The Rematch between Strongest Sorcerer of the Heian Era vs. The Horseman of Conquest (Sukuna vs. Makima Rematch) (17-16-4) (Incon Grace)

[Anonymous_Learner]

With Makima's Super Reactions getting removed, Gojo's Earthquake feat having been downgraded, Sukuna getting faster combat speed, and then Sukuna even getting Rela Reactions, i figured this matchup could do with a rematch with their current states. Plus, with the CSM Movie now digital, there's no better time to another csm matchup to pop off.
And, who knows? Perhaps someday Bakugo vs. Reze can be a matchup. For now, we'll have to settle for this

Sequel to this GLORIOUS 45 Page matchup (45 Pages in insane[I was planning on making a Gojo vs Makima Rematch but Sukuna'll be more fun])

Ryomen Sukuna Vs Makima...again

Fight takes place in Shinjuku
Starting Distance is 5 Meters
Speed is equalized
Makima has her swords
Makima has High-Mid Resurrection
Possible Soul Manipulation Sukuna Granted
Sukuna is not considered a Japanese Citizen of Makima's Japan
Makima has prior knowledge of the status of Ryomen Sukuna being the strongest sorcerer in history, is the King of Curses, and the fact that special grades can topple nations
Makima's Possible Death Manipulation through the Angel Devil (For some reason this is a possibly on Makima's page while Angel gets it straight up despite makima using his abilities and having him as her literal puppet but I digress. Since it's a "possibly," I feel have to do this), Possible Regeneration (High-Mid) & Immortality Negation (Enhanced Type 4) through Angel Devil's 1000 Year Usage Spear, and Possible Contracts (Including Possible Incoreporality through the ghost devil) Granted

Full Power Sukuna will be used
Attack Potency: 550 Kilotons physically, higher with Shrine, even higher with Malevolent Shrine, Up to 20.153 Megatons with Divine Flame; Higher with Domain Expansion
Durablity: 550 Kilotons, Higher with Domain Expansion
Lifting Strength: >940,082.15 Tons, Higher with Domain Expansion
IQ: Genius

Makima
Attack Potency: >550 Tons of TNT physically, 5.5 Kilotons of TNT with 1,000 Years, Upscales 128.18 Kilotons of TNT with Telekinesis
Durability: >550 Tons of TNT, Her contract makes her difficult to kill
Lifting Strength: >2,810.80 Tons
IQ: A Least Genius generally, At least Gifted Combatant

The Honored One: @Buraqibear, @Doggo, @ShionAH, @Sakamaki_Fuji, @Delusionaltx2, @Hossein28e7, @Supersonicmaker, @AthelChan, @Robo432343, @Zyurtunder13, @Keshirou, @Mommyleona, @Catpija, @Anonymous_Learner, @DemonKing021, @Naito-desu, @Emirp sumitpo,
The Control Devil: @Zabazab, @NikHelton, @Lynieryz, @CastoriceTheFifth @DarthSorox, @GodEarh206, @Ruby_R_Dracula, @Pearly0nsams, @DragonZeroNova, @Hecky2222, @Saqphire, @Lloydblitzed, @Machmatej, @Epiccheev, @ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn, @Arkenis
Goku Solos Both(Incon): @DaReaperMan, @Thunderman101, @Jaynic1, @Razor

