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Some random guy fights a serial killer (AppleMaker vs Patrick Bateman) (7-5-0)

AppleMaker

AppleMaker

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And now it's one of the most repetetive match of F&G. Demon slayer donwgrades might came out earlier than me vs miller match at this point
Not really sure how much my improvements will change the outcome, so here are the rules:
  • Both are unarmed
  • Speed is not equlized (high end for AppleMaker though)
  • Both are 10-A
  • Both are Bloodlusted
  • Starting distance is 10 meters
Apples got stronger than serial killers: 7 (@Username_uhhhIdontknow, @GodSinBad2280, @Monstermadman, @AppleMaker), (@Jin2188), (@Nonynho), (@Edutyn)

Patrick kills the apple jacks (the cereal): 5 (@Axorandom0, @LegendariumOfLies, @Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer, @Rayfire), (@NikHelton)

Bruh, make other matches and calcs (incon):
 
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Patrick does extreme exercises everyday and is in peak physical condition, also his SI is bullshit like dragging a body dripping blood right in front of guy and him not giving a **** bullshit or tricking an entire office he didn't kill Paul Allen (although that is debatable)
 
LegendariumOfLies said:
Patrick does extreme exercises everyday and is in peak physical condition, also his SI is bullshit like dragging a body dripping blood right in front of guy and him not giving a **** bullshit or tricking an entire office he didn't kill Paul Allen (although that is debatable)
Click to expand...
So, you're voting for Patrick?
 
"Bloodlusted" actually benefits AppleMaker more significantly in this specific battle. AM has Statistics Amplification and Rage Power. In a neutral state, Bateman's own discipline might win, but a bloodlusted AM can negate his own fear and gains a physical boost that allows him to lift heavy furniture and fight on par with stronger opponents, such as Bateman-

I feel like Applemaker has a chance through Pain Tolerance and Amps
 
AppleMaker said:
And now it's one of the most repetetive match of F&G. Demon slayer donwgrades might came out earlier than me vs miller match at this point
Not really sure how much my improvements will change the outcome, so here are the rules:
  • Both are unarmed
  • Speed is not equlized (high end for AppleMaker though)
  • Both are 10-A
  • Both are Bloodlusted
  • Starting distance is 10 meters
Apples got stronger than serial killers:

Patrick kills the apple jacks (the cereal):

Bruh, make other matches and calcs (incon):
Click to expand...
Welp here we go again.
Tier: Tie/Draw (though Patrick IS likely higher)
Attack Potency: Tie/Draw
Speed: Tie/Draw
Lifting Strength: Patrick
Striking Strength: Tie/Draw
Durability: Apple
Stamina: Tie/Draw
Range: Tie/Draw
Intelligence: Patrick

So pretty much now comes down to Patrick's lifting strength and intelligence vs Apple's durability...
I'm still not sure how much Apple tanked the falls (as in whether they tanked with absolutely no injury or if they were injured badly but still could move)
Sorta inclined to still give it to Patrick winning/Apple losing due to Patrick outdoing in 2 categories while Apple outdoes in 1 category, but I'm still curious as to size difference cause that could also be a factor... (although Patrick also still has more experience in hurting/killing people in general too welp.)
 
Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer said:
Welp here we go again.
Tier: Tie/Draw (though Patrick IS likely higher)
Attack Potency: Tie/Draw
Speed: Tie/Draw
Lifting Strength: Patrick
Striking Strength: Tie/Draw
Durability: Apple
Stamina: Tie/Draw
Range: Tie/Draw
Intelligence: Patrick

