Ninjago: Fixing verse part 1

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Hi everyone, I don’t have much to talk about today, so let’s get started

Spinjitzu​

Spoiler: Spinjitzu: New ability

Spinjitzu

• Limited Passive Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; If someone use Spinjitzu for evil purposes, it could affect the balance between good and evil and that whoever gave in to that temptation could destroy the world)

Spoiler: Tornado of Creation

Add note about:

This abilities is only limited for at least 4 users of Spinjitzu.

Add full solid Creation for ToC, since it's stated to be powers of Creation, many times

Shatterspin:

• Passive Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; Shatterspin is a evil and corrupted form of Spinjitzu, who means it passively affect the balance between good and evil)
• Power Nullification (Shatterspin can be used to negate magic, shown when Rox nullified Sora's wish, and Asa negate the Runes of Binding that petrified Spectral Crown)
• Aura (Explosive; The user boosted by evil aura of red lighting signifying their Shatterspin state)

Rising Dragon Technique:

• Shockwave Generation (Like Shatterspin, the user can produce shockwaves by slamming the ground or by stomping)

Add at very least FTL Flight speed to the users, since it shown when use it, they can blitz multiple characters, like

• Egalt blitz Ninja.
• Kai was fast enough that Nay didn't notice him (blitz).
• Kai was able to blitz Cinder.
• Lloyd and Nya shown to be comparable to Kai.
• Zane shown to be comparable to Nay.

So i think it should be add like this:

• Higher flight speed (Rising Dragon Technique are increasing flight speed) up to at very least FTL flight speed (3.6c; It shown that Rising Dragon Technique can increasing user's flight speed to point where he can blitz characters, who scales to this)

Now types:
All of them has abilities of regular Spinjitzu

Spoiler: Spinjitzu Burst

• Empowerment (When surrounded by their element, Elemental Masters can become stronger and create a giant Spinjitzu vortex, just like Cole did in against Vangelis.)
• Levitation (The user to levitate as seen with Cole)
• Shockwave Generation (The user is able to produce shockwaves by slamming the ground. These shockwaves are incredibly powerful, being strong enough to send a Vangelis flying against a rock)

Spoiler: Forbidden Spinjitzu

• Aura (Rage-inducing; Forbidden Spinjitzu corrupts the user's mind, and boost them by evil aura making them angrier and more aggressive, and also stronger)
  • Passive Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; Forbidden Spinjitzu is a evil form of Spinjitzu, means it passively affect the balance between good and evil)

Spoiler: Airjitzu

• Restricted Flight (Airjitzu allows the user to fly in the air for a short period of time.)

Elemental Powers and Dark Matter​

Spoiler: Dark Matter

This is only would add to The Overlord [Orginal form & Possessing Garmadon] and Clouse [Dark Island arc]

• Passive effects:
  • Poison Manipulation & Absorption (Dark Matter are passively poisions and siphons the mind, body and spirit)
  • Transmutation (Dark Matter passively transform life beings into zombies)
  • Conceptual Mind & Soul Manipulation (Type 1; Dark Matter can passively affect balance between good and evil, a fundamental metaphysical nature/essence of reality)

All of those would be 2 Layers for The Overlord due to this [page get accept before]

Spoiler: Elemental Powers

Abilities:

• Conceptual Purification (All Types [Concept Type 1]; Elemental Powers can purify beings and remove dark matter, which poisions and siphons the mind, body and spirit at a conceptual level. It can also transform life beings into zombies and is stated to be corruption itself.)
• Resistance to:
  • All abilities and powers of Dark Matter (Elemental Masters in Dark Island were able to resist and overcome Dark Matter. This is consistent with Lloyd being able to break free from an even more enhanced amount of Dark Matter, Wu being able to fight off and eventually overcome a strong amount of Dark Matter and Lloyd, Zane and Cole getting even closer to Dark Matter and still resist the effects. Misako also confirms that their Elemental Energy allows them to counter the effects of that Dark Matter)

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

I am confused. You are not deleting the verse. How is this fixing it?

