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Hey ois, we might have ****** up (Hazbin tiering revision again)

DaReaperMan said:
If she was hit directly, Dark, why wasn't it, oh I don't know, her main body STRIPPED TO THE BONE?

Because yes, her wing was bones after her hit. That beam DELETES Emily's flesh.
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I think I answered that, to me it seems like the attack pushed her out the way, after all, it was only her feathers on her wing that was "lost", not to mention how some of them are shown falling like leaves, with minimal damage.

I would fully agree with you if her wing was fully destroyed, but it isn¨t.

(Though it could just be a case of bad animation....)
 
Polastournecis said:
Oh this is a different case, and yeah, that either
Imagine you try to block a bullet with pan, and the bullet immediately pierces through, then **** it, your pan scales to shit

But if you have a stick that is able to block an AoE attack, like a omnidirectional shockwaves that wreck environment but still keeps you intact despite it breaking in half after usage, then, it would downscale to AoE attack (cuz ofc, no second hand for you)

This is more about types of attacks, with one of them only happens in fiction
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Give up, Adam headcanon is too strong.
 
p1QmFIl.png

It was reduced to bone. Well, mostly, I don't know how that middle part survived lol
 
Dark_Soul20189 said:
I think I answered that, to me it seems like the attack pushed her out the way, after all, it was only her feathers on her wing that was "lost", not to mention how some of them are shown falling like leaves, with minimal damage.
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Dark. The beam is ******* huge. It would not have pushed her sideways, it'd push her forward.

Also, do you know the basics of wing anatomy? Do you genuinely believe it's all feathers and bones?
 
DaReaperMan said:
You don't scale to something that one-shots you. If anything, it'd warrant a "Higher with Staff" because it did save him, but it wouldn't be like, scaling to Adam at all.
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Is Adam's One Shot on Alastor valid? I mean, Alastor was weakened, and Adam attacked him with piercing AP from an angelic weapon, which also negates magic, especially demonic magic. To consider Adam capable of One Shot Alastor without an Angelic Weapon is the same as considering Nifty to One Shot Adam, or Striker to Stolas. It's basically OutHax + piercing AP.
 
OiEuSouDuvi said:
Is Adam's One Shot on Alastor valid? I mean, Alastor was weakened, and Adam attacked him with piercing AP from an angelic weapon, which also negates magic, especially demonic magic. To consider Adam capable of One Shot Alastor without an Angelic Weapon is the same as considering Nifty to One Shot Adam, or Striker to Stolas. It's basically OutHax + piercing AP.
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Need I remind you that Rosie laughed her ******* ass off at the fact Alastor thought he stood a chance against Adam? And that it took full demon form sneak attack hits to stagger him in the slightest? Ch**lie did more to Adam than Alastor did, and Charlie literally got unceremoniously overpowered with ease.

Yes, Adam one-shot Weakened Alastor and FP Alastor has damn near no reason to scale to him.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Need I remind you that Rosie laughed her ******* ass off at the fact Alastor thought he stood a chance against Adam? And that it took full demon form sneak attack hits to stagger him in the slightest? Ch**lie did more to Adam than Alastor did, and Charlie literally got unceremoniously overpowered with ease.

Yes, Adam one-shot Weakened Alastor and FP Alastor has damn near no reason to scale to him.
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Am I wrong or not but doesn’t the wiki consider being off guard = lower durability than normal?
 
ShionAH said:
Am I wrong or not but doesn’t the wiki consider being off guard = lower durability than normal?
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When you're not Dragon Ball there's still scaling to be had. Like, it's Adam>>FP Alastor's big boy demon form attacks.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Need I remind you that Rosie laughed her ******* ass off at the fact Alastor thought he stood a chance against Adam? And that it took full demon form sneak attack hits to stagger him in the slightest? Ch**lie did more to Adam than Alastor did, and Charlie literally got unceremoniously overpowered with ease.

