Star Wars Discussion Thread Canon/Legends- Episode VI Return of the Threadi

[HammerStrikes219]

We don't have...

It's not a matter of "upgrading," but rather something more precise. What we currently use is an agreement to assume that the lightsaber has the same temperature as a real-life plasma cutter.

Plasma Cutter’s temperature is a low end for conservative lowball IIRC so that part is fine with me given the feat of Qui Gon cutting a circle in the thick metal door in Phantom Menace since it is 5 times hotter than the sun’s surface temperature.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

The page has once again become one of the most viewed.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

That character is still canon just isn’t the founder. This might be controversial, but I kinda prefer the Disney origin. Or at least I think having the Nightsisters originate separately from Jedi is more interesting & unique to me.

Although as pointed out in Legends, the Force can essentially do anything, it's not a Hard Magic System like some people claim it is, it can be said that Allya discovered a different way to use the Force that the Jedi declared forbidden.

Although it really brings into question what exactly makes the Nightsisters different from the Lost Tribe of the Sith

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I was looking at some more recent sourcebooks (those that the Star Wars fandom wiki marked as canon).

In the book Endless Vigil, a new Force power was introduced, capable of manipulating technology at a molecular level.

Why are all the cool things in RPGs?

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

capable of manipulating technology at a molecular level.

That isn't new:

 

[Phsccarvalho]

That isn't new:

It's nothing new; the Jedi/Sith manipulating technology has already been shown in canon.

The thing is, the RPG included "at the molecular level."

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

The thing is, the RPG included "at the molecular level."

It can be argued that was what Depa was doing here

 

[Rutæhh]

where do Ulic and Exar Kun scale? do they scale to Naga Sadow since Exar was feared by him?

 

[DaReaperMan]

where do Ulic and Exar Kun scale? do they scale to Naga Sadow since Exar was feared by him?

Uhjhhjaodudmisjw

Wait for the CRT revising the tiering to happen...

 

[Rutæhh]

Uhjhhjaodudmisjw

Wait for the CRT revising the tiering to happen...

i was thinking of revising their profiles but are u doing that?

 

[DaReaperMan]

i was thinking of revising their profiles but are u doing that?

They're being entirely rescaled lol

 

[Epyriel]

where do Ulic and Exar Kun scale? do they scale to Naga Sadow since Exar was feared by him?

If you mean in-verse wise, yeah they scale above Naga Sadow through Pre-Prime Exar extinguishing the spirit of Freedon Nadd after believing he had learned everything he needed from him after Freedon Nadd had done the same to Naga Sadow.

And then Exar Kun scales far higher through his ritual that let him compete with the entire Jedi Order at once (stated to number in the “thousands upon thousands”) to the point Yavin IV itself risked being a casualty, and then later even after being weakened through the Wall of Light he still could compete with Luke’s nascent Jedi Order and was placed by Luke on a similar pedestal as DE Sidious.

i was thinking of revising their profiles but are u doing that?

I’m currently planning a big CRT to fix all the AP scalings and fixing a bunch of in-verse scaling issues.

Feel free to begin gathering scans for powers and abilities and stuff, but the actual tiers are going to be changed (hopefully soon).

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Why am I monopolizing canon?

 

[Legion350]

Hmm, that does seems to check out, but outside of the origins that doesn’t include a Jedi and/or Sith, I do think they eventually do have connections to the Jedi and/or Sith in some ways unironically there.

Every Force sensitive groups technically gonna form a connection, hostile or otherwise, to the Jedi and/or Sith Order as well.

Now in the case of Disney lore (Same applies for Legends), I tend to ignore the origins of Force sensitive organizations as the one thing they all have in common is the usage of the Force unironically.

How they use the Force does varied so for me, I tend to make origins/backgrounds for any Force sensitive organization as a minor priority in terms of importance, but their code, ways of life, and so on.

Now that is something I have taken a bit more interest in there, but put in the backburner for the most part.