So pretty much now comes down to Patrick's lifting strength and intelligence vs Apple's durability...
I'm still not sure how much Apple tanked the falls (as in whether they tanked with absolutely no injury or if they were injured badly but still could move)
Sorta inclined to still give it to Patrick winning/Apple losing due to Patrick outdoing in 2 categories while Apple outdoes in 1 category, but I'm still curious as to size difference cause that could also be a factor... (although Patrick also still has more experience in hurting/killing people in general too welp.)
Click to expand...
I might also get Speed advantage, considering Patrick don't have concrete values, while mine is 9,3 m/s. Not to mention that besides blunt durability, I have also somewhat high pain and injury tolerance
Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer said:
So pretty much now comes down to Patrick's lifting strength and intelligence vs Apple's durability...
I'm still not sure how much Apple tanked the falls (as in whether they tanked with absolutely no injury or if they were injured badly but still could move)
Click to expand...
Most of the time it's somewhat in the middle. Somewhat painful, but not really, without any sort of injury. Some of them were literally no-sold (like that scooter fall). But for the worst ones I just fell on some vital areas or edges of solid structures
 
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I'm going to wait for more arguments to be made on both sides, but for now I'm leaning towards voting for Bateman. (Not a vote)
 
Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer said:
Welp here we go again.
Tier: Tie/Draw (though Patrick IS likely higher)
Attack Potency: Tie/Draw
Speed: Tie/Draw
Lifting Strength: Patrick
Striking Strength: Tie/Draw
Durability: Apple
Stamina: Tie/Draw
Range: Tie/Draw
Intelligence: Patrick

So pretty much now comes down to Patrick's lifting strength and intelligence vs Apple's durability...
I'm still not sure how much Apple tanked the falls (as in whether they tanked with absolutely no injury or if they were injured badly but still could move)
Sorta inclined to still give it to Patrick winning/Apple losing due to Patrick outdoing in 2 categories while Apple outdoes in 1 category, but I'm still curious as to size difference cause that could also be a factor... (although Patrick also still has more experience in hurting/killing people in general too welp.)
Click to expand...
What kind of person do you have to be for Patrick to beat you in "intelligence"?
 
LegendariumOfLies said:
Eh Patrick is reasonably smart. He attended Business School and managed to cover up his murderous rampages pretty well.
Click to expand...
He's his mom's fantasist, ready to burst into tears because another guy's business card is cooler and because prostitutes aren't interested in his personality.

I'm sure he's never had sex, and you're talking about murder 😂
 
NikHelton said:
He's his mom's fantasist, ready to burst into tears because another guy's business card is cooler and because prostitutes aren't interested in his personality.
Click to expand...
Thats emotional maturity not intelligence. People can be geniuses and immature
NikHelton said:
I'm sure he's never had sex, and you're talking about murder 😂
Click to expand...
Are you talking about Patrick or Apple? Cuz I do think Patrick ****** plenty of prostitutes
 
Even if we take Apples speed at face value, being able to run that quick for a brief period of time has absolutely nothing to do with fighting. It's like saying Usain Bolt in his prime would automatically be great at MMA solely because he's the fastest man alive on foot.

Also, neither the rage amplifications or pain tolerance are much of a factor tbh. Getting angry and experiencing an adrenaline rush is something that literally everyone involuntarily activates in a physical confrontation or a dangerous situation, and I find it unreasonable to assume that Patrick wouldn't have the same thing happen to him. It's not really an advantage for Apple at all, let alone a game-changer.

On top of this, Patrick looks like he's much more experienced with and okay with actually ending someone's life given he's a serial killer, plus it's said that he's physically active as well. I can't really see apple winning
 
Rayfire said:
On top of this, Patrick looks like he's much more experienced with and okay with actually ending someone's life given he's a serial killer, plus it's said that he's physically active as well. I can't really see apple winning
Click to expand...
Not really a factor, since both parties are bloodlusted. Basically neither would have any morals or hesitation during this battle
 
I don't know what's more scary and sad - me, who arranged more than 20 matches for Kaneki, or AppleMaker, who arranged more than 20 matches with himself 😳
 
Voting Apple. If he has his M1 Garand then thats going though Mr. Bateman's chest pretty handily. And it has way more penetration and stopping powere if this somehow turns into a firefight.

