DBZ Kai Upgrade (3-B/3-A Cell)

[StarShooter80]

(Just to make it more clear, this CRT is based off the Kai/DBS Anime continuity of Dragon Ball, NOT the manga or Toei continuities)

In Dragon Ball Z Kai Cell is stated twice to be capable of destroying the universe, with the first instance being originally from the manga and the second being anime original. How it differs is that these statements are re-iterated and confirmed to be correct (rather than being hyperbolic claims or the characters in question not being knowledgable enough to make the claim) by Toei's DBZ Kai website verbatim.

Statements​

Android 16 makes the statement that Cell's goal is no longer to kill Goku but to destroy the entire universe, after he achieves his Perfect form:

Toei's DBZ Kai site reiterates this and essentially confirms 16's prediction to be true:

Piccolo barely manages to stop Cell from absorbing No. 17. Piccolo explains that Cell's goal is to absorb and combine No. 17 and No. 18 into a perfect being. No. 17 refuses to be absorbed by Cell, so No. 16 yells at him to run. No. 16, equipped with a power radar, senses that Cell's fighting power far exceeds No. 17's. He also learns that his goal is not just to eliminate Goku, but to destroy the entire universe. Cell easily handles No. 17's attacks and Piccolo. The difference in their powers is such that No. 18 wonders if the two are holding back.

The Namekians feel the evil ki Cell is emanating all the way from Namek, and the elder Namekian states that the entire universe itself could be destroyed, not just Earth. This may also act as a pay off to 16's statement, building up Perfect Cell's strength:

Toei's DBZ Kai site reiterates this and also confirms the elder Namekian's statement to be true, saying that he predicted the collapse of the universe:

Cell uses his solar fist to blind everyone and finally succeeds in absorbing Android 18. As Cell transforms into his perfect form, enveloped in a ball of light, he radiates an evil aura that covers the sky with dark clouds, causes the atmosphere to tremble, the seas to churn, and storms to rage. News of this reaches the planet far from Earth, where the Namekians live, and the Elder Eldest and Dende foresee the collapse of the entire universe. The ball of light deflects Trunks' attack. Krillin and Android 16 can only watch helplessly. Piccolo is overcome with despair as he explains the situation to Bulma. Then Cell, now in his perfect form, appears before everyone.

Quantification​

It's never implied this feat would be something done overtime, though not necessarily instantaneous either, so we'll just assume either end.

1. Instantaneous​

Attack Potency: Universe level, duh.

2. Overtime​

Assuming this feat is being done overtime, we'll need to estimate Cell's life-span for that. The absolute oldest Cell could live is around 500 years, due to his Namekian DNA, with Guru (the oldest known Namekian in the series) living up till that much. And Cell has already aged 6 years by this point so that'd make it 494 years. Guru is definitely older than the average Namekian, with the likes of Kami already being in his elder years, who is only over 300 years old.

Attack Potency: Same method as this calc. Energy required to destroy the Universe = 2.825x10^92 Joules. 494 years in seconds is 15576000000. 2.825x10^92 / 15576000000 = 1.8136877e+82 Joules/181.36877 Million QuettaFoe (Multi-Galaxy level)

Speed: Diameter of the universe is 93.016 billion light years. 93.016 billion light years / 494 years = 188.4537068640999496 Million c (Massively FTL+)

The math for this has already been accepted in this blog.

Votes (Only Counting Staff)​

Agree: Planck69 (3-A), Qawsedf234 (Just speed)

Disagree: Damage3245 (Both 3-B and 3-A), Qawsedf234 (Both 3-B and 3-A)

Neutral:

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Oh boy

 

[Damage3245]

Assuming this feat is being done overtime, we'll need to estimate Cell's life-span for that. The absolute oldest Cell could live is around 500 years, due to his Namekian DNA, with Guru (the oldest known Namekian in the series) living up till that much. And Cell has already aged 6 years by this point so that'd make it 494 years. Guru is definitely older than the average Namekian, with the likes of Kami already being in his elder years, who is only over 300 years old.

