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GRACE [0-7-0] They're human, fight good and are great kings - Aragorn vs Varian Wrynn

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Nonynho

Nonynho

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So Varian should take this.

He scales to like three army solos, and was a gladiator. Varian is known for doing no-hit runs in said gladiator things, so... relatively even skill.

The problem is versatility. Varian can go from one two-handed swords to two one-handed swords to physical blows and switch between these as needed. Aragorn only really has a sword and torches. And the latter is basically useless here. This leaves rando equipment that doesn't really help against a man built like a 7 foot tall freight train who also has the tendency to just kill the MFer and get it over with.

Also only one of these people is wearing thick ass armor. That helps a lot.
 
DaReaperMan said:
relatively even skill.
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Yeah, now i think Aragorn has a dent here because his profile states that

By the time of the War of the Rings, Aragorn was one of the most skilled combatants in the War, being one of only three to come out unharmed in the Battle of Pelennor Fields and never sustaining a single injury for the entire trilogy
Click to expand...

Which is a tiny bit more impressive than Varian's feats

DaReaperMan said:
The problem is versatility. Varian can go from one two-handed swords to two one-handed swords to physical blows and switch between these as needed. Aragorn only really has a sword and torches. And the latter is basically useless here. This leaves rando equipment that doesn't really help against a man built like a 7 foot tall freight train who also has the tendency to just kill the MFer and get it over with.

Also only one of these people is wearing thick ass armor. That helps a lot.
Click to expand...
What if we give limited prior knowledge to Aragorn (His opponent is heavily armored and can have 2 swords)? It does seem like he's out of a proper response without it
 
Nonynho said:
Yeah, now i think Aragorn has a dent here because his profile states that



Which is a tiny bit more impressive than Varian's feats
Click to expand...
Same went for Varian in Ashenvale. Ga'nar was barely tagged once when soloing a big ass army in a pass before a ******* mountain was dropped on him and Varian is a good bit better than Ga'nar, hell, even in the Siege of Orgrimmar Varian is never shown as having taken any damage.
Nonynho said:
What if we give limited prior knowledge to Aragorn (His opponent is heavily armored and can have 2 swords)? It does seem like he's out of a proper response without it
Click to expand...
The Two swords thing spoils that surprise and as for armor... is Aragorn blind? Deaf, too?
 
Also if I really wanted to extrapolate it, Thrall was stated to be the most powerful and skilled orc, so he's more skilled than Broxigar the Red who LITERALLY MADE A MOUNTAIN OF DEMONS BIG ENOUGH TO BE SEEN FROM SPACE, and Varian is superior to Thrall in skill. Ignore that this is an extreme high-end for him.
 

Also this.

Jokes aside, that shows just how ballfuckingly huge Varian's Whirlwinds are. Now excuse me as I improve that page.
 
DaReaperMan said:
as for armor... is Aragorn blind? Deaf, too?
Click to expand...
yeah, no, i need some coffee, ignore i said it

DaReaperMan said:

Also this
Click to expand...

Will watch this with sound later lol

DaReaperMan said:
Same went for Varian in Ashenvale. Ga'nar was barely tagged once when soloing a big ass army in a pass before a ******* mountain was dropped on him and Varian is a good bit better than Ga'nar, hell, even in the Siege of Orgrimmar Varian is never shown as having taken any damage.
Click to expand...
bet.
Then i think this is unfortunately a bit unfair without the prior knowledge of the sword
 
DaReaperMan said:
The Two swords thing spoils that surprise and as for armor... is Aragorn blind? Deaf, too?
Click to expand...
Notably Aragorn has enhanced senses that actually make it nigh-impossible to be caught off guard by a conventional trick like that.

"In addition the people, tall and strong, were agile, andextremely “aware”: that is they were in control of their bodily actions, andof any tool or material they handled, and seldom made absent-minded orblundering movements; and they were very difficult to take “off theirguard”."

