GRACE [8-2-0] Ok, no joke: Could Sherlock Holmes get Kira?

[Nonynho]

-Sherlock was familiar with 2003's level of technology
-Sherlock took the place of L, everything went the same as the manga/anime until december 5th 2003 (y'all remember that scene from episode 2/chapter 2, where Light killed Lind L. Taylor? I mean to say that everything is the same up until that scene)
-Light somehow didn't know who Sherlock Holmes is
-Wincon was by either Sherlock's death or Light being arrested
-Light ends his life in 4 months, which counted as a defeat in Sherlock's eyes (basing myself on the movie continuity here, if this is unfair, tell me and this is removed)

The most well known detective in the world- Nonynho, Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh, Doggo, Rex_Eckles, ARCH0207, BlackDarkness679, O0DSF0o, DaReaperMan

Young fool with god complex- Mr. Bambu, Eden_Warlock99

Incon-

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I think this is a stomp in Sherlock's favor?

I just gave a quick glance at his intel, and i think he hard stomps

 

[Nonynho]

I think this is a stomp in Sherlock's favor?

I just gave a quick glance at his intel, and i think he hard stomps

well, considering our standards, Kira surpassed an EG and his intelligence sections sum up to what, 4x Sherlock's just with feats?

Don't get me wrong, i made this hoping for Kira to lose at least being able to win in some cases, but we'll need more to say Sherlock's winning here

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Was gonna say before reading the conditions, there's no way Light wouldn't know who Sherlock is; Sherlock hardly hides his identity, which was obviously the main reason L was able to contend with him for so long. Still, Sherlock has so little time to adapt to a high technology world, I'd be surprised if he was able to hide his identity like L did. Light has access to police databases and shit, and Sherlock wouldn't immediately be aware of how to get around all that. He's a genius, but I think the odds are stacked against him in a technological sense.

 

[Nonynho]

Was gonna say before reading the conditions, there's no way Light wouldn't know who Sherlock is; Sherlock hardly hides his identity, which was obviously the main reason L was able to contend with him for so long. Still, Sherlock has so little time to adapt to a high technology world, I'd be surprised if he was able to hide his identity like L did. Light has access to police databases and shit, and Sherlock wouldn't immediately be aware of how to get around all that. He's a genius, but I think the odds are stacked against him in a technological sense.

That is pretty fair.
But since Sherlock is a really studious fella, we shouldn't need much time for him to adapt
Would i be able to just say "Sherlock is familiar with 2003's technology level" or would i have to specify more like "Sherlock has two months to adapt to 2003's level of technology before the crimes even started happening"?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I suppose that depends on what you're going for. Do you want Sherlock's lack of knowledge on this specific thing to be irrelevant? I had assumed that by how the OP put it, this was intentional, giving him a limited time to catch up on decades of pretty major changes. If you don't want that weakness to be here, or to be pretty much not here, then yeah, you could just say he's familiar.

 

[Nonynho]

I suppose that depends on what you're going for. Do you want Sherlock's lack of knowledge on this specific thing to be irrelevant? I had assumed that by how the OP put it, this was intentional, giving him a limited time to catch up on decades of pretty major changes. If you don't want that weakness to be here, or to be pretty much not here, then yeah, you could just say he's familiar.

I intend on it not being a weakness of his, just that
Because it would be way harder to do the other way around.

Considering "Sherlock is familiar with 2003's level of technology", any input?

 

[MannyQ361]

Sherlock's initial reaction to 2003's progress.

 

[Nonynho]

Sherlock's initial reaction to 2003's progress.

outta nowhere my guy is just sexist lmfaooooo

This may be actually very bad for him since Misa will be a part of Light's plan

 

[Nonynho]

bump

 

[MannyQ361]

outta nowhere my guy is just sexist lmfaooooo

This may be actually very bad for him since Misa will be a part of Light's plan

Yeah fr, though notably that version of Sherlock was able to quickly get a grasp on 22nd century technology.