Edit: Also a funny thing regarding Legends is that the Sith technically do have a species where the Sith order did get the name from.

I think Legends handles it better in many ways, I just don't think origin of the Nightsisters is one of them. I think it's a fair point to say that their origins aren't as important to you, my earlier statement was a reply specifically about the origins in DIsney Canon vs Legends. I don't mind the Nightsisters having connections to the Jedi, I just felt like their origin in Legends was a little too similar to the Sith origin [Fallen Jedi Knight becomes exiled to another planet with a strong dark side connection and preexisting dark side users to start a new order of darksiders] with a witch spin. Doesn't mean the Disney Nightsister's are universally better, because they clearly aren't. I just like the origin more.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I think Legends handles it better in many ways, I just don't think origin of the Nightsisters is one of them. I think it's a fair point to say that their origins aren't as important to you, my earlier statement was a reply specifically about the origins in DIsney Canon vs Legends. I don't mind the Nightsisters having connections to the Jedi, I just felt like their origin in Legends was a little too similar to the Sith origin [Fallen Jedi Knight becomes exiled to another planet with a strong dark side connection and preexisting dark side users to start a new order of darksiders] with a witch spin. Doesn't mean the Disney Nightsister's are universally better, because they clearly aren't. I just like the origin more.

Understandable there. I generally don’t bother with the origins for Force Sensitives Organization for reasons I already outlined.

Now that is out of the way, Legends need some serious retrospective at some point from the Star Wars community outside of the movie series as I don’t think there was enough coverage on the novels and stuff.

As I always did find it intriguing for the novelizations of Star Wars movies and other Legends stuff to have some interesting ideas to cover.

 

[Legion350]

Although as pointed out in Legends, the Force can essentially do anything, it's not a Hard Magic System like some people claim it is, it can be said that Allya discovered a different way to use the Force that the Jedi declared forbidden.

Although it really brings into question what exactly makes the Nightsisters different from the Lost Tribe of the Sith

I wouldn't call the Force a hard magic system either. The difference is that the Sith claim descent from a specific group of Jedi Exiles from the Nightsisters

Understandable there. I generally don’t bother with the origins for Force Sensitives Organization for reasons I already outlined.

Now that is out of the way, Legends need some serious retrospective at some point from the Star Wars community outside of the movie series as I don’t think there was enough coverage on the novels and stuff.

As I always did find it intriguing for the novelizations of Star Wars movies and other Legends stuff to have some interesting ideas to cover.

I think one of my favorite things from Legends that Disney SW hasn't really handled the same way, is the blending of sci fi and fantasy. Granted it wasn't always executed in the best way, but I think ancient force creatures like the Bedlam Spirits are a really cool concept. I also thought it was really cool fascinating how some of the old lore explored the viewpoints of many force users in waaay more depth.

 

[Epyriel]

I think Legends handles it better in many ways, I just don't think origin of the Nightsisters is one of them. I think it's a fair point to say that their origins aren't as important to you, my earlier statement was a reply specifically about the origins in DIsney Canon vs Legends. I don't mind the Nightsisters having connections to the Jedi, I just felt like their origin in Legends was a little too similar to the Sith origin [Fallen Jedi Knight becomes exiled to another planet with a strong dark side connection and preexisting dark side users to start a new order of darksiders] with a witch spin. Doesn't mean the Disney Nightsister's are universally better, because they clearly aren't. I just like the origin more.

I do kinda agree with this. Always felt the non-Jedi/Sith factions of Force users were under-explored.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I just discovered something really disgusting.

 

[Legion350]

I just discovered something really disgusting.

???

 

[DaReaperMan]

I just discovered something really disgusting.

That Ahsoka has 13452 images on R34?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

???

That Ahsoka has 13452 images on R34?

Spend to see microscopic details of one object within engaged range.

The user may spend to see in every direction simultaneously, noticing and observing things in a full 360-degree arc.

