My Massive Midway Mortal Kombat Maintenance Manifest

[Rex_Eckles]

I'm in an "M" mood.

Proposal 1: In the beginning...
I made a dedicated cosmology page for the Midway Mortal Kombat realms, that way we can give an actual statistical rating to the One Being and the Kamidogu (more on that later). It probably will be useful for any ability additions down the line, but let's do one thing at a time.

Proposal 2: ______ Joins the Battle!
I made three new profiles that I thought were important for the current scaling: 1) Cyrax [so we can use my self-destruct calc on the verse page for an actual profile] 2) Goro [ since he's one of the three characters who establish the currently upscaling to baseline High 8-C] 3) Kenshi

Kenshi is important because, as mentioned in his Deception Bio, he lost a fight to Mavado. Since Kenshi demonstrated relativity to Hotaru and Deception Sub-Zero, who are High 8-C, Mavado should be granted a baseline High 8-C rating.

Proposal 3: Shujinko gets his due.
Between this and the Versus Threads, you'd think I'm Shujinko's number one fan
I made a revised profile for Shujinko which reflect the different stages of his life during Konquest Mode and a more accurate list of the abilities he gains from his teachers in Deception. There are two important ramifications for scaling involving him:

1. Because of young Shujinko's High 8-C rating, being comparable to Ashrah and one of Bo' Rai Cho's best students, Havik should get at least a "possibly High 8-C" for fighting Shujinko. Why possibly? Because other weaker fighters like Jade and Baraka do fight Shujinko, but they ultimately lose and are still ultimately inferior to him, so they don't get upscaling (in Jade's case, it would be circular scaling). We don't really know how strong Havik is compared to the Outworld fighters, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he upscales them.

2. Shujinko should be 2-C at the end of Deception with the fighters' powers absorbed. Why? Because we know that Onaga was amped by the Kamidogu, they have destructive power even individually, as they were still separated when they were used to split the One Being. As referenced throughout Deception, the fusing of the Kamidogu are what would give Onaga ultimate power, not just molding the realms but being unchallenged by the Elder Gods, who waged war against the already accepted 2-C One Being. So there's no contradiction for the unfused Kamidogu to still downscale from the complete destruction of the realms.

Keep in mind that Shujinko can still fight and hurt Onaga with all six Kamidogu, and shattering the Kamidogu rendered Onaga completely helpless against Shujinko's might. So there's no contradiction for Shujinko being so strong.

Proposal 4: Profile Clean Up
Just some general fixes for the profiles:

1) Remove the dragon Transformation from Liu Kang's profile, since my previous thread reached the consensus that Fatalities are usable as long as they're based on canonical abilities of the characters. Liu Kang turning into a dragon is a blatant violation of this consensus, so it's gotta go.

2) I'm sick of everyone's stamina being just "High" or "Unknown" without justification. I propose that everyone should get Superhuman (settled on Athletic Human, possible Peak Human) stamina as the games make it very clear that fighters are capable of continuing a fight even with notable lacerations and after substantial blood loss (keep your eyes on the floor, it's stained with blood). Keep in mind that the developers behind Deadly Alliance thought it necessary to add a reaction animation for characters being stabbed by Scorpion's hand spear, I don't think it would be fair to dismiss that as mere game mechanics.

Taven in particular should get an additional justification for being able to fight his way all the way up the Pyramid of Argus without notable breaks.

3) Pretty much every character should get resistances to Heat/Fire Manipulation for surviving fire-based attacks like Scorpions and to Absolute Zero/Ice Manipulation for being able to break out of Sub-Zero's ice. The Younger Sub-Zero's freezing potency should be similar (or superior with the Dragon Medallion) to his brother, who could freeze to minus 500 degrees Fahrenheit (technically below Absolute Zero, but I'm pretty sure that's the intention)

4. Can't believe I almost forgot this, Kai's profile is outdated, with Superhuman speed and Class 5 lifting strength, both of which need to be updated to Class K and Massively Hypersonic+

Well that's about everything.

Agree:

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Bump.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Bump.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Bump (also added a forgotten update for Kai).

 

[SamanPatou]

I'm in an "M" mood.

