Dragon Ball Super Anime Special Edition

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Between episodes 75 and 76 Goku and Kuririn's training takes place, both go to an island in search of a grass in order for Master Roshi to live longer, they find Grandma Uranai on the same island, and she sends Goku and Kuririn to a kind of demon's mouth, where she created illusions based on Kuririn's fears and mind, as you can see, the images are self-explanatory

In episode 76, Goku himself confirms that all those enemies are illusions, and these illusions have taken the form of previously defeated enemies. It even shows a tree transforming into other characters, and even gases becoming illusions. and rocks becoming illusions

Grandma Uranai herself mentions that this space between this world and another world materializes the memories from the depths of the characters' hearts.



Kuririn and Goku are shown interacting, and they were also destroying those memories and illusions they had created, after realizing that it was all an illusion, Goku dispels the illusion with his own mind, causing all illusions and memories to disappear.



It should be noted that these illusions become stronger as characters like Goku and Kuririn become afraid, illusions are also capable of regenerating themselves through fear, moreover, when Kuririn also begins to meditate and control his own mind, and dispels these illusions, with ki-based punches, It is shown that even this illusion is affected and feels the attack from Kuririn

Kuririn also mentions that it was mental training, and Goku himself says that after relaxing, he was able to dispel illusions

Furthermore, it should be noted that the website itself mentions that these are illusions



Detailed note by SwordLegendz01

Goku has demonstrated on numerous occasions an above-average ability to spot tricks and deceptions in battle. A classic example comes from the original Dragon Ball, when he quickly recognizes the “illusion” created by Tien Shinhan’s split technique, realizing that, although they appeared to be multiple real bodies, it was merely a strategy that divided and weakened the original power.This ability becomes even more evident in Dragon Ball Super. During his fight against Hit, Goku manages to identify that his movements involved something beyond mere speed, perceiving distortions and “illusions” even when each one seemed to possess its own Ki signature. This shows that he does not rely solely on vision, but also on a refined reading of energy. Furthermore, in the Moro arc, Goku also demonstrates this same perception by not being easily deceived by illusory techniques and manipulations, reinforcing that his experience and sensitivity to Ki have evolved to the point of distinguishing what is real from what is merely a projection or deception.

Basically, that's what I'm proposing for the DB characters

Resistance to Illusion and Non-Physical Interaction Based on illusion and memories.

Agree:UnoRebaixadO, ProudLearner, SwordLegendz01, Mgebrat282, Saqphire, CelestialVortex01, LegendariumOfLies, Lort15, Vietthai96 and Reiner04 agree that resistance is limited, Hiryu-Z

Disagree: Random-Helper323 (disagrees about NPI ), MrTayman616, DarkDragonMedeus (disagrees about NPI ), Vietthai96 and Reiner04 NPI, LephyrTheRevanchist, ItsMeat

Neutral: Random-Helper323( is neutral about resistance to illusion ) DarkDragonMedeus ( is neutral about resistance to illusion )

 

[MrTayman616]

The speciality of the forest seems to be materializing their memories of those characters, so i think the point is that they're actually touchable, not that it's some special NPI or Resistance. Goku thought they were illusions and punched to prove it, which the so called "illusion" actually blocked.

It just seems to be the ability of the forest rather than every DB character being able to interact with illusions.

The site doesn't call them illusions either, it says "Goku insists that this is an illusion and attacks, but his punch is blocked and he is counterattacked instead" which seems to align with what i say. Same for it being mental training, as that's just the source of what the forest materializes.

Sure, i didn't watch this episode so i might be wrong here :d, but based on everything here, i currently disagree with the thread.

Longevity seems fine.

 

[Tuxidoe_Redo]

Is this because of the Vegeta vs Aizen match? I'm interested

 

[SwordLegendz01]

Master Kame's scan regarding his longevity

About Longevity it is already stated on the profile I don't know if it will also apply to the manga profile

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Master_Roshi_(DBS_Anime)

 

[UnoRebaixadO]

That seems okay, I agree for now.

 

[Eseseso]

Will wait to hear more thoughts on the illusion stuff, but the longevity stuff is fine.

