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The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

I personally find it reasonable for Cage, Rhino, and Sandman to be Town level, or at least City Block level, with Spider-Man defeating the last two, despite that they are repeatedly stated to be far more powerful, being perceived as plot convenience.
Spider man is the one who has most of the city block level and town level feats, his villains have some but he has more as far as I’m aware, also his villains are stronger than him but it’s not like their hundreds of times stronger him being able to somewhat harm them and be able to find ways to defeat them is just as consistent as them being stronger than him
 
I do not know. Maybe it is about how Alex Ross perceives Marvel as gradually turning from being mostly decent and coherent into a dark, amoral, and dystopian completely incoherent mess? 🙏
 
I do not know. Maybe it is about how Alex Ross perceives Marvel as gradually turning from being mostly decent and coherent into a dark, amoral, and dystopian completely incoherent mess? 🙏
Not everyone thinks marvel has become that bad,
I could be wrong but it seems like Alex Ross likes darker content and is trying to make a darker version of marvel stories
 
Maybe, or maybe he is attempting to illustrate what it feels like for more longterm Marvel Comics readers when everything turns from mostly positive aspirational to negative dark, morbid, amoral, and dystopian anti-aspirational. 🙏
 
Honestly, I blame Immortal Hulk. Written well but a bit too dark for my tastes.

And Krakoa. Stupid stupid Krakoa.
 
Krakoa is a part of it, but Jonathan Hickman and his likeminded writers have defiled and turned a large part of the characters disgustingly toxic and amoral, and the setting as a whole dystopian, nihilistic, and extremely incoherent, at this point. As far as I have observed, Hickman usually displays analytical intelligence combined with anti-idealistic and anti-spiritual realpolitik-obsessed ruthlessness without genuine wisdom, joy, conscience, hope, spirituality, empathy, and compassion, so I am definitely not a fan. Making him Marvel's head thematic storyline direction writer/consultant is almost like letting Lex Luthor write Superman comicbooks. It is an extremely bad thematic fit and destroys everything that gives the setting as a whole any aspirational and idealistic point. Instead it has mostly devolved into evil versus evil and sadistic might makes right powertripping gore.

However, Immortal Hulk wasn't a problem on an ethical level. It wasn't heartless, just rather dark and morbid. I have the impression that Al Ewing genuinely means well, even though he, like many other writers, seems to turn a blind eye towards Mystique, who, among other things, is a satanically evil hate-fuelled genocidal supremacist, a casually thrill-killing mass-murderer, an absolutely sadistic and treacherous liar and manipulator, a systematic thoroughly depraved serial-rapist who greatly enjoys defiling and degrading morally decent people, and a living embodiment of unchecked revelling in power-tripping to get away with any level of atrocity, just because she can... and the writers seems to do so simply because Mystique is a part of the LGBTQIA+ spectrum... which isn't remotely what tolerance and equality is supposed to be about. 🙏
 
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I have a genuine question about how Magic works in Marvel. Users of magic have Conceptual Manipulation due to magic being conceptual system that allows an individual to control natural world. Would it mean that every single spell that is done by using magic, no matter how minor, is implemented on conceptual level? If user of magic creates fire, does it mean it burns on conceptual level? I am a bit confused on how this works.
 
I have a genuine question about how Magic works in Marvel. Users of magic have Conceptual Manipulation due to magic being conceptual system that allows an individual to control natural world. Would it mean that every single spell that is done by using magic, no matter how minor, is implemented on conceptual level? If user of magic creates fire, does it mean it burns on conceptual level? I am a bit confused on how this works.
Magic as a whole is defined as a constant universal concept in Marvel so in a way, yes but I also see it as potency that scales with expertise, in that basic level magic users can manipulate the conceptual nature of magic in the universe to create fire or cast spells and perform inhuman feats in a supernatural way that isn't consistent with physical power or having a different kind of power source that amplifies all stats such as the Power Cosmic, and hence why a lot of magic users are glass canons. The more experienced you are with magic however, the more potent it becomes to where you can interact with truly conceptual embodiments like Eternity like when Dr. Strange performed surgery on him, something a basic magic user can't do.

This is just my view on it and there are more qualified contributors here who can elaborate better.
 
I have a genuine question about how Magic works in Marvel. Users of magic have Conceptual Manipulation due to magic being conceptual system that allows an individual to control natural world. Would it mean that every single spell that is done by using magic, no matter how minor, is implemented on conceptual level? If user of magic creates fire, does it mean it burns on conceptual level? I am a bit confused on how this works.
I think it depends, like if you use magic to create a normal fire then you were manipulating the concept of fire to make it but the fire itself is just a normal fire so wouldn’t burn on a conceptual level, but if you use magic to create a magical fire then since that fire’s magic it would have the standard properties of magic such as conceptual manipulation
 
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I have a genuine question about how Magic works in Marvel. Users of magic have Conceptual Manipulation due to magic being conceptual system that allows an individual to control natural world. Would it mean that every single spell that is done by using magic, no matter how minor, is implemented on conceptual level? If user of magic creates fire, does it mean it burns on conceptual level? I am a bit confused on how this works.
Magic works by altering the underlying fabric of Earth-616, and by making the universe bend to your will.

So to an extent, yes it does implement it on the conceptual level, especially as magic at its core is implementing a higher narrative into reality.
 
Honestly, I blame Immortal Hulk. Written well but a bit too dark for my tastes.