Not sure about CM for Spinjitzu. The scan seems to imply that the use of Spinjitzu for evil would affect the outcome of the overall fight about good vs evil, not really the concepts. Can you expand on your argument for CM and possibly provide more scans?

Spinjitzu Burst has an issue where the scan for "like Cole did in against Vangelis." doesn't work for me, but that could just be region locked content. Otherwise the arguments are pretty straightforward and self-evident.

Tornado of Creation arguments are likewise pretty solid and self-evident as is Airjitzu.

For Dark Matter, I have a few minor gripes. Poison Manipulation and Absorption seem alright, and you can also include Mind Manipulation and possibly Soul Manipulation - depending on what the scan means about "spirit" - with this scan, if it isn't already on the page. As for Transmutation, I disagree with this. The ability sounds closer to Life Manipulation and Necromancy. I have already explained why I have issues with CM, so I just ask again for you to expand on your argument.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I agree with Legend but the Elemental Power Section is already a thing within the Elemental Powers page anyways

 

[VladimirMakarov317]

I am confused. You are not deleting the verse. How is this fixing it?

Not sure about CM for Spinjitzu. The scan seems to imply that the use of Spinjitzu for evil would affect the outcome of the overall fight about good vs evil, not really the concepts. Can you expand on your argument for CM and possibly provide more scans?

Spinjitzu Burst has an issue where the scan for "like Cole did in against Vangelis." doesn't work for me, but that could just be region locked content. Otherwise the arguments are pretty straightforward and self-evident.

Tornado of Creation arguments are likewise pretty solid and self-evident as is Airjitzu.

For Dark Matter, I have a few minor gripes. Poison Manipulation and Absorption seem alright, and you can also include Mind Manipulation and possibly Soul Manipulation - depending on what the scan means about "spirit" - with this scan, if it isn't already on the page. As for Transmutation, I disagree with this. The ability sounds closer to Life Manipulation and Necromancy. I have already explained why I have issues with CM, so I just ask again for you to expand on your argument.

Dark matter can effect the balance which is a conceptual force in ninjago

 

[Lort15]

I am confused. You are not deleting the verse. How is this fixing it?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Everything I don't mention I agree with.

Disagree with Conceptual Manip. I dislike how Balance is treated here overall. I'll change all of that later myself in my own CRT, rn I don't care if it passes. (Though the fact that kid Lloyd changes Balance by just unlocking Spinjitzu is ridiculously funny)
Where are you planning to add Tornado of Creation? It is only accessible to at least four Ninjas with Golden Weapons, so not sure where you'd add it.
Adding 2 layers to Dark Matter is literally circular reasoning, what? Baseline resistance comes from resisting Dark Matter. So nay here as well.
I'd also suggest to add Garmatron to Garmadon's profile while we're at whole Dark Matter stuff, but that's how ya want.

 

[Minaaaa]

Transmutation (Dark Matter passively transform life beings into zombies)

This probably shouldn't be passive as someone has to actually touch dark matter for this to happen. The way it is now implies they just need to be around it, which doesn't happen

 

[Lort15]

This probably shouldn't be passive as someone has to actually touch dark matter for this to happen. The way it is now implies they just need to be around it, which doesn't happen

Passive means the ability is always active, it's just if you touch that you will get corrupted not something like the dark matter needs to activate the ability on its own or someone else

 

[Legend_of_the_Night0425]

Everything I don't mention I agree with.

Disagree with Conceptual Manip. I dislike how Balance is treated here overall. I'll change all of that later myself in my own CRT, rn I don't care if it passes. (Though the fact that kid Lloyd changes Balance by just unlocking Spinjitzu is ridiculously funny)
Where are you planning to add Tornado of Creation? It is only accessible to at least four Ninjas with Golden Weapons, so not sure where you'd add it.
Adding 2 layers to Dark Matter is literally circular reasoning, what? Baseline resistance comes from resisting Dark Matter. So nay here as well.
I'd also suggest to add Garmatron to Garmadon's profile while we're at whole Dark Matter stuff, but that's how ya want.

