"Horseman of War vs. Prince of the Dark" (Yoru vs. Ralsei) (Chainsaw Man vs Deltarune) (0-8-0) (Grace)

[Qurbonboev]

so, fellas, should I unrestricted the gauntlets and give Ralsei his city scaling as well or do the delta rune support think ralsei could have it with just MCB level scaling due to being able to nearly one tapp the glass cannon that is Yoru?

Giving city scaling to Ralsei is useless, he is still gonna get onetapped by gauntlets that did 2.5x times stronger Pochita dirty.
Yoru aren't gonna sacrifice her children first in the fight against this creature

(And by the time Ralsei locks in and she realises that he is actually dangerous, it would be already too late)

 

[Bruh]

She can use Gauntlets if they are not restricted, but its unlikely that she would use them from the start, since it requires sacrificing her children first

Youre misunderstanding sth, if she has the gaunlets on her body then that means her children are already sacrificed. If she doesnt start with them then shes missing an arm and doesnt have the gauntlets for the fight. When have we force characters to fetch their equipment mid fight ?, they either start with or without them and thats that.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Giving city scaling to Ralsei is useless, he is still gonna get onetapped by gauntlets that did 2.5x times stronger Pochita dirty.

Well, technically, the wiki considers a one shot to be something a bit lower than 8x.
The 2.5x AP difference will hurt like hell but shouldn't tear holes in Ralsei

Yoru aren't gonna sacrifice her children first in the fight against this creature

(And by the time Ralsei locks in and she realises that he is actually dangerous, it would be already too late)

So, I should make Ralsei serious then?

 

[Arkenis]

Youre misunderstanding sth, if she has the gaunlets on her body then that means her children are already sacrificed. If she doesnt start with them then shes missing an arm and doesnt have the gauntlets for the fight. When have we force characters to fetch their equipment mid fight ?, they either start with or without them and thats that.

Well the ap section treats it as something they can enter/activate.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Youre misunderstanding sth, if she has the gaunlets on her body then that means her children are already sacrificed. If she doesnt start with them then shes missing an arm and doesnt have the gauntlets for the fight. When have we force characters to fetch their equipment mid fight ?, they either start with or without them and thats that.

when the equipment isn't standard equipment and literally has to be summoned

Yes, Yoru has one arm in this matchup up right now but she's fullycapable of fighting with said one arm so it's not like she's super disadvantages. She has LS advantage with the sword she literally has in her hands, range with the turrets granted to her, and AP advantage with her sword.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Well, technically, the wiki considers a one shot to be something a bit lower than 8x.

Right Gauntlet(weaker one) heavily upscales from Pochita though.

So, I should make Ralsei serious then?

when the equipment isn't standard equipment and literally has to be summoned

Can you elaborate:
1. Does she needs to sacrifice her children first to get gauntlets
2. Or children are already sacrificed, and she has access to them already
I thought situation is first one. But if it's second one(and she already has large island bullet), make him serious and switch to chapter 4 key

 

[Arkenis]

So you made a match where a plushie toy is beating up a disabled, autistic girl?

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Right Gauntlet(weaker one) heavily upscales from Pochita though.

heavy upscaling don't make a 8x difference, he shouldn't get one shot

Can you elaborate:
1. Does she needs to sacrifice her children first to get gauntlets
2. Or children are already sacrificed, and she has access to them already
I thought situation is first one. But if it's second one(and she already has large island bullet), make him serious and switch to chapter 4 key

Needs to sacrofice first unless noted in a Matchup Op that she has them on her.
Mind you, her gauntlet summoning is FTL+ (which just means she has insanely fast summoning thanks to equal speed) so, if she wants, she will get it off but that's, of ourse, if she's able to get it off with Ralsei having that range thing Deltarune character have so with him nearly oneshotting him

 

[Qurbonboev]

Needs to sacrofice first unless noted in a Matchup Op that she has them on her.

So she has them as of currently(OP still states that they are restricted).
Are there any limits to usage of gauntlets? Are numbers of Gun Goddess bullets limited. Afaik she uses them only against Pochita and Falling, and prolly wouldn't use it against fodder

 

[ShionAH]

Yoru with no arms no weapons no summons no extra extra strong attacks no eyes no brain no legs no body no hair no power no Asa no powers no Yoru vs Ralsei

 

[Bruh]

when the equipment isn't standard equipment and literally has to be summoned

Yes, Yoru has one arm in this matchup up right now but she's fullycapable of fighting with said one arm so it's not like she's super disadvantages. She has LS advantage with the sword she literally has in her hands, range with the turrets granted to her, and AP advantage with her sword.