Proposal 1: In the beginning...
I made a dedicated cosmology page for the Midway Mortal Kombat realms, that way we can give an actual statistical rating to the One Being and the Kamidogu (more on that later). It probably will be useful for any ability additions down the line, but let's do one thing at a time.

Looks ok and well-contructed, but you need to add references to the blog.

Proposal 2: ______ Joins the Battle!
I made three new profiles that I thought were important for the current scaling: 1) Cyrax [so we can use my self-destruct calc on the verse page for an actual profile] 2) Goro [ since he's one of the three characters who establish the currently upscaling to baseline High 8-C] 3) Kenshi

Kenshi is important because, as mentioned in his Deception Bio, he lost a fight to Mavado. Since Kenshi demonstrated relativity to Hotaru and Deception Sub-Zero, who are High 8-C, Mavado should be granted a baseline High 8-C rating.

These files are relatively ok, but they could use some clean-up, mostly because some lack scans and/or references, and at times the wording for the statistics is a tad-bit convoluted, notes would be great in this regard.
Something along the lines of the Midway files made by Ectasy Amphetamine some time ago. (we should also split the characters on the verse page, honestly).

I may perform a deeper analysis of the singular profiles later.

Proposal 3: Shujinko gets his due.
Between this and the Versus Threads, you'd think I'm Shujinko's number one fan
I made a revised profile for Shujinko which reflect the different stages of his life during Konquest Mode and a more accurate list of the abilities he gains from his teachers in Deception. There are two important ramifications for scaling involving him:

The file's overall good, but there are some fixes to be made, such as the first reference being broken, some scans and references missing, some powers being unjustified and some much needed clean up for punctuation and spelling errors.
Also, I don't believe Power Mimicry can be accounted for a higher tier, considering it's not a temporary boost, so I'll set for a precise tier for each stage of his life and mention that he can rapidly grow more powerful, as it depends on his opponent and it's sort of a natural progression of strength. rather than instantaneous boost.

1. Because of young Shujinko's High 8-C rating, being comparable to Ashrah and one of Bo' Rai Cho's best students, Havik should get at least a "possibly High 8-C" for fighting Shujinko. Why possibly? Because other weaker fighters like Jade and Baraka do fight Shujinko, but they ultimately lose and are still ultimately inferior to him, so they don't get upscaling (in Jade's case, it would be circular scaling). We don't really know how strong Havik is compared to the Outworld fighters, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he upscales them.

I guess it works, unless something in Havik's material contradicts it, such as a notable, canon defeat by a weaker character.

2. Shujinko should be 2-C at the end of Deception with the fighters' powers absorbed. Why? Because we know that Onaga was amped by the Kamidogu, they have destructive power even individually, as they were still separated when they were used to split the One Being. As referenced throughout Deception, the fusing of the Kamidogu are what would give Onaga ultimate power, not just molding the realms but being unchallenged by the Elder Gods, who waged war against the already accepted 2-C One Being. So there's no contradiction for the unfused Kamidogu to still downscale from the complete destruction of the realms.

Keep in mind that Shujinko can still fight and hurt Onaga with all six Kamidogu, and shattering the Kamidogu rendered Onaga completely helpless against Shujinko's might. So there's no contradiction for Shujinko being so strong.

That sounds fine but I wouldn't scale Shujinko to Onaga prior to the absorption of the fighters' power, as the in-game battle seems but a representation of the following cutscene and not a prequel.

Proposal 4: Profile Clean Up
Just some general fixes for the profiles:

1) Remove the dragon Transformation from Liu Kang's profile, since my previous thread reached the consensus that Fatalities are usable as long as they're based on canonical abilities of the characters. Liu Kang turning into a dragon is a blatant violation of this consensus, so it's gotta go.

Makes sense, but at that point we need justification for each fatality to be used or not, for example, is Cyrax's self-destruction mentioned or showcased anywhere else rather than the fatalities?

2) I'm sick of everyone's stamina being just "High" or "Unknown" without justification. I propose that everyone should get Superhuman stamina as the games make it very clear that fighters are capable of continuing a fight even with notable lacerations and after substantial blood loss (keep your eyes on the floor, it's stained with blood). Keep in mind that the developers behind Deadly Alliance thought it necessary to add a reaction animation for characters being stabbed by Scorpion's hand spear, I don't think it would be fair to dismiss that as mere game mechanics.