 

[SwordLegendz01]

I'm not sure if all DB characters will have resistance here, since Krillin was already terrified by it, but Goku insisted it was an illusion.

Kuririn also mentions that it was mental training, and Goku himself says that after relaxing, he was able to dispel illusions

Maybe you hightlighted this part?

I'll bring up Goku's previous feat of instantly recognizing an "llusion" when Tien split his body into four in the original DB, but assuming it's a resistance to illusions seems vague. But wait a minute, in the DBS Anime, Goku can identify that Hit is using illusions, even by giving each illusion a Ki signature. And also, in this thread for the next episode, where Goku immediately recognizes that it's an illusion. Should this be enough to give Goku "Resistance to Illusion Creation"? At least Goku could say, "Yeah, I've seen that trick before."

But for NPI, it does appear that the Forest of Terror creates illusions through someone's memories, and all materials from rocks, trees, and even gas are transformed into illusions of enemies Goku and Krillin have defeated.

For Longevity, that's already listed in his profile.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The speciality of the forest seems to be materializing their memories of those characters, so i think the point is that they're actually touchable, not that it's some special NPI or Resistance. Goku thought they were illusions and punched to prove it, which the so called "illusion" actually blocked.

It just seems to be the ability of the forest rather than every DB character being able to interact with illusions.

The site doesn't call them illusions either, it says "Goku insists that this is an illusion and attacks, but his punch is blocked and he is counterattacked instead" which seems to align with what i say. Same for it being mental training, as that's just the source of what the forest materializes.

Sure, i didn't watch this episode so i might be wrong here :d, but based on everything here, i currently disagree with the thread.

Longevity seems fine.

The forest does not create independent physical beings as if it were simply generating real matter out of nothing. What it does is materialize memories and fears that already exist within the mind. Grandma Uranai herself explains that this place lies between the physical world and the other world, and that it gives form to what lies deep within the heart.



This means that the origin of those enemies' existence is mental. They do not exist on their own. They begin to exist because Kuririn’s fear and memories are being externalized.



The fact that Goku punches them and gets blocked does not prove that they are not illusions. On the contrary, it only shows that they are materialized illusions. The episode makes it clear that they have functional presence as long as the minds of those involved sustain them.





Additionally, the illusions are shown changing form.



When Kuririn meditates and stabilizes his mind, he begins to dissipate these figures through his own mental control and ki. The moment Goku relaxes and understands that this is nothing more than a manifestation of fear, everything disappears without him needing to physically destroy each enemy.

Ki is also treated here as the very soul of living beings. As the characters use ki, they grow stronger, and we know that characters with ki can interact with abstract and even intangible beings. Furthermore, the more fear and ki involved, the stronger these illusions can become.

https://imgur.com/a/GdSi2Fm

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I'm not sure if all DB characters will have resistance here, since Krillin was already terrified by it, but Goku insisted it was an illusion.

Maybe you hightlighted this part?

I'll bring up Goku's previous feat of instantly recognizing an "llusion" when Tien split his body into four in the original DB, but assuming it's a resistance to illusions seems vague. But wait a minute, in the DBS anime, Goku can identify that Hit is using illusions, even by giving each illusion a Ki signature. And also, in this thread for the next episode, where Goku immediately recognizes that it's an illusion. Should this be enough to give Goku "Resistance to Illusion Creation"? At least Goku could say, "Yeah, I've seen that trick before."

But for NPI, I don't know, but it does appear that the Forest of Terror creates illusions through someone's memories, and all materials from rocks, trees, and even gas, are transformed into illusions of enemies Goku and Krillin have defeated.

Thank you for complementing my things.

For Longevity, that's already listed in his profile.

I removed it then, I had seen that it wasn't in the profile and decided to implement it, but everything is fine.

 

[ProudLearner]

I agree

 

[SwordLegendz01]

I removed it then, I had seen that it wasn't in the profile and decided

This is on the DBS Anime profile because the previous profile is outdated, so we made a separate profile for the Manga and DBS Anime because in the manga there is no mention of the Paradise Herb if I remember correctly, but Master Roshi got his longevity through other things mentioned in the OG manga and anime (Immortal Phoenix & Fountain of Youth) whether there is a lie in one of them or not but what is certain is that the sources are different

 

[Random-Helper323]

I don't know about NPI, since the illusions appear to be meant to be touchable given it's all in their own minds, but limited resistance to illusions might be okay. It's really more like meditation and willpower, controlling their fear. So I'm not sure. I'll have to be neutral on illusion resistance for now, disagree on NPI.

