Town-level Tiersetter Tournament, Round 10: Mash Burnedead vs Ye Shunguang

[Naito-desu]

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STAGE SELECT: BEACON ACADEMY

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MATCH RULES

• Speed is equalized by default
• Both start 50 meters apart in the center, SBA otherwise
• Rules are subject to changes on a per-match basis to make them fairer or more interesting
• If a match is deemed inconclusive, the advancement will be decided on a coin toss.
• If a match is stalled due to a lack of votes, the host may declare an outcome at their discretion. These decisions are only for tournament purposes, not for profile additions.

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Mash Burnedead {31 kilotons}: 0

Ye Shunguang {10.68 kilotons}: 0

Incon: 0

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Ooooh, I've been waiting for this one.

So anyways, once again, Mash has around a 3x AP advantage over Shunguang, and a casual one at that, meaning if he gets close, she's going to be in for a world of pain (didn't I say this with Arthur last time? Go figure.) However, as I read from the last match involving Shunguang, she can not only amplify her own attacks by like, double(?), but also cut enemy defenses down by like what, 70%? That means that Shungyan can easily damage him (I think), but the same applies to Mash hurting her as I dont see any self buffs for defense. Talk about a glass canon am I right?

So what happens now? Simple, Mash gets close and gives her a good whalopping.

Yeah, Shunguang's deal isn't really new to Mash, in fact he's toyed with those who've summoned swords before, usually using them to brush up on his bunting skills.


That's not all, but he's also dealt with those who specialize in danmaku involving sharp projectiles, simply calling Cell War's carbo-rain "played out" and easily avoiding them. When it comes to an advanced level of this kind of magic? He avoids each and every one of his blades, before running around the area at top speeds to trick him into thinking he was running away. Evidently this was not the case, only a ploy to get behind and put him into one of his signature Muscle Magic skills: Biceps Magic - Python Choke



Python Choke is a skill where Mash capitalizes on his massive LS, getting the opponent into a choke hold and instantly flexing his biceps, expelling all air and inducing hypoxia in a near instant.

Another thing Mash has that helps fight against the swords is his own form of weaponry, his Iron rod. Its as literal as it is, and what's more is that he can take it and stretch it into weaponry, such as an iron baseball bat.

And to help against spatial slashes, Mash's inhuman instincts take to the field. Beast-like, he can sense incoming danger such as imminent death despite not having a clue on what he's sensing is, and can sense the danger emanating from dangerous enemies.

 

[Thunderman101]

Ooooh, I've been waiting for this one.

So anyways, once again, Mash has around a 3x AP advantage over Shunguang, and a casual one at that, meaning if he gets close, she's going to be in for a world of pain (didn't I say this with Arthur last time? Go figure.) However, as I read from the last match involving Shunguang, she can not only amplify her own attacks by like, double(?), but also cut enemy defenses down by like what, 70%? That means that Shungyan can easily damage him (I think), but the same applies to Mash hurting her as I dont see any self buffs for defense. Talk about a glass canon am I right?

So what happens now? Simple, Mash gets close and gives her a good whalopping.

Yeah, Shunguang's deal isn't really new to Mash, in fact he's toyed with those who've summoned swords before, usually using them to brush up on his bunting skills.


That's not all, but he's also dealt with those who specialize in danmaku involving sharp projectiles, simply calling Cell War's carbo-rain "played out" and easily avoiding them. When it comes to an advanced level of this kind of magic? He avoids each and every one of his blades, before running around the area at top speeds to trick him into thinking he was running away. Evidently this was not the case, only a ploy to get behind and put him into one of his signature Muscle Magic skills: Biceps Magic - Python Choke



Python Choke is a skill where Mash capitalizes on his massive LS, getting the opponent into a choke hold and instantly flexing his biceps, expelling all air and inducing hypoxia in a near instant.

Another thing Mash has that helps fight against the swords is his own form of weaponry, his Iron rod. Its as literal as it is, and what's more is that he can take it and stretch it into weaponry, such as an iron baseball bat.