Anyway, for a brief run down, Aragorn is above skill for all mortal warriors of the Third-Age. This includes other one-man armies like Boromir (who did die when fighting over a hundred Uruks, but notably without his shield and he was only wounded by arrow fire and by the time he's dead his sword is broken), Gimli who jumped into the breach at Helm's Deep and survived solo for a while without any major injuries, Eomer and Imrahil who also came out of the Battle of Pelennor Fields without any injuries, etc.

So like DaReaperMan said, both are one man armies, with Varian having the better showings but it's close enough (plus Aragorn has senses that specifically help with this kind of skill based fight).

Aragorn however doesn't have much going for equipment. Notably, if this is Aragorn as "Strider" he is in light armour, however, Two Towers and onwards he's in the best Rohirric and later Gondorian steel armour (with helmet too) so he's not unarmoured tbf. It just wasn't worth listing on profile at the time. That aside, he still has the Elessar to passively augment his "Low" Regeneration which is more of a stamina buff let's be real than actually pragmatic healing. He also still has his scabbard that renders the weapon drawn from it invulnerable, so he has an advantage there. The Elendilmir is inconsistent as help at best and useless here.

Now, there are other things to consider than that.
  • Mind Manip resistance for Varian is notably listed as only against Mind Control. If this is true, then Aragorn can read his thoughts mid-combat for advantages (which helps nullify the surprise of Varian's unconventionality in weapon amount more)
  • Theoretically, Aragorn could curse his weapon so that Varian insta-dies from picking it up or touching it. But that's massively OOC.
  • Two swords do give Aragorn a flat-out disadvantage no matter what. 2 is more than 1 and with his better LS Varian can keep Aragorn's blade locked in place if he gets him in a bad angle. On the flip side better AP for Aragorn interacts weirdly here since I'm unsure if AP or LS matters more for parrying or disarming so I'll leave that unmentioned.
All in all... uh...

Idk? Tbh Aragorn is lower in skill overall but he can compensate for that but Varian has a flat out advantage in two blades. But Aragorn also has a flat out advantage in AP and seems to have Telepathy to let him read Varian's mind...

I'm going to be a coward and just say Incon until I get the Mind Manip resistance clarified.
 
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Tyranno223 said:
Notably Aragorn has enhanced senses that actually make it nigh-impossible to be caught off guard by a conventional trick like that.

"In addition the people, tall and strong, were agile, andextremely “aware”: that is they were in control of their bodily actions, andof any tool or material they handled, and seldom made absent-minded orblundering movements; and they were very difficult to take “off theirguard”."

Anyway, for a brief run down, Aragorn is above skill for all mortal warriors of the Third-Age. This includes other one-man armies like Boromir (who did die when fighting over a hundred Uruks, but notably without his shield and he was only wounded by arrow fire and by the time he's dead his sword is broken), Gimli who jumped into the breach at Helm's Deep and survived solo for a while without any major injuries, Eomer and Imrahil who also came out of the Battle of Pelennor Fields without any injuries, etc.

So like DaReaperMan said, both are one man armies, with Varian having the better showings but it's close enough (plus Aragorn has senses that specifically help with this kind of skill based fight).

Aragorn however doesn't have much going for equipment. Notably, if this is Aragorn as "Strider" he is in light armour, however, Two Towers and onwards he's in the best Rohirric and later Gondorian steel armour (with helmet too) so he's not unarmoured tbf. It just wasn't worth listing on profile. That aside, he still has the Elessar to passively augment his "Low" Regeneration which is more of a stamina buff let's be real than actually pragmatic healing. He also still has his scabbard that renders the weapon drawn from it invulnerable, so he has an advantage there. The Elendilmir is inconsistent as help at best and useless here.