Just a few chapter ago, she stated that she cant move well with only one arm and was stumpling in some scene so good luck hitting someone who regularly dodge Danmaku that outranges you, the turrets is stationary and easily destroyable. Her standard weapons are painfully weak and lacking in sauce.
And i consider her gauntlets to be less of a summoned weapons like Accident Whip and Moon Spear and more like a permanent add on to her character, besides when we use a key of character we used their strongest most updated version in said key, which would include Yoru with her gauntlet as she permanently has them on for the rest of the key since there isnt a seperate Post fear boost key where she doesnt have them. That wold be like using Dark Hero Deku but not allowing him to use Fajin since he doesnt start using it until the Nagant fight

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Yoru with no arms

One

no weapons

two weapons

no summons no extra extra strong attacks no eyes no brain no legs no body no hair no power no Asa no powers no Yoru vs Ralsei

Ralsei puts her in a body bag or SI diffs via Asa either way

 

[MochOath]

Yoru with no arms no weapons no summons no extra extra strong attacks no eyes no brain no legs no body no hair no power no Asa no powers no Yoru vs Ralsei

Yoru apparently

 

[Bruh]

Right Gauntlet(weaker one) heavily upscales from Pochita though.

If im not wrong, Ralsei upscale from 6.3 Mt while Pochita upscale from 15.9 Mt and the gauntlets can punch holes through his body and ripped his arm off

Are there any limits to usage of gauntlets? Are numbers of Gun Goddess bullets limited. Afaik she uses them only against Pochita and Falling, and prolly wouldn't use it against fodder

For now, no limit on the gauntlets. The GG required her to sacrifice the index finger of some people to start using but after that she can use with no other conditions that we know of, but yeah she would likely not use them on someone right off the bat unless she think theyre strong/scary/annoying

 

[Bruh]

She cant win with either the gauntlets or GG since this match wont be added then, at most you could give Yoru her Tank gauntlet since it has all her other weapons but even then she lacks the range and pricision to hit someone like Ralsei from range or make use of her LS before Ralsei eventually tag her with near oneshot AP or hax

 

[Qurbonboev]

One

two weapons

Ralsei puts her in a body bag or SI diffs via Asa either way

If im not wrong, Ralsei upscale from 6.3 Mt while Pochita upscale from 15.9 Mt and the gauntlets can punch holes through his body and ripped his arm off

For now, no limit on the gauntlets. The GG required her to sacrifice the index finger of some people to start using but after that she can use with no other conditions that we know of, but yeah she would likely not use them on someone right off the bat unless she think theyre strong/scary/annoying

Give her both arms and all optional equipment. Unironically would reduce her chances of winning, since she would waste time trying to kill Ralsei without use of gauntlets, instead opting out for weapons.
Ralsei would still lock in or SI Asa faster than Yoru uses gauntlets.
(Btw how high would Yoru scale speedwise in later keys? If it's to spear(1.25c), we can have good matchup deciding whether she murks him first or Ralsei incaps her)

 

[Bruh]

Give her both arms and all optional equipment. Unironically would reduce her chances of winning, since she would waste time trying to kill Ralsei without use of gauntlets, instead opting out for weapons.
Ralsei would still lock in or SI Asa faster than Yoru uses gauntlets.

Thing is she kinda becomes a gauntlet spam merchant after getting them so she would likely spam them first thing and only try using her other weapons when the gauntlets dont seem to be working
SI Asa is cool and all but there are some problems: Asa is inherently antisocial and distrustful of strangers so i dont think she would appreciate someone random English voice (shes Japanese) talking to her that much. And while scared of Yoru's plan for humanity, she still considers Yoru's a close "friend" in this key and wont interfere with her in a justified fight like she did with Denji later. Also Yoru have much stronger control of Asa's body in this key and can wrestle any attempt at repossesion from Asa, the only way Asa seems to be able to interfere is if something personal happens that elicit some strong emotion from her like anger/disgust from Yoru jorking Denji or fear/shock at Yoru's killing hundreds of innocents (even this she kinda got jaded to). So i dont think Ralsei average SI would be able to do much in these regard. But again, if Yoru wins with the gauntlets or GG then this match is void due to Speed equalized rules

 

[Qurbonboev]

Thing is she kinda becomes a gauntlet spam merchant after getting them so she would likely spam them first thing and only try using her other weapons when the gauntlets dont seem to be working

In this case, there are only two way to make match valid:
1. Restrict Gauntlets. But CSM sups think it would be a stomp
2. Put conditions that she needs to sacrifice her children first to access them. This way Yoru would use her weapons first.
What do sups think?