 

[SwordLegendz01]

I don't know about NPI, since the illusions appear to be meant to be touchable given it's all in their own minds, but limited resistance to illusions might be okay. It's really more like meditation and willpower, controlling their fear. So I'm not sure. I'll have to be neutral on illusion resistance for now, disagree on NPI.

I’m not entirely sure how we treat Resistance to Illusion on the wiki—whether the source should be removed or if it’s enough that a character can tell the difference between an illusion and a non-illusion. I mean, in the DBS manga Goku recognized Moro’s real body when he used illusions, and we accept that he has “resistance to illusion.” He even says, "Yeah, I've seen that trick before."

But I won’t discuss the manga here—just mentioning it as a reference. As I said previously, since OG DB Goku has been able to tell what is not an illusion and what is an illusion due to feat limitations, so it was treated as mere Information Analysis. However, in later arcs he can recognize it more clearly, which further supports that Goku should have "Full Resistance to Illusion Creation" at least in DBS (he recognizes and is not misled even by Hit’s illusions that carry all the Ki signatures of each illusion, and in this thread he immediately identifies it as an illusion and even insists on telling Krillin that it is an illusion).

I'll bring up Goku's previous feat of instantly recognizing an "llusion" when Tien split his body into four in the original DB, but assuming it's a resistance to illusions seems vague. But wait a minute, in the DBS Anime, Goku can identify that Hit is using illusions, even by giving each illusion a Ki signature. And also, in this thread for the next episode, where Goku immediately recognizes that it's an illusion. Should this be enough to give Goku "Resistance to Illusion Creation"? At least Goku could say, "Yeah, I've seen that trick before."

And with this, Krillin or the other Z-Fighters should not have resistance to illusion besides Goku. From OG DB up to this episode, they have not been shown recognizing illusions the way Goku does. Therefore, it should not be considered limited resistance, because dispelling illusions is a form of training in controlling his Ki.

As for NPI, I’m also not certain, but the Forest of Terror works by reading their thoughts and fears, which then form the illusion—that’s why Goku can immediately recognize it as an illusion. On the other hand, the Forest of Terror does not only create illusions from nothing; it also manifests objects such as rocks, tree trunks, and even gas, which should not lose their characteristics as objects even if they are illusions. Like Destron Gas and Buu’s Memories, they can still be touched or defeated even though they are immaterial.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I'm unsure about resistance to illusions from this. Certainly a skill and mental fortitude feat, especially for Krillin who suffers more from the illusions of past enemies because several of those enemies killed him.

 

[UnoRebaixadO]

I don't know why it would be considered "limited," it seems to be a very classic example of mental resilience.

 

[SwordLegendz01]

I'm unsure about resistance to illusions from this. Certainly a skill and mental fortitude feat, especially for Krillin who suffers more from the illusions of past enemies because several of those enemies killed him.

Mental training is another thing where he makes his Ki not leak so that their memories can no longer be read by the forest which manifests them as illusions, for the resistance is not for Krillin or anyone except Goku with him 3 times immediately recognize illusions and never mislead by them.

• Goku quickly identifies Tien's technique that is not an illusion even though the Z-fighters mention "illusions and shadow attacks"
• Goku is not mislead by Hit's illusions even though he can feel Hit who gives Ki signatures to each of his illusions.
• In this thread, Goku before they dispel the illusions with "mental training", Goku immediately mentions and insists that it is an illusion to Krillin.

 

[Mgebrat282]

I agree

 

[ProudLearner]

Bump

 

[VinnyXD]

Shouldn't it also be a resistance to Fear and Memory manipulation since the forest couldn't feed on them anymore

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Shouldn't it also be a resistance to Fear and Memory manipulation since the forest couldn't feed on them anymore

It seems like you've given a good idea. If everyone agrees, I'll add it to the OP.