The user may spend The user now can see as though from a spot within close range (planetary scale) of the user's body, If the user is on the surface of a world, this distance can be a vertical attitude in the air as well as along the surface, if in space this can be in any direc ton.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Anyone think that Old Daka might be Allya herself?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Seriously, no response? An emoji? Not a single one?

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

Seriously, no response? An emoji? Not a single one?

idk what those mean

 

[Phsccarvalho]

idk what those mean

360-degree vision, seeing things at a microscopic level, and something I didn't quite understand about planetary scale.

 

[DaReaperMan]

360-degree vision, seeing things at a microscopic level, and something I didn't quite understand about planetary scale.

I'm a fan of Warhammer. Random people see on the ******* atomic level, can predict thing accurately 65 million ******* years in advance, and spooky sorcerer Supremes who can murk anyone across the planet who uses anything related to death, necromancy, or souls whatsoever.

 

[Legion350]

Anyone think that Old Daka might be Allya herself?

Could be possible. Just found out that many of the Dathomir clans are still canon. If Allya founded Talzin's clan, then they could blend the two origins together with clever writing. Talzin's clan makes up the majority of nightsisters because it originated from multiple smaller clans that were unified.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

That isn't new:

Scans like this are good.

I'll use them.

No way, in the likely CRT about these powers I mentioned, I'll only use scans from the RPG.

I'll collect scans to demonstrate that the described force power "exists" in the canon. Like, it's not something that only appears in the RPG and never appeared in other media.

If I don't find them, I probably won't make this CRT.

-

Speaking of which, I found the "Imbue" power.

Those who count the Force as their ally can in turn use it to imbue their companions by resting a hand on a friend’s shoulder or arm or simply standing beside them as a steady presence, and as they reach out to touch the Force they channel its power through their bodies and into the nearby ally, allowing that ally to accomplish great and terrible feats such as jumping higher, thinking faster, and striking harder with the Force, even if the ally cannot normally touch it, for the Force flows through all living things.

-
Do you think the things below are good enough as support?

Hera and the team take the Ghost to help, Ahsoka Tano with them. "The Force is strong with him," Tano says of the Imperial pilot. Joining her powers with Kanan, she reaches out, connecting with Vader. "The apprentice lives," Vader says.

https://www.starwars.com/series/star-wars-rebels/the-siege-of-lothal-episode-gallery

 

[Epyriel]

Speaking of which, I found the "Imbue" power.

-
Do you think the things below are good enough as support?

Yep, that should be fine.

 

[Epyriel]

Also I have no idea how I missed this before…

I wasted so much time looking through source books trying to find weapon descriptions that confirmed specific blaster deflection feats were done with lasers or otherwise confirmed lightspeed weaponry in order to save straight FTL ratings without that one ancient offsite calc without needing to dubiously assume flat SOL ratings for all blasters…

And somehow completely missed until now that Dooku is just straight up called FTL in the mighty chronicles recounting of AOTC:

Obi-Wan used the Force to summon his lightsaber and tossed it to Anakin. With two lightsabers, the young Jedi attacked anew. But Dooku blocked every thrust and, step by step, drove Anakin back. He slashed through one lightsaber, extinguishing its blade. Then, with a stroke faster than light, he cut through Anakin's right arm at the elbow.

-Attack of the Clones (Mighty Chronicles)

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I think I'll leave that Force Spirit thing for later, since I'd have to create new keys. It's not much, but bleh.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Hello?

 

[Fireld]

Seriously, no response? An emoji? Not a single one?

Sorry chief, that image wasn't working/uploading for me for some reason

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Sorry chief, that image wasn't working/uploading for me for some reason

But...but I wrote...

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Based on the RPG elements I've shown, we could have something like that.

