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The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

Thor saying someone is his equal doesn’t mean a whole lot, equal can mean equal to his normal output or equal to his peak output or anything else, we shouldn’t just assume that he’s referring to his peak power every time he says someone is equal to him, same goes for narration statements
Yeah. Blue Marvel was stated by Namor to equal to Thor and Hulk. Equal sometimes means just their base holding back stats.
I definitely think that base Thor should scale to Skyfather level. I knew about a lot of the scans presented, but they also had a bunch that I had never seen, establishing a ton of consistency. However, I do think a lot of Heralds should scale. Thanos, Loki, and Sentry definitely imo. Others, like Silver Surfer, Ultron, and Gladiator I will have to look at. They are indicated to be equal or superior to Thor, but I will have to look at the context and if they have things indicating they could scale to Skyfather or at least downscale. Oh, and characters like Mangog and Kurse should scale to.
The more i think of it, the more i see a reason as to why heralds scaling to Skyfather tier through Thor to not be good.

Let say Thor who is consistently and a bit superior to Skyfather/Hellord tier and Thanos would scale above him. Thanos is sometimes treated as being able to fight Skyfather/Hellord tier but still very much inferior to them. How are we going to treat something like that?


Mangog and Kurse can definitely scale to Skyfather tier
 
Thanos scaling is weird. Sometimes base Thor needs amps to fight him, sometimes he doesn't. I'm not sure what to do with him specifically.

Edit: Mangog and Kurse absolutely do scale to Skyfather level. They're much more consistently above base Thor than Thanos is, and a large portion of Kurse's power comes directly from the Beyonder. The base Destroyer should as well, and it's even compared to the Celestials at its peak (not referring to Odinsword, but the Destroyer during The Reigning)
 
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Do you think they'll learn something from all this?
You mean that overpowering pet characters to ridiculous degrees, while giving them very questionable ethics at the same time, is not a good replacement for interesting and entertaining stories? Probably not, and all of the constant restarts likely make it nearly impossible for new readers to keep track of what is going on. 🙏
 
Mortal Thor in the corner being awesome:
Yes, but there is a massive double-standard there.

First Al Ewing overpowered Spectrum to the point where she could match a Beyonder, the Blue Marvel to the point where he could overpower a Beyonder, Storm to the point where she could severely harm multiple Dominions, Jean Grey to the point where she completely outmatches the Living Tribunal, the Beyonders, and Multi-Eternity, Escapade to the point where she is equal to the Never-Queen, Loki to the the point where they completely outmatched Odin and can trap even Beyonders within a constrictive narrative, and likely other examples, and then Ewing lets Odinforce Thor be overpowered by a few dozen Rigellian soldiers or the Grey Gargoyle and Mister Hyde, and mentions in-story that Odinforce Thor is less than an insect compared to the cosmic entities, to then depower Thor completely to become the weakest superhero in the Marvel Universe, all while justifying this by stating that it is too hard to challenge Thor otherwise...

Really? That did not seem to be a problem for you when the characters in question did not happen to be a cisgendered Scandinavian male, and within the same comicbook that extremely rightly condemned the Hate-Monger, you simultaneously applauded Mystique, who is just as genuinely satanically evil a character as he is.

Speaking as an antitotalitarian far-left progressive who likely agrees with most of Ewing's values myself, I find this particular tendency in the works of Ewing and many other progressive writers extremely annoying and counter-productive/destructive, as it does not come across as striving for equality, tolerance, freedom, prosperity, and kindness, as genuine leftism should do, but as a form of reverse-supremacism and extreme moral double-standards, and that will only lead former moderates into embracing the extremely far right ethnonationalist ideology and policies of Donald Trump and his allies. 🙏
 
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Sure, everybody's got antifeats, even if they're supposed to be cosmically strong. That's nothing new, and both the case of the Rigellians and Mr. Hyde/Cobra/Grey Gargoyle are very obvious outliers.