Is Cell ever stated to be limited in lifespan to the same extent as the DNA samples that were contributed to creating him?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Wouldn't the size of Dragon Ball's Universe massively upgrade the feat/calculation. And keep in mind, I know we accept "Universe being infinite in size" for Toei Anime, but forgot if we did for Manga or by extension Kai and each of the respective versions of DBS. But if we did, it would just make the feat High 3-A if we were to take the statement at face value.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Wouldn't the size of Dragon Ball's Universe massively upgrade the feat/calculation. And keep in mind, I know we accept "Universe being infinite in size" for Toei Anime, but forgot if we did for Manga or by extension Kai and each of the respective versions of DBS. But if we did, it would just make the feat High 3-A if we were to take the statement at face value.

Infinite universe just toei only it is not accepted for manga,kai or DBS

But you are right the size of the universe should upscale the Calc but i don't think cell can destroy the entire macrocosms here

 

[StarShooter80]

Is Cell ever stated to be limited in lifespan to the same extent as the DNA samples that were contributed to creating him?

No? He's still a being made up of the cells of those characters, it's the only way to estimate his life span at the upmost. Cell's never implied to have a greater life-span to the cells part of him, or have an eternal one either. Also how did you reply so fast

Wouldn't the size of Dragon Ball's Universe massively upgrade the feat/calculation. And keep in mind, I know we accept "Universe being infinite in size" for Toei Anime, but forgot if we did for Manga or by extension Kai and each of the respective versions of DBS. But if we did, it would just make the feat High 3-A if we were to take the statement at face value.

Yes it would upgrade Cell to High 3-A, however we don't currently accept infinite universe for any continuity outside Toeiverse and the games.

I don't think we assume the finite living universe of DB to be any greater in size than the observable universe, just the otherworld and kaioshin realms.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We still have the part of "Observable Universe is considered a spec compared to the overall size of Universe 7's physical Universe alone." To which, it was where we originally had the 40x baseline 3-A for destroying physical universe and excluding things like Afterlife iirc.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

 

[StarShooter80]

We still have the part of "Observable Universe is considered a spec compared to the overall size of Universe 7's physical Universe alone." To which, it was where we originally had the 40x baseline 3-A for destroying physical universe and excluding things like Afterlife iirc.

Honestly I haven’t seen this argument before, unless it’s based off the old calc of using the macrocosm illustration from the guides, and then measuring everything based off heaven’s size. Which we don’t accept anymore

 

[Plants_vs_zombies_fan101]

Interesting can't wait to see my goat get the perfect upgrade

 

[Hasty12345]

Since there’s far more evidence than the manga, I agree.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Honestly I haven’t seen this argument before, unless it’s based off the old calc of using the macrocosm illustration from the guides, and then measuring everything based off heaven’s size. Which we don’t accept anymore

That wasn't the sole detail, but there was a statement where in Dragon Ball's astronomy structure; Earth (And by extension the rest of the Observable Universe, which is the spherical observation from Earth based on 47 lightyear radius views) is located much closer to the edge of the universe than it is the center of the universe. Thus making the rest of the universe's overall size significantly larger. Perhaps the 40x physical universe or 200x overall size is hard to determine. But at bare minimum, having a diameter 2x longer would mean the AP feat to destroy everything 8x more at minimum. That, and ISL would start at Earth's location would ultimately have 3x radius minimum and by extension 27x AP at minimum.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

That wasn't the sole detail, but there was a statement where in Dragon Ball's astronomy structure; Earth (And by extension the rest of the Observable Universe, which is the spherical observation from Earth based on 47 lightyear radius views) is located much closer to the edge of the universe than it is the center of the universe. Thus making the rest of the universe's overall size significantly larger. Perhaps the 40x physical universe or 200x overall size is hard to determine. But at bare minimum, having a diameter 2x longer would mean the AP feat to destroy everything 8x more at minimum. That, and ISL would start at Earth's location would ultimately have 3x radius minimum and by extension 27x AP at minimum.

If someone attempts to upgrade the finite extent of the observable universe in the future (preferably using a lowball), it wouldn't be too difficult to update the AP value accounting for a new universe size. That's probably a discussion for another day though, unless Ed wants to make plans for that right now.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

So, I have a problem with the estimating his age by assuming it comes from his cells.

