that is too much trouble, you could destroy the dimension altogether. It

is little more than a transient bubble on the surface of the world, after all. Your power is overwhelmingly greater, so the Sages have no choice but to scurry around in the dark, hiding."

"If I go inside, will I still be able to use the Omega Blade?"

"Yes. This dimension is still built on the framework of the greater world.

She immediately decided to flee. Her invincibility within Another Kingdom had been called into question. Naturally, she wouldn't be able to stubbornly stick to that one ability. That was enough for her to give up her reliance on it. So Alice teleported to the infinite hallway that made up the entrance of her realm. The hallway was lined with countless doors and stretched on forever. As an entrance that temporarily held her visitors, no matter which door one went through

As you can see, the passageway connecting to Alice's pocket dimension is infinitely long and includes doors as well.

Her empire is as small as a bubble compared to the vast framework of the world.

Celestials are tiny, like bubbles, compared to the infinite area of the Sea.

I think the framework of the world (All Celestial) should be infinite, not just as small as a solar system.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

As you can see, the passageway connecting to Alice's pocket dimension is infinitely long and includes doors as well.

Her empire is as small as a bubble compared to the vast framework of the world.

Celestials are tiny, like bubbles, compared to the infinite area of the Sea.

I think the framework of the world (All Celestial) should be infinite, not just as small as a solar system.

iirc yeah they recently got 2B, but ask staff I wasnt there lul

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

No, it’s not like that. The Celestial Foundations are universes, and some Celestial Foundations are also infinite. However, the members argued that the concept of infinity does not exist in order to refute this point and to dismiss Elizhaa’s argument. Here is Elizhaa’s statement and the way they disproved the claim that the Celestial Foundations are infinite by proving that some Celestial Foundations are indeed infinite ↓

Looks like Alice stuff wasnt actually addressed in that thread with anything other than Paella's statement. In that case, I agree with infinite size for now, unless someone else has a better counter-argument.

I don’t see why it wouldn’t be sufficient. I think the Absolute God’s statement is clear, and you know that the Absolute God’s words carry the same authority as the author’s. The Ultimate Ensemble contains all possible worlds, so I believe the matter is clear. I don’t think there is a stronger or more definitive context to justify the Low 1-A level. If there is anything else I need to provide, I am ready to do so.

Because Low 1-A isnt just about "all possible worlds", but all possible mathematical spaces, or all possible spatial dimensions (3-D, 4-D, 5-D, etc). There is nothing in ID implying that it encompasses all of this.

Regarding the WoG statement, our rules are pretty clear on it. If it's a leading question it isn't allowed. It being picked up by the author or it coming from a promotional site doesn't matter, unless you make a staff thread to change the current rule on WoGs.

As you can see, there is a period (.) that separates the statement and concludes the discussion about the Higher Universes at that point. Therefore, the following context is no longer talking about the Higher Universes but instead raises a question afterward: if spacetime is infinite, then there is a possibility that an absolute being could appear that is capable of destroying this group of universes… However, even after an infinite amount of time had passed, that did not happen, and the reason for that was explained in my discussion about the “Absolute Laws.”

Therefore, the context that mentions infinite spacetime does not refer to the Higher Universes. This is simply a misunderstanding of the text. Thus, the size of the Higher Universes is indeed infinite. Please reread the context carefully and understand it.

Thats your interpretation of the text. Mine is different. I'll just agree to disagree here.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

so we have 1 staff who dosnt agree right? just making sure

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

so we have 1 staff who dosnt agree right? just making sure

Currently, I only disagree with Low 1-A/1-A.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Currently, I only disagree with Low 1-A/1-A.

reiner also had the same opinion no? or am tripping

 

[Hecky2222]

After discussion with UMR I guess Tier 1 Ratings can be acceptable if size is significant.

Not sure how we treat pocket reality manipulation to justify size but if they are good, ig Celestial size also makes sense

No to Low 1-A and 1-A for lack of proofs. Idk what my grandkid smoking there with possibly ratings when it is most blatant powerscaling question ever. Even if we say WoG is acceptable somehow. It doesn't work as evidence for Low 1-A and 1-A, but serves as only supporting evidence if one has better arguments for Tier 1-A ratings. Hence, ignoring isn't transcending and being superior to scope of all dimensions.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Not sure how we treat pocket reality manipulation to justify size but if they are good, ig Celestial size also makes sense

I dont think it being a pocket dimension matters much when it's stated that the Celestial Foundation is bigger than it anyway.