Don't forget that Immortal Thor is the same run in which Thor used rune magic to defeat God of Stories Loki's narrative magic multiple times (first with Tormod/raidho, and then again with Yolgjord). He also took on multiple Elder Gods, beings that have an "Allegory of the Cave" level transcendence over Skyfathers and can casually create realms that transcend the Far Shore. He injured and defeated (although didn't kill) Kemur, the greatest of the Elder Gods, finished off Toranos, and defeated the forces of NRGL by himself as well as killed Mejed.

In this run he was also regarded as equal to full power Nyx in the Dark Cold Room by GoS Loki and completely stomped Reborn Zeus, who was an even greater threat than Nyx as confirmed by both Loki and Ewing himself.

As for Mortal Thor... It's very clear from reading the comics themselves that Sigurd Jarlson is not Thor Odinson. He's communicated with and had visions from Thor (who's appeared to be situated in Vidblainn somehow but I'm sure they'll explain that later). He's more of a new Blake mortal soul alternate identity, not a god at full power by any means. And even Sigurd is superhuman, capable of repeatedly reacting to bullets. Mr. Hyde folded a taxi nearly in half against Sigurd in the newest issue, doing basically no damage, and Sigurd has stomped biker gangs and Roxxon kill teams by himself. He's practically a super soldier.

Sure, there are other characters that it doesn't make sense to make overpowered. But we shouldn't also pretend that Thor hasn't had quite a few recent and cosmically epic showings putting him up there with some of the strongest in Marvel.

Plus... Mortal Thor is good writing, and is clearly building up to something amazing. I don't feel it's accurate to simply label it as some politically motivated depowerment of the character, when in context that is very clearly not what's happening at all.
 
Well, maybe I am seeing patterns where there are none to be found, but I don't currently have that impression.

Regardless, I do agree about that Thor is easily Marvel's currently best-written and most enjoyable comicbook. I just find the apparent double-standards very annoying. 🙏
 
Well, maybe I am seeing patterns where there are none to be found, but I don't currently have that impression.

Regardless, I do agree about that Thor is easily Marvel's currently best-written and most enjoyable comicbook. I just find the apparent double-standards very annoying. 🙏
Don't get me wrong--I want an upscaled Thor as much as anybody, and I'm not a fan of the disrespect he's gotten in the comics in that past. He's easily my favorite Marvel character (I wouldn't be indexing every single one of his appearances otherwise). It's definitely annoying to see other random characters like Storm getting highballed to oblivion when Thor makes much more sense to be in those stories, but we aren't exactly starving either.
 
Secondary is the variant used by Ultron who repeatedly takes blows from Thor. Thor also said he needed to use his might to warp the metal or something of the sort
so basically all adamantium is herald tier not just primary
 
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so basically all adamantium is herald tier not just primary
It depends. Thor with the Odinforce has proven capable of almost destroying Captain America's shield with casual blows, and Captain America's shield is considerably stronger than pure true adamantium.

But it depends upon the writer and editor. True pure Adamantium has been damaged on multiple occasions, including by the Hulk, but Kurt Busiek tried to boost it by letting even secondary adamantium require Thor exerting himself to destroy, and Tom Brevoort keeps irrationally claiming that the Hulk cannot destroy true adamantium, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Wolverine seems to have plot immunity though, given that the Hulk still hasn't tied his skeleton into a knot. 🙏
 
It depends. Thor with the Odinforce has proven capable of almost destroying Captain America's shield with casual blows, and Captain America's shield is considerably stronger than pure true adamantium.
Thor with the Odinforce is normally skyfather tier+
But it depends upon the writer and editor. True pure Adamantium has been damaged on multiple occasions, including by the Hulk, but Kurt Busiek tried to boost it by letting even secondary adamantium require Thor exerting himself to destroy, and Tom Brevoort keeps irrationally claiming that the Hulk cannot destroy true adamantium, despite all evidence to the contrary.
All of that says more about hulk then adamantium, his power heavily varies because of rage and holding back, somtimes he’s high street tier sometimes he’s upper mid tier sometimes he’s herald tier sometimes he’s skyfather tier sometimes he’s abstract tier
 
It depends. Thor with the Odinforce has proven capable of almost destroying Captain America's shield with casual blows, and Captain America's shield is considerably stronger than pure true adamantium.
Well, he dented it, but I don't know if he could casually destroy it. And Odinforce Thor is extremely strong, the stuff I've seen for the upcoming Thor revision puts him at Elder God tier in that state. And Captain America's shield has a ton of really great feats, like tanking attacks from Korvac (who is beyond Odin's level) and Celestials.
 