We know for a fact other Androids have longevity far beyond their cells, for example, 17 and 18 are stated to age slowly in the Full Color manga: Artificial Human arc:

Q #4: Do modified-human types like Artificial Humans No. 17 and No. 18 get stronger if they train?

A: Since they’re human-based, of course they can become even stronger if they train.

In the case of modified-human types like No. 17 and No. 18, since they’re human-based they can become stronger if they train. By the way, though they don’t need to eat, they do need to hydrate. Also, their cells deteriorate slowly, so they age slowly too.

And in the Android Saga, Android 20/Dr. Gero says the process gives Androids eternal life Dragon Ball Chapter 349/Z Chapter 155. It's also said in the original anime, let me see if it's in Kai episode 64....Yep. Right here.

And it's supported in the Daisenshuu:

"

Artificial Human No.18
An artificial human created by Doctor Gero
History:In the future where Goku died from his infectious disease, she and No.17 pushed the limits of evil and reduced the Earth to ruins. Trunks survived as a warrior, but when Gohan died even he could no longer see any escape, and so he used the time machine his mother Bulma created to go to a world where Goku was alive. Through this, a different future was created where Goku survived. Having powered up, Trunks then returned and defeated No.18. In the world of the present she marries Krillin, and gives birth to a daughter named Marron. She’s the mightiest of wives: extremely beautiful, strong, and eternally youthful. She and No.17 are actually twin siblings.

and

Artificial Human No.20
His true identity is Doctor Gero
History:Known as a mad scientist, he was employed by the Red Ribbon Army. Even after the army’s destruction, he immersed himself in developing artificial humans in order to get revenge on Goku.
First Appearance: chapter 337
Special Characteristics: This is Doctor Gero’s form after he restructured himself into an artificial human to gain eternal life. Though he’s stronger than No.19, he’s still considerably inferior to No.17 and No.18. Even so, Doctor Gero is truly a genius, familiar with everything from cutting-edge mechatronics to biotechnology.

So, seeing as Cell is made from at least two people who have no known end cap on their lives, the idea he is limited to Namekian biology is a little flawed.

 

[StarShooter80]

That's probably a discussion for another day though, unless Ed wants to make plans for that right now.

That's another whole separate topic and it goes on to impact other things like the afterlife size I think, I'd rather not focus that on this thread for now, I doubt the tiers would change either just the pure numbers in joules.

So, I have a problem with the estimating his age by assuming it comes from his cells.

We know for a fact other Androids have longevity far beyond their cells, for example, 17 and 18 are stated to age slowly in the Full Color manga: Artificial Human arc:





And in the Android Saga, Android 20/Dr. Gero says the process gives Androids eternal life Dragon Ball Chapter 349/Z Chapter 155. It's also said in the original anime, let me see if it's in Kai episode 64....Yep. Right here.

And it's supported in the Daisenshuu:

"

and


So, seeing as Cell is made from at least two people who have no known end cap on their lives, the idea he is limited to Namekian biology is a little flawed.

Cell absorbing the androids doesn't mean that he gains the machinery that offers these perks for combating deteriorating aging, he's still a fully biological being with none of the cybernetic parts of 17 and 18, he doesn't even gain their infinite energy/stamina reserves as we see him physically become exhausted and loose energy in his perfect form.

The first statement also just makes the other statement for 18 seemingly hyperbolic since it does imply the androids do age just at a slower rate, in contrast to not physically aging at all. Gero's statement does straight up mean eternal life but he's a different type of Android from 17/18, being fully mechanical.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

That's another whole separate topic and it goes on to impact other things like the afterlife size I think, I'd rather not focus that on this thread for now, I doubt the tiers would change either just the pure numbers in joules.

Cell absorbing the androids doesn't mean that he gains the machinery that offers these perks for combating deteriorating aging, he's still a fully biological being with none of the cybernetic parts of 17 and 18, he doesn't even gain their infinite energy/stamina reserves as we see him physically become exhausted and loose energy in his perfect form.

The first statement also just makes the other statement for 18 seemingly hyperbolic since it does imply the androids do age just at a slower rate, in contrast to not physically aging at all. Gero's statement does straight up mean eternal life but he's a different type of Android from 17/18, being fully mechanical.

So, the issue with that is, the androids are bio-organic, with only the Eternal Energy Engine, the control device, and the self destruct being mechanical, down to their very cells.