And to help against spatial slashes, Mash's inhuman instincts take to the field. Beast-like, he can sense incoming danger such as imminent death despite not having a clue on what he's sensing is, and can sense the danger emanating from dangerous enemies.

leaning mash but ill wait for zzz suporters

 

[Sooshirohl]

commenting so i can follow the thread but i'll make a response later when i get the chance

 

[Epiccheev]

For now leaning heavily towards "Composite Athleticism, the character" due to AverageUsername's reasons

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Ooooh, I've been waiting for this one.

So anyways, once again, Mash has around a 3x AP advantage over Shunguang, and a casual one at that, meaning if he gets close, she's going to be in for a world of pain (didn't I say this with Arthur last time? Go figure.) However, as I read from the last match involving Shunguang, she can not only amplify her own attacks by like, double(?), but also cut enemy defenses down by like what, 70%? That means that Shungyan can easily damage him (I think), but the same applies to Mash hurting her as I dont see any self buffs for defense. Talk about a glass canon am I right?

So what happens now? Simple, Mash gets close and gives her a good whalopping.

Yeah, Shunguang's deal isn't really new to Mash, in fact he's toyed with those who've summoned swords before, usually using them to brush up on his bunting skills.


That's not all, but he's also dealt with those who specialize in danmaku involving sharp projectiles, simply calling Cell War's carbo-rain "played out" and easily avoiding them. When it comes to an advanced level of this kind of magic? He avoids each and every one of his blades, before running around the area at top speeds to trick him into thinking he was running away. Evidently this was not the case, only a ploy to get behind and put him into one of his signature Muscle Magic skills: Biceps Magic - Python Choke



Python Choke is a skill where Mash capitalizes on his massive LS, getting the opponent into a choke hold and instantly flexing his biceps, expelling all air and inducing hypoxia in a near instant.

Another thing Mash has that helps fight against the swords is his own form of weaponry, his Iron rod. Its as literal as it is, and what's more is that he can take it and stretch it into weaponry, such as an iron baseball bat.

And to help against spatial slashes, Mash's inhuman instincts take to the field. Beast-like, he can sense incoming danger such as imminent death despite not having a clue on what he's sensing is, and can sense the danger emanating from dangerous enemies.

Oh yeah, I was getting ready for work so I forgot the video, but here's Mash avoiding homing blades

 

[Sooshirohl]

alright, my bad for the late response

so, starting out, obviously mash has a massive stat advantage here. he's roughly 3x stronger AP wise, and he's ludicrously stronger in LS. suffice to say, if he manages to get in close on shunguang, it's not going to be good for her at all. she might be able to close that AP gap with her various ways of boosting her damage, and she has ways of negating mash's resistance/durability, but the LS gap is something she can't really contend with, and given that mash seems to be very prone to going for things like restraining/chokeholds, i think if mash manages to get his hands on her she's kind of cooked

considering the starting distance, and the stage itself, this does actually give shunguang a pretty good advantage in the early game. the wide expansive area lets her float up and start her danmaku spam immediately, which means mash is gonna be forced to go straight to her. now, from the examples listed above, mash does seem to at least have experience against danmaku users, so the massive rain of swords aren't going to be something that catch him off guard, but...

Yeah, Shunguang's deal isn't really new to Mash, in fact he's toyed with those who've summoned swords before, usually using them to brush up on his bunting skills.


That's not all, but he's also dealt with those who specialize in danmaku involving sharp projectiles, simply calling Cell War's carbo-rain "played out" and easily avoiding them. When it comes to an advanced level of this kind of magic? He avoids each and every one of his blades, before running around the area at top speeds to trick him into thinking he was running away. Evidently this was not the case, only a ploy to get behind and put him into one of his signature Muscle Magic skills: Biceps Magic - Python Choke

gonna be honest, i think these examples of sword summoning/danmaku really pale in comparison to what shunguang dishes out. i mentioned this in the isamu debate, but again, shunguang's danmaku isn't just a light rain of a couple dozen or even a few hundred swords, it's quite literally thousands. and considering the openness of the stage, it means mash kinda has no real choice but to face them directly head on.

i don't think the danmaku would slow him down entirely, but i do think it makes it harder for him to close the distance between himself and shunguang, though not impossible. his AP advantage means he'd likely be able to just deflect a lot of the swords being thrown at him, and even if he gets hit by a few, he should be tanky enough to just fight through them even if he gets turned into a pincushion.