I don't think the Golden Weapons are required to do the Tornado of Creation. Pretty sure the ninja didn't have them when they performed that first one from ep 2 of the pilot

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I don't think the Golden Weapons are required to do the Tornado of Creation. Pretty sure the ninja didn't have them when they performed that first one from ep 2 of the pilot

It needs simply to be near or something. I recall there were statements that this is why they only ever used it in Pilot, Season 1 and Season 10, nowhere else.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

I am confused. You are not deleting the verse. How is this fixing it?

Not sure about CM for Spinjitzu. The scan seems to imply that the use of Spinjitzu for evil would affect the outcome of the overall fight about good vs evil, not really the concepts.

It explains if someone use Spinjitzu for evil, it would affect the Balance between good and evil, causing damage to the reality

Can you expand on your argument for CM and possibly provide more scans?

Spoiler: Concept staff

Balance/Duality between Light and Darkness is the nature/essence of every being and even the universe

Wu says that imbalance between Light and Darkness, are affecting universe at fundamental level

It shown that Balance are shape, governs, and affects all of realms

• Garmadon said Balance is what keeps reality safe.
• Nadakhan's father said every Balance affects the realities that are connected to each other.
• Wu explained that reality and all beings are mixtures of light and dark, meaning they are made by it.

More feats for Concept staff

• It is stated that if Balance (Light or Darkness) is destroyed, the entire Ninjago realm, and even the other realms would be destroyed.
• In The Dark Island Trilogy, it is stated that if Clouse continues to distort the Balance, it may cause the entire reality — and even other realities — to distort and be destroyed.
• Garmadon says Balance is what keeps reality safe. Without Balance/Duality, all beings would be in danger and reality would not be safe. It even supported in Books. This shows that all realms and all beings need Balance.
• After Wu restored the duality between Light and Darkness, reality began returning to normal.

(It get accepted)

Spinjitzu Burst has an issue where the scan for "like Cole did in against Vangelis." doesn't work for me, but that could just be region locked content. Otherwise the arguments are pretty straightforward and self-evident.

Here

For Dark Matter, I have a few minor gripes. Poison Manipulation and Absorption seem alright, and you can also include Mind Manipulation and possibly Soul Manipulation - depending on what the scan means about "spirit" - with this scan, if it isn't already on the page.

It's on page

• Mind and Morality Manipulation, Madness Manipulation (Types 1 & 2), Corruption (Both Types), Soul Manipulation & Perception Manipulation (The Ninja can stay on the Dark Island for an extended period of time and negate the effects of Dark Matter, with Dark Matter being everywhere on the Dark Island and the Dark Island being corruption itself. Dark Matter poisions and siphons the mind, body and spirit, even changing their perception of time.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Elemental_Powers_(Ninjago)#cite_note-4"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a>)

I disagree with this. The ability sounds closer to Life Manipulation and Necromancy.

No, he doesn't control the bodies and/or souls of the deceased, it corrupted life beings, like humans, and transforms them into zombies.

I have already explained why I have issues with CM, so I just ask again for you to expand on your argument.

I don't need to explain, since it get accepted before

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Where are you planning to add Tornado of Creation? It is only accessible to at least four Ninjas with Golden Weapons, so not sure where you'd add it.

Well i think remove this type and add abilities to Spinjitzu, but it would be with note it's limited to at least 4 Ninja

Adding 2 layers to Dark Matter is literally circular reasoning, what? Baseline resistance comes from resisting Dark Matter. So nay here as well.

No, it's 2 Layers for only Overlord's powers not Dark Matter

I'd also suggest to add Garmatron to Garmadon's profile while we're at whole Dark Matter stuff, but that's how ya want.