 

[SwordLegendz01]

Shouldn't it also be a resistance to Fear and Memory manipulation since the forest couldn't feed on them anymore

I'm pretty sure the previous thread rejected it because overcoming one's own fear isn't Resistance to Fear Manipulation, and for Memory Manipulation, the forest doesn't manipulate the target's memories like mind reading/telepathy. Then Goku and Krillin do something to dispel the illusion, such as preventing the forest from reading their memories and fears again.

At least the point for Resistance to Illusion is something here, with two pieces of evidence in the previous episode that I've already provided and one piece of evidence in this episode specifically for Goku who immediately recognized and insisted on telling Krillin that it was an illusion amidst his fear.

Since Goku was able to identify how and whether it was an illusion or not from the start, it should support giving Goku Resistance to Illusion. Based on Goku's statement that it was an illusion that should have characteristics different from physical objects, meaning the Forest of Terror creates illusions based on the memories and fears of its target by creating illusions from nothingness to objects there such as smokes, rocks, trees, and even gas (the characteristics should not change, especially gas).

 

[VinnyXD]

I'm pretty sure the previous thread rejected it because overcoming one's own fear isn't Resistance to Fear Manipulation, and for Memory Manipulation, the forest doesn't manipulate the target's memories like mind reading/telepathy. Then Goku and Krillin do something to dispel the illusion, such as preventing the forest from reading their memories and fears again.

It doesn't manipulate it in the since like a yellow lantern or something, but the forest does read and grow from a character fear and memories. After Goku clears he's mind the illusion go away, no longer being able to read them.

Basically this doesn't stop a character from inducing fear into Goku or Krillin, but it would prevent a character from reading their fears or memories.Like Telepathy is just reading a character mind ,Idk what else this would fall under.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Bump

 

[Saqphire]

Agreed, let's stomp Aizen and Itachi with base Krillin next yall

 

[SwordLegendz01]

Mental training is another thing where he makes his Ki not leak so that their memories can no longer be read by the forest which manifests them as illusions, for the resistance is not for Krillin or anyone except Goku with him 3 times immediately recognize illusions and never mislead by them.

• Goku quickly identifies Tien's technique that is not an illusion even though the Z-fighters mention "illusions and shadow attacks"
• Goku is not mislead by Hit's illusions even though he can feel Hit who gives Ki signatures to each of his illusions.
• In this thread, Goku before they dispel the illusions with "mental training", Goku immediately mentions and insists that it is an illusion to Krillin.

At least the point for Resistance to Illusion is something here, with two pieces of evidence in the previous episode that I've already provided and one piece of evidence in this episode specifically for Goku who immediately recognized and insisted on telling Krillin that it was an illusion amidst his fear.

Since Goku was able to identify how and whether it was an illusion or not from the start, it should support giving Goku Resistance to Illusion. Based on Goku's statement that it was an illusion that should have characteristics different from physical objects, meaning the Forest of Terror creates illusions based on the memories and fears of its target by creating illusions from nothingness to objects there such as smokes, rocks, trees, and even gas (the characteristics should not change, especially gas).

Based on my latest votes here, I agree with Resistance to Illusion Creation for Goku and NPI for DB characters.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Based on my latest votes here, I agree with Resistance to Illusion Creation for Goku and NPI for DB characters.

Corrected

 

[CelestialVortex01]

I haven't read all the op and was about to say that they should also get NPI for memories lmfao
Anyway looks good to me

 

[SwordLegendz01]

I haven't read all the op and was about to say that they should also get NPI for memories lmfao
Anyway looks good to me

Honestly I'm also a bit skeptical about the NPI for "memories", although I gave my final reason why they should also be immaterial here, but "illusions" are a thing here with Goku as evidence who has a lot of experience dealing with illusions who should know the characteristics of how illusions differ from real objects

Based on my latest votes here, I agree with Resistance to Illusion Creation for Goku and NPI for DB characters.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

We need agreement from the administrators and moderators. I have already posted this on several profiles, but only one has responded so far. Anyone who wants to help me with this would be appreciated.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I don't know about NPI, since the illusions appear to be meant to be touchable given it's all in their own minds, but limited resistance to illusions might be okay. It's really more like meditation and willpower, controlling their fear. So I'm not sure. I'll have to be neutral on illusion resistance for now, disagree on NPI.

