Project Moon: For they shall demonstrate before thee

[DMUA]

Well, I said I'd make this thread soonish, and it's been 6 days and this shouldn't really be that hard outside a few pain points

So, with Canto 9 we had the whole LCD team show up, including some new faces but more importantly here, the reappearance of Moses and Ezra (And Vespa, but he doesn't have a page and... I was gonna write that I didn't feel like making a page for him but I almost do upon saying that, maybe that's something else I'll do soonish)

Abilities​

This is about as easy as it comes. Ezra shows off Shin, Mang, and gets Charge Tremor and Bleed in her kit. Not much to write home about, though I'll post my sandbox in case any of you have issue with the wording or citations I want to use for when I add it to the page. Similarly Moses gets Shin and some better feats for her E.G.O., including her violet breath being severe enough that a Moonlight Stone could only free one of Matthias' legs before it was totally used up

Edit: Ezra should also scale up to the resistances of splitters, which technically goes here instead of the next section, that's kinda self evident but I figure I'd also explicitly mention it

Stats​

Despite not having a page, the mere fact Vespa is now the yellow harpoon and rated at level 87 is core to pretty much all of it. It is weaker than Don Quixote, but only by 3 levels and thus a clash power deficit of 1, which he can wholly make up for anyways through Shin. Matthias can actually overwhelm Vespa if his unique statuses ramp up too hard, and Ezra is an active contributor to a more limited extent, often losing clashes but tanking a lot of hits with her assist defense. I'd argue to just have her scale in durability outright, but given her sheer endurance and the point of Splitters I figure I should leave it in open air in that regard

The bigger issue is Moses, whose in game level is 87. If you've read distortion detective, or even just the story in Part 2 and 3 of Limbus, you'll know this seems... incredibly odd. She never fights physically and her main offensive move goes out of its way to not proc defensive skills so she doesn't get countered by either Kira or Matthias, and her debuff, datamined to bring her down to around level 66, is "Memories of that day", a similarly pure mental effect and not something that indicates her physical stats are back to that of a Grade 1 or up to a color's level. So it seems like it indicates the upper potential of her EGO now, but there are arguments you could make to the contrary.

One, her healthbar has more than enough room to in fact take a hit from Matthias, and this can actually happen in the fight. You could argue in turn that it's still EGO, given she also shows the ability to enhance the durability of herself and others, but... at that point it's just something she can use to physically fight anyways. But then again, that doesn't really solve how she was about as helpless as the rest of LCE against Matthias' rampage and she had to resort to siccing Abnormalities on him to buy time until she could set up violet breath, and the debuff that brings her down to Kira's level is... okay I thought it was just something linked to the Part 3 encounter but when I dig the scene up again it's apparently implied to empower her because he actually thanks Matthias and states she has another Crimson Point in her??? Despite being a debuff???

Man I don't even know what PM is going for there at this point but threads are for open discussion, I'll just personally state I'd make it scale to her EGO and have a note stating that her in game level shouldn't reflect her physicals, and her tanking a hit or two is probably for gameplay so that you don't have to restart the fight the moment she gets love tapped by a counter, I dunno, post thread

Side note I should make explicit: These should all be new keys. In universe it's been nearly two years since the events of distortion detective and their showings are just way higher than they were before, so yeah

 

[MusicRelaxing]

Oh hey! I was going about my way to create the profiles for all of the characters in Limbus one by one- I agree with all of the proposed changes. Also, Ezra generally is a tank for all of Matthias's attacks, who's relative to the yellow harpoon through the events of Part 1, so that much is clear. Also, Shin and Mang are significant amps, as I'm pretty sure in Leviathan; Vergilus making 2 was enough to one shot someone who was relative to them(?). I'd have to get scans, but it is in Leviathan - Shin & Mang.

Vespa is actually make two mang, so he should simply just upscale off of Don's value in its entirety IMO. I... don't know how to treat Moses since unironically I haven't read that , but I agree yo.

 

[MusicRelaxing]

Also, here is a way you can write Shin & Mang, I just used Lei Heng's as a base since I'm going to eventually do his profiles, just focusing on the sinners since those are the annoying ones in a seperate sandbox.

EDIT: Is there any server or something for PM scaling stuff? I think I can help by straggling all of the profiles together. I feel like once the sinners are done, literally everything else would be easy since it'd be basically restitching sinner's profiles details (like burn, rupture, etc) into another.