I meant add these are abilities to users who has abilities of Dark Matter [of course, 2 Layers only for Overlord]

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Well i think remove this type and add abilities to Spinjitzu, but it would be with note it's limited to at least 4 Ninja

Spinjitzu page already has those:

• Construction (When combining the main 4 elements by performing Spinjitzu close to each other, the ninjas can create a large vortex and build things such as a ferris wheel using materials around them.)
• Size Manipulation (The Tornado of Creation allows the users to grow their Spinjitzu in size)
• Possibly Creation (Spinjitzu is implied to have to powers of Creation)

No, it's 2 Layers for only Overlord's powers not Dark Matter

He already has 2 layers though.

I meant add these are abilities to users who has abilities of Dark Matter [of course, 2 Layers only for Overlord]

I meant that Garmadon currently doesn't have Garmatron as equipment or in PnA.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

It explains if someone use Spinjitzu for evil, it would affect the Balance between good and evil, causing damage to the reality

Spoiler: Concept staff

Balance/Duality between Light and Darkness is the nature/essence of every being and even the universe

Wu says that imbalance between Light and Darkness, are affecting universe at fundamental level

It shown that Balance are shape, governs, and affects all of realms

• Garmadon said Balance is what keeps reality safe.
• Nadakhan's father said every Balance affects the realities that are connected to each other.
• Wu explained that reality and all beings are mixtures of light and dark, meaning they are made by it.

More feats for Concept staff

• It is stated that if Balance (Light or Darkness) is destroyed, the entire Ninjago realm, and even the other realms would be destroyed.
• In The Dark Island Trilogy, it is stated that if Clouse continues to distort the Balance, it may cause the entire reality — and even other realities — to distort and be destroyed.
• Garmadon says Balance is what keeps reality safe. Without Balance/Duality, all beings would be in danger and reality would not be safe. It even supported in Books. This shows that all realms and all beings need Balance.
• After Wu restored the duality between Light and Darkness, reality began returning to normal.

(It get accepted)

Here

Yep, that is a pretty solid argument for CM.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Spinjitzu page already has those:

I meant it should be add note that it limited to 4 Ninja

He already has 2 layers though.

Yes, but again meant these abilities would get 2 Layers immediately, since 2 Layers get accepted

I meant that Garmadon currently doesn't have Garmatron as equipment or in PnA.

Let's add this as equipment, since he doesn't manipulate it

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

I add purification, since i see Elemental Powers only has type 1

 

[Random-Helper323]

Spinjitzu​

• Limited Passive Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; If someone use Spinjitzu for evil purposes, it could affect the balance between good and evil and that whoever gave in to that temptation could destroy the world)

I'm not sure we can call this Concept Manipulation.

Add full solid Creation for ToC, since it's stated to be powers of Creation, many times

Neutral. This could work. Any examples of anything being created with it?

Shatterspin:

• Passive Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; Shatterspin is a evil and corrupted form of Spinjitzu, who means it passively affect the balance between good and evil)

Same uncertainty as above.

• Power Nullification (Shatterspin can be used to negate magic, shown when Rox nullified Sora's wish, and Asa negate the Runes of Binding that petrified Spectral Crown)

This sounds reasonable in theory.

• Aura (Explosive; The user boosted by evil aura of red lighting signifying their Shatterspin state)

Sounds okay.

Rising Dragon Technique:

• Shockwave Generation (Like Shatterspin, the user can produce shockwaves by slamming the ground or by stomping)

Sounds okay.

Add at very least FTL Flight speed to the users, since it shown when use it, they can blitz multiple characters, like

• Egalt blitz Ninja.
• Kai was fast enough that Nay didn't notice him (blitz).
• Kai was able to blitz Cinder.
• Lloyd and Nya shown to be comparable to Kai.
• Zane shown to be comparable to Nay.

So i think it should be add like this:

• Higher flight speed (Rising Dragon Technique are increasing flight speed) up to at very least FTL flight speed (3.6c; It shown that Rising Dragon Technique can increasing user's flight speed to point where he can blitz characters, who scales to this)

I get the feeling I'd need to know the verse to draw conclusions here.