It also doesn't really make sense for him to say he wanted Eternal Life and then disclude the others, as logically, he'd have to have made them immortal/slow aged to see it was possible.

So again, if he already mastered giving people eternal life via bio-organic cell manipulation, and then made Cell, it's more likely Cell is also immortal than not.

Also, brief correction. Android 20 is a mixed type, biotechnological and mechanical, unlike a fully mechanical one like android 19

From the Character Directory Reputation files: It lists him as a different type than the purely mechanical 16 and 19



Artificial Human No.16
An artificial human made by Doctor Gero
History:A mechanical type, and an eternal model
First Appearance: chapter 350
Special Characteristics: The strongest artificial human besides Cell. However, he has a gentle heart, and doesn’t like to hurt things. Because of this, Doctor Gero regarded him as a failed creation. His gives the impression of a taciturn, silent giant. He resembles No.8 in his gentleness, but is forever faithful to his duty to kill Goku.
Techniques:Rocket Punch, Hell’s Flash, Eye Beam, self-destruction, etc
Battles: During the Cell Games battle, he was destroyed by Cell, but his tragic end became the trigger for Gohan awakening to Super Saiyan 2. (Daizenshuu 2, p.176/Daizenshuu 4, p.159)
Anime: Artificial Human No.16 appeared hiding many mysteries. He didn’t participate when Vegeta and the others fought No.17 and No.18, and just played with the baby birds the entire time.

Artificial Human No.17
An artificial human created by Doctor Gero
History:He used to be a human.
First Appearance: chapter 349
Special Characteristics: An artificial human who is a modified human boy. Equipped with an eternal energy engine, he never tires out. Though he likes to fight, he always thinks of battles as games. His power is on par with Piccolo after Piccolo merged with God, but like No.18, the original purpose for which he was created was as food to allow Cell to reach his perfect form. Also, the No.17 and No.18 in the future where the adult Trunks came from are somewhat inferior in power, but are cruel and inhumane. (Daizenshuu 2, p.176/Daizenshuu 4, p.160)
Techniques:Barrier, etc
Battles: He faced off against first-form Cell, but was caught off guard and absorbed.
Anime: The inhumane artificial humans are depicted in “Resistance to Despair!! The Remaining Super Warriors, Gohan and Trunks”. (Daizenshuu 6, p.170)

Artificial Human No.18
An artificial human created by Doctor Gero
History:In the future where Goku died from his infectious disease, she and No.17 pushed the limits of evil and reduced the Earth to ruins. Trunks survived as a warrior, but when Gohan died even he could no longer see any escape, and so he used the time machine his mother Bulma created to go to a world where Goku was alive. Through this, a different future was created where Goku survived. Having powered up, Trunks then returned and defeated No.18. In the world of the present she marries Krillin, and gives birth to a daughter named Marron. She’s the mightiest of wives: extremely beautiful, strong, and eternally youthful. She and No.17 are actually twin siblings.
First Appearance: chapter 349
Special Characteristics: An eternal model type equipped with an eternal energy engine, and made with a human as a base. She’s the only female out of all the artificial humans. She has a habit of running her hands through her short, blond hair. She’s a beautiful girl, but has a harsh personality, hating unfashionable things. (Daizenshuu 2, p.176)
Techniques:Kienzan, bullets of light, etc
Battles: She easily won in her battle with Krillin, Vegeta, and the others. She ran away from second-form Cell, but was absorbed and lost.
Tenkaichi Budoukai: During the 25th Tenkaichi Budoukai’s Battle Royale, she defeated Jewel with one kick, and exposed Mighty Mask’s true identity. In the finals, she lost to Mister Satan on purpose, demanding 20 million zeni, twice the prize money for winning the tournament. (Daizenshuu 4, p.123)
Anime: In “Resistance to Despair!! The Remaining Super Warriors, Gohan and Trunks”, she appeared as a cruel warrior. (Daizenshuu 6, p.170)

Artificial Human No.19
Doctor Gero’s creation
History:A completely artificial construct, and energy-absorbing model.
First Appearance: chapter 337
Special Characteristics: The artificial human with the highest degree of completion. However, because Gero returned to the old energy-absorbing model, his battle power is inferior to No.17 and No.18. He oversaw Doctor Gero’s restructuring into an artificial human. Though he’s completely mechanical, he can still feel fear.
Techniques:energy-absorption, etc
Battles: He defeated Goku, who had an infectious disease at the time, but was smashed to smithereens by Vegeta, who appeared next (Daizenshuu 4, p.159)
Anime: When firing a beam from his eyes, he flips his earring with his finger. However, it’s unclear whether or not this acts as a firing switch. Maybe it’s just a habit of his?