 

[DMUA]

Also, here is a way you can write Shin & Mang, I just used Lei Heng's as a base since I'm going to eventually do his profiles, just focusing on the sinners since those are the annoying ones in a seperate sandbox.

Helpful, but I will say this specific instance shouldn't be Accelerated Development, since that implies they get stronger and keep that, hence developing rapidly rather than just amping themselves more the more hurt they get

EDIT: Is there any server or something for PM scaling stuff? I think I can help by straggling all of the profiles together. I feel like once the sinners are done, literally everything else would be easy since it'd be basically restitching sinner's profiles details (like burn, rupture, etc) into another.

I don't remember anything beyond just the same four guys in versus central, only one of whom really responds at gunpoint since the rest don't really use the wiki regularly anymore

 

[MusicRelaxing]

Helpful, but I will say this specific instance shouldn't be Accelerated Development, since that implies they get stronger and keep that, hence developing rapidly rather than just amping themselves more the more hurt they get

So, would it be Limited Accelerated Development? I don't know what that would classify as since shin's do get stronger when closer to death, except for like, Vergilus's. Limited in the sense that they have to get closer to death to be amped.

I don't remember anything beyond just the same four guys in versus central, only one of whom really responds at gunpoint since the rest don't really use the wiki regularly anymore

Do you have any idea where the sinners would scale?

I don't think that they'd reach the small city tiers, especially since all of the color fixer level enemies they fight are either nerfed to some extent, they get one shotted by or are heavily carried by someone on that tier, in the case of Verg, he's amping them to a good deal with that blood barrier.

 

[DMUA]

So, would it be Limited Accelerated Development? I don't know what that would classify as since shin's do get stronger when closer to death, except for like, Vergilus's. Limited in the sense that they have to get closer to death to be amped.

It's just statistics amplification but moreso, a temporarily amplification of stats

Do you have any idea where the sinners would scale?

I don't think that they'd reach the small city tiers, especially since all of the color fixer level enemies they fight are either nerfed to some extent, they get one shotted by or are heavily carried by someone on that tier, in the case of Verg, he's amping them to a good deal with that blood barrier.

As of now that they're level 60, High 8-C. In-between Ricardo, the Knight of Despair, and Hohenheim with Big Bird's EGO Gear being that level it seems that's what they're rating Grade 1s and WAWs as. I'd also say they'd be High 8-C in Canto 8 since a 5 level gap from Grade 1s aren't that big and you could probably compare them to something like the Rabbits

Then for Canto 7 they'd probably be a 9-A likely High 8-C for fighting off Ricardo despite clearly being weaker and not really beating them so much as stalling for time, then Cantos 6-1 they'd just be varying degrees of 9-A, though I'd split Canto 5-6 from 4-1 on account of them scaling to Massively Hypersonic thanks to fighting multiple Urban Nightmares, including Distorted Bamboo Hatted Kim and later the Time Ripper

 

[MusicRelaxing]

It's just statistics amplification but moreso, a temporarily amplification of stats

Alrighty, will fix later.

Snip!

Thank you! Also, what would be the LS of the verse?
In terms of keys, you want me to split it up as:

Canto 1 - 4 | Canto 5 - 6 | Canto 7 - 9

 

[DMUA]

Alrighty, will fix later.

Thank you! Also, what would be the LS of the verse?

Class M lifting strength is admittedly kinda dubious given it comes from the Pianist, who's either the strongest WAW or weakest ALEPH, but there's also not much better (As in I genuinely cannot think of any other lifting strength feat and neither can the pages, as I discovered... which reminds me that I completely forgot to add in the +s to High 8-C and Low 7-B, that was something else I wanted to do here), so it'd just kinda be Superhuman for everything before Canto 8

In terms of keys, you want me to split it up as:

Canto 1 - 4 | Canto 5 - 6 | Canto 7 - 9

Yeah, something like that. Canto 7 should technically be it's own key of them being Splitters between 9-A and High 8-C but it might not matter that much in the grand scheme

 

[MusicRelaxing]

Snip

Like this?

 

[DMUA]

Yeah

 

[Poketmonsrs]

I agree with the additions and having Moses’ HP being gameplay mechanic

 

[Yasuda_144]

All of this works, and I'd like to add that there is an unevaluated calc that's in the Class M range besides the Pianist, although since it's Don Quixote it wouldn't scale to anyone that doesn't scale to the Pianist (I'd argue the Pianist's TK doesn't really scale to anyone's physical LS at all considering nobody overcomes it in any way, but Sancho is capable of withstanding Don Quixote's lances without being pushed back from the impact, whereas Verg can make her lose her footing and gain ground while clashing against her with his EGO.)