Now, there are other things to consider than that.
  • Mind Manip resistance for Varian is notably listed as only against Mind Control. If this is true, then Aragorn can read his thoughts mid-combat for advantages (which helps nullify the surprise of Varian's unconventionality in weapon amount more)
  • Theoretically, Aragorn could curse his weapon so that Varian insta-dies from picking it up or touching it. But that's massively OOC.
  • Two swords do give Aragorn a flat-out disadvantage no matter what. 2 is more than 1 and with his better LS Varian can keep Aragorn's blade locked in place if he gets him in a bad angle. On the flip side better AP for Aragorn interacts weirdly here since I'm unsure if AP or LS matters more for parrying or disarming so I'll leave that unmentioned.
All in all... uh...

Idk? Tbh Aragorn is lower in skill overall but he can compensate for that but Varian has a flat out advantage in two blades. But Aragorn also has a flat out advantage in AP and seems to have Telepathy to let him read Varian's mind...

I'm going to be a coward and just say Incon until I get the Mind Manip resistance clarified.
Click to expand...
Yeah Varian doesn't resist Telepathy, but in that same vein he's literally fought Naga who could read his mind. Those Naga died in one swing each, because Varian is built different.

the problem is that Varian is in heavy platemail. And under that is heavy scalemail. And under that is chainmail. And under that is armored leather and-- did I mention he's built like a brick wall under that armor? If Aragorn goes for anything but a headshot he's got good odds of his sword just bouncing off despite the AP advantage, while Varian still has open points to actually hit flesh on Aragorn instead of armor thicker than hell. And keep in mind, Varian likes using those pauldrons to defend himself for wider swings, so as opening isn't actually an opening.

Not to mention Varian scales like five dudes above, a stomp, and a one-shot above his value for AP, so he's not exactly out here directly scaling to that.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Yeah Varian doesn't resist Telepathy, but in that same vein he's literally fought Naga who could read his mind. Those Naga died in one swing each, because Varian is built different.

the problem is is that Varian is in heavy platemail. And under that is heavy scalemail. And under that is chainmail. And under that is armored leather and-- did I mention he's built like a brick wall under that armor? If Aragorn goes for anything but a headshot he's got good odds of his sword just bouncing off despite the AP advantage, while Varian still has open points to actually hit flesh on Aragorn.

Not to mention Varian scales like five dudes above, a stomp, and a one-shot above his value for AP, so he's not exactly out here directly scaling to that.
Click to expand...
That does help close the AP gap but idk if it closes the almost 2.5x AP gap when Aragorn also should scale above that his 9-B by a fair amount given even an above average Gondorian soldier can take multiple hits from Trolls with lower quality armour than Aragorn.

I do think Aragorn would try and aim for the head given he has a history of head lobbing even in the Books. But that does help. Like I said, Gondorian armour by itself is decent for its tier, letting Beregond get off fairly okay against hits from a troll chieftain so Aragorn isn't exactly going to die from a single strike to his armour either.
 
Tyranno223 said:
That does help close the AP gap but idk if it closes the almost 2.5x AP gap when Aragorn also should scale above that his 9-B by a fair amount given even an above average Gondorian soldier can take multiple hits from Trolls with lower quality armour than Aragorn.

I do think Aragorn would try and aim for the head given he has a history of head lobbing even in the Books. But that does help. Like I said, Gondorian armour by itself is decent for its tier, letting Beregond get off fairly okay against hits from a troll chieftain so Aragorn isn't exactly going to die from a single strike to his armour either.
Click to expand...
This is 7-A, So... in terms of AP I'm pretty sure Aragorn is just directly scaling to his value.

As for how Varian handles the weapon... well he likes using a two-handed style, and him guard breaking would not be uncommon since bodychecking someone or putting out a whirlwind is something he likes to do. If you're only focused on what's in his damn hands, he's going to wreck you.
DaReaperMan said:

Also this.

Jokes aside, that shows just how ballfuckingly huge Varian's Whirlwinds are. Now excuse me as I improve that page.
Click to expand...

His whirlwinds are huge. (3:27 for the timestamp.)
 