Facts;
Sukuna has a >1000x A.P./Dura advantage over Makima's physicals an a 4.29x A.P./Dura advantage over Makima's bang, has 15,586.2825789x reaction advantage over Makima's combat speed with 24.68x reaction advantage over Makima's attack speed with Bang, has 148,654x higher Attack Speed with World Cutting Slash, has a 334.45x LS advantage, Body control, has Instinctual Action (Which allows him to Summon Mahoraga and retreat into the shadows even while knocked out) Passive Fear Inducement that makes curses (the embodiment of humanity's fears with their own fear inducement) and sorcerers (people who resist curse fear inducement in most cases) wonder if it's fine to breath in his presence, Type 2 Immo, can spiritually posses Makima if he shoves a finger down her throat if he's feeling funny, Regens with RCT (allowing him to recover limbs, his heal heart, and heal parts of his brain. Equal to Gojo's RCT, who could regen through Malevolent Shrine) with insanely quick speed, can heal all previous damage to his body by transforming back into his original form (This gives Sukuna two extra arms and a stomach mouth, which can help him chant and do hands-signs mid-battle), has Shrine Dismantles that are faster than himself and are invisible to a layered degree, AoE Danmaku Spam, tens of meters with dismantles, can directly attack Makima's soul with his dismantles, Forcefield Creation via Enhanced Energy Projection with Shrine, Pseudo-Flight via Explosion Manipulation as shown here, 200 Meter Radius with MS, MS Slashes hit on target as long as the person is in range, and Divine Flame INCINERATES Makima (Though, he needs his "ingredients" to heat up before then).
Basic Sorcerers can Resist Mind Manipulation (shown here) while it was noted to be amped (shown here) with Sukuna being one of the most experienced sorcerers/the strongest sorcerer in history. He also has Heat Resistance and Limited Mind Manipulation, Perception Manipulation & Paralysis Inducement Resistance
Can do a lot with Cursed Energy (Just read the Cursed Energy page atp)
With the Tens Shadows technique, Sukuna can control shadows to either hide in his opponents shadow in order to perform a sneak attack, hide in the shadows himself in order to avoid attacks/heal, drag other people into the shadows in order to stun and immobilize their movements, or, most importantly of all, summon Shadow Based Shikigami to aid him in his battle with him being able to half summon them as well. All of his shikigami are Invisibility, Incorporeality, and Invulnerability. He has Flight, Paralysis Inducement & Electricity Manipulation with Nue, Duplication with Rabbit Escape, Water Manipulation with Max Elephant and "Piercing Blood", Adaptation, Reactive Evolution, and Additional Invulnerability (once he has adapted to a phenomena enough, he'll become completely immune to that phenomena with Mahoraga (with Sukuna being able to adapt for mahoraga), and can merge some of his Shikigami to create Agito. Mahoraga and Agito are capable of fighting alongside him, though Agito is no where near as strong as Maho or Sukuna
Makima has High-Mid law-based resurrection that grants her At least 126.1 million lives on top of her own, has an attack 56.5x faster than herself, Telekenisis, Death Ritual that crushes people to death (Though it requires a location of high altitude, sacrifices, and those said sacrifices stating the name of the person she wants to crush), Precog with the Future Devil, Life Absorption+Weapon Creation, Non-Physical Interaction, Death Manipulation+Regeneration (High-Mid) & Immortality Negation (Enhanced Type 4) with Angel, Can BFR Sukuna to hell, Halloween, has teleportation, and has a whole lot of fodder to toss at Sukuna
Makima's Bio-Manipulation was talked as a wincon previously though i'm not so sure now with cursed energy having this (Limited Biological Manipulation & Power Nullification (The inside of the body is like a Domain which makes manifesting things inside of it impossible) and Gojo, who Sukuna has comparable RCT to, regenerating from this so I'll let y'all talk it out
IF i missed something you feel might be important in the facts section, Be sure to bring it up in the discussion (Which is likely since i'm tired and want to push this match out since I promised i'd do it today). With that being said, have fun on the matchup

Battle Ost:

 

[Buraqibear]

Sukuna wins. Makima can't do anything about his Rela reactions + FTL WCS, he'd just erase her with it, I vote Sukuna

 

[LaserPrecision]

Sukuna wins. Makima can't do anything about his Rela reactions + FTL WCS, he'd just erase her with it, I vote Sukuna

He ain't opening with that tho tbf. He'd use normal slashes, and after seeing how cracked her regen is, he would then use the big ass WCS because he'll realize that's the only way to stop her from coming back.

 

[Buraqibear]

He ain't opening with that tho tbf. He'd use normal slashes, and after seeing how cracked her regen is, he would then use the big ass WCS because he'll realize that's the only way to stop her from coming back.