In lack of precise feats, I would opt for a more conservatice "At least Athletic (they're all trained fighters), likely/possibly peak human (due to the generally violent tone of the battles), but not follow gameplay to the letter, since it's not meant to realistic, otherwise you could juts assume every character can take 10-15 sword slashes to the face before going down a single lifebar and getting up for a second round.
It's similar to modern MK games where characters can be hit by X-Rays and similar attacks, each of which being blatantly lethal or seriously crippling, but in cutscenes they fall for much less.

Taven in particular should get an additional justification for being able to fight his way all the way up the Pyramid of Argus without notable breaks.

Setting aside what's canon or not (I assume we take MK9's incipit as the canon ending?), isn't it what all the fighters were supposed to do and manage to accomplish in their respective endings?

3) Pretty much every character should get resistances to Heat/Fire Manipulation for surviving fire-based attacks like Scorpions and to Absolute Zero/Ice Manipulation for being able to break out of Sub-Zero's ice. The Younger Sub-Zero's freezing potency should be similar (or superior with the Dragon Medallion) to his brother, who could freeze to minus 500 degrees Fahrenheit (technically below Absolute Zero, but I'm pretty sure that's the intention)

I disagree, not only because it's based entirely on gameplay, thus falling under game mechanics, but also because all characters do take damage and suffer from those attacks. Them not dying immediately like a normal human being would do has to be ruled out as suspension of disbelief, game mechanics, overall supernatural build and such, otherwise literally most game characters would have such resistances by default, and you should add resistance to elements such as electricity and more.

4. Can't believe I almost forgot this, Kai's profile is outdated, with Superhuman speed and Class 5 lifting strength, both of which need to be updated to Class K and Massively Hypersonic+

I guess so?
Also, why is his profile picture so damn big?

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Looks ok and well-contructed, but you need to add references to the blog.

Alright, does that include the embedded images too?

some powers being unjustified

I just took the accepted abilities of the characters he trained under. If it's not too much trouble, which ones stood out to you as unjustified?

Power Mimicry can be accounted for a higher tier

Fair point, I also should reclassify it to "with Power Absorption", since that more accurately reflects that aspect of his ability.

That sounds fine but I wouldn't scale Shujinko to Onaga prior to the absorption of the fighters' power, as the in-game battle seems but a representation of the following cutscene and not a prequel.

Yep, makes sense. Thanks.

Makes sense, but at that point we need justification for each fatality to be used or not, for example, is Cyrax's self-destruction mentioned or showcased anywhere else rather than the fatalities?

Ones that are clearly gags aren't used and ones that aren't baked into pre-existing moves aren't used. Maybe we can make a note on the verse page.

otherwise you could juts assume every character can take 10-15 sword slashes to the face before going down a single lifebar and getting up for a second round.

I suppose so, but at least we can take "deep lacerations" from hand spears and the like into account, no?

not only because it's based entirely on gameplay

I mean, it'd be weird if people fight Sub-Zero and never get hit by his ice.

you should add resistance to elements such as electricity and more

How did I forget that? We do know that, canonically, Shang Tsung and Quan-Chi could survive Raiden's lightning, so elemental resistance isn't unprecedented.

Also, why is his profile picture so damn big?

I dunno, I could fix it if you want.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Bump.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I think this looks pretty good

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Bump.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Bump.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Bump.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Might as well bump in the meantime.

 

[Reiner04]

This is fine

 

[Rex_Eckles]

This is fine

Do you have any thoughts on SamanPatou's contentions?

 

[SamanPatou]

Alright, does that include the embedded images too?

You mean those uploaded on the wiki? In any case, yes, people need to be able to reliably trace whatever you offer as evidence.

I just took the accepted abilities of the characters he trained under. If it's not too much trouble, which ones stood out to you as unjustified?

All that don't have a justification. We know he can copy abilities, but do we know which one he has actually absorbed? I may be too conversative but I'm skeptical in assuming he's absorbed every single ability of the characters he's trained with, unless shown or stated.

Ones that are clearly gags aren't used and ones that aren't baked into pre-existing moves aren't used. Maybe we can make a note on the verse page.