Agreed

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Agreed, let's stomp Aizen and Itachi with base Krillin next yall

Because of this, I wholeheartedly agree

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Bump, we still need votes from the staff.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Bump

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I'm unsure about resistance to illusions from this. Certainly a skill and mental fortitude feat, especially for Krillin who suffers more from the illusions of past enemies because several of those enemies killed him.

Agreed

Could you call in some other staff here to help us finish this quickly?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Bump

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I don't know about NPI, since the illusions appear to be meant to be touchable given it's all in their own minds, but limited resistance to illusions might be okay. It's really more like meditation and willpower, controlling their fear. So I'm not sure. I'll have to be neutral on illusion resistance for now, disagree on NPI.

Agreed

I will give my opinion on this topic, and I agree with it regarding resistance to illusions, but as for non-physical interaction, I am not sure. However, in the manga, Goku possesses Hakai and can erase non-physical entities. For now, I will talk about the reason and necessity of adding resistance to illusions to Goku’s profile.

First, Goku was not affected by Moro’s illusion as mentioned by LuffyRuffy46307, and honestly that alone is sufficient evidence, but I will present the second and necessary reason why resistance to illusion manipulation should be added now ↓

Goku in Ultra Instinct frees himself from all thoughts and the mind entirely. In this state, Goku does not think about anything else, and the only goal is victory, as Whis stated. This means that any attempt to manipulate him with illusions will fail because in Ultra Instinct he instinctively avoids any danger or attack. In this state, the mind no longer controls Goku’s movements, and attempting to distract him through illusions will not succeed because his mind becomes empty, and only one thing remains: defeating his opponent, as Whis said. As we also saw, in Ultra Instinct he does not need all five senses to react and attack. Goku completely closed his eyes and still fought Jiren fiercely while his eyes were shut. This is further proof supporting what I said, because in Ultra Instinct the mind and the five senses are no longer useful, as he responds to any attack instinctively. In this state his mind is empty and his five senses are irrelevant to the point that he can fight with his eyes closed even against Jiren. This means that even if someone tries to manipulate him with illusions, it would not work because he moves instinctively in this mode against any attack or danger. Secondly, his mind plays no role in his actions, and on top of that his mind is empty with nothing in it except victory, as Whis said. Thirdly, since his movements are automatic against any attack or threat, his five senses are not necessary at all, to the extent that he fought Jiren with his eyes closed. Illusions require the target’s eyes to control them, and since Goku does not need his five senses in Ultra Instinct, illusions become fundamentally invalid. They become invalid especially when the opponent does not even use his eyes and does not need them to fight, and illusions affect what the eyes see. Since you do not even need to use your eyes, illusions will not affect you. As I said, Goku fundamentally moves automatically and instinctively, and the mind, the five senses, and even conscious will have no role in Ultra Instinct. Therefore, attempting to trap him in an illusion is doomed to fail from the start. It would be like trying to place a wall under an illusion, because a wall has no senses to be affected. Likewise, in Goku’s case in Ultra Instinct, the mind, voluntary movements controlled by the mind, and the five senses are absent, making him like that wall. Attempting to place him under an illusion is a failed attempt from the beginning because he lacks the things that would allow him to be affected by illusions.

I am done, and I agree with adding resistance to illusion manipulation, and all the Angels and the Grand Priest should possess this trait. Honestly, I do not know how this has not already been applied, as it seems clear.

As for non-physical interaction, I think it is logical in the manga because Goku uses Hakai, and Hakai can affect and destroy non-physical ghosts, as Beerus did, and as Toppo affected the World of Void through Hakai. So I think it may also be logical through Hakai. However, Vegeta would be even more logical because he possesses Ultra Ego, as he can surround himself with an aura of destruction and erase anything that collides with it, which would grant him resistance to non-physical interaction, since anything that tries to touch him would be erased into nothingness unless it is strong enough.

 

[SwordLegendz01]

I will give my opinion on this topic, and I agree with it regarding resistance to illusions, but as for non-physical interaction, I am not sure. However, in the manga, Goku possesses Hakai and can erase non-physical entities. For now, I will talk about the reason and necessity of adding resistance to illusions to Goku’s profile.