Yh exactly. Makima can regenerate from Fuga too right?

 

[Zabazab]

Makima wins. Sukuna can't do anything about her haemorrhage-stare + hax-carrying minions, she'll just kill him with hax or BFR him, I vote Makima

 

[LaserPrecision]

Makima wins. Sukuna can't do anything about her haemorrhage-stare + hax-carrying minions, she'll just kill him with hax or BFR him, I vote Makima

This isn't poperly on the profile yet, so choose to ignore it if you want (Though I am currently working on implementing this, so I hope you are lenient, but again I understand if you aren't. But it IS on the profiles, just listed incorrectly): That won't work at all. Innate Domain will prevent her from using the bio-hax on him entirely and at worst results in her soul being cut and killed. Plus after a recent match-up I saw with Link vs Makima, I am more doubtful of its potency in its ability to damage him beyond a point RCT could handle anyways. But that wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Buraqibear]

Makima wins. Sukuna can't do anything about her haemorrhage-stare + hax-carrying minions, she'll just kill him with hax or BFR him, I vote Makima

He can just regenerate from the hemorrhage stare and most of her minions, if not all are one shot fodder for a basic dismantle, + it's way more likely that he WCS her before she BFR's him

 

[MochOath]

Facts;
Sukuna has a >1000x A.P./Dura advantage over Makima's physicals an a 4.29x A.P./Dura advantage over Makima's bang, has 15,586.2825789x reaction advantage over Makima's combat speed with 24.68x reaction advantage over Makima's attack speed with Bang, has 148,654x higher Attack Speed with World Cutting Slash, has a 334.45x LS advantage, has Instinctual Action (Which allows him to Summon Mahoraga and retreat into the shadows even while knocked out) Passive Fear Inducement that makes curses (the embodiment of humanity's fears with their own fear inducement) and sorcerers (people who resist curse fear inducement in most cases) wonder if it's fine to breath in his presence, Type 2 Immo, can spiritually posses Makima if he shoves a finger down her throat if he's feeling funny, Regens with RCT (allowing him to recover limbs, his heal heart, and heal parts of his brain. Equal to Gojo's RCT, who could regen through Malevolent Shrine) with insanely quick speed, can heal all previous damage to his body by transforming back into his original form (This gives Sukuna two extra arms and a stomach mouth, which can help him chant and do hands-signs mid-battle), has Shrine Dismantles that are faster than himself and are invisible to a layered degree, AoE Danmaku Spam, tens of meters with dismantles, can directly attack Makima's soul with his dismantles, Forcefield Creation via Enhanced Energy Projection with Shrine, Pseudo-Flight via Explosion Manipulation as shown here, 200 Meter Radius with MS, MS Slashes hit on target as long as the person is in range, and Divine Flame INCINERATES Makima (Though, he needs his "ingredients" to heat up before then).
Basic Sorcerers can Resist Mind Manipulation (shown here) while it was noted to be amped (shown here) with Sukuna being one of the most experienced sorcerers/the strongest sorcerer in history. He also has Heat Resistance and Limited Mind Manipulation, Perception Manipulation & Paralysis Inducement Resistance
Can do a lot with Cursed Energy (Just read the Cursed Energy page atp)
With the Tens Shadows technique, Sukuna can control shadows to either hide in his opponents shadow in order to perform a sneak attack, hide in the shadows himself in order to avoid attacks/heal, drag other people into the shadows in order to stun and immobilize their movements, or, most importantly of all, summon Shadow Based Shikigami to aid him in his battle with him being able to half summon them as well. All of his shikigami are Invisibility, Incorporeality, and Invulnerability. He has Flight, Paralysis Inducement & Electricity Manipulation with Nue, Duplication with Rabbit Escape, Water Manipulation with Max Elephant and "Piercing Blood", Adaptation, Reactive Evolution, and Additional Invulnerability (once he has adapted to a phenomena enough, he'll become completely immune to that phenomena with Mahoraga (with Sukuna being able to adapt for mahoraga), and can merge some of his Shikigami to create Agito. Mahoraga and Agito are capable of fighting alongside him, though Agito is no where near as strong as Maho or Sukuna
Makima has High-Mid law-based resurrection that grants her At least 126.1 million lives on top of her own, has an attack 56.5x faster than herself, Telekenisis, Death Ritual that crushes people to death (Though it requires a location of high altitude, sacrifices, and those said sacrifices stating the name of the person she wants to crush), Precog with the Future Devil, Life Absorption+Weapon Creation, Non-Physical Interaction, Death Manipulation+Regeneration (High-Mid) & Immortality Negation (Enhanced Type 4) with Angel, Can BFR Sukuna to hell, Halloween, has teleportation, and has a whole lot of fodder to toss at Sukuna
Makima's Bio-Manipulation was talked as a wincon previously though i'm not so sure now with cursed energy having this (Limited Biological Manipulation & Power Nullification (The inside of the body is like a Domain which makes manifesting things inside of it impossible) and Gojo, who Sukuna has comparable RCT to, regenerating from this so I'll let y'all talk it out