I'd probably lean towards Ezra being just Low 7-B in durability and only a splitter in terms of AP considering she's always been a tank, but having her just be a splitter in general works too.

I forget which Red technique it was exactly, but I think Crimson Point is existence erasure in which case Moses' pipe would only scale to Matthias LS wise, although I'm not sure.

 

[DMUA]

I forget which Red technique it was exactly, but I think Crimson Point is existence erasure in which case Moses' pipe would only scale to Matthias LS wise, although I'm not sure.

Yeah Crimson point is EE on the profiles so I might remove that from the justification, but they're rated as High 8-C in DD from their Violet Breath stuff, including restraining something so it'd just help for consistency (and it's not like Matthias is able to just break it with brute force even after he gets his leg free to theoretically snap it with a kick)

 

[Onyoury]

Stats​

Despite not having a page, the mere fact Vespa is now the yellow harpoon and rated at level 87 is core to pretty much all of it. It is weaker than Don Quixote, but only by 3 levels and thus a clash power deficit of 1, which he can wholly make up for anyways through Shin. Matthias can actually overwhelm Vespa if his unique statuses ramp up too hard, and Ezra is an active contributor to a more limited extent, often losing clashes but tanking a lot of hits with her assist defense. I'd argue to just have her scale in durability outright, but given her sheer endurance and the point of Splitters I figure I should leave it in open air in that regard

The bigger issue is Moses, whose in game level is 87. If you've read distortion detective, or even just the story in Part 2 and 3 of Limbus, you'll know this seems... incredibly odd. She never fights physically and her main offensive move goes out of its way to not proc defensive skills so she doesn't get countered by either Kira or Matthias, and her debuff, datamined to bring her down to around level 66, is "Memories of that day", a similarly pure mental effect and not something that indicates her physical stats are back to that of a Grade 1 or up to a color's level. So it seems like it indicates the upper potential of her EGO now, but there are arguments you could make to the contrary.

One, her healthbar has more than enough room to in fact take a hit from Matthias, and this can actually happen in the fight. You could argue in turn that it's still EGO, given she also shows the ability to enhance the durability of herself and others, but... at that point it's just something she can use to physically fight anyways. But then again, that doesn't really solve how she was about as helpless as the rest of LCE against Matthias' rampage and she had to resort to siccing Abnormalities on him to buy time until she could set up violet breath, and the debuff that brings her down to Kira's level is... okay I thought it was just something linked to the Part 3 encounter but when I dig the scene up again it's apparently implied to empower her because he actually thanks Matthias and states she has another Crimson Point in her??? Despite being a debuff???

moses has a panic type called "Body Broken Beyond Repair".
Her body was seriously damaged after the Smoke War, and "Memories of that Day" symbolizes this fact.

 

[DMUA]

That still doesn't make much sense given that her being artificially level 66 as a result of that still puts her way above her showings in Distortion Detective (Or even just in this canto where she never even considers jumping Kira herself), where she is a Grade 5 and immediately gives up the second the gestalt distortion so much as throws a single blow at her. Like, maybe you can argue she got better augments and other things like Vespa and Ezra, but then you have to ask why they'd go through all that effort to still leave her "broken beyond repair" when Dias has infinite money to work with and we know of stuff like full bodily cloning insurance letting people come back from the brink through exclusively their heads, even assuming just fixing it surgically wasn't an option for whatever reason. It's not like Yujin where they just had absolutely no time to get medical treatment or recover, it's been years and she's not exactly hobbling around like a cripple

 

[Onyoury]

That still doesn't make much sense given that her being artificially level 66 as a result of that still puts her way above her showings in Distortion Detective (Or even just in this canto where she never even considers jumping Kira herself), where she is a Grade 5 and immediately gives up the second the gestalt distortion so much as throws a single blow at her. Like, maybe you can argue she got better augments and other things like Vespa and Ezra, but then you have to ask why they'd go through all that effort to still leave her "broken beyond repair" when Dias has infinite money to work with and we know of stuff like full bodily cloning insurance letting people come back from the brink through exclusively their heads, even assuming just fixing it surgically wasn't an option for whatever reason. It's not like Yujin where they just had absolutely no time to get medical treatment or recover, it's been years and she's not exactly hobbling around like a cripple

Stealing internal game information is not an official setting.
The only information that can be confirmed in the game is that moses was originally level 87 and has become weaker since the Smoke War.