 

[Bruh]

In this case, there are only two way to make match valid:
1. Restrict Gauntlets. But CSM sups think it would be a stomp
2. Put conditions that she needs to sacrifice her children first to access them. This way Yoru would use her weapons first.
What do sups think?

Either way i think its a mismatch, either Ralsei stomps, Yoru stomps, Yoru start with one arm and get stomped or somehow hang on long enough to counter-stomp with the Gauntlets which would still be invalid no matter what condition we give it.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Snip

You prolly should close this for mismatch. Either Ralsei stomps(actually it's decisive win, but I don't feel arguing ts) or Yoru stomps via Gauntlets which make fight results invalid

 

[Bruh]

You prolly should close this for mismatch. Either Ralsei stomps(actually it's decisive win, but I don't feel arguing ts

Hey Ralsei stomping is just my lone opnion so you should probably wait for more CSM sup to argue for Yoru before asking him to close the thread. Your arguments and others could shed more light on the matter

 

[Qurbonboev]

Hey Ralsei stomping is just my lone opnion so you should probably wait for more CSM sup to argue for Yoru before asking him to close the thread. Your arguments and others could shed more light on the matter

Well then.
What does CSM sups think of scenario where Yoru has everything, besides gauntlets (if she uses them to win, results would be invalid due to speed equalization rules)?

 

[Hiiilt]

anything besides gauntlets would prolly result in yoru trying to go for cqc and getting overhelmed by ralsei's attacks that ignore distance (the only thing that yoru could use from afar are her turrets but i just can't see ralsei getting hit by them)

 

[Bruh]

Yoru's probably better at CQC (idk Deltarune) but seeing that Ralsei is used to dodging, the chance of her landing an attack is slim, not to mention she has to land it with either the Room 606 swords or the Uniform sword from Tank gauntlet since her other weapons barely upscale from baseline MCB. And she has to do this while trying not to get slept or pummel by Ralsei 5x AP diff, not to mention soul hax

 

[Qurbonboev]

Yoru's probably better at CQC (idk Deltarune)

Ralsei has precisely 0 CQC feats. If opponent is forcing CQC he would try to retreat, which def could be exploited successfully by Yoru
Turrets roughly scale to Ralsei, decapitation via swords is guaranteed wincon.
As I already have said, Ralsei starters would be SI(would be useless here) or sleep hax(actually viable wincons, but takes time to pull it off due to Yoru stamina).
I don't see it as stomp, Yoru actually has a chance of winning before Ralsei locks in and kills her with soulhax, or just sleephaxs her.

 

[Qurbonboev]

the only thing that yoru could use from afar are her turrets but i just can't see ralsei getting hit by them

Ralsei is not Touhou protag, he will get hit by turrets. But his healing and invisibility frames(work for around 1 second) would make them dubious wincon. So Yoru would need to perform decapitation via swords, or something similar.

 

[Bruh]

decapitation via swords is guaranteed wincon.

The only swords that would decap are Room 606 and Uniform, the rest i dont see doing that with the AP diff. Also Yoru might have decent stam but shes not the type to shrug of hits like Denji or Deku, hit her with a strong attack and she'll stagger and drop her weapon and considering Ralsei near one shot AP that just seems like one good hit to the stomach or head that eventually lead to Yoru being steamroll by attacks. How experienced/serious is Ralsei, is he the type to get scared or run when a lady with a sword comes charging at him or would he instanly retaliates ?

 

[Qurbonboev]

The only swords that would decap are Room 606 and Uniform, the rest i dont see doing that with the AP diff.

Well, I am already proposing for her to have all of her swords.

Also Yoru might have decent stam but shes not the type to shrug

In regard to resistance to sleephax things like "can keep up fighting despite being tired" are important, not specifically "can keep up fighting despite taking huge damage".

How experienced/serious is Ralsei, is he the type to get scared or run when a lady with a sword comes charging at him or would he instanly retaliates ?

Pretty experienced in danmaku and dodging, practically zero experience in CQC(closest thing is him killing Sound of Justice in sneak attack).
He won't get scared easily, only thing that really scared him was Titan (who have fearhax and will cause apocalypse if left unopposed).
He won't retaliate(with what, scarves against swords?) but instead would retreat back, and try to SI/sleephax, which could be quite difficult while facing War Devil, who obviously knows how to exploit retreating opponent.