I might also propose an Incomplete Odinforce vs Complete Odinforce key split when my revision is completely researched. There's a pretty significant power gap between the two.

I haven't yet decided on if Allfather Thor should have a Rune Weapons key but I'm leaning towards no. Nether Tormod nor Yolgjord actually amped his physicals, and he took hits from high tier Elder Gods anyway.
 
I haven't yet decided on if Allfather Thor should have a Rune Weapons key but I'm leaning towards no. Nether Tormod nor Yolgjord actually amped his physicals, and he took hits from high tier Elder Gods anyway.
It was still very important narratively speaking for Thor to have those weapons in order to confront the Elder Gods, no? Even Skurge who confronted them alongside Thor had his new Bloodaxe (the original one being capable of cleaving apart Yggdrasil) forged through by Ullr, who deals in the kind of story-magic gods are susceptible to.
 
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It was pretty important for the storyline, although in all honesty his Rune Weapons seemed far more useful against God of Stories Loki and Amora than against the Elder Gods. Yolgjord didn't even function in Utgard
 
Just noticed the 4.2 million times FTL Silver Surfer.
When did this happen?

Bro is not feeding Galactus with this.
4.2 million was the only accepted calc value on this wiki once the other feats used which involved universe-crossing were removed due to upscaling everyone to infinite thru cosmology (seen as an outlier)
 
4.2 million was the only accepted calc value on this wiki once the other feats used which involved universe-crossing were removed due to upscaling everyone to infinite thru cosmology (seen as an outlier)
how was silver surfer being immeasurable at peak fine but captain marvel being infinite was an outlier
 
4.2 million was the only accepted calc value on this wiki once the other feats used which involved universe-crossing were removed due to upscaling everyone to infinite thru cosmology (seen as an outlier)
I thought that the MU wasn't accepted as infinite on the wiki?
 
Afaik, Midgard Universe isn’t Infinite (well not accepted as infinite, still is 1 trillon big) but the distance between realms like Asgard and midgard is infinite and Heralds can cross it
Gotcha
That makes more sense. I'm sure those speed ratings will be back up soon considering how often Thor and Silver Surfer do things like that
 
4.2 million was the only accepted calc value on this wiki once the other feats used which involved universe-crossing were removed due to upscaling everyone to infinite thru cosmology (seen as an outlier)
how was silver surfer being immeasurable at peak fine but captain marvel being infinite was an outlier

The word outlier has been an "amazing", long-lasting leash for the big 2 of comics.
 
Makes Odinforce Thor that much more insane.
Especially once you consider that A) Desak has fought and absorbed the power of thousands of pantheons by the time he fought Allfather Thor B) Desak was shown in a vision of the future to be capable of stomping Zeus C) he called Thor the strongest god he'd ever fought and D) As soon as Allfather Thor got his worthiness back, he easily one shot Desak who had fused with the Destroyer. Oh yeah--and at the beginning of The Reigning, it took Strange channeling the combined power of every other Earth pantheon to disable the Thorforce of far less experienced Allfather Thor.

It's pretty darn clear that Thor is the strongest Skyfather by an insane degree.
 
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did anyone read storm earths mightiest mutant #2 comics. this is probably first time we see official map of higher realms. House of ideas. Oblivion/void. etc..
 
did anyone read storm earths mightiest mutant #2 comics. this is probably first time we see official map of higher realms. House of ideas. Oblivion/void. etc..
1000104622.jpg

Well, we knew most of this before, but the Storm writer contradicts that the Phoenix Force/White Hot Room is supposed to be below the land of couldn't be/can't be (The Griever?), which in turn is supposed to be below the Never Queen who is the land of what might be/should be, if I remember the titles correctly. 🙏
 
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