Now types:
All of them has abilities of regular Spinjitzu

• Empowerment (When surrounded by their element, Elemental Masters can become stronger and create a giant Spinjitzu vortex, just like Cole did in against Vangelis.)
• Levitation (The user to levitate as seen with Cole)
• Shockwave Generation (The user is able to produce shockwaves by slamming the ground. These shockwaves are incredibly powerful, being strong enough to send a Vangelis flying against a rock)

Seems okay.

Aura (Rage-inducing; Forbidden Spinjitzu corrupts the user's mind, and boost them by evil aura making them angrier and more aggressive, and also stronger)

This seems to be corruption.

Passive Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; Forbidden Spinjitzu is a evil form of Spinjitzu, means it passively affect the balance between good and evil)

Still have the same issues.

• Restricted Flight (Airjitzu allows the user to fly in the air for a short period of time.)

Should be okay.

Elemental Powers and Dark Matter​

This is only would add to The Overlord [Orginal form & Possessing Garmadon] and Clouse [Dark Island arc]

• Passive effects:
  • Poison Manipulation & Absorption (Dark Matter are passively poisions and siphons the mind, body and spirit)

Okay.

Transmutation (Dark Matter passively transform life beings into zombies)

Couldn't this be corruption?

• Conceptual Mind & Soul Manipulation (Type 1; Dark Matter can passively affect balance between good and evil, a fundamental metaphysical nature/essence of reality)

Same issues as above. The addition of soul manipulation also doesn't seem reasonable.

 

[VladimirMakarov317]

I'm not sure we can call this Concept Manipulation.

Neutral. This could work. Any examples of anything being created with it?

Same uncertainty as above.

This sounds reasonable in theory.

Sounds okay.

Sounds okay.

I get the feeling I'd need to know the verse to draw conclusions here.

Seems okay.

This seems to be corruption.

Still have the same issues.

Should be okay.

Okay.

Couldn't this be corruption?

Same issues as above. The addition of soul manipulation also doesn't seem reasonable.

Concept manipulation part should be allowed as it effects the Balance which is a conceptual force in ninjago

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Ninjago_Cosmology#The_Balance_(Low_1-C)

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

I'm not sure we can call this Concept Manipulation.

Concept staff are get accept before, but i would give you CM staff

Spoiler: Concept staff

Balance/Duality between Light and Darkness is the nature/essence of every being and even the universe

Wu says that imbalance between Light and Darkness, are affecting universe at fundamental level

It shown that Balance are shape, governs, and affects all of realms

• Garmadon said Balance is what keeps reality safe.
• Nadakhan's father said every Balance affects the realities that are connected to each other.
• Wu explained that reality and all beings are mixtures of light and dark, meaning they are made by it.

More feats for Concept staff

• It is stated that if Balance (Light or Darkness) is destroyed, the entire Ninjago realm, and even the other realms would be destroyed.
• In The Dark Island Trilogy, it is stated that if Clouse continues to distort the Balance, it may cause the entire reality — and even other realities — to distort and be destroyed.
• Garmadon says Balance is what keeps reality safe. Without Balance/Duality, all beings would be in danger and reality would not be safe. It even supported in Books. This shows that all realms and all beings need Balance.
• After Wu restored the duality between Light and Darkness, reality began returning to normal.

(It get accepted)

Neutral. This could work. Any examples of anything being created with it?

Yes, as stated here

I get the feeling I'd need to know the verse to draw conclusions here.

FTL staff are get accept by staffs and clac staffs

This seems to be corruption.

How this is Corruption? If you mean Corruption for SOFS (The Scrolls of Forbidden Spinjitzu) then yes, but for Forbidden Spinjitzu itself, this is Rage Power, as it boost them by evil aura making them angrier, and also give them fabulous powers

Couldn't this be corruption?

It stated to be "turn people into a zombies", so technically it's Transmutation. There also other characters has same thing as this

Michael Morningstar:

• Mind Manipulation, Transmutation, Empathic Manipulation & Corruption (Both Types; Mana user can resist Darkstar's corruption<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Mana_(Ben_10)#cite_note-All_That_Glitters-7"><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a>, which make anyone become zombie and turn that attracted to him and control their minds after being drained<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Mana_(Ben_10)#cite_note-All_That_Glitters-7"><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a>)

Same issues as above. The addition of soul manipulation also doesn't seem reasonable.