mash obviously has ways of closing the distance between him and shunguang, but i think she still has ways of defending herself in the event mash gets close enough to her, namely her IA and vital view. vital view is kind of going to be carrying shunguang here, since it gives her ample time to react to mash's advances to either make more space between them or to counterattack.

speaking of counterattack, the big elephant in the room here is shunguang's spatial attacks, which should be able to just one shot mash if she manages to land them. obviously, way easier said than done, since mash has IA + enhanced senses that basically let him immediately sense a dangerous attack before it lands, but her charging up a spatial attack would be a good way to force him away, especially if he's in danger of getting close. though, i think there are two scenarios in which shunguang could land a spatial attack. the first is if it's chained with vital view, in which case the ridiculous perception amp i think just gives shunguang more than enough time to fire one off before mash can react, and the second is if she decides to just go hail mary and nuke the surrounding area in a massive AOE.

like i mentioned earlier, i do think if mash manages to get even a good hit on shunguang it's basically GGs, but i think she has ways to both spam her danmaku from a distance and keep her distance to slowly chip away at mash. the longer the fight goes on, the more shunguang's damage is going to ramp up, giving her the opportunity to close the AP gap and make her attacks actually dangerous, which would be pretty bad for mash. and there's still also the danger of her OHKOing him with a spatial cut, which i do think she could pull off with vital view or just by dropping the aforementioned massive AOE nuke

definitely don't think it'd be easy for her by any means, but i do think she could squeeze out a W here even with the stat disadvantage

 

[AnAverageUsername]

alright, my bad for the late response

No worries, most of us have lives

so, starting out, obviously mash has a massive stat advantage here. he's roughly 3x stronger AP wise, and he's ludicrously stronger in LS. suffice to say, if he manages to get in close on shunguang, it's not going to be good for her at all. she might be able to close that AP gap with her various ways of boosting her damage, and she has ways of negating mash's resistance/durability, but the LS gap is something she can't really contend with, and given that mash seems to be very prone to going for things like restraining/chokeholds, i think if mash manages to get his hands on her she's kind of cooked

Yeah, the boosts are good for her, but at the same time it's not going to help her take a hit is it? Last I checked her profile, she only has buffs pertaining to her offense and debuffs focused on reducing durability. If Mash gets in his hits, she might just end up folding like an omelet.

considering the starting distance, and the stage itself, this does actually give shunguang a pretty good advantage in the early game. the wide expansive area lets her float up and start her danmaku spam immediately, which means mash is gonna be forced to go straight to her. now, from the examples listed above, mash does seem to at least have experience against danmaku users, so the massive rain of swords aren't going to be something that catch him off guard, but...

Flight is also good for Shungyan, but Mash can also fly straight up to her by simply kicking his legs real fast.

gonna be honest, i think these examples of sword summoning/danmaku really pale in comparison to what shunguang dishes out. i mentioned this in the isamu debate, but again, shunguang's danmaku isn't just a light rain of a couple dozen or even a few hundred swords, it's quite literally thousands. and considering the openness of the stage, it means mash kinda has no real choice but to face them directly head on.

Oh I know that, these were examples going over how Mash has fought similar kits before, that its nothing new. Thus the "played out" comment. When dealing with bladed attacks, Mash isn't at all powerless, as not only is he extremely flexible as shown in the above video and this one

But he can also just.... flex hard enough to increase his density and resist slashes. And with the aforementioned metal rod, he can also do this

i don't think the danmaku would slow him down entirely, but i do think it makes it harder for him to close the distance between himself and shunguang, though not impossible. his AP advantage means he'd likely be able to just deflect a lot of the swords being thrown at him, and even if he gets hit by a few, he should be tanky enough to just fight through them even if he gets turned into a pincushion.

Yeah see, that's another thing that Mash is a beast at, just being an absolute tank. Kid once took a whole ass trident through the torso all the way through and just walked it off like it was nothing.

Another thing to consider is Mash using this danmaku to obscure his profile. If that happens, he's immediately slipping out of his Adler Robes in an instant as if he was still there, use his stealth, and get behind Shungyuan for a sneak attack.