Yes, Adam one-shot Weakened Alastor and FP Alastor has damn near no reason to scale to him.
Click to expand...
Okay, this validates Adam > Alastor, not Adam One Shot Alastor. Rosie didn't see the fight between Alastor and Adam, and although I believe her, it still doesn't erase Alastor surviving an attack from an extremely angry Adam, and only taking One Shot when weakened, and by Hax + piercing AP. And honestly, Charlie being easily defeated by Adam, who was less angry and serious than against Alastor, is a demerit of hers, not Alastor's.
 
OiEuSouDuvi said:
Okay, this validates Adam > Alastor, not Adam One Shot Alastor. Rosie didn't see the fight between Alastor and Adam, and although I believe her, it still doesn't erase Alastor surviving an attack from an extremely angry Adam, and only taking One Shot when weakened, and by Hax + piercing AP. And honestly, Charlie being easily defeated by Adam, who was less angry and serious than against Alastor, is a demerit of hers, not Alastor's.
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I should refer to him by his real name then...

Fraudlastor, whose magic barrier was just shattered in one punch by a slightly annoyed Adam, fought a casual Adam until he tried to tank a hit, and would have ******* died had he not put his staff in the way. The most Fraudlastor did to Adam was stagger him with a shadow, and throw him around with no sign of pain from Adam. In Full Demon Form.
 
DaReaperMan said:
I should refer to him by his real name then...

Fraudlastor, whose magic barrier was just shattered in one punch by a slightly annoyed Adam, fought a casual Adam until he tried to tank a hit, and would have ******* died had he not put his staff in the way. The most Fraudlastor did to Adam was stagger him with a shadow, and throw him around with no sign of pain from Adam. In Full Demon Form.
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How strange, wasn't that barrier broken by an angry Adam who literally saw part of his army massacred by Alastor? And, as far as I remember, Alastor was in his base form when he created the barrier. And this same angry Adam went to fight Alastor, being constantly humiliated by him, and at the height of his fury, attacked by a blast of divine Light with his Axe (which for some reason you say was a Shockwave), only managed to break his staff, it didn't vaporize Alastor, pulverize him, burn him, or anything like that, but only destroyed his staff and a bit of his clothing. So, obviously, the staff tanked most of the damage, but if Adam one-shotted Alastor, shouldn't the part of the energy not tanked by the thin staff have brutally wounded Alastor? Or is Alastor not so much weaker than Adam as you suggest?
 
DaReaperMan said:
I should refer to him by his real name then...

Fraudlastor, whose magic barrier was just shattered in one punch by a slightly annoyed Adam, fought a casual Adam until he tried to tank a hit, and would have ******* died had he not put his staff in the way. The most Fraudlastor did to Adam was stagger him with a shadow, and throw him around with no sign of pain from Adam. In Full Demon Form.
Click to expand...
Actually, since you used Charlie as a comparison, why don't we compare the fights?

On one hand, we have Adam fighting Alastor, a sinner who murdered several exorcists in front of him. He couldn't hit him in his base form, being dominated by his tentacles in his true form, but managed to defeat him with brute force, breaking his staff and almost finishing him off with an angelic axe blow.

On the other hand, we have Adam fighting the awakened Charlie, the princess of hell, an infernal being he cannot kill, a woman he underestimates. He clearly dominates her throughout the fight, only taking damage when he is caught off guard by an angelic trident. It's strange how Adam had more difficulty in a fight where he had no reason to hold back, isn't it? To give Charlie a point, she managed to block a punch from an angry Adam using the power of rage.
 
OiEuSouDuvi said:
How strange, wasn't that barrier broken by an angry Adam who literally saw part of his army massacred by Alastor?
Click to expand...
Adam gives zero ***** about the excorcists. He literally named one after a ******. If you notice, when Pentious' cannons were taking down excorcists, he was laughing and casual.