DaReaperMan said:
This is 7-A, So... in terms of AP I'm pretty sure Aragorn is just directly scaling to his value.
Click to expand...
Right, I somehow forgot equipment doesn't scale to the character's tier. Welp.

DaReaperMan said:
As for how Varian handles the weapon... well he likes using a two-handed style, and him guard breaking would not be uncommon since bodychecking someone or putting out a whirlwind is something he likes to do. If you're only focused on what's in his damn hands, he's going to wreck you.
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Guard breaking isn't the worst thing for Aragorn since he'll know it's coming due to two methods of prior warning. We don't exactly get the best detail on how Aragorn fights, but it tends to focus on quickly rushing down the enemy and smiting them, usually to the head from the more detailed accounts we get.

"Come!’ said Aragorn. ‘This is the hour when we draw swords together!’ Running like fire, they sped along the wall, and up the steps, and passed into the outer court upon the Rock"

"Andruil came down upon his helm. There was a flash like flame and the helm burst asunder. The orc fell with cloven head."

For example.

Granted, if Aragorn does try to block it'll be bad with the 3x LS advantage.

DaReaperMan said:
His whirlwinds are huge. (3:27 for the timestamp.)
Click to expand...
Oh boy that's a doozy. It's not massive granted, but not really in the dodge area. In theory Aragorn can block it but... well, I won't bet too much on it since it tears up the ground.

And he has an instant cast version of it, ofc. Honestly that might do it since a 2.5x difference in AP and durability isn't too hard to overcome. A few of those in a row and Aragorn's down. Is it in character to spam it repeatedly?
 
Tyranno223 said:
Right, I somehow forgot equipment doesn't scale to the character's tier. Welp.


Guard breaking isn't the worst thing for Aragorn since he'll know it's coming due to two methods of prior warning. We don't exactly get the best detail on how Aragorn fights, but it tends to focus on quickly rushing down the enemy and smiting them, usually to the head from the more detailed accounts we get.

"Come!’ said Aragorn. ‘This is the hour when we draw swords together!’ Running like fire, they sped along the wall, and up the steps, and passed into the outer court upon the Rock"

"Andruil came down upon his helm. There was a flash like flame and the helm burst asunder. The orc fell with cloven head."

For example.

Granted, if Aragorn does try to block it'll be bad with the 3x LS advantage.
Click to expand...
Varian probably can deal with that. Those pauldrons are both for looks and blocking, and it wouldn't be the first time someone immediately tried to take off his head.
Tyranno223 said:
Oh boy that's a doozy. It's not massive granted, but not really in the dodge area. In theory Aragorn can block it but... well, I won't bet too much on it since it tears up the ground.

And he has an instant cast version of it, ofc. Honestly that might do it since a 2.5x difference in AP and durability isn't too hard to overcome. A few of those in a row and Aragorn's down. Is it in character to spam it repeatedly?
Click to expand...
Pretty sure the ground breaking is from a Shaman or his Heroic leap, but the whirlwind is just ad big as that AoE. As for spamming it... he might. Not something he'll generally do, but Varian does what works, so if he decides to whirlwind and notices it works...

Oh, and Shalamanyne has 5-B durability. So no chipping or breaking.
 
Tyranno223 said:
Yeah, shame but it had to happen eventually.

Funny how spamming spin to win is basically how Aragorn goes down after beating Radahn of all people.
Click to expand...
It's also against Varian ******* Wrynn

Losing a sword duel with a badass like that is nothing to beat yourself up over lmfao
 
DemonicDude said:
Why do they all look like that series which has really big men with tiny head inside giant mecha armors, Come on @DaReaperMan ya know what i'm talking about.
Click to expand...
Oh, i know that one!
It's Argano from Ordem Paranormal Hexatombe

Arte-Argano-em-Hexatombe.webp
 
I just thought how funny it is that Reaper, who afaik is very Horde-oriented, was the main arguer for Alliance's side here
 
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