The addition of Soul Manipulation come from this, but Dark Matter powers are working at conceptual level

 

[YmTheSuper]

Limited Passive Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; If someone use Spinjitzu for evil purposes, it could affect the balance between good and evil and that whoever gave in to that temptation could destroy the world)

Passive Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; Shatterspin is a evil and corrupted form of Spinjitzu, who means it passively affect the balance between good and evil)

Passive Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; Forbidden Spinjitzu is a evil form of Spinjitzu, means it passively affect the balance between good and evil)

This shouldn't grant conceptual manipulation as the Spinjitzu user isn't directly manipulating/altering the balance but rather the balance is being altered indirectly as a consequence of the user doing evil actions. The case is similar for the shatterspin and for forbidden Spinjitzu.

Aura (Rage-inducing; Forbidden Spinjitzu corrupts the user's mind, and boost them by evil aura making them angrier and more aggressive, and also stronger)

This should more so be Berserk Mode as the way it's currently written implies that the aura induces rage on others when it only affects the user.

Conceptual Mind & Soul Manipulation (Type 1; Dark Matter can passively affect balance between good and evil, a fundamental metaphysical nature/essence of reality)

Conceptual Purification (All Types [Concept Type 1]; Elemental Powers can purify beings and remove dark matter, which poisions and siphons the mind, body and spirit at a conceptual level. It can also transform life beings into zombies and is stated to be corruption itself.)

Similar to Spinjitzu neither of these are direct conceptual manipulation but rather they are altering and shifting the balance by making evil or good more common and spreading it in the world otherwise we should grant everyone in the verse who has purification or corruption conceptual manipulation which wouldn't make sense.

Also even if we assume that it's directly affecting the balance directly how does that mean that it conceptually affects the aspects others? These are two different concepts.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

This shouldn't grant conceptual manipulation as the Spinjitzu user isn't directly manipulating/altering the balance but rather the balance is being altered indirectly as a consequence of the user doing evil actions. The case is similar for the shatterspin and for forbidden Spinjitzu.
This should more so be Berserk Mode as the way it's currently written implies that the aura induces rage on others when it only affects the user.

Similar to Spinjitzu neither of these are direct conceptual manipulation but rather they are altering and shifting the balance by making evil or good more common and spreading it in the world otherwise we should grant everyone in the verse who has purification or corruption conceptual manipulation which wouldn't make sense.

(This should be the case for FSM & Overlord too except destroying Balance and this'd also drop Concept to Type 2 but that's for a separate CRT)

 

[VladimirMakarov317]

This shouldn't grant conceptual manipulation as the Spinjitzu user isn't directly manipulating/altering the balance but rather the balance is being altered indirectly as a consequence of the user doing evil actions. The case is similar for the shatterspin and for forbidden Spinjitzu.
This should more so be Berserk Mode as the way it's currently written implies that the aura induces rage on others when it only affects the user.

Similar to Spinjitzu neither of these are direct conceptual manipulation but rather they are altering and shifting the balance by making evil or good more common and spreading it in the world otherwise we should grant everyone in the verse who has purification or corruption conceptual manipulation which wouldn't make sense.

(This should be the case for FSM & Overlord too except destroying Balance and this'd also drop Concept to Type 2 but that's for a separate CRT)

Shouldn't be an antifeat for Type 1 as everyone in ninjago is made of light and darkness similar to how every kingdom hearts character can effect the balance with their emotions as their hearts are made of light and darkness

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Balance is more like a law than actual Dark and Light itself. There is a reason why Overlord didn't see destruction of Balance through the lens of self-destruction.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Balance is more like a law than actual Dark and Light itself. There is a reason why Overlord didn't see destruction of Balance through the lens of self-destruction.