Sounds alright

I suppose so, but at least we can take "deep lacerations" from hand spears and the like into account, no?

Yes, but still as possibilities, as the gameplay fights aren't accurate representation on canon clashes, as those seen in the cutscenes.

I mean, it'd be weird if people fight Sub-Zero and never get hit by his ice.

Indeed, but the point is that each takes the full-blunt of its force, instead of resisting it. Them surviving what would normally kill a simple human is already accounted by superhuman physical characteristics, as these characters, like all characters in fiction, can handle much more punishment from all sort of sources (elements, force, vibrations, you name it) by simple virtue of being superhumans, instead of possessing specific resistances to everything.

How did I forget that? We do know that, canonically, Shang Tsung and Quan-Chi could survive Raiden's lightning, so elemental resistance isn't unprecedented.

Refer to my comment above.

I dunno, I could fix it if you want.

Yes, I was mostly joking because it really struck me, lol.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

You mean those uploaded on the wiki? In any case, yes, people need to be able to reliably trace whatever you offer as evidence.

Alright, I added them.

All that don't have a justification. We know he can copy abilities, but do we know which one he has actually absorbed? I may be too conversative but I'm skeptical in assuming he's absorbed every single ability of the characters he's trained with, unless shown or stated.

In Konquest mode, the characters he trains with go through their entire moveset (here's a playlist of every training mission in the game), it's that game's version of character tutorials.

Sounds alright

Great, I'll be sure to add a note to the verse page.

Yes, but still as possibilities, as the gameplay fights aren't accurate representation on canon clashes, as those seen in the cutscenes.

Alright, I'll go with "Athletic Human", possible "Peak Human" (Due to the generally violent tone of the battles, fighters can keep going even after deep cuts and lacerations)

Indeed, but the point is that each takes the full-blunt of its force, instead of resisting it. Them surviving what would normally kill a simple human is already accounted by superhuman physical characteristics, as these characters, like all characters in fiction, can handle much more punishment from all sort of sources (elements, force, vibrations, you name it) by simple virtue of being superhumans, instead of possessing specific resistances to everything.

Noted, I'll drop it.

Do I have enough approval to apply the changes or do the other staff need to specify what they agree with?

 

[Rex_Eckles]

I'll add the unanimously accepted revisions, i.e. the Cosmology page, note about fatalities, the three new profiles, stamina additions, and Mavado/Havik stuff. I'll wait for SamanPatou's green light for Shujinko's profile.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

All that don't have a justification. We know he can copy abilities, but do we know which one he has actually absorbed? I may be too conversative but I'm skeptical in assuming he's absorbed every single ability of the characters he's trained with, unless shown or stated.

In Konquest mode, the characters he trains with go through their entire moveset (here's a playlist of every training mission in the game), it's that game's version of character tutorials.

I'll add the unanimously accepted revisions, i.e. the Cosmology page, note about fatalities, the three new profiles, stamina additions, and Mavado/Havik stuff. I'll wait for SamanPatou's green light for Shujinko's profile.

Bump.

 

[SamanPatou]

In Konquest mode, the characters he trains with go through their entire moveset (here's a playlist of every training mission in the game), it's that game's version of character tutorials.

Alright then, though make sure to add the proper explanation, maybe after the whole list of abilities he should have acquired from them.

Alright, I'll go with "Athletic Human", possible "Peak Human" (Due to the generally violent tone of the battles, fighters can keep going even after deep cuts and lacerations)

Sounds good.

Do I have enough approval to apply the changes or do the other staff need to specify what they agree with?

I think it's, there's a lot of staff agreements already.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Alright then, though make sure to add the proper explanation, maybe after the whole list of abilities he should have acquired from them.

I did it (with the reference feature).

Are we good to go?

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Alright then, though make sure to add the proper explanation, maybe after the whole list of abilities he should have acquired from them.

I did it (with the reference feature).

Are we good to go?

Bump.

 

[SamanPatou]

Yep, it's good.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Yep, it's good.

Woohoo! Thank you!

 

[Rex_Eckles]

It's been a long journey, but we're finally here: 2-C Mortal Kombat (that's not just the One-Being).