This same character he's attacking could feel fights happening kilometers off, so Mash is one very stealthy lad.

mash obviously has ways of closing the distance between him and shunguang, but i think she still has ways of defending herself in the event mash gets close enough to her, namely her IA and vital view. vital view is kind of going to be carrying shunguang here, since it gives her ample time to react to mash's advances to either make more space between them or to counterattack.

This is where another one of Mash's Muscle Magic skills may come in handy. Despite being able to react to Mash previously, Lance here was unable to even react to Mash's Big Bang Dash.

or you know, use the aforementioned stealth

speaking of counterattack, the big elephant in the room here is shunguang's spatial attacks, which should be able to just one shot mash if she manages to land them. obviously, way easier said than done, since mash has IA + enhanced senses that basically let him immediately sense a dangerous attack before it lands, but her charging up a spatial attack would be a good way to force him away, especially if he's in danger of getting close. though, i think there are two scenarios in which shunguang could land a spatial attack. the first is if it's chained with vital view, in which case the ridiculous perception amp i think just gives shunguang more than enough time to fire one off before mash can react, and the second is if she decides to just go hail mary and nuke the surrounding area in a massive AOE.

Well in the first instance, im sure Mash's IA and ES would still help him. Being able to sense imminent death in regards to stuff he has no knowledge on is a big ass boon. The second option- hey wait why was I bombarded with gooner bait right after a cool fight scene... Anyways, again, Mash can run away with his Big Bang Dash, oooor which I find as a funnier option, dig deep into the ground and then pop back up when Shungyuang thinks the coast is clear to pull her down into the dirt.

like i mentioned earlier, i do think if mash manages to get even a good hit on shunguang it's basically GGs, but i think she has ways to both spam her danmaku from a distance and keep her distance to slowly chip away at mash. the longer the fight goes on, the more shunguang's damage is going to ramp up, giving her the opportunity to close the AP gap and make her attacks actually dangerous, which would be pretty bad for mash. and there's still also the danger of her OHKOing him with a spatial cut, which i do think she could pull off with vital view or just by dropping the aforementioned massive AOE nuke

The thing is, if the fight does drag on that long, then Shungyuan is going to be faced with an even more dangerous Mash. One of his best abilities is his ability to adapt and grow far stronger when faced with challenge, learning to find counterattacks to shut down his enemies. Hell, at the very least Mash can fight for 3 days straight if not a month as shown with his training arc, which involved him growing against a hundred knights, each one stronger than the last with a different kit to force him to evolve.

definitely don't think it'd be easy for her by any means, but i do think she could squeeze out a W here even with the stat disadvantage

I do think it's a good fight, but I think Mash's athleticism and ability to grow and adapt catches him the win.

 

[Sooshirohl]

Yeah, the boosts are good for her, but at the same time it's not going to help her take a hit is it? Last I checked her profile, she only has buffs pertaining to her offense and debuffs focused on reducing durability. If Mash gets in his hits, she might just end up folding like an omelet.

yeah, it's not. it'll help her close the AP gap if the fight goes on for long enough, but it won't help her durability. she'll still take lethal damage if mash manages to land a hit on her, and she'll still be helpless if mash just puts her into a chokehold

Flight is also good for Shungyan, but Mash can also fly straight up to her by simply kicking his legs real fast.


Oh I know that, these were examples going over how Mash has fought similar kits before, that its nothing new. Thus the "played out" comment. When dealing with bladed attacks, Mash isn't at all powerless, as not only is he extremely flexible as shown in the above video and this one

But he can also just.... flex hard enough to increase his density and resist slashes. And with the aforementioned metal rod, he can also do this



Yeah see, that's another thing that Mash is a beast at, just being an absolute tank. Kid once took a whole ass trident through the torso all the way through and just walked it off like it was nothing.

Another thing to consider is Mash using this danmaku to obscure his profile. If that happens, he's immediately slipping out of his Adler Robes in an instant as if he was still there, use his stealth, and get behind Shungyuan for a sneak attack.