 

[Nonynho]

Yeah fr, though notably that version of Sherlock was able to quickly get a grasp on 22nd century technology.

Well, as much as i hate this, i think by what you brought up by him being surprised a woman's in charge and because he isn't usually thaaaaat worried about keeping his, whenever Light starts using Misa Misa he just wins lmfao

 

[Doggo]

Sherlock isnt an idiot. The moment he realizes Kira needs a face and name to kill, he is going to use an alias to hide his identity

That being said, I'm only familiar with Novels Holmes, not this variant. I can defend Light ig


So how would this version of Sherlock go over the Kira case? Would he do the same "Lind L. Taylor" strat like L or something else?

 

[Nonynho]

I'm only familiar with Novels Holmes, not this variant.

Ayo, this is the novels' one

So how would this version of Sherlock go over the Kira case? Would he do the same "Lind L. Taylor" strat like L or something else?

To give him a proper north to follow and not leave him baseless, i made in OP that everything's still the same up until Lind L. Taylor dies.
He took L's place so let's say he's going under the pseudonym of L too, for simplicity sake

 

[MannyQ361]

That being said, I'm only familiar with Novels Holmes, not this variant.

My bad about the confusion. But with knowledge on 2003 technology, Novel Sherlock could overcome the time period gap in similar manner to his 22nd Century variant.

 

[Doggo]

WAIT

OG SHERLY HAS THE A PROFILE LETS GOOOOOO YESSSSSS


Yeah theres probably a lot you could do to his intelligence section, he should be EG cuz he has some absurd feats in the books (same goes to Light, honestly. Idk why tf is he still genius when he beat L, an EG.)

 

[Doggo]

Anyway, Novels Sherlock genuinely destroys Light in pure intellect. He is a wayyyyy greater detective than L, and stuff like his Final Problem plan shows that he can topple influential individuals like Kira with just sheer planning

The issue, however, is that proving Light is Kira is nigh-impossible, and Holmes' identity is far less secure than L's. You have to prove that a respected high schooler somehow has a supernatural notebook that kills while having to hide your identity and name.

But unlike L, Sherly won't aggressively challenge his opponent and would rather investigate from the shadows. Part of the reason L lost because he is a prideful piece of crap. He had no reason to publicly challenge Light like that. He would probably instantly win this match without Light knowing if it weren't for the fact that it's Post-Lind L. Taylor (seriously tho, that plan was perfect if L did not introduce himself after the broadcast)

Anyway, my main question is: When you said Sherlock is taking L's place, do you mean he simply takes over the case, or he literally has L's resources and influence? The answer actually greatly changes this matchup.

 

[Nonynho]

he should be EG

Visit the thread to revise it, debating with Ant there can be quite interesting

For now we'll consider him a genius, and ultimately L is an EG and Light being one tier below could best him, so...

Anyway, Novels Sherlock genuinely destroys Light in pure intellect. He is a wayyyyy greater detective than L, and stuff like his Final Problem plan shows that he can topple influential individuals like Kira with just sheer planning

You'll have to base this with quite a bit more than what the profile gives us, tbf

The issue, however, is that proving Light is Kira is nigh-impossible, and Holmes' identity is far less secure than L's. You have to prove that a respected high schooler somehow has a supernatural notebook that kills while having to hide your identity and name.

1- Holmes takes the L pseudonym in this scenario
2- L could deduct Light probably has connections with the police IIRC from the Lind L. Taylor thing, so it is likely for Holmes to start narrowing down there too

(seriously tho, that plan was perfect if L did not introduce himself after the broadcast)

but even with that this was the exact reason why Light lost, even with it being after L passed away lol

Anyway, my main question is: When you said Sherlock is taking L's place, do you mean he simply takes over the case, or he literally has L's resources and influence? The answer actually greatly changes this matchup.