Outside of that, I feel like Apple has a solid chance through pain tolerance aswell as simply being comparable in physical stats.

Apple FRA
 
Gonna vote for myself due to higher durability and better speed (since Patrick lacks combat speed feats from what I know, he's defaulting to average human's combat speed - which is 6.7054 m/s). Pain tolerance IS a factor, especially when neither of us have good combat feats and our stats aren't very far apart. His experience in murdering people is also somewhat irrelevant, since 1. both are bloodlusted, so neither would hesitate, 2. he mostly done that with weapons and killed featless characters, using his stealth mastery. Not to mention that stamina (how long person can stay active) won't be much of a factor either, since this fight most likely won't take too long
 
Monstermadman said:
Voting Apple. If he has his M1 Garand then thats going though Mr. Bateman's chest pretty handily. And it has way more penetration and stopping powere if this somehow turns into a firefight.

Outside of that, I feel like Apple has a solid chance through pain tolerance aswell as simply being comparable in physical stats.

Apple FRA
Click to expand...
It's pure cqc. Nobody have weapons here
 
Rayfire said:
Even if we take Apples speed at face value, being able to run that quick for a brief period of time has absolutely nothing to do with fighting. It's like saying Usain Bolt in his prime would automatically be great at MMA solely because he's the fastest man alive on foot.

Also, neither the rage amplifications or pain tolerance are much of a factor tbh. Getting angry and experiencing an adrenaline rush is something that literally everyone involuntarily activates in a physical confrontation or a dangerous situation, and I find it unreasonable to assume that Patrick wouldn't have the same thing happen to him. It's not really an advantage for Apple at all, let alone a game-changer.
Click to expand...
I think these are being ignored. The first point is especially important imo

If it isn't obvious already, I'm going with Patrick here. Whether he uses weapons or not, it's still combat experience that can translate in some way, and that is something I don't see much of on Apple's page other than extremely ambiguous descriptions of being in school fights, which I doubt gives him a clear-cut advantage especially without formal training, which is also acknowledged on his page.

The description is vague but Patrick also seems to train much more, alongside having more applicable and more numerous feats to back it up like breaking bones with purely physicals and having seemingly no issue doing the same things Apple is said to be able to do, like lifting a person. Granted there's no linked scans on his page to see the actual context of these, but looking at both pages I find Patrick a lot more impressive.
 
Think I'll vote Apple. The only things Patrick has that really give him an advantage here are social influencing (which Apple resists) and stealth mastery (which Apple could negate with enhanced senses). Preparation isn't a factor here because of SBA, and neither is Patrick's weapon mastery, vehicular mastery, or status effect inducement since neither combatant has their equipment, which would mean that most of his combat experience is null too. Apple on the other hand is more durable and has rather significant pain tolerance (apparently endured pain from surgeries), which would allow him to outlast Patrick. Seems pretty clear cut to me.
 
Rayfire said:
If it isn't obvious already, I'm going with Patrick here. Whether he uses weapons or not, it's still combat experience that can translate in some way, and that is something I don't see much of on Apple's page other than extremely ambiguous descriptions of being in school fights, which I doubt gives him a clear-cut advantage especially without formal training, which is also acknowledged on his page.
Click to expand...
Apparently Apple has HEMA experience, although whether that's just with weapons or with cqc as well isn't stated.

Where on Patrick's profile does it say that he has formal training? I don't see anything.
Rayfire said:
The description is vague but Patrick also seems to train much more, alongside having more applicable and more numerous feats to back it up like breaking bones with purely physicals and having seemingly no issue doing the same things Apple is said to be able to do, like lifting a person. Granted there's no linked scans on his page to see the actual context of these, but looking at both pages I find Patrick a lot more impressive.
Click to expand...
Training more doesn't necessarily mean you're stronger. Sometimes it can actually mean the opposite, since doing extreme training every day tears muscles before they have a chance to grow back stronger (And considering how obsessive Patrick can be with things, it's not unreasonable that he'd do this without realizing it).