Artificial Human No.20
His true identity is Doctor Gero
History:Known as a mad scientist, he was employed by the Red Ribbon Army. Even after the army’s destruction, he immersed himself in developing artificial humans in order to get revenge on Goku.
First Appearance: chapter 337
Special Characteristics: This is Doctor Gero’s form after he restructured himself into an artificial human to gain eternal life. Though he’s stronger than No.19, he’s still considerably inferior to No.17 and No.18. Even so, Doctor Gero is truly a genius, familiar with everything from cutting-edge mechatronics to biotechnology.
Techniques:energy wave, energy-absorption
Battles: After being cornered by Piccolo, who had increased his power more than expected, he was ultimately killed by his own creation, No.17 (Daizenshuu 4, p. 159)
Anime: In “Extreme Battle!! The Three Great Super Saiyans”, No.20’s hatred transfers to his computer, and manufactures No.13 and co. (Daizenshuu 6, p.96)

 

[Keeweed]

For one: Android 18 and 17 aren’t immortal, very obviously not
Second the low ball is beyond generous. The statement is a matter of factual “he’ll do x” when has any writer ever meant that will be till the character literally dies of old age, especially over five centuries. In this context when he’s doing it to be petty, like why would I assume he’s literally going to kill himself (technically) over that. I think going with a simple “likely Universe level” makes way more sense and anything else is super pedantic (Stated multiple times to be able to destroy the universe, implied heavily to be in short order). An at least 3-B if you want to be super safe, but that’s so just there to be there it’s practically meaningless

 

[AerrowStorm1]

For one: Android 18 and 17 aren’t immortal, very obviously not
Second the low ball is beyond generous. The statement is a matter of factual “he’ll do x” when has any writer ever meant that will be till the character literally dies of old age, especially over five centuries. In this context when he’s doing it to be petty, like why would I assume he’s literally going to kill himself (technically) over that. I think going with a simple “likely Universe level” makes way more sense and anything else is super pedantic (Stated multiple times to be able to destroy the universe, implied heavily to be in short order). An at least 3-B if you want to be super safe, but that’s so just there to be there it’s practically meaningless

For one, we're not arguing they're unkillable, we're arguing they have longevity/don't die of natural causes. This is stated in the manga and in the guides.

For two, I'd treat it like the Freeza comments of Freeza destroying the universe: He's strong enough to destroy planets (solar systems here, when the Solar Kamehameha is his strongest attack ""Why think small? I have enough energy right now to annihilate your entire solar system!") and will be able to rampage throughout the universe and no one could stop him.

We saw the same in both the original Z and Kai with Freeza and the statements meant the same there.

I'm not saying it's not possible for this interpretation to be correct, I'm saying it'd be weird to accept "OK, his strongest attack with all his ki, using an ability that specifically boosts attack power, was solar system busting and we know previously they say 'destroy the universe' as in be the strongest guy and no one can stop you from lifewiping it' but this time it's literal.

 

[Keeweed]

As shown by the op the universe destroy statement is the intended statement for Kai, and I have no reason to assume the most convoluted roundabout way, when it’s a straight “he’ll do it”. It’s like if I said “I’m going to kill that guy” and taking it as me tearing him apart skin cell by skin cell till I die. Only versus battles reads statements this way. The safe end would still heavily lean towards 3-A
The androids aren’t immortal on our profiles so that is something you need to prove.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

As shown by the op the universe destroy statement is the intended statement for Kai, and I have no reason to assume the most convoluted roundabout way, when it’s a straight “he’ll do it”. It’s like if I said “I’m going to kill that guy” and taking it as me tearing him apart skin cell by skin cell till I die.
The androids aren’t immortal on our profiles so that is something you need to prove.