That's really not implied at all and disproved by Dark Island Triolgy

 

[VladimirMakarov317]

Balance is more like a law than actual Dark and Light itself. There is a reason why Overlord didn't see destruction of Balance through the lens of self-destruction.

Also want to add this scan on top of Lloyd's. Basically since everyone's nature in the universe is a mixture of Light and Darkness, Dark Matter has the ability to extinguish someone's Light so should have CM anyway (including Info2 now since it's accepted that Balance is both CM and Info2). So anyone who resists DM like EMs, can have resistance to CM1 and Info2

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

That's really not implied at all and disproved by Dark Island Triolgy

How do these scans say Balance literally consists of Dark and Light?

Balance is a law, not a literal mixture containing those.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

How do these scans say Balance literally consists of Dark and Light?

Wu litterally talks about the Dark part of the Balance overtaking Ninjago by referring it as the Darkness? It is explicitly stated that Light/Dark is the nature of the Universe itself

Balance is a law, not a literal mixture containing those.

Where is implied that the Balance is just a law? That's completly contradictory to the narratives of Overlord's existence as the source of evil and his role in the Balance as a whole

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Wu litterally talks about the Dark part of the Balance overtaking Ninjago by referring it as the Darkness?

This part is not in the scan you linked.

It is explicitly stated that Light/Dark is the nature of the Universe itself

Yes, the point is that it's not pure light or pure darkness, it's a mix of both in every creature, because of Balance. Not that literally every single person in Ninjago is a piece of Balance, that's absurd. Do you want to say Nelson is a conceptual being or something? Or FSM could create Balance in everyone but couldn't change Balance itself?

Where is implied that the Balance is just a law?

By its nature: it enforces Light & Dark always fighting and shifts whenever one is winning, but its destruction does not even mean death of even source of Evil i.e. Overlord. It always causes something to happen, not contains them.

That's completly contradictory to the narratives of Overlord's existence as the source of evil and his role in the Balance as a whole

It actually isn't, Overlord plans to destroy Balance in Crystalized, calling it a reason why his plans always fail. This means he is not a literal part of it.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Yes, the point is that it's not pure light or pure darkness, it's a mix of both in every creature, because of Balance.

No, the point is that the Universe itself is affected by the Balance between Good and Evil, which is supported in other scans and said again by Wu

Not that literally every single person in Ninjago is a piece of Balance, that's absurd. Do you want to say Nelson is a conceptual being or something?

The scan does not imply that everyone is a conceptual being. This part merely talked about the good and evil within people, then later on was talking about the Universe on a fundamental level

Or FSM could create Balance in everyone but couldn't change Balance itself?

How does that prove it is law?

By its nature: it enforces Light & Dark always fighting and shifts whenever one is winning, but its destruction does not even mean death of even source of Evil i.e. Overlord. It always causes something to happen, not contains them.

Just because the Light/Dark side are fighting doesn't mean that the Balance cannot contain them (not only that, but Nya litterally describes it as the Balance of Light and Dark)

It actually isn't, Overlord plans to destroy Balance in Crystalized, calling it a reason why his plans always fail. This means he is not a literal part of it.

Just because Overlord planned to destroy the Balance doesn't prove he is not part of it, as he wants his side to reign/win and was visually depicted to be part of it. The sole reason FSM contributed in the creation of the Balance was fundamentaly due to the fact he realised one side cannot rule entirely without creating an imbalance. Its also stated he exists to counterbalance the light and the goodness and exists as Darkness, which Misako herself supports

Misako: But you've only heard half of it. In Ninjago, there has always been balance between good and evil. So you know about how the First Spinjitzu Master created Ninjago, but what if I were to tell you in order for there to be light, there must be shadow, and within shadow, there is darkness. The blackest of darkness that existed from the very beginning. An evil spirit called "The Overlord."