Everything is the exact same until that day but instead of the correct answer for Kira being "L. Lawliet" it is "Sherlock Holmes", Sherlock was called by interpol like L was and his identity is unknown for the general public and even for Interpol

He doesn't have Watson with him, nor an obscene amount of money or Watari

 

[Doggo]

He doesn't have Watson with him, nor an obscene amount of money or Watari

Congrats, Holmes does nothing!

The only reason L could pull off what he did is that he was fricking rich and had a lot of contacts.

His being a dozen times smarter now means nothing when he is going to have a hard time working with the police or setting up traps like the 64 camera strat L did in canon.

He only beat Moriaty in canon cuz Moriaty was toying btw. And Light has a greater reach than Moriaty here.

 

[Doggo]

Visit the thread to revise it, debating with Ant there can be quite interesting

Link?

I would like to upgrade the intelligence sections for Light and Holmes if I have the time lol

 

[Nonynho]

Congrats, Holmes does nothing!

The only reason L could pull off what he did is that he was fricking rich and had a lot of contacts.

His being a dozen times smarter now means nothing when he is going to have a hard time working with the police or setting up traps like the 64 camera strat L did in canon.

He only beat Moriaty in canon cuz Moriaty was toying btw. And Light has a greater reach than Moriaty here.

As you pointed out before, Holmes has a whole other way to investigate if compared to L, and by being called by interpol and having the japanese police with him Light would still no-diff him?

Link?

I would like to upgrade the intelligence sections for Light and Holmes if I have the time lol

Self-evident intelligence revisions thread

Hello. This is a thread for quickly adjusting Intelligence ratings that very clearly do not match the feats that are described in relevant character profile pages. More complicated cases should preferably be discussed in separate content revision forum threads instead.

vsbattles.com

 

[Doggo]

As you pointed out before, Holmes has a whole other way to investigate if compared to L, and by being called by interpol and having the japanese police with him Light would still no-diff him?

The problem with Holmes is that he only has L's name, but the actual resources that made L deadly is gone

Also, there is nothing stopping Light from doing what he did in canon to make the NPA distrust L. Once he does that, Sherly would be left with no allies. L only continued well because he had money and other allies to support him even with the FBI and NPA retreating from the Kira case.

 

[Nonynho]

The problem with Holmes is that he only has L's name, but the actual resources that made L deadly is gone

Also, there is nothing stopping Light from doing what he did in canon to make the NPA distrust L. Once he does that, Sherly would be left with no allies. L only continued well because he had money and other allies to support him even with the FBI and NPA retreating from the Kira case.

With the information he's got and because of the different approach he'd need way less to actually keep track of Light, the only possible student with police connections, as L found very soon.

Would you like to share a bit of your knowledge on how would Sherlock Holmes operate according to the novels, to compare with Light using...more basis?

 

[Doggo]

Would you like to share a bit of your knowledge on how would Sherlock Holmes operate according to the novels, to compare with Light using...more basis?

Sherlock tends to always be on the location of the case unlike L. But like L he does make make traps to expose the culprit. Like in the 1st book where he called over the killer to his office by pretending to give him the ring he lost. He also tried doing something similar in Hounds of Baskerville when he used the killer's target as bait to catch him. He is also more physically active than L, who mostly relies on proxies. So Sherlock could try stuff like physically sneaking in Light's room to find the Death Note.

Most importantly, Sherlock is not as eogtisical as L. He will mostly focus on catching him instead of chalenging him.

With the information he's got and because of the different approach he'd need way less to actually keep track of Light, the only possible student with police connections, as L found very soon.

Yeah no. Your post only has Sherlock with the tech knowledge and L's identity. Even if he is smarter, he would take a much longer time than L in this scenario.

Sherlock is gonna have a hard time if Light does the same isolation strategy he did to make a NPA abandon L. At best Sherlock could do the same thing as L and make his own Kira Task Force so he wont be entirely alone.


Honestly Sherlock would definately sneak into Light's room once he identifies him. He would notice the false bottom trap and collect the Death Note and use it to convict Light. Sherlock simply needs to do it before Misa comes into play and merks him. Voting Sherlock honestly.