This is a non argument.
OiEuSouDuvi said:
And, as far as I remember, Alastor was in his base form when he created the barrier. And this same angry Adam went to fight Alastor, being constantly humiliated by him, and at the height of his fury, attacked by a blast of divine Light with his Axe (which for some reason you say was a Shockwave), only managed to break his staff, it didn't vaporize Alastor, pulverize him, burn him, or anything like that, but only destroyed his staff and a bit of his clothing. So, obviously, the staff tanked most of the damage, but if Adam one-shotted Alastor, shouldn't the part of the energy not tanked by the thin staff have brutally wounded Alastor? Or is Alastor not so much weaker than Adam as you suggest?
Click to expand...
You just agreed with me. Full Power Fraudlastor in demon form massively downscales with magic, while his durability is a one-shot below Adam. Unless of course you believe someone needs to get Akainu-style donuted to be one-shot? Or that his staff is a one-shot below him?
 
DaReaperMan said:
Adam gives zero ***** about the excorcists. He literally named one after a ******. If you notice, when Pentious' cannons were taking down excorcists, he was laughing and casual.

This is a non argument.
Click to expand...
Yes, Adam cares about his exorcists, not in the sense of being empathetic or anything like that, but because they are his army. Adam becomes explicitly angry when he sees his army being killed by their own weapons with a barrier in front of them. This is a perfectly plausible argument; it makes no sense to disregard it when his frustration is so explicit.
DaReaperMan said:
You just agreed with me. Full Power Fraudlastor in demon form massively downscales with magic, while his durability is a one-shot below Adam. Unless of course you believe someone needs to get Akainu-style donuted to be one-shot? Or that his staff is a one-shot below him?
Click to expand...
No, I agree that Alastor is inferior to Adam, but I consider him close to him. If the difference were massive, Alastor would have been injured, since the staff didn't stop the entire attack. And most importantly, there is absolutely nothing to indicate that Adam could one-shot Alastor. He only managed to do so against a weakened Alastor, using piercing AP and Hax.

And technically, Adam literally has an automatic Hax against Alastor even without an Angelic Weapon, since angelic power, even without a weapon, is accepted on the wiki as capable of erasing demonic magic, and Adam literally erased Alastor's magic with his Attack (which is accepted on his page), making Alastor's feat even more surprising.
 
OiEuSouDuvi said:
Yes, Adam cares about his exorcists, not in the sense of being empathetic or anything like that, but because they are his army. Adam becomes explicitly angry when he sees his army being killed by their own weapons with a barrier in front of them. This is a perfectly plausible argument; it makes no sense to disregard it when his frustration is so explicit.

No, I agree that Alastor is inferior to Adam, but I consider him close to him. If the difference were massive, Alastor would have been injured, since the staff didn't stop the entire attack. And most importantly, there is absolutely nothing to indicate that Adam could one-shot Alastor. He only managed to do so against a weakened Alastor, using piercing AP and Hax.

And technically, Adam literally has an automatic Hax against Alastor even without an Angelic Weapon, since angelic power, even without a weapon, is accepted on the wiki as capable of erasing demonic magic, and Adam literally erased Alastor's magic with his Attack (which is accepted on his page), making Alastor's feat even more surprising.
Click to expand...
1) Mate. What triggers Adam's frustrated outburst? Be honest. There is an explicitly right answer here.

2) Do I need to post Rosie's reaction to Al thinking he was close to Adam in power?

3) We're going to be removing that. Since the staff is the source of most of Al's powers and he shadows away right after.

4) AP is AP.
 
Anyhoo, this is derailing the thread. Wait about two days if I don't get my Goetia CRT passed to make a CRT on the matter.
 
DaReaperMan said:
You remember that 1.7 Yottaton feat Reddit is mad about? I got misinformed, it's actually 1743.06 Yottatons, a 1000x increase. Which means I need to do math again, but scaling to this has already been debated and accepted, I just need to change the values... Oh, and thank you to Mammoth-North-9380 on Reddit for originally posting this which brought it to my attention. This is ******* funny.
Yeah it's basically adding a ******' zero to the previous calcs but still need to do this.