Again, she has a panic type called "Body Broken Beyond Repair" and this is the official setting. It's open to speculation as to why she's in this state, but these are just facts
She may be stronger than she was three years ago, but her body is now damaged beyond repair.
And the k ampoule will only return you to who you think you are, and if you had used that ampoule in the first place, you would not have used the prosthetic body.

 

[MysticBrawler]

Bump

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Agree as well

 

[Random-Helper323]

Can someone sum up what's been agreed on here?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

The OP is written in such a way that if you don't have proper verse knowledge you could get lost trying to understand it. But from what I can get, you are proposing these characters get a new key downscaling from Don Quixote's tier through Vespa, since those two are very close in level?

As for the abilities part, seem alright I suppose.

 

[MusicRelaxing]

The OP is written in such a way that if you don't have proper verse knowledge you could get lost trying to understand it. But from what I can get, you are proposing these characters get a new key downscaling from Don Quixote's tier through Vespa, since those two are very close in level?

Basically, yeah! In Limbus Company (very good game you should play it its free), there's a thing to show level gaps between people known as Offense level, where in a clash between enemies- if there is a level gap between them, the offense level which between a clash between two characters would gain 1 power per 3 l offense level difference, which scales to the levels that someone has.

Here's a example, where my Meursault identity (the guy with the yellow aura) clashes with someone that has way less level then them (level gap between LV 60 and LV 3 in an extreme case):

Vespa, who is LV 87 (iirc, don't quote me on this) shouldn't be that far off from Don Quixote. The feat incontext that he scaled to was performed when he was practically on deaths' door, with an accumulative of 40 offense level being removed.

Since Don Quixote is level 90, Vespa is 87; he should downscale (or arguably upscale, since he was obscenely nerfed while at it).

 

[MusicRelaxing]

you know this is a really roundabout saying that they don't have a major level gap and vespa should downscale

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I guess that works, then

 

[MusicRelaxing]

I guess that works, then

thank you for the approval and hope you have a good day!!!

 

[DMUA]

Since Don Quixote is level 90, Vespa is 87; he should downscale (or arguably upscale, since he was obscenely nerfed while at it).

The thing I will say is that Don seemingly got over the nerfs near the end, given that he's supposed to be on par with the sinners thanks to them, then the fight ends with him going "Alright that's enough" and one-shotting them so hard his attack is described to go through them like paper, and he only got stopped from killing Dante with a follow up thanks to Sancho (Level 85 with no debuffs beyond not wanting to kill her friends) stepping in front of it and taking it. It might have something to do with how he stalled himself from having to fulfill the thirst for so long by just having a dream, and near the end he finds that spark of life again, but that's not really something directly stated (And he'd still have the golden bough impaled in him, but I suppose the likes of Jia Mu handled that much better so he might have gotten over that too)

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

That's one staff approved the change, how about you @Random-Helper323

 

[DMUA]

In the time I have been pointing a gun at crimson and poking him with the barrel to comment here, this page got made and... Yeah I'm just going to officially note here that Valencina should be changed to be a splitter (It's even relevant to this very CRT given Ezra should scale to her)

Not only is there fact her page blatantly notes that she relies heavily on precog to win and gets rocked with little effort the moment it wears off, but she's also on the same level as people clearly overpowered by Colors and those of a similar tier (And just... is 13 levels off, not a small difference there)

 

[MusicRelaxing]

Snip^2

I already suggested to the user that Valencina should just get that stat for reactions and perceptions, so:

Atleast Massively Hypersonic with Atleast Relativistic+ Combat, Perception & Reaction Speeds (The Eye of Precognition is akin to a computing device that analyzes everything it sees and provides the most likely scenario in the upcoming instant, allowing Valencina to contend and keep up with Vergilus through the eye of precognition: countering his strikes and evading them whilsts drunk. Though, overheated as Vergilus and the sinners overwhelmed it with time.