 

[Bruh]

I just dont think Yoru got what it takes comparatively
Ralsei has:

• Better Stats (AP/Dura-> over 5x, LS)
• Range
• Hax
• More reliable healing
• General inteligence

Meanwhile Yoru only has:

• Just enough AP (with 3 weapons)
• Better CQC
• Better LS (only with one weapon equipped, without it shes Class 100, and she doesnt grapple in character anyway)
• Restricted healing (need blood)
• Transmutation that requires her to actually beat Ralsei first

Yoru feels like shes battling an uphill battle with the bare necessity while Ralsei has a truck load of options and plenty means to use them

 

[Qurbonboev]

Snip

Few corrections:
1. Ralsei doesn't use LS advantage in character too
2. Yoru having below average intelligence because Asa calls her stupid is hilarious (prolly should be fixed in Yoru CRT). And her combat intelligence is much more important, she needs to exploit Ralsei retreating from her

I won't deny that this is uphill battle for Yoru. But she has proper wincon of exploiting Ralsei unwillingness to engage in CQC(which forces him to always retreat from close combat), his overall friendliness(he won't start with soulhax, but with SI) and decapitating him with SSUS

 

[Bruh]

Few corrections:
1. Ralsei doesn't use LS advantage in character too
2. Yoru having below average intelligence because Asa calls her stupid is hilarious (prolly should be fixed in Yoru CRT). And her combat intelligence is much more important, she needs to exploit Ralsei retreating from her

I won't deny that this is uphill battle for Yoru. But she has proper wincon of exploiting Ralsei unwillingness to engage in CQC(which forces him to always retreat from close combat), his overall friendliness(he won't start with soulhax, but with SI) and decapitating him with SSUS

I see your point, well if the match isnt considered a stomp by others then i vote ralsei can my girlfailure get a proper win for once

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Just a few chapter ago, she stated that she cant move well with only one arm and was stumpling in some scene so good luck hitting someone who regularly dodge Danmaku that outranges you, the turrets is stationary and easily destroyable. Her standard weapons are painfully weak and lacking in sauce.

her 606 sword isn't a standard weapon and ain't weak. It literally gives her AP over Ralsei

And i consider her gauntlets to be less of a summoned weapons like Accident Whip and Moon Spear and more like a permanent add on to her character, besides when we use a key of character we used their strongest most updated version in said key, which would include Yoru with her gauntlet as she permanently has them on for the rest of the key since there isnt a seperate Post fear boost key where she doesnt have them. That wold be like using Dark Hero Deku but not allowing him to use Fajin since he doesnt start using it until the Nagant fight

Cool but, regardless of what you consider a summoned weapon, They aren't labed as standard equipment and She literally has to summon the gauntlets, I don't get what's so hard to understand.
Holy straw man, Dark Hero Deku didn't need a whole chapter to summon Fajin on his arms from thousands of kilometers away.
I'm giving her gun gauntlets and Gun goddess cuz the Deltarune Supports think they can handle but, holy ru glaze that ain't even defending on whether or not she can win. Ya'll basically saying she needs her children and her child's contacts to put a fight against anyone

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Yoru, the war devil, Horseman of the apocalypse, according to CSM supports

 

[Qurbonboev]

Snip

It turns out that Yoru spams her gauntlets if she has them, which would make her a obvious winner(due to bullets blitzing Ralsei), but her win would be void due to speed equalization rules.
It would be more fair to restrict gauntlets, and give Yoru all optional equipment. Ralsei still dominates and likely wins, but Yoru gets proper wincons(CQC, decapitation via sword, battle IQ).

See

Yoru feels like shes battling an uphill battle with the bare necessity while Ralsei has a truck load of options and plenty means to use them

I see your point, well if the match isnt considered a stomp by others then i vote ralsei can my girlfailure get a proper win for once

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

understood. I didn't see all that when I typed the message, Gauntlets and Gun Goddess restricted but all her all other optional equipment is granted.

 

[Bruh]

her 606 sword isn't a standard weapon and ain't weak. It literally gives her AP over Ralsei

550 tons/513 tons

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

550 tons/513 tons

Still stronger is it not?

 

[Bruh]

Still stronger is it not?

Barely and with only one thing, Ralsei whole kit is over 5x Yorus stat

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

bump

 

[Bruh]

Ive already cast my vote (Ralsei) and expressed all my point/concern so.....