1743.06 ÷ 14 = 124.5 Yottatons (5-A)
1743.06 ÷ 1852.82 = 0.9407 or 940.7 Zettatons (5-B)

Lucifer time now, since one of his scalings is directly to the damn feat,
1743.06 ÷ 40.46 = 43.08 Yottatons.
Click to expand...
Agree.
DaReaperMan said:
They do not exist for the high tiers anymore. At all. This blast was literally going to kill them or is eventually exhausted them. Dividing that shit by 14 was the bare minimum. NOBODY gets any of these three anymore. Not Alastor, not Vox not Charlie, not anyone.
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I don't get why? They are at least 5-B/5-A value they scale to, likely far higher, lol.
 
TheOrangeGuy09 said:
I don't get why? They are at least 5-B/5-A value they scale to, likely far higher, lol.
Click to expand...
And far higher implies something in tier 4. Or do you buy Stolas "causing" a supernova now?
 
OiEuSouDuvi said:
I agree, although debating Adam vs. Alastor is always controversial and fun. 👍😃
Click to expand...
Maybe for the first few times but you're talking to someone who's debated it for more posts than you've even posted on the entire wiki for longer than you've been on the wiki. Not exactly something I look forward to.

And mind, I've debated both sides of the spectrum, from folks thinking Adam no-sold everything to @TheOrangeGuy09 who's gotten it to be FD Alastor with magic massively downscaling from Adam(though this isn't reflected on the profile, yet.)

Something you have to remember is that proper revisions aren't 100% done. Outside of the six reworks, everyone else needs their new abilities and justifications from Season 2. At least from Hazbin
 
DaReaperMan said:
Maybe for the first few times but you're talking to someone who's debated it for more posts than you've even posted on the entire wiki for longer than you've been on the wiki. Not exactly something I look forward to.

And mind, I've debated both sides of the spectrum, from folks thinking Adam no-sold everything to @TheOrangeGuy09 who's gotten it to be FD Alastor with magic massively downscaling from Adam(though this isn't reflected on the profile, yet.)

Something you have to remember is that proper revisions aren't 100% done. Outside of the six reworks, everyone else needs their new abilities and justifications from Season 2. At least from Hazbin
Click to expand...
I know, I read your Adam vs. Alastor debates with Orange, I also read the ones about Undertale, etc. My not being very active on the wiki doesn't mean I don't know about it.
 
I apologize for saying this only now, but the result isn't the only error in LoK's calculation.

After revisiting LoK's calculation to account for the rest of the feat he didn't calculate (the tremor caused by Might of Lilith's collision with the shield, and the second cloud dispersion after the shield shattered), I realized I couldn't do it without contradicting the original calculation due to its confusing and flawed nature.

In short: The volume isn't presented correctly; it doesn't use the correct KE formula found on the cloud calculation page; the cloud density used is the high end of the water density in that cloud, completely ignoring the amount of air moved, which, incidentally, is the main and heaviest element moved. Furthermore, it calculates the speed of Might of Lilith's beam based on the distance traveled instead of the actual distance traveled.

I intend to explain this in more detail in a blog post I'm working on, covering the entire process. The only reason I'm giving you advance notice here is because I thought it best to inform you before the calculation is implemented.
 
OiEuSouDuvi said:
I apologize for saying this only now, but the result isn't the only error in LoK's calculation.

After revisiting LoK's calculation to account for the rest of the feat he didn't calculate (the tremor caused by Might of Lilith's collision with the shield, and the second cloud dispersion after the shield shattered), I realized I couldn't do it without contradicting the original calculation due to its confusing and flawed nature.

In short: The volume isn't presented correctly; it doesn't use the correct KE formula found on the cloud calculation page; the cloud density used is the high end of the water density in that cloud, completely ignoring the amount of air moved, which, incidentally, is the main and heaviest element moved. Furthermore, it calculates the speed of Might of Lilith's beam based on the distance traveled instead of the actual distance traveled.

I intend to explain this in more detail in a blog post I'm working on, covering the entire process. The only reason I'm giving you advance notice here is because I thought it best to inform you before the calculation is implemented.
Click to expand...
Run your blog by @Agnaa in a DM, work out the kinks with him, or any other CGM, then come back to us.
 
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