This same character he's attacking could feel fights happening kilometers off, so Mash is one very stealthy lad.

yeah, i'm not denying any of these. i don't think mash would have too much issue straight up facetanking the swords to close the distance between him and shunguang. i will at least say that from the looks of it, shunguang is probably more mobile than mash is in the air, but the fact that he can just fly up to her by kicking his feet really hard helps him close the distance.

the stealth mastery definitely seems like it'll be dangerous, especially given it seems to be able to catch other characters with enhanced senses/extrasensory perception off guard. obviously shunguang isn't just gonna stand there if mash suddenly disappears from sight, but it definitely gives him the chance to catch her off guard. her IA might be able to help her dodge a surprise ambush though, since it activates automatically, so that might give her enough time to either get away or counterattack if necessary

This is where another one of Mash's Muscle Magic skills may come in handy. Despite being able to react to Mash previously, Lance here was unable to even react to Mash's Big Bang Dash.

or you know, use the aforementioned stealth

big bang dash does seem like a pretty substantial speed amp but idk if it's substantial enough to overcome vital view's 34x perception amp. shunguang might still be able to react fast enough to dodge/counterattack even if he triggers it

Well in the first instance, im sure Mash's IA and ES would still help him. Being able to sense imminent death in regards to stuff he has no knowledge on is a big ass boon. The second option- hey wait why was I bombarded with gooner bait right after a cool fight scene... Anyways, again, Mash can run away with his Big Bang Dash, oooor which I find as a funnier option, dig deep into the ground and then pop back up when Shungyuang thinks the coast is clear to pull her down into the dirt.

classic ZZZ

anyways, i'm under the impression that mash is going to be in the air here, since shunguang obviously isn't going to just lower herself onto the ground especially if she's aware of how physically adept mash is. that would limit his movement options a lot. ik mash is ridiculous but idk if he can just straight up use something like big bang dash midair. assuming he's super high up in the air, he'd also have to force himself to basically drop all the way down into the ground if he wanted to dig underground to avoid shunguang's spatial attacks. regardless, my point is still that if he can sense the spatial attacks are dangerous enough to instantly kill him, he's basically forced to retreat and create space between the both of them, which is good for shunguang because obviously she wouldn't want mash getting close enough to grab her lol

The thing is, if the fight does drag on that long, then Shungyuan is going to be faced with an even more dangerous Mash. One of his best abilities is his ability to adapt and grow far stronger when faced with challenge, learning to find counterattacks to shut down his enemies. Hell, at the very least Mash can fight for 3 days straight if not a month as shown with his training arc, which involved him growing against a hundred knights, each one stronger than the last with a different kit to force him to evolve.

mash should outlast shunguang in an overall battle of attrition yeah, although to be fair, shunguang also has AD. granted from the looks of it, it's not nearly as potent as mash's is, but that coupled with her own ways of stacking damage should mean that she shouldn't be strutting too far behind him if the fight goes on. the fight becoming prolonged also gives shunguang more time to understand mash and set up for a potential win with a spatial cut. she'll probably realize pretty quickly that the guy is super physically adept and trying to get her into a CQC situation, so she'll do her best to keep her distance and avoid getting into that situation as much as possible.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

yeah, it's not. it'll help her close the AP gap if the fight goes on for long enough, but it won't help her durability. she'll still take lethal damage if mash manages to land a hit on her, and she'll still be helpless if mash just puts her into a chokehold


yeah, i'm not denying any of these. i don't think mash would have too much issue straight up facetanking the swords to close the distance between him and shunguang. i will at least say that from the looks of it, shunguang is probably more mobile than mash is in the air, but the fact that he can just fly up to her by kicking his feet really hard helps him close the distance.

He's mobile enough to fight like his usual self, but free flight is normally better than constant exertion

the stealth mastery definitely seems like it'll be dangerous, especially given it seems to be able to catch other characters with enhanced senses/extrasensory perception off guard. obviously shunguang isn't just gonna stand there if mash suddenly disappears from sight, but it definitely gives him the chance to catch her off guard. her IA might be able to help her dodge a surprise ambush though, since it activates automatically, so that might give her enough time to either get away or counterattack if necessary


big bang dash does seem like a pretty substantial speed amp but idk if it's substantial enough to overcome vital view's 34x perception amp. shunguang might still be able to react fast enough to dodge/counterattack even if he triggers it

See, these sorts of things are Mash's bread and butter. One of the best moments in Mashle (in my opinion) is when Mash is moments away from losing a fight against Margarette, whos about to get away, but by stretching to his limits he was able to use just his pinky to snag a bit of their clothing to pull them back in.