And Krakoa. Stupid stupid Krakoa.
Ehhh, I call this the Alan Moore [Watchmen, Killing Joke, etc] or Dark Knight Returns problem tbh. DKR is a bit a weird case because the author is unhinged, especially in the sequels.

This is on the same wavelength of the dumb executive decisions that lead to the "Edgy Dark Age of Comics". I enjoy the Immortal Hulk the same way I enjoyed Watchmen and DKR. But the trouble is when you have shitty corporate suits who take the wrong message from the success. If every comic is trying to be gritty then I can guarantee that 99% of the stories will be slop. It’s like trying to mass produce what made it unique without capturing the realm charm.
 
Just a note that the current She-Hulk comicbook has much better characterisation than I feared it would have. I thought that Hickman had an overarching plot that would turn She-Hulk much more ruthless and callous than previously, but that has not happened yet. The writer, Stephanie Phillips, gives me the impression of being a nice person who understands She-Hulk quite well.

Also, does anybody else suspect that the Odin that we currently see interacting with Loki in "The Mortal Thor" comicbook may be a construct by Utgard-Loki, given that it was prophesised to Thor that Odin would remain in Valhalla? 🙏
 
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Cower in fear, puny vermins, for the herald of the superior race has come to take you out of your misery.

 
Does anyone know why spider man is listed as a user of adhesive manipulation Here but he doesn’t have adhesive manipulation listed on his profile
 
I guess because his webs are labeled only as thread manipulation and not adhesive as well.
 
Wonder if this changes anything for 616 Earth's cosmology. There's even a duplicate Phoenix and Hela which implies that it's not just another Earth that came into existence.
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XMvQ6sX.jpeg
 
I have a question. Why doesn't Ultron-20 have a P&A key like his two other keys do? Does he not have more powers after getting his new body?
 
Wonder if this changes anything for 616 Earth's cosmology. There's even a duplicate Phoenix and Hela which implies that it's not just another Earth that came into existence.
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XMvQ6sX.jpeg
I think some of it is vague so far, but something interesting I noticed is that as your scans say, the universe expanding unusually is due to the events of Reckoning War. Referring to this note on the verse page:
We consider the part of the Marvel universe that is possible for characters to travel within to have been proven to be finite, and to at the very least have a radius of 1 trillion lightyears.

This is due to that it has very explicitly been established to have a border called The Crunch, to have a centre that Thanos was once transported to after being deprived of a cosmic cube, and to have been reduced to 1/10th of its original size during the Reckoning War storyline.
In the storyline, as far as I know, the universe being reduced by 9/10ths of its original size was actually some background information dating far before the original storyline, in the early stages of reality or something like that. The Watchers used to readily interact with other races and give them technology, which backfired when one alien race used the technology to wage war and take over the cosmos, until the Watchers created the Ultimate Nullifier to erase them and 9/10ths of "the universe," then became an eternally neutral/spectating race. The plot of the Reckoning War storyline was that the warmongering alien race returned with their Watcher technology, and waged a war so large-scale, it was killing Multi-Eternity, until they were defeated through the Ultimate Nullifier again, then Uatu absobred the knowledge of the Apex of All Reality to reverse the new damage they caused, and restore the original 9/10ths of the universe too.

All that context established, it's unclear what "universe" means in the sense of the original universe that was reduced to 1/10ths its size. The modern Reckoning War threatened Multiversal Eternity (although, that doesn't necessarily mean the original one was so large-scale), and the new scans make it explicitly clear that the restored "universe" spans alternate possibilities with their own versions of the Fantastic Four. Either way, it suggests that "universe" extends far beyond the spatial extent of the base universe, which means this likely isn't usable as an anti-feat for finite universe.
 
 
I replied. 🙏
 
 
Ok, so, in my research on Heralds, I've found that tons of them have Skyfather level feats. Thor, Hulk, Hercules, Sentry, and Thanos have a bunch, as I've mentioned before. Talking with @Eseseso, he mentioned a few potential Skyfather feats for Silver Surfer. The Marvel wiki lists a few indicating that Gladiator scales that high, which I will have to look into.

I know this is extremely controversial and I really hate it, but imo it's really starting to look like a lot of Heralds should maybe be 1-A...

Yes, Thor is sometimes indicated to be vastly more powerful than Herald Tiers, most notably in Blood and Thunder. The problem, though, is basically all of these characters have moments that imply they are stronger than everyone else, and almost all of them have Varies mechanics that could explain these discrepancies.

I just don't know how to square this. Like it feels very off for any of these characters to be Outerversal, I very strongly doubt the authorial intent. But, at the same time, I do think it was definitely the authorial intent for all of these characters to be equal to each other, and that it was at least some of the time the authorial intent to have them be able to hold their own against Skyfather Tier characters. What do we do?
 
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I just don't know how to square this. Like it feels very off for any of these characters to be Outerversal, I very strongly doubt the authorial intent. But, at the same time, I do think it was definitely the authorial intent for all of these characters to be equal to each other, and that it was at least some of the time the authorial intent to have them be able to hold their own against Skyfather Tier characters. What do we do?
Authorial intent is much harder to determine then what happens in the comics and also authorial intent is even more self contradictory then the comics are so it makes more sense to judge stuff based on what’s in the comics not authorial intent, anyways I think that it’s a case by case basis for what we do since every herald tier character is different and every skyfather tier feat is different
 
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