 

[Nonynho]

That seems quite reasonable
But how exactly would he link the Death Note being real? It is a magical thing and he'd need to prove judicially that this guy with no memories of the Death Note used a magical notebook to kill thousands

If that gets a reasonable explanation, i'm 100% voting Sherlock too ngl

 

[Doggo]

That seems quite reasonable
But how exactly would he link the Death Note being real? It is a magical thing and he'd need to prove judicially that this guy with no memories of the Death Note used a magical notebook to kill thousands

If that gets a reasonable explanation, i'm 100% voting Sherlock too ngl

If he steals the notebook, has the court prove its real, then Ligth gets easily convicted unless he somehow hires Saul Goodman to save him.

Light would probably win if he did something similar to the Memory Loss Plan that he used to kill L, but that only applies if Misa comes to join here, since Lihgt needs two notebooks for that. Sherlock could probably solve the case before that happens.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That was a major part of Death Note, though, was trying to get evidence that it was Light that didn't rely on supernatural causes. Sherlock needs to:

• Remain anonymous the entire time, without knowing that he has to do that, until he figures out how the Death Note works. He might do this quickly, given where he's starting, or he might not.
• Successfully identify specifically Light.
• Successfully gather evidence for this, against Light's own methods, to convince the law sufficiently that Light is Kira. This is where the "how do you prove gods of death are involved" bit comes in.
• Then manage to get an arrest against him, acknowledging that Light will likely just kill whoever comes to arrest him, and for his part can still manipulate others to acquire Sherlock's name (e.g., Shinigami eyes, possibly via Misa or someone else)

like. It just doesn't seem possible. Even Light's loss in Death Note seems more like a fluke than anything.

 

[Nonynho]

If he steals the notebook, has the court prove its real, then Ligth gets easily convicted unless he somehow hires Saul Goodman to save him.

the problem IMO is with the second part

How to prove that the death note is real without commiting a murder with it?
How to make a specific connection with the guy who just forgot everything? Remember that as soon as Sherlock touches the notebook, Light has no memory of the Death Note.

Successfully identify specifically Light.

That part might not be as hard as we think because L concluded very quickly that the murders were made in times fitting an student's schedule, so he should figure out that it's a student really quick. IIRC it is also in that part that L reaches the conclusion that he should have something to do with police members due to how the kills happen, or that is just a little later, so it should also be something Sherlock notices, leaving a very small list of people

Sherlock knows he's in the Kanto region too, which narrows down a lot of stuff too, so it is not unreasonable to say he'll get to Light Yagami as the main suspect quite soon



The main problem won't be reaching Light, the main problem will be, as Bambu also put very correctly, proving Light=Kira

 

[Doggo]

the problem IMO is with the second part

How to prove that the death note is real without commiting a murder with it?
How to make a specific connection with the guy who just forgot everything? Remember that as soon as Sherlock touches the notebook, Light has no memory of the Death Note.

Just....do what L himself was gonna do with the Death Note? L was gonna test the Death Note after asking the authorities for a death row inmate as a test subject. He only failed because Rem killed him before he could write anything. Sherlock could just ask the UN for permission espexially when the death penalty is legal in DN.

Light won't be using his Memory Loss plan if he gets caught before Misa. He needs two notebooks and Shinigami for that to work. Sherlock simply needs to work fast

 

[Nonynho]

Ok, so from reading this i think Sherlock takes this due to the completely different approach, added with Doggo just pointed out (i forgor), here's why:

• Lind L. Taylor's death (where this scenario starts) is in december 5th 2003
• Misa Amane reveals herself as the Second Kira to Light by coming to his house in may 25th 2004. This leaves a gap of exact 172 days before Misa can be included in Light's plans properly and use the Memory Loss Plan that worked against L and is fair to assume would work against Sherlock
• As Sherlock's approach to the crimes is more direct, 172 days is more than enough to reach Light Yagami
  • By december 12th L confirmed that police info is being leaked and shortly after Light started being tagged by an FBI agent, meaning L was already with that "students related to police officers are prime suspects" list since Light's dad confirmed in december 9th that the hours of death have narrowed down the suspects.
  • Light in an attempt to get closer to L purposefully narrowed the suspects list to 141 people
  • Sherlock could put all 500 people under surveillance as L thought necessary too, but he'd obviously focus more on the highly intelligent ones, and as Light is the top student like ever, he would investigate his house if not as the first, as one of the first, and by that time, Light already developed the fake drawer, which Sherlock could easily figure out and get the hands on the Death Note
  • As by that time Sherlock's resources as someone who's together with Interpol wouldn't be over yet and Light still wouldn't have elaborated plans to make Interpol, FBI and the japanese police lose faith in him, so he could get approval to get the Death Note tested and prove that it was found in Light's room

Voting Sherlock Holmes FRA

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I think that's just a very gracious set of assumptions. I think it is basically more feasible that Sherlock's name is outed, probably by outside sources (perhaps the very police he's working with). Yeah, he takes the same approach as L, but L's name was obscured from the start. Literally nobody knew who he was. And the reason Light didn't take up the shinigami eyes thing anyways was because he wasn't as pressed by L, whom he could keep at bay by playing out his role. If Sherlock is more direct, and Light picks up on that, which he probably will, because Light remains a genius in his own right, I reckon he just... either makes the deal, or determines Sherlock's name via police influences. I cannot imagine Sherlock wins consistently.

So if it wasn't obvious from before, I disagree with that series of events, and vote Light.

 

[Nonynho]

Sincerely: i'm just glad this is no stomp lol

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't think it's a stomp, though I do reckon it's excessively abstract in its considerations.

 

[Cropfist]

BBC Sherlock might serve a closer discussion being acclimated to modern tech

 

[Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh]

Sherlock FRA

 

[Doggo]

I think that's just a very gracious set of assumptions. I think it is basically more feasible that Sherlock's name is outed, probably by outside sources (perhaps the very police he's working with). Yeah, he takes the same approach as L, but L's name was obscured from the start. Literally nobody knew who he was. And the reason Light didn't take up the shinigami eyes thing anyways was because he wasn't as pressed by L, whom he could keep at bay by playing out his role. If Sherlock is more direct, and Light picks up on that, which he probably will, because Light remains a genius in his own right, I reckon he just... either makes the deal, or determines Sherlock's name via police influences. I cannot imagine Sherlock wins consistently.

So if it wasn't obvious from before, I disagree with that series of events, and vote Light.

Light taking the deal is so superrrrr out of character

Did you forget that he would go on to physically meet L....and still not make the deal

But I do agree that Light could probably get Sherlock's name over time via manipulating the police (using the death note to control some FBI higher up to expose him)

Also, while Sherlock is direct, I doubt he would try to meet Ligth or something; he is more likely to sneak into his house to find evidence, like finding the Death Note.

 

[Nonynho]

BBC Sherlock might serve a closer discussion being acclimated to modern tech

We gave him complete familiarity with the 2003's level of tech, and Novels' Sherlock has way better feats and the only one of the two to have a profile afaik

Light taking the deal is so superrrrr out of character

The only part of the line that i think Bambu is a bit imprecise in
But through police influence he can get the name of an investigator that, despite working with a pseudonym, is not half as careful with the identity as L is, and with that and some more, Light has a chance here
I just think that Sherlock's winning scenario is way more concise.
You voting, btw?

 

[ByArrow]

Novels' Sherlock has way better feats and the only one of the two to have a profile afaik

I doubt that. Also both of them have profiles.

 

[Nonynho]

I doubt that.

4 novels and 56 short stories vs 13 episodes
...
Yeah, no.

 

[ByArrow]

4 novels and 56 short stories vs 13 episodes
...
Yeah, no.

Having more content ≠ having better feats.