Even the tiniest of tiny grips means it's lights out for Shungyuang

classic ZZZ

anyways, i'm under the impression that mash is going to be in the air here, since shunguang obviously isn't going to just lower herself onto the ground especially if she's aware of how physically adept mash is. that would limit his movement options a lot. ik mash is ridiculous but idk if he can just straight up use something like big bang dash midair. assuming he's super high up in the air, he'd also have to force himself to basically drop all the way down into the ground if he wanted to dig underground to avoid shunguang's spatial attacks. regardless, my point is still that if he can sense the spatial attacks are dangerous enough to instantly kill him, he's basically forced to retreat and create space between the both of them, which is good for shunguang because obviously she wouldn't want mash getting close enough to grab her lol

You mentioned the sword danmaku before yeah? I was thinking that with all that surface area, Mash could use those swords as a platform to boost off of. Even if its a retreat in the end, it means he isn't going to die, and he'll have plenty of stamina left to spare.

How taxing are these explosions by the way? The video made it seem like she was out cold right after.

mash should outlast shunguang in an overall battle of attrition yeah, although to be fair, shunguang also has AD. granted from the looks of it, it's not nearly as potent as mash's is, but that coupled with her own ways of stacking damage should mean that she shouldn't be strutting too far behind him if the fight goes on. the fight becoming prolonged also gives shunguang more time to understand mash and set up for a potential win with a spatial cut. she'll probably realize pretty quickly that the guy is super physically adept and trying to get her into a CQC situation, so she'll do her best to keep her distance and avoid getting into that situation as much as possible.

Both grow at fast rates, they match eachothers flow. However, considering Mash's AD is based on him not just becoming stronger, but also for overcoming and nullifying enemy skills through dismantling their game plan, I'd give it to him in a prolonged fight.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

How it feels to seriously go band for band in a debate after not doing so for years

 

[Sooshirohl]

You mentioned the sword danmaku before yeah? I was thinking that with all that surface area, Mash could use those swords as a platform to boost off of. Even if its a retreat in the end, it means he isn't going to die, and he'll have plenty of stamina left to spare.

that's possible, although it's important to keep in mind that shunguang can control the swords with simple gestures. if she sees that he's using the swords to literally parkour, she could pretty easily just disperse them to make him lose his footing or something along those lines

How taxing are these explosions by the way? The video made it seem like she was out cold right after.

the canonicity of the video is admittedly a bit dubious, as the final words at the end of it seem to imply that the events of the character demo were a dream, but i don't think a lot of what's shown in the video strays too far from what shunguang is realistically capable of with the qingming sword. you can sorta take it as you will, but the spatial attacks have been shown to have pretty massive range and AOE both in game and in cutscenes anyways, so like i said, shouldn't be majorly different from what she's capable of in lore.

as for the exertion, by the end of 2.5's main story, plus following the events of the sword keeper chronicles event, shunguang has gotten a lot better at using the sword's abilities to the point where she can use it without getting hit super heavily by it's negative drawbacks. you could argue a big AOE nuke attack like that would probably still wear her down, but i don't think it'd straight up render her unconscious like in the demo especially with how much more she's grown accustomed to using the sword. she can still chain together regular spatial slashes just fine with no repercussions, so i'd say the AOE nuke would probably be the only thing that might wear her down heavily

Both grow at fast rates, they match eachothers flow. However, considering Mash's AD is based on him not just becoming stronger, but also for overcoming and nullifying enemy skills through dismantling their game plan, I'd give it to him in a prolonged fight.

i can agree with that yeah. i think both would probably start off growing at similar rates, but i think mash would probably just eventually overtake her in a prolonged battle given his pretty cracked ability to adapt to opponents. in that case i think a prolonged battle probably favors mash way more, especially with his superior stamina

i think mash's stealth is unironically the most dangerous thing in his kit that shunguang has to watch out for, and honestly i think the fight really might come down to the instance mash stealths away and jumps at her with a surprise attack. if she can dodge with IA she might be able to chain in VV fast enough to OHKO him with a spatial attack, otherwise mash just grabs her and proceeds to pummel her. shunguang basically has to end the fight as quickly as possible, because i definitely think a prolonged battle heavily favors mash if he eventually just adapts to the stuff he can throw at her