my eyes bro...

 

[Epiccheev]

That wall of text is scary

 

[Zabazab]

That won't work at all. Innate Domain will prevent her from using the bio-hax on him entirely and at worst results in her soul being cut and killed.

Innate Domains prevent things from being spawned inside a Sorcerer. Makima is not spawning anything inside Sukuna. It'd help him against Mold Devil but nothing else.

I am more doubtful of its potency in its ability to damage him beyond a point RCT could handle anyways.

He can just regenerate from the hemorrhage stare and most of her minions

Brain damage severely inhibits even the best RCT users (Gojo & Sukuna), the best-case scenario for Sukuna is getting away with just losing his Domain, but he could lose more techniques than that or just die instantly. Not to mention she can just keep doing it.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Innate Domains prevent things from being spawned inside a Sorcerer. Makima is not spawning anything inside Sukuna. It'd help him against Mold Devil but nothing else.

Yeah, because it's listed wrong. But that just wouldn't work at all once I've updated the page. The inside of a Sorcerer is their innate domain. It is stated to be equivalent to a domain expansion, making their interior another dimension, and their exterior the barrier. Makima would need interdimensional range to affect him. And even if she did, she would wind up like Mahito where she ends up inside the innate domain with Sukuna who would nullify her use of the ability by cutting her soul. It just ain't working at all. She needs to manifest her power/influence inside of Sukuna (his brain).

Brain damage severely inhibits even the best RCT users (Gojo & Sukuna), the best-case scenario for Sukuna is getting away with just losing his Domain, but he could lose more techniques than that or just die instantly. Not to mention she can just keep doing it.

Again, based on what I had seen from Chariot in the Link match-up, I don't think the brain damage is as potent as the damage RCT can regen the brain from. Even if she could get past his innate domain, and it was beyond the threshold, he'd still have seconds left to lock in and erase her with FTL WCS which she'd be too slow to do anything about.

 

[Pearly0nsams]

Fight takes place in Shinjuku
Starting Distance is 5 Meters
Speed is equalized
Makima has her swords
Makima has High-Mid Resurrection
Possible Soul Manipulation Sukuna Granted
Sukuna is not considered a Japanese Citizen of Makima's Japan
Makima has prior knowledge of the status

Thank you ig for the swords

 

[LaserPrecision]

LOL, i just noticed the swords. Yeah, thanks for that ig lol

 

[Epiccheev]

If Makima has her sword Sukuna should get his freak ass head to make it even

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

my eyes bro...

Was trying to leave nothing out so I don't hear no one not mentioning something that either opponent can do (I was trying to give more to Makima but I promised today so todays the day)

Thank you ig for the swords

Welcome

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Yh exactly. Makima can regenerate from Fuga too right?

yeah, she can.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

If Makima has her sword Sukuna should get his freak ass head to make it even

Just for you, I added body control on the Sukuna wall of text

 

[Buraqibear]

Brain damage severely inhibits even the best RCT users (Gojo & Sukuna), the best-case scenario for Sukuna is getting away with just losing his Domain, but he could lose more techniques than that or just die instantly. Not to mention she can just keep doing it.