First, Goku was not affected by Moro’s illusion as mentioned by LuffyRuffy46307, and honestly that alone is sufficient evidence, but I will present the second and necessary reason why resistance to illusion manipulation should be added now ↓

Goku in Ultra Instinct frees himself from all thoughts and the mind entirely. In this state, Goku does not think about anything else, and the only goal is victory, as Whis stated. This means that any attempt to manipulate him with illusions will fail because in Ultra Instinct he instinctively avoids any danger or attack. In this state, the mind no longer controls Goku’s movements, and attempting to distract him through illusions will not succeed because his mind becomes empty, and only one thing remains: defeating his opponent, as Whis said. As we also saw, in Ultra Instinct he does not need all five senses to react and attack. Goku completely closed his eyes and still fought Jiren fiercely while his eyes were shut. This is further proof supporting what I said, because in Ultra Instinct the mind and the five senses are no longer useful, as he responds to any attack instinctively. In this state his mind is empty and his five senses are irrelevant to the point that he can fight with his eyes closed even against Jiren. This means that even if someone tries to manipulate him with illusions, it would not work because he moves instinctively in this mode against any attack or danger. Secondly, his mind plays no role in his actions, and on top of that his mind is empty with nothing in it except victory, as Whis said. Thirdly, since his movements are automatic against any attack or threat, his five senses are not necessary at all, to the extent that he fought Jiren with his eyes closed. Illusions require the target’s eyes to control them, and since Goku does not need his five senses in Ultra Instinct, illusions become fundamentally invalid. They become invalid especially when the opponent does not even use his eyes and does not need them to fight, and illusions affect what the eyes see. Since you do not even need to use your eyes, illusions will not affect you. As I said, Goku fundamentally moves automatically and instinctively, and the mind, the five senses, and even conscious will have no role in Ultra Instinct. Therefore, attempting to trap him in an illusion is doomed to fail from the start. It would be like trying to place a wall under an illusion, because a wall has no senses to be affected. Likewise, in Goku’s case in Ultra Instinct, the mind, voluntary movements controlled by the mind, and the five senses are absent, making him like that wall. Attempting to place him under an illusion is a failed attempt from the beginning because he lacks the things that would allow him to be affected by illusions.

I am done, and I agree with adding resistance to illusion manipulation, and all the Angels and the Grand Priest should possess this trait. Honestly, I do not know how this has not already been applied, as it seems clear.

As for non-physical interaction, I think it is logical in the manga because Goku uses Hakai, and Hakai can affect and destroy non-physical ghosts, as Beerus did, and as Toppo affected the World of Void through Hakai. So I think it may also be logical through Hakai. However, Vegeta would be even more logical because he possesses Ultra Ego, as he can surround himself with an aura of destruction and erase anything that collides with it, which would grant him resistance to non-physical interaction, since anything that tries to touch him would be erased into nothingness unless it is strong enough.

Honestly, I don't want to argue unnecessary points. You've presented comparisons between the manga and anime as evidence, though I did as well, but that's enough. Goku facing Moro's illusion is just an example of what happens in the manga, and an example that should also be given to the anime.

Based on my latest votes here, I agree with Resistance to Illusion Creation for Goku and NPI for DB characters.

And as for Ultra Instinct, Goku hasn't reached that level yet. So, at the very least, whatever it is, it should be based on existing examples or feats, not future ones. This would affect Goku in his base form, as his feats recognize illusions even when other characters can't, like saying "shadow attack," or being scared to death by seeing them.

As for other things like scaling, you should have looked at the DBS Manga profile first, and that's already there. idk about NPI.

 

[Lort15]

This looks fine, i agree

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Bump, where is the staff?

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I agree with this topic, especially with regard to resisting illusion manipulation. I think this will be good (I will add evidence if this matter is approved in the texts) ↓

Resistance:

Manipulating the illusion (he resisted Moro's illusion and was unable to influence it, and he resisted the illusions that appeared on the island and realized them, and he is free of the mind and all voluntary movement and moves instinctively against any danger or attack without relying on the mind or the five senses, as he was able to fight against Jiren with his eyes closed, and Whis mentioned that Goku in this state does not think about anything other than defeating his opponent)