Also I don't think he ever actually did break bones. All the scenes I saw where he killed people were with stabbing, gunshots, an axe, and I'd have to assume strangulation. If anyone does find a scene where he does that then let me know, but for now I'm keeping my vote.
 
Jin2188 said:
Apparently Apple has HEMA experience, although whether that's just with weapons or with cqc as well isn't stated.

Where on Patrick's profile does it say that he has formal training? I don't see anything.
Click to expand...
I said something like that would be needed to meaningfully grant him a clearer edge, not that Patrick had that.

There's also a big difference between training and real-world experiences. Both are important, but usually the former has rules and safety standards unlike an actual life-or-death scenario. If Patricks been killing for a significant time at all then Apple is simply not winning on skill alone.
Jin2188 said:
Training more doesn't necessarily mean you're stronger. Sometimes it can actually mean the opposite, since doing extreme training every day tears muscles before they have a chance to grow back stronger (And considering how obsessive Patrick can be with things, it's not unreasonable that he'd do this without realizing it).

Also I don't think he ever actually did break bones. All the scenes I saw where he killed people were with stabbing, gunshots, an axe, and I'd have to assume strangulation. If anyone does find a scene where he does that then let me know, but for now I'm keeping my vote.
Click to expand...
True, but only if he just suddenly decided to do that on a whim. Otherwise people's bodies adapt to things like that overtime more and more unless you just don't eat or rest. That's what progressive overload is for. Also, I don't think he even has any visible negative symptoms related to this anyway, otherwise that'd be a pretty obvious thing to put in his weaknesses section.

Well if he didn't at all then why put in his page to start with? But even then, Patrick still very clearly has more impressive feats in terms of rating and description in my view.
 
Rayfire said:
I said something like that would be needed to meaningfully grant him a clearer edge, not that Patrick had that.

There's also a big difference between training and real-world experiences. Both are important, but usually the former has rules and safety standards unlike an actual life-or-death scenario. If Patricks been killing for a significant time at all then Apple is simply not winning on skill alone.
Click to expand...
True, but Apple has other advantages that could balance it out.
Rayfire said:
True, but only if he just suddenly decided to do that on a whim. Otherwise people's bodies adapt to things like that overtime more and more unless you just don't eat or rest. That's what progressive overload is for. Also, I don't think he even has any visible negative symptoms related to this anyway, otherwise that'd be a pretty obvious thing to put in his weaknesses section.
Click to expand...
Progressive overload is about making sure your body is already strong enough to handle more extreme training (less muscle tears). If you just dive into extreme exercises without building strength/endurance first, it won't help you, since you're tearing your muscles too much to heal back fully before you tear them again. Your body doesn't "adapt" to that, you just don't get anywhere.

But this isn't really the point. All I was trying to say was that Patrick training more isn't really good evidence for him being stronger than Apple.
 
Jin2188 said:
Progressive overload is about making sure your body is already strong enough to handle more extreme training (less muscle tears). If you just dive into extreme exercises without building strength/endurance first, it won't help you, since you're tearing your muscles too much to heal back fully before you tear them again. Your body doesn't "adapt" to that, you just don't get anywhere.

But this isn't really the point. All I was trying to say was that Patrick training more isn't really good evidence for him being stronger than Apple.
Click to expand...
That is literally what I'm talking about though, I said before that's what would happen if he just went straight into something like that, but clearly he hasn't done so for the above reasons.

His vague training regiment isn't even the only evidence that he'd be physically stronger either, If it comes down to a grappling situation, I have zero doubt Patrick wins in that scenario. From the way it's worded at least, it sounds like he does a very similar feat that apple is said to do in his lifting strength section casually which helps him as well.
 
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