Dawg, his Domain isn't even a wincon for him and Gojo could heal heavy brain damage multiple times before receiving backlash, by then Sukuna would tear her apart, realize he can't kill her normally and then WCS her

 

[ElJoaki5]

Ive always believed Sukuna's wcs bypasses makima's contract since the contract works on attacks made on her while WCS wouldn’t target her but rather space, existance and the world themselves.

 

[Pearly0nsams]

His intent is still targetting her. In fact, her contract can't even possibly be bypassed under SBA rules due to standart state of mind assumption. Ty for ur opinion

 

[LaserPrecision]

Ive always believed Sukuna's wcs bypasses makima's contract since the contract works on attacks made on her while WCS wouldn’t target her but rather space, existance and the world themselves.

It's not like WCS is conceptual destruction. It just indirectly harms the target as a result of targeting the world itself. Her contract should still let her recover from any small WCS.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Ive always believed Sukuna's wcs bypasses makima's contract since the contract works on attacks made on her while WCS wouldn’t target her but rather space, existance and the world themselves.

Off-site, I use this argument to ragebait CSM fans but, realistically, under SBA, this ain't happening.
Heck, Post Weakening Pochita and Denji vs. Makima ain't happening under SBA

 

[Specterxxxx]

I wasn't in the last vsmatch on these two so permit me if there is an obvious answer to this, but what's her counter against the 10 shadows? If he sees killing her is gonna be a problem, he more than likely would summon mahoraga and use various other shikigamis if necessary in the fight.

 

[Specterxxxx]

Also it's funny how with this invul shikigamis have on site, the rabbit is virtually useless against almost everyone outside verse.

 

[ElJoaki5]

My argument doesnt rely on Sukuna's state of mind. Makima's contract only works if its an attack made on her, so if the attack isnt made on her it doesnt work, thats what im saying.

But either way Makima can't apply her contract to soul damage, as soul damage couldn’t be turned into illnesses and accidents as its not physical damage. Or to put it more simply she just has no proof she can do anything about it either way.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

I wasn't in the last vsmatch on these two so permit me if there is an obvious answer to this, but what's her counter against the 10 shadows? If he sees killing her is gonna be a problem, he more than likely would summon mahoraga and use various other shikigamis if necessary in the fight.

I think her only viable option for them was Hell bfr but i'm not sure, I also wasn't there in that matchup

Also it's funny how with this invul shikigamis have on site, the rabbit is virtually useless against almost everyone outside verse.

fr fr, so funny

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

But either way Makima can't apply her contract to soul damage, as soul damage couldn’t be turned into illnesses and accidents as its not physical damage. Or to put it more simply she just has no proof she can do anything about it either way.

this is true, I didn't think about that. Soul Damage Sukuna should get right through her contract, surprised this wasn't talked as a wincon in any of them (though, to be fair, it;s rated as a possiblity and those usually are ignored matchups unless specifically noted)

 

[Pearly0nsams]

My argument doesnt rely on Sukuna's state of mind.

Makima's contact does in fact.. rely on that.

But either way Makima can't apply her contract to soul damage, as soul damage couldn’t be turned into illnesses and accidents as its not physical damage. Or to put it more simply she just has

Limited at best

 

[LaserPrecision]

Limited at best

It's not limited, it's possibly. But it's allowed in this match-up. Honestly I think the main issue is it being listed as Soul Manip instead of just NPI for Souls. Lotta profiles do that and it's frustrating because people then forget to differentiate the two during match-ups.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

It's not limited, it's possibly. But it's allowed in this match-up. Honestly I think the main issue is it being listed as Soul Manip instead of just NPI for Souls. Lotta profiles do that and it's frustrating because people then forget to differentiate the two during match-ups.