I...literally showed they are, for one.

For two, Kai LITERALLY has "destroy the universe" statements for Freeza and we treated it as him being a rampager.

And yes, if you say "I'm going to kill that guy" and your explict strongest attack can only kill a few cells at a time, then I'm going to assume that's what you meant. Prior status and context can change a statement, my friend.

 

[StarShooter80]

So, the issue with that is, the androids are bio-organic, with only the Eternal Energy Engine, the control device, and the self destruct being mechanical, down to their very cells.

It also doesn't really make sense for him to say he wanted Eternal Life and then disclude the others, as logically, he'd have to have made them immortal/slow aged to see it was possible.

Gero seeing if he could live forever by testing on the age regression on 17 and 18 just has no basis at all.

So again, if he already mastered giving people eternal life via bio-organic cell manipulation, and then made Cell, it's more likely Cell is also immortal than not.

Except he didn't, 17 and 18 are again only said to slow down in aging specifically, they aren't ever said to also have eternal life like Gero

Also, brief correction. Android 20 is a mixed type, biotechnological and mechanical, unlike a fully mechanical one like android 19

From the Character Directory Reputation files: It lists him as a different type than the purely mechanical 16 and 19

No where is he said to be a biotechnological he's just a cyborg with a fully mechanical body, he's even categorised the same as No. 20/16 in the Daizenshuu, which should be more relevant to Kai than this seemingly Toeiverse guide (that doesn't even contradict him from being the same kind as 20/16)

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Gero seeing if he could live forever by testing on the age regression on 17 and 18 just has no basis at all.

Except he didn't, 17 and 18 are again only said to slow down in aging specifically, they aren't ever said to also have eternal life like Gero

No where is he said to be a biotechnological he's just a cyborg with a fully mechanical body, he's even categorised the same as No. 20/16 in the Daizenshuu, which should be more relevant to Kai than this seemingly Toeiverse guide (that doesn't even contradict him from being the same kind as 20/16)

Um...friend?

The Daizenshuu has him as a mecha type then immediately contradicts it, which is why I said so

While it says "mecha type" at the top, it contradicts that in the actual description.
"Though HALF HIS BODY IS HUMAN, he has the same basic abilities as 19 (it says #20, but as he's #20, I assume it's a typo)

Also, the Daizenshuu lists Eight as a biotechnological type, but Akira Toriyama explictly says 8 was a full mechanical type.

And in the manga's data page it also lists 20 as a Cyborg type, same as 17 and 18.

So again, that's more evidence of my point than yours.

Additionally, again, 18 is stated to be Eternally Youthful, 20 is stated to have eternal life, and their cells don't age as fast so they either have immortal life, or an indeterminately High lifespan.

 

[StarShooter80]

Um...friend?

The Daizenshuu has him as a mecha type then immediately contradicts it, which is why I said so

While it says "mecha type" at the top, it contradicts that in the actual description.
"Though HALF HIS BODY IS HUMAN, he has the same basic abilities as 19 (it says #20, but as he's #20, I assume it's a typo)

Also, the Daizenshuu lists Eight as a biotechnological type, but Akira Toriyama explictly says 8 was a full mechanical type.

And in the manga's data page it also lists 20 as a Cyborg type, same as 17 and 18.

So again, that's more evidence of my point than yours.

Additionally, again, 18 is stated to be Eternally Youthful, 20 is stated to have eternal life, and their cells don't age as fast so they either have immortal life, or an indeterminately High lifespan.

You are generalizing this way too much, yes he, 17 and 18 are cyborgs but their builds are completely different with 17 and 18 being biomechanical and Gero being just mechanical. Android 8 being biomechanical is contentious but the rest are not at all contradictory.

And for the third time 17 and 18 are verbatim said to still age per Toriyama's statement just slowly, eternally youthful is just a hyperbole.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

So, I have a problem with the estimating his age by assuming it comes from his cells.

We know for a fact other Androids have longevity far beyond their cells, for example, 17 and 18 are stated to age slowly in the Full Color manga: Artificial Human arc:





And in the Android Saga, Android 20/Dr. Gero says the process gives Androids eternal life Dragon Ball Chapter 349/Z Chapter 155. It's also said in the original anime, let me see if it's in Kai episode 64....Yep. Right here.

