Fist of the North Star Discussion thread

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Discuss away!

 

[Stefano4444]

Fist Of The North Star Revision Part 2 (Scaling and Multipliers)

Continuation of this thread, which will focus to revision the Stats, Scaling and Multipliers. My Kenshiro's profile where we can determinate his scaling/tiers, and then apply to the other characters. Current calcs evaluated or that still need to be evaluate...

vsbattles.com

Months had passed and very little was done, not even coming around what calculations to use.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/you-are-already-dead-vs-do-you-understand.176879/

 

[MichaelCalistro]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/kenshiro-vs-mori-redux-o-0-0-0.179815/

Kenshiro woke up one day to decide to bully characters beyond his tier once again.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Goku is the strongest character of all time, change my mind!

Granolah the Survivor Arc Goku was able to beat Miracle Mori in a fight who in return beats Post-Divine Realm Satan in a fight who in returns eternally stalemates End of Series Kenshiro in a fight! Now no one can say Kenshiro or Mori is stronger than Goku, because Goku is the goat!

https://vsbattles.com/threads/goku-vs-mori-redux-o-14-9-0-o-winner-goatku.176900/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/kenshiro-vs-satan-o-0-0-0.179815/

 

[Tonygameman]

 

[MichaelCalistro]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/tenryu-kokyu-ho-kenshiro-vs-the-monkey-king-mode-mori.181691/

Last time, we had an equal stats battle between Goku and Mori, now it's between Kenshiro and Mori because Mori is simply that guy.

 

[TokiNoOuja]

Have a question, is the Gaiden Storyline Canon? Many people said the story contradict the main line thus its non Canon

 

[TheIllusionofNothing123]

Have a question, is the Gaiden Storyline Canon? Many people said the story contradict the main line thus its non Canon

Created an account (mostly) just for this. I guess it depends on where you draw the line, but in general the guys who authored the series tend to be pretty liberal with what they consider to be canon nowadays.

All of them are published (or at least approved) by Tetsuo Hara and his company Coamix, who owns the IP. Every piece of Hokuto no Ken media since it was bought from Shonen Jump in June 2000 was. Here are all the Gaidens on the official HnK website: https://hokuto-no-ken.jp/series/gaiden#sec3
You'll notice that literally all of them have their draft with involvement from Tetsuo HARA, who also drew & helped draft Souten no Ken (who people have no problem considering to be canon), and since he's ontop of the company it also doesn't release without him wanting it.

ReGenesis is also probably canon (Tetsuo Hara mentions a lot of specifics in how he was going to write Regenesis in this interview: https://www.manga-audition.com/fotbs-regenesis/ and the site is headed by a guy from Coamix), this would also make the insane feat at the end of the manga that hasn't been calced or scaled canon.
Based on this other interview you can basically see that he kind of treats the Gaidens as canon himself:

"It can be a way to bring new readers to existing worlds of his creations. Today Hara-sensei actively takes part in the creation of spin-off works such as the “Gifu-Do-Do” series. Sensei creates the ever-so-important “characters”, not just physical appearance and anatomy but also the “Personalities” that “animate” the characters, making them act like real human beings. Sensei then supervise the creation by young creators, reviewing story boards and making improvements where necessary. Getting that much involved places a large workload on Sensei he sees it as a way to “Fill the gaps he couldn’t fill himself”. He also enjoys working with young creators because he enjoys “trying lots of new and exciting ideas” Being drawn by somebody else but Hara-sensei’s input is visible in all of those spin-offs."​

Stuff like LegendsREVIVE should also contain a lot of canonical information due to the creators' direct involvement and it includes a lot of characters from the Gaiden stories.

The only things I'd say are definitely not canon are comedy spinoffs like the Amiba isekai (though for that one it doesn't matter since... isekai), or DD HnK. Elegy for the Henchmen might be an exception. One thing I'd definitely also say is that the old Hokuto no Ken media like the 1986 movie, the 1984-1988 anime and the Shonen Jump guidebooks (if they are not authored/have input from Hara or Buronson) are definitely not canon, or as canon, as anything after 2000.

So, IMO, a true "canon" to Hokuto no Ken is mostly centered around the Ultimate edition of the manga that they just finished translating, Souten no Ken/ReGenesis, the Gaidens and the Legend movies, plus some of the video games, even with the continuity errors. Having errors in continuity doesn't mean it's not canon, it just wasn't written with a consistent continuity outside of their own stories in mind.

 

[TokiNoOuja]

Created an account (mostly) just for this. I guess it depends on where you draw the line, but in general the guys who authored the series tend to be pretty liberal with what they consider to be canon nowadays.

All of them are published (or at least approved) by Tetsuo Hara and his company Coamix, who owns the IP. Every piece of Hokuto no Ken media since it was bought from Shonen Jump in June 2000 was. Here are all the Gaidens on the official HnK website: https://hokuto-no-ken.jp/series/gaiden#sec3
You'll notice that literally all of them have their draft with involvement from Tetsuo HARA, who also drew & helped draft Souten no Ken (who people have no problem considering to be canon), and since he's ontop of the company it also doesn't release without him wanting it.