Is it really just NPI? The Possible Soul Manipulation section also notes that it's implied Sukuna can undo Idle transfiguration and that doesn't really just sound like "he can slash soul based beings"
Edit: I could be wrong, ofc, but i'm curious

 

[LaserPrecision]

Is it really just NPI? The Possible Soul Manipulation section also notes that it's implied Sukuna can undo Idle transfiguration and that doesn't really just souls like "he can slash soul based beings"

As far as I'm aware he never undid Idle Transfiguration. He can regenerate his soul from SSK. But all he ever did was stop Mahito from using his ability on him by attacking him inside his innate domain. Stopping him from being able to use his ability.

It's implied he can fix the shape of his soul with RCT, but he never does that. And it's technically just one application of soul manip. I'm referring specifically to his ability to physically attack souls which he has showcased.

 

[GunshyFever]

My argument doesnt rely on Sukuna's state of mind. Makima's contract only works if its an attack made on her, so if the attack isnt made on her it doesnt work, thats what im saying.

If you are ignoring Sukuna's mindset, your argument falls apart, considering that Makima's contract focuses on intent and the state of mind of the attacker rather than the attack itself.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

As far as I'm aware he never undid Idle Transfiguration.

Hence the possibility rating on his page.

He can regenerate his soul from SSK. But all he ever did was stop Mahito from using his ability on him by attacking him inside his innate domain. Stopping him from being able to use his ability.

It's implied he can fix the shape of his soul with RCT, but he never does that. And it's technically just one application of soul manip. I'm referring specifically to his ability to physically attack souls which he has showcased.

sure, i agree

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

If you are ignoring Sukuna's mindset, your argument falls apart, considering that Makima's contract focuses on intent and the state of mind of the attacker rather than the attack itself.

Finally you're here.
This'll be entertaining on both sides

 

[GunshyFever]

Not for long. The innate domain stuff needs to be applied first, so I will probably just spectate until someone says something that makes me feel inclined to respond.

 

[Pearly0nsams]

It's not limited, it's possibly. But it's allowed in this match-up. Honestly I think the main issue is it being listed as Soul Manip instead of just NPI for Souls. Lotta profiles do that and it's frustrating because people then forget to differentiate the two during match-ups.

He has only showcased the ability to harm soul in his innate domain soul vs soul irrc. Even if ppl insist on him having soul stuff so bad he is so "gentle" he never uses it in fight for some reason

 

[Pearly0nsams]

Makima has a feat listed on her profile under speed feats section that can get her FTL reactions but CSM Discussion Thread won't let it

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Not for long. The innate domain stuff needs to be applied first, so I will probably just spectate until someone says something that makes me feel inclined to respond.

Damn...
Well, alright then

Yeah, because it's listed wrong. But that just wouldn't work at all once I've updated the page. The inside of a Sorcerer is their innate domain. It is stated to be equivalent to a domain expansion, making their interior another dimension, and their exterior the barrier. Makima would need interdimensional range to affect him. And even if she did, she would wind up like Mahito where she ends up inside the innate domain with Sukuna who would nullify her use of the ability by cutting her soul. It just ain't working at all. She needs to manifest her power/influence inside of Sukuna (his brain).

How soon can you get that Inate Domain stuff implimented?

 

[GunshyFever]

Makima has a feat listed on her profile under speed feats section that can get her FTL reactions but CSM Discussion Thread won't let it

Huge outlier sadly.

 

[LaserPrecision]

He has only showcased the ability to harm soul in his innate doima soul vs soul irrc. Even if ppl insist on him having soul stuff so bad he is so "gentle" he never uses it in fight for some reason

I think the reason he doesn't use it in most fights is because his opponent's ability doesn't have a soul related weakness like Makima's contract does since it only deals with physical damage. Which is why I don't think Sukuna starts off with soul damage like other people are arguing (I think that's disingenuous. Same for using a thick WCS right away, that's just not true). I think after he tries killing Makima several times and sees how crazy her contract is, THEN he'll start using soul shit or big WCS to get around it. Because it's evidence regular attacks won't cut it.