 

[AnAverageUsername]

that's possible, although it's important to keep in mind that shunguang can control the swords with simple gestures. if she sees that he's using the swords to literally parkour, she could pretty easily just disperse them to make him lose his footing or something along those lines

Still helpful in the end, it means he still has some initial extra footing to use

the canonicity of the video is admittedly a bit dubious, as the final words at the end of it seem to imply that the events of the character demo were a dream, but i don't think a lot of what's shown in the video strays too far from what shunguang is realistically capable of with the qingming sword. you can sorta take it as you will, but the spatial attacks have been shown to have pretty massive range and AOE both in game and in cutscenes anyways, so like i said, shouldn't be majorly different from what she's capable of in lore.

Ehhh, if it was implied to just be a dream, then I dont feel certain about using showings from it. The in game footage you showed is good enough, though Mash has avoided spacial attacks that could cleave through multiple mountains while flying in the air.

as for the exertion, by the end of 2.5's main story, plus following the events of the sword keeper chronicles event, shunguang has gotten a lot better at using the sword's abilities to the point where she can use it without getting hit super heavily by it's negative drawbacks. you could argue a big AOE nuke attack like that would probably still wear her down, but i don't think it'd straight up render her unconscious like in the demo especially with how much more she's grown accustomed to using the sword. she can still chain together regular spatial slashes just fine with no repercussions, so i'd say the AOE nuke would probably be the only thing that might wear her down heavily

With these improvements, you say that she doesn't get hit "super heavily", does that imply there's still some visible drawbacks?

i can agree with that yeah. i think both would probably start off growing at similar rates, but i think mash would probably just eventually overtake her in a prolonged battle given his pretty cracked ability to adapt to opponents. in that case i think a prolonged battle probably favors mash way more, especially with his superior stamina

i think mash's stealth is unironically the most dangerous thing in his kit that shunguang has to watch out for, and honestly i think the fight really might come down to the instance mash stealths away and jumps at her with a surprise attack. if she can dodge with IA she might be able to chain in VV fast enough to OHKO him with a spatial attack, otherwise mash just grabs her and proceeds to pummel her. shunguang basically has to end the fight as quickly as possible, because i definitely think a prolonged battle heavily favors mash if he eventually just adapts to the stuff he can throw at her

if Mash does go for a sneak attack, as you said he could pummel her. However, the more devastating option he could go for his probably his Erector Spinae Magic: Hell Fall. He basically locks her in place by wrapping his arms around her, and dropping her straight onto her head.

 

[Sooshirohl]

Still helpful in the end, it means he still has some initial extra footing to use

fair enough

Ehhh, if it was implied to just be a dream, then I dont feel certain about using showings from it. The in game footage you showed is good enough, though Mash has avoided spacial attacks that could cleave through multiple mountains while flying in the air.

also fair

With these improvements, you say that she doesn't get hit "super heavily", does that imply there's still some visible drawbacks?

it's admittedly kind of vague, although in the sword keeper event, she uses the qingming sword throughout basically the entire event with seemingly no negative drawbacks. i'm under the impression that a widespread AOE attack like the one she used in her demo might drain her, but we don't really have a frame of reference to go off of in regards to that. i think it's been made pretty consistently clear that regular usage of the qingming sword doesn't affect her too much though, so i don't think it'll play toooo big of a factor in this MU

if Mash does go for a sneak attack, as you said he could pummel her. However, the more devastating option he could go for his probably his Erector Spinae Magic: Hell Fall. He basically locks her in place by wrapping his arms around her, and dropping her straight onto her head.

to be fair i think mash just getting his hands on her at any point at all would basically just be a GGs lol. he could just beat her to death with his 3x AP advantage or just choke her unconscious with his absurdly superior LS. he definitely wouldn't need to do allat to secure a win imo

 

[AnAverageUsername]

fair enough


also fair


it's admittedly kind of vague, although in the sword keeper event, she uses the qingming sword throughout basically the entire event with seemingly no negative drawbacks. i'm under the impression that a widespread AOE attack like the one she used in her demo might drain her, but we don't really have a frame of reference to go off of in regards to that. i think it's been made pretty consistently clear that regular usage of the qingming sword doesn't affect her too much though, so i don't think it'll play toooo big of a factor in this MU

That's fine, I was just wondering since the wording gave me that kind of impression.