"little more than a transient bubble on the surface of the world"

"built on the framework of the greater world"

 

[Ihsjihahxu]

Because Low 1-A isnt just about "all possible worlds", but all possible mathematical spaces, or all possible spatial dimensions (3-D, 4-D, 5-D, etc). There is nothing in ID implying that it encompasses all of this.

Regarding the Ultimate Ensemble World, as the Ultimate God once stated, it is a world that encompasses every single possibility: space, time, dimensions, the void beyond, and parallel universes.
The definition provided by the Ultimate God—the supreme deity—is that it covers everything in its entirety.

The Celestial Foundation is essentially a 3D spatial structure plus one dimension of time (3D + 1D). However, the Abyss functions as an overlapping space of 3D and 4D spatial dimensions. Because the flow of time within it is unified and inseparable, it adds another dimension, resulting in a 5D structure.

And then he suddenly understood. He had only been letting them run free.
This world, this alternate dimension, was all a part of that young boy. If he wished it, they would lose their freedom there. Thanks to the power he held, the man could recognize that in an instant.
"Impossible! Such a power makes no sense!"

But no matter how he raged, the world would not bend. In this world where he should have been able to swim around freely, he had been frozen solid. He couldn't so much as move a finger now.
"No... what do you plan on doing with me?!"

Despite the man's ragged shout, the boy didn't seem interested in doing anything at all. He wasn't paying any attention to him anymore. He was just going to leave him there. The man would be trapped, able to do nothing but watch the world pass him by as he slowly starved to death.​

And

The man could move freely between that dimension and three-dimensional space. It was an incredibly powerful ability. By passing through that dimension, he could go anywhere he wished and avoid any attack. As he had demonstrated, he could even use it to bypass any sort of defense and destroy an opponent from within. On top of that, ordinary humans couldn't perceive this dimension, making it impossible for them to fight back.

Clearly, the Abyss is a true 4D spatial realm that encompasses 3D space, allowing one to attack from any angle or travel anywhere. This expands the framework of the Celestial Foundation into a 4-dimensional spatial construct. When you factor in the dimension of time (4D + 1D Time), it becomes 5-dimensional.

If we apply this logic to other cases—such as a universe containing other universes, as per the theories of the gods—it involves expanding the dimensional structure to accommodate the dimensional scale of every universe contained within it.

Of course, this might not always result in a simple +1D increase, as the scale must be vast enough to reach an uncountable infinite degree.
What I am trying to convey is that it encompasses the totality of space and every dimensional possibility.

 

[Hecky2222]

I dont think it being a pocket dimension matters much when it's stated that the Celestial Foundation is bigger than it anyway.

"little more than a transient bubble on the surface of the world"

"built on the framework of the greater world"

You didn't understand my point. What I meant there is if one is pocket dimension it can be treated in way "Finite outside, infinite inside". For example Universe inside Green Lantern Ring is Infinite but finite from outside. You can't use that to justify size of the DC Universe. I don't think pocket dimensions considered as size justification. Cuz citing from straight up page:

Pocket Reality Manipulation is a power which revolves around manipulating and creating pocket realities. Pocket realities, in this case, refers to realms that are spatially separate from other realms (including universes) and either are of less than universal size on the inside or appear as less than universe sized objects when observed from the outside.

so I am not exactly sure how we treat pocket dimension as size justification there

 

[Reiner04]

reiner also had the same opinion no? or am tripping

Yes

 

[Maniaunavailable]

aight, OP add 2 staff disagreements (with outerversal as a whole) so when the other staff comes they don't get lost, also following ig

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

You didn't understand my point. What I meant there is if one is pocket dimension it can be treated in way "Finite outside, infinite inside". For example Universe inside Green Lantern Ring is Infinite but finite from outside. You can't use that to justify size of the DC Universe. I don't think pocket dimensions considered as size justification. Cuz citing from straight up page:

Pocket Reality Manipulation is a power which revolves around manipulating and creating pocket realities. Pocket realities, in this case, refers to realms that are spatially separate from other realms (including universes) and either are of less than universal size on the inside or appear as less than universe sized objects when observed from the outside.

so I am not exactly sure how we treat pocket dimension as size justification there

The statement of the CF being "greater" than it was made in reference to the dimension itself and not just its entrance, specially since Shigeto was inside of it when the Omega Blade stated it. So I'd say it would scale to its size. It wouldnt make much sense for the dimension to be bigger than the world when the statement says "this dimension was built on the framework of the greater world", specially since the Omega Blade says in the same paragraph that the user who controls Another Kingdom (Alice's dimension) has less power/advantage than the one who owns the Omega Blade (since the omega blade controls the Celestial Foundation).

 

[YungManzi]

I agree with Oblivion on everything besides the WOG, so I’d personally make it a “possibly Low 1-A” rating with that included.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

I agree with Oblivion on everything besides the WOG, so I’d personally make it a “possibly Low 1-A” rating with that included.

he did not say possible low 1A

 

[YungManzi]

he did not say possible low 1A

Yeah, I literally made that distinction.

I think assuming mal-powerscaling intentions behind a question in a QnA is bad powerscaling practice. Especially of which:
1) the author themselves singled out and featured in promotional material.

2) You don’t know the origin of the question, aside from the author.

Idk why we don’t just assume this is a question the author themselves came up with when they're our only source for it.

 

[Hjdjdhf]

Keep going, you can do it！
加油，你可以的！
頑張れ！君ならできるよ！

 

[Mizuki67]

Sweet dao is gone bruh

 

[Robo432343]

Sweet dao is gone bruh

finally
now we can get tier 0 yogiri

 

[Mizuki67]

finally
now we can get tier 0 yogiri

That is funny coming from you. Isnt bro literally the same guy that said akuto is solar system level. He is still H1A now. Where is your debunk thread ?

 

[BoastJr]

Lets not derail here

Anyways I take it that Yogiri is H1B if this CRT passes from whats seen here

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Because Low 1-A isnt just about "all possible worlds", but all possible mathematical spaces, or all possible spatial dimensions (3-D, 4-D, 5-D, etc). There is nothing in ID implying that it encompasses all of this.

Okay, if that’s everything, then I have evidence for this, and what I’m going to say is exactly the same as what @Ihsjihahxu stated here.

This proves that all possible worlds include dimensions, parallel worlds, universes, and so on in fact, everything. This is exactly what the Ultimate God said: everything. And this means that all possible worlds will include all possible dimensions, types of universes, and everything else literally everything.

Evidence ↓

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Okay, if that’s everything, then I have evidence for this, and what I’m going to say is exactly the same as what @Ihsjihahxu stated here.

This proves that all possible worlds include dimensions, parallel worlds, universes, and so on in fact, everything. This is exactly what the Ultimate God said: everything. And this means that all possible worlds will include all possible dimensions, types of universes, and everything else literally everything.

Evidence ↓

That same scan directly implies that the Ultimate Ensemble is simply the totality of the verse’s cosmology.

So, if you want to prove that the verse is Low 1-A, then you should shift your attention toward demonstrating that a Low 1-A structure actually exists in the first place, because simply saying “all possible worlds” is not indicative of anything, since that statement only refers to (as I said before) the totality of the elements present within the cosmology.

I heavily disagree with the Low 1-A rating. I am neutral regarding the rest.

 

[Mbpoops]

Following…

 

[Hecky2222]

That is funny coming from you. Isnt bro literally the same guy that said akuto is solar system level. He is still H1A now. Where is your debunk thread ?

In big 2026 not taking Robo jokes

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Ykw yeah agree with everything exceot L1A and 1A

 

[Maniaunavailable]

also did staff talked about H1B too?

 

[Hecky2222]

also did staff talked about H1B too?

we literally discussed with UMR High 1-B there bruh

 

[Maniaunavailable]

we literally discussed with UMR High 1-B there bruh

I never learned how to read

 

[Reiner04]

we literally discussed with UMR High 1-B there bruh

As UMR i can confirm it.