With Farsight, we have numerous examples in the canon of something similar. For example, the initial test of a force sensitive character is seeing images on a screen outside their field of vision; we have Blind Kanan, in addition to statements within the canon itself such as things like smoke and darkness. So I think we can gather enough material to support this.

For Manipulate, I don't remember much. I think the most straightforward example is the Younglings using the Force to build lightsabers (and I'm almost certain I've seen a statement that it's only possible to build one with the Force? I need to research more). We have some examples of Vader building/repairing things. I need to look for more support.

With Imbue, we have the Maul scan, and technically, the dead Jedi boosting Rey in TROS?

Lastly, EBB/Flow. EBB is super simple, it's simply being guided by the Force. Nothing new. Flow is more complicated since it's the Force harming the opponent. I think (I'm not sure) that we have one or two things about the Force influencing events when the character is being guided by it, but I'll need more research.

Note: Don't expect a CRT involving these P&A, unless I find good supporting scans for them. Any help is welcome.

• Enhanced Senses (With Farsight; Force Users can see as clearly as most sentients do on a well-lit day even in total darkness, blinding smoke, or despite lacking eyes or having lost their sight, perceive microscopic details of an object, see through an object as though it were transparent, observe everything around them simultaneously across a full 360-degree arc, and shift their point of perception to any location within close range on a planetary scale—whether to a higher altitude above a world’s surface, along that surface, or in any direction through space—effectively relocating their personal viewpoint far from their physical body as though operating a remote viewing mechanism)
• Technology Manipulation and Matter Manipulation [Molecular] (With Manipulate; Force users can affect components and circuitry on a molecular level, allowing them to better craft and repair items, enhancing the modification and creation of technology, from repairing a landspeeder’s power converter to facilitating intricate alterations in a computer’s logic circuitry, keeping ships operational despite severe damage and pushing vehicles beyond their normal mechanical limits, and although the Force cannot touch the circuits that form a "mind" of a droid, this power can alter a droid’s or other machine’s physical components, allowing him to mend damaged mechanical systems and granting Force users greater combat effectiveness against mechanical adversaries or enemy vehicles)
• Power Bestowal (With Imbue; those who count the Force as their ally can in turn use it to imbue their companions by resting a hand on a friend’s shoulder or arm or simply standing beside them as a steady presence, and as they reach out to touch the Force they channel its power through their bodies and into the nearby ally, allowing that ally to accomplish great and terrible feats such as jumping higher, thinking faster, and striking harder with the Force, even if the ally cannot normally touch it, for the Force flows through all living things)
• Statistics Reduction (With Ebb/Flow; when Force Users truly let the Force flow through them, governing their actions without conscious thought, the Force simply does what they need it to do and they in turn obey its will, feeling it in every move they make as it revitalizes and empowers them while sapping and hindering their enemies)

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

No way, in the likely CRT about these powers I mentioned, I'll only use scans from the RPG.

I'll collect scans to demonstrate that the described force power "exists" in the canon. Like, it's not something that only appears in the RPG and never appeared in other media.

?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

?

I don't want anyone wondering why the ability would be valid if nothing similar appears in mainstream media (movies, series, and cartoons).

For example... if one of those RPGs mentions that Jedi can launch energy blasts from their lightsabers (random example I made up). It would be somewhat dubious to propose this based only on RPG scans, considering it has never appeared or been mentioned in mainstream media.

That's why I talked about looking for supporting scans in mainstream media so that the proposals aren't unbelievable.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

For example... one of those RPGs mentions that Jedi can launch energy blasts from their lightsabers. It would be somewhat dubious to propose this based only on RPG scans, considering it has never appeared or been mentioned in mainstream media.

Funnily enough Lego Star Wars has more support for this than actual Star Wars does. XD

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Funnily enough Lego Star Wars has more support for this than actual Star Wars does. XD

No, that was a random example I made up.

There's nothing about that in those RPGs.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

No, that was a random example I made up.

There's nothing about that in those RPGs.

Oh. Well what I said is still true.