ReGenesis is also probably canon (Tetsuo Hara mentions a lot of specifics in how he was going to write Regenesis in this interview: https://www.manga-audition.com/fotbs-regenesis/ and the site is headed by a guy from Coamix), this would also make the insane feat at the end of the manga that hasn't been calced or scaled canon.
Based on this other interview you can basically see that he kind of treats the Gaidens as canon himself:

"It can be a way to bring new readers to existing worlds of his creations. Today Hara-sensei actively takes part in the creation of spin-off works such as the “Gifu-Do-Do” series. Sensei creates the ever-so-important “characters”, not just physical appearance and anatomy but also the “Personalities” that “animate” the characters, making them act like real human beings. Sensei then supervise the creation by young creators, reviewing story boards and making improvements where necessary. Getting that much involved places a large workload on Sensei he sees it as a way to “Fill the gaps he couldn’t fill himself”. He also enjoys working with young creators because he enjoys “trying lots of new and exciting ideas” Being drawn by somebody else but Hara-sensei’s input is visible in all of those spin-offs."​

Stuff like LegendsREVIVE should also contain a lot of canonical information due to the creators' direct involvement and it includes a lot of characters from the Gaiden stories.

The only things I'd say are definitely not canon are comedy spinoffs like the Amiba isekai (though for that one it doesn't matter since... isekai), or DD HnK. Elegy for the Henchmen might be an exception. One thing I'd definitely also say is that the old Hokuto no Ken media like the 1986 movie, the 1984-1988 anime and the Shonen Jump guidebooks (if they are not authored/have input from Hara or Buronson) are definitely not canon, or as canon, as anything after 2000.

So, IMO, a true "canon" to Hokuto no Ken is mostly centered around the Ultimate edition of the manga that they just finished translating, Souten no Ken/ReGenesis, the Gaidens and the Legend movies, plus some of the video games, even with the continuity errors. Having errors in continuity doesn't mean it's not canon, it just wasn't written with a consistent continuity outside of their own stories in mind.

Thanks for the time and clarification for this matter, but since I didn't read yet any of HNK manga, how would u comment on the matter that people said many moment in Gaiden Storyline contradict what states/shown in the OG manga?

Another question i like to ask is tbe MT, I noticed we give it an EE despite never shown in the manga as the reference came from a game. When I tried to dig the old threads, it was accepted because the game is canon?? They bring up some interviews and stuff but because it so old the interview link and scans are mostly broken, can u also explain this to me and whenever or not th EE stuff are supported by the manga.

 

[TheIllusionofNothing123]

Thanks for the time and clarification for this matter, but since I didn't read yet any of HNK manga, how would u comment on the matter that people said many moment in Gaiden Storyline contradict what states/shown in the OG manga?

Another question i like to ask is tbe MT, I noticed we give it an EE despite never shown in the manga as the reference came from a game. When I tried to dig the old threads, it was accepted because the game is canon?? They bring up some interviews and stuff but because it so old the interview link and scans are mostly broken, can u also explain this to me and whenever or not th EE stuff are supported by the manga.

It's all pretty case-by-case but a lot of the contradictions are simple continuity errors like Jagi having his scars before Kenshiro got them or Ryuken having a different death than was already shown in the manga, or Jagi being in different places when the nukes go off in both of those stories. But likewise, the Legend of the True Savior movies, which are generally considered canon as far as I know, feature characters from Raoh Gaiden even though the story in a few of those movies are heavily abridged and somewhat rewritten from the Manga, and even does shit like cut out Juza's fight from the arc with Raoh and Yuria.

All of this actually just makes me wonder if they'll do a bunch of rewrites for the new anime or not.

Basically, in my opinion, even if it's contradicting the continuity of things or even the general plot, since it was overseen and drafted with help from Tetsuo Hara (the guy who made the manga), it's canon or at least accurate to what Tetsuo Hara thinks the characters can do/could act like. If it's not canon, he'd say it's a "what if" or "parody" like DD Hokuto no Ken is listed as on the website for the franchise.

As for Musou Tensei, I'm not really an expert on it but I think it may be a translation issue. What is 100% true is that Musou Tensei erases the person using it, they become "nothingness", but some games (I think it was Ken's Rage/Hokuto Musou?) translated this as "Erases existence" in a weird way like if they erased existence with their attacks. I dunno if that's legit or not, but you're probably better off trying to find the original Japanese version of those in-game texts and asking a guy who knows Japanese here.

The actual profile on HnK Martial Arts only includes existence erasure for Gento Koken though, in a limited way. Musou Tensei merely resists existence erasure according to previous consensus.

 

[TokiNoOuja]

It's all pretty case-by-case but a lot of the contradictions are simple continuity errors like Jagi having his scars before Kenshiro got them or Ryuken having a different death than was already shown in the manga, or Jagi being in different places when the nukes go off in both of those stories. But likewise, the Legend of the True Savior movies, which are generally considered canon as far as I know, feature characters from Raoh Gaiden even though the story in a few of those movies are heavily abridged and somewhat rewritten from the Manga, and even does shit like cut out Juza's fight from the arc with Raoh and Yuria.

All of this actually just makes me wonder if they'll do a bunch of rewrites for the new anime or not.

Basically, in my opinion, even if it's contradicting the continuity of things or even the general plot, since it was overseen and drafted with help from Tetsuo Hara (the guy who made the manga), it's canon or at least accurate to what Tetsuo Hara thinks the characters can do/could act like. If it's not canon, he'd say it's a "what if" or "parody" like DD Hokuto no Ken is listed as on the website for the franchise.

As for Musou Tensei, I'm not really an expert on it but I think it may be a translation issue. What is 100% true is that Musou Tensei erases the person using it, they become "nothingness", but some games (I think it was Ken's Rage/Hokuto Musou?) translated this as "Erases existence" in a weird way like if they erased existence with their attacks. I dunno if that's legit or not, but you're probably better off trying to find the original Japanese version of those in-game texts and asking a guy who knows Japanese here.

The actual profile on HnK Martial Arts only includes existence erasure for Gento Koken though, in a limited way. Musou Tensei merely resists existence erasure according to previous consensus.

Well the profiles actually listed a full EE resistence using the same scan from game and it had something mentioned about not all people could use it without risk their life