Let me guess, she's a minor character in tbe story?

to be fair i think mash just getting his hands on her at any point at all would basically just be a GGs lol. he could just beat her to death with his 3x AP advantage or just choke her unconscious with his absurdly superior LS. he definitely wouldn't need to do allat to secure a win imo

Hey, its all for the hype moments and aura. He isn't afraid to suplex girls, why wouldn't he piledrive them!

The kid's a nut job

 

[Sooshirohl]

That's fine, I was just wondering since the wording gave me that kind of impression.

Let me guess, she's a minor character in tbe story?

i wouldn't really say minor, she is a void hunter after all (basically just like the top brass of the verse who act as the strongest line of defense for new eridu). she literally just released in-game though, so we still obviously need to see a lot more from her in future stories. the recent main story of ZZZ gave us some teasers about the origins of void hunter weapons (the qingming sword she uses) so i think she'll definitely play a bigger role later down the line when we get bigger lore drops

Hey, its all for the hype moments and aura. He isn't afraid to suplex girls, why wouldn't he piledrive them!

The kid's a nut job

fair enough lol. i admittedly only watched a few episodes of mashle but that was kind of the impression i got from mash. bro really does not gaf

anyways, back to the actual debate at hand, i might think on it a bit more but i would proooobably lean more towards mash winning atm. think his stat advantage really helps, and shunguang basically has to hope she can get a spatial slash off early on into the fight otherwise i think mash just adapts faster than she can and finds his opening to beat her down

 

[AnAverageUsername]

i wouldn't really say minor, she is a void hunter after all (basically just like the top brass of the verse who act as the strongest line of defense for new eridu). she literally just released in-game though, so we still obviously need to see a lot more from her in future stories. the recent main story of ZZZ gave us some teasers about the origins of void hunter weapons (the qingming sword she uses) so i think she'll definitely play a bigger role later down the line when we get bigger lore drops


fair enough lol. i admittedly only watched a few episodes of mashle but that was kind of the impression i got from mash. bro really does not gaf

He's just a chill dude who likes to work out and eat cream puffs

Also if you liked it I do suggest watching some more. It gets better and more action focused- and please we NEED the supporters the very has been in a DROUGHT!

And yeah, extreme diff fight, but Mash's casual stats at this stage of the story is just that good of a boon. And this debate was goated, it was an excellent experience.

 

[Jerry59]

Mash FRA I suppose

 

[Epiccheev]

Mash Burnedead FRA

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Now listen to his theme

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Bump

 

[Thunderman101]

mash for reasons above

 

[AnAverageUsername]

That should be 5 votes, just 2 more till grace and round victory

 

[Doggo]

Mash FRA

 

[Sooshirohl]

anyways, back to the actual debate at hand, i might think on it a bit more but i would proooobably lean more towards mash winning atm. think his stat advantage really helps, and shunguang basically has to hope she can get a spatial slash off early on into the fight otherwise i think mash just adapts faster than she can and finds his opening to beat her down

i didn't really consider this me laying down a vote for mash but since we're approaching grace i'll cast a vote for mash officially. i believe that means only one more vote needs to be cast to enter grace

 

[AthelChan]

damn is this another high diff match for a zzz character? I'll Vote for for the STR guy in a INT world FRA

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Oh right, that should be grace

 

[Sooshirohl]

Oh right, that should be grace

ggs, it was a fun debate even if it was a relatively short one. wishing mash luck in the coming rounds

 

[AnAverageUsername]

ggs, it was a fun debate even if it was a relatively short one.

gg as well, it was hella fun. Always enjoy me a debate thats between physical fighters, it leads to the best debates.

wishing mash luck in the coming rounds

Of course, after all, he was always the one with the blocks, the one with the brains (lie), and the brawns (true), and the smarts (lie)

 

[AnAverageUsername]

And thats all folks, can anyone with a computer add this match?