 

[Dark_Shadow-34513]

Given that Balance has been accepted as info 2, will spinjitzu, shaderspin, and FS have passive info 2?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

No, the point is that the Universe itself is affected by the Balance between Good and Evil, which is supported in other scans and said again by Wu

Cool, except I’m not denying that. Type 2 Concepts can absolutely govern their reality, it is in fact in their definition. The point is that they are not independent from it.

How does that prove it is law?

What is Balance anyways? Right, a conceptual force that makes Evil and Good never win against each other, and if one Realm falls another does so too. Textbook law.

Just because the Light/Dark side are fighting doesn't mean that the Balance cannot contain them

You are either deliberately ignoring or just missing the point. The point is that Overlord would have to commit suicide to destroy Balance according to your version, yet he is sure that Darkness will prevail and benefit from destruction of Balance.

Unless he is just stupid and we put him at Below Average Intelligence.

(not only that, but Nya litterally describes it as the Balance of Light and Dark)

This doesn't imply that it contains them, it just states that Balance applies to Dark and Light. Just like phrase "Law of Gravity" does not mean that said law literally physically contains gravity, or "checks and balances of Congress, Supreme Court and President" does not mean that there are literally checks and balances literally containing president, congress, and supreme court, etc.

Just because Overlord planned to destroy the Balance doesn't prove he is not part of it, as he wants his side to reign/win and was visually depicted to be part of it.

Your conclusion contradicts the hypothesis lol. If he wants his side to win, it is impossible if he is part of Balance and destroys it. If A is part of B and B ceased to exist, A ceased to exist too. Now put Overlord into A and Balance into B.

The sole reason FSM contributed in the creation of the Balance was fundamentaly due to the fact he realised one side cannot rule entirely without creating an imbalance.

Exactly. Balance prevented FSM from creating imbalanced world. I.e. a law.

Its also stated he exists to counterbalance the light and the goodness and exists as Darkness, which Misako herself supports

How does this support your point? Idk.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Cool, except I’m not denying that. Type 2 Concepts can absolutely govern their reality, it is in fact in their definition. The point is that they are not independent from it.

What is Balance anyways? Right, a conceptual force that makes Evil and Good never win against each other, and if one Realm falls another does so too. Textbook law.

If the 1st part was true, then it would've balanced the world as soon as someone shifted it

You are either deliberately ignoring or just missing the point. The point is that Overlord would have to commit suicide to destroy Balance according to your version, yet he is sure that Darkness will prevail and benefit from destruction of Balance.


Unless he is just stupid and we put him at Below Average Intelligence.

That's not even what I said?

as he wants his side to reign/win

He also planned on not destroying the Ninja, but corrupting the other side as a whole

Wu: How could I have been such a fool? The Overlord doesn't want to destroy you. He wants to corrupt the powers of Creation

Even if he can destroy the Realms, he lives beyond them and won't even be affected by their destruction all

None of that proves the supposed Balance law itself will stop him, bc it never did and required direct intervention from the Ninjas

This doesn't imply that it contains them, it just states that Balance applies to Dark and Light. Just like phrase "Law of Gravity" does not mean that said law literally physically contains gravity, or "checks and balances of Congress, Supreme Court and President" does not mean that there are literally checks and balances literally containing president, congress, and supreme court, etc.

I really don't see how your argument proves the Balance doesn't contain those 2 concepts. Still ignoring visual depiction as well

Your conclusion contradicts the hypothesis lol. If he wants his side to win, it is impossible if he is part of Balance and destroys it. If A is part of B and B ceased to exist, A ceased to exist too. Now put Overlord into A and Balance into B.

He doesn't want to destroy his side tho? He clearly want it to govern instead

Exactly. Balance prevented FSM from creating imbalanced world. I.e. a law.

You are contradicting yourself here. You claim the Balance prevented FSM to create imbalance in the world, but in reality he already imbalanced the world when the other fundamental part (The Dark) pulled up and the other side was able to shift the Balance entirely to his side, which would be impossible if the Balance can supposively control and make the world Balance once shifted on its own

How does this support your point? Idk.

It proves Overlord is part of the Balance?

 

[VladimirMakarov317]

Bump