And it's supported in the Daisenshuu:

"

and


So, seeing as Cell is made from at least two people who have no known end cap on their lives, the idea he is limited to Namekian biology is a little flawed.

Yes, the androids age slowly, but that scan you sent only demonstrates that Gero made his body because he wanted eternal life. Now in regards to Cell it is stated he has an infinite energy generator too, but he’s clearly not able to utilize it because he gets tired constantly in his fights within the Cell saga, so it doesn’t make sense for him to have infinite stamina.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Yes, the androids age slowly, but that scan you sent only demonstrates that Gero made his body because he wanted eternal life. Now in regards to Cell it is stated he has an infinite energy generator too, but he’s clearly not able to utilize it because he gets tired constantly in his fights within the Cell saga, so it doesn’t make sense for him to have infinite stamina.

I'm sorry? I do agree the Androids age slowly and have no observable end date, but I am confused about the energy generator comment, which wasn't part of my argument

 

[Gp972]

Agree

 

[Treeztarz]

i apologize if this is off topic or derailing (or answered somewhere else), but how would this even affect scaling if we don't have a verse page for Kai?

 

[Billybobjoe321]

i apologize if this is off topic or derailing (or answered somewhere else), but how would this even affect scaling if we don't have a verse page for Kai?

Kai is considered canon to the dbs anime.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Obviously disagree. No, I haven't read the arguments. I just want Cell to be permanently Solar System Level.
Jk, of course, but the math and argument looks solid to me

 

[StarShooter80]

i apologize if this is off topic or derailing (or answered somewhere else), but how would this even affect scaling if we don't have a verse page for Kai?

Kai's canon to the DBS anime. This affects ToP Tien, Roshi, and some minor ToP opponents into reaching this new tier

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Guru is definitely older than the average Namekian, with the likes of Kami already being in his elder years, who is only over 300 years old.

Kami arrived on Earth by Age 261 and "died" in Age 767. That would make him 506. People just forget that the Nameless Namekian just split off the evil inside him

Neutral about the CRT

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It sounds great

 

[TyranoDoom30]

It sounds great

It sounds like the cataclysm of universal statements scaling

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It sounds like the cataclysm of universal statements scaling

If the work contains quotes and statements about the destruction of the universe, it will work.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The main issue I see is that Cell has implications of immortality, we give him longevity as a power, and his regeneration would be powerful to let him more or less stay alive biologically forever.

I can see an implication that he can be a stronger level of 4-B, but unless the Kai universe has infinite matter I don't see this being anything more than maybe a speed upgrade.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

If the work contains quotes and statements about the destruction of the universe, it will work.

I mean, at least there's a calc trying to prove it instead of statements

 

[TyranoDoom30]

I can see an implication that he can be a stronger level of 4-B, but unless the Kai universe has infinite matter I don't see this being anything more than maybe a speed upgrade.

As of now, we don't accept the Kai/Super universe as infinite. This actually reminds me when people tried upgrading Kid Boo to Infinite speed because of that

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

The main issue I see is that Cell has implications of immortality, we give him longevity as a power, and his regeneration would be powerful to let him more or less stay alive biologically forever.

I can see an implication that he can be a stronger level of 4-B, but unless the Kai universe has infinite matter I don't see this being anything more than maybe a speed upgrade.

Can you show me what suggests that he has immortality because otherwise we should assume he has a frost demon or namekian lifespan.

 

[StarShooter80]

The main issue I see is that Cell has implications of immortality, we give him longevity as a power, and his regeneration would be powerful to let him more or less stay alive biologically forever.

I can see an implication that he can be a stronger level of 4-B, but unless the Kai universe has infinite matter I don't see this being anything more than maybe a speed upgrade.

We already take in the factor of longevity in the calculation for the 3-B stat, and also when has his regen been implied to keep him biologically alive forever, or any implication of eternal life?

 

[Damage3245]

I don't agree with the "over time" method. There is no suggestion that Cell plans to fire off Multi-Galaxy level attacks every second of his life, for the rest of his life, once he is through destroying the Earth. If Android 16 had said that was exactly Cell's plan, then it'd be a fair way of calculating it, but right now it is too speculative.