 

[MysticBrawler]

In the time I have been pointing a gun at crimson and poking him with the barrel to comment here, this page got made and... Yeah I'm just going to officially note here that Valencina should be changed to be a splitter (It's even relevant to this very CRT given Ezra should scale to her)

Not only is there fact her page blatantly notes that she relies heavily on precog to win and gets rocked with little effort the moment it wears off, but she's also on the same level as people clearly overpowered by Colors and those of a similar tier (And just... is 13 levels off, not a small difference there)

Vergilius upscales from the Low 7-B feat, so Valencina downscaling from Vergilius results in her directly scaling to it instead. So if you want Valencina to be a Splitter then Vergilius would probably have to either directly scale or downscale to said feat. Also she can contend with the Sinner's Low 7-B Identitys without much trouble and most likely upscales from Araya and Sora so I think it's safe to say that she'd still scale to Low 7-B either way.

 

[MysticBrawler]

I already suggested to the user that Valencina should just get that stat for reactions and perceptions, so:

The Relativisstic rating seems to currently be in contention at the General Discussions thread so I prefer to wait until that gets sorted out before making any changes.

 

[DMUA]

Vergilius upscales from the Low 7-B feat, so Valencina downscaling from Vergilius results in her directly scaling to it instead. So if you want Valencina to be a Splitter then Vergilius would probably have to either directly scale or downscale to said feat. Also she can contend with the Sinner's Low 7-B Identitys without much trouble and most likely upscales from Araya and Sora so I think it's safe to say that she'd still scale to Low 7-B either way.

There's... so much wrong here.

Firstly, Vergilius does not upscale from that feat, no. It's performed by someone he's equal to clashing to someone whose 5 levels weaker, but also using an EGO to make up the difference. It's certainly not so much upscaling that someone who gets repeatedly pummeled and has to rely on evading the entire fight outside of winning maybe one clash should be capable of the same

While Sinners do have identities of Low 7-B characters like Lei Heng (Someone who actually fights a Color straight up for a prolonged period without any particular tricks, unlike Valencina), they clearly can't access that level of proficiency, otherwise they could just sicc Manager of LaManchaland at everything and basically never have an issue. This is even clearer when Sora mops the floor with them by popping her EGO and a Color Fixer weaker than Vergilius bails them out to resounding success

And just to be thorough, I don't think Araya is even a splitter, at least not in the state she's fought in Part 3 when the sinners manage to beat her. The skills that lower her attack power aren't just a gameplay thing, Ryoshu mentions how unusual it is that she keeps sheathing her sword mid fight and it's mentioned to be a bad habit formed from the fact her consciousness doesn't even consistently stay in the fight thanks to the temporal entanglement, she just ends up doing it to assure her she's even there (and when you clash with that skill you see that very interaction play out)

 

[MysticBrawler]

There's... so much wrong here.

Firstly, Vergilius does not upscale from that feat, no. It's performed by someone he's equal to clashing to someone whose 5 levels weaker, but also using an EGO to make up the difference. It's certainly not so much upscaling that someone who gets repeatedly pummeled and has to rely on evading the entire fight outside of winning maybe one clash should be capable of the same

Fair enough.

While Sinners do have identities of Low 7-B characters like Lei Heng (Someone who actually fights a Color straight up for a prolonged period without any particular tricks, unlike Valencina), they clearly can't access that level of proficiency, otherwise they could just sicc Manager of LaManchaland at everything and basically never have an issue. This is even clearer when Sora mops the floor with them by popping her EGO and a Color Fixer weaker than Vergilius bails them out to resounding success

Aren't Level Boost/Identity Training Tickets and Threadspinning cannon to the story? I think it's safe to say that they would be as strong as the original(if not stronger) after you've leveled them up.

And just to be thorough, I don't think Araya is even a splitter, at least not in the state she's fought in Part 3 when the sinners manage to beat her. The skills that lower her attack power aren't just a gameplay thing, Ryoshu mentions how unusual it is that she keeps sheathing her sword mid fight and it's mentioned to be a bad habit formed from the fact her consciousness doesn't even consistently stay in the fight thanks to the temporal entanglement, she just ends up doing it to assure her she's even there (and when you clash with that skill you see that very interaction play out)

Yeah that's my point. If Araya is Low 7-B then Valencina would most likely be as well since she has higher level compared to the former.

 

[DMUA]

Aren't Level Boost/Identity Training Tickets and Threadspinning cannon to the story? I think it's safe to say that they would be as strong as the original(if not stronger) after you've leveled them up.

The training tickets and threadspin are also meant to synchronize more effectively, letting the sinners gain more information and skills from the other identities (As the ticket's description mentions). It implies the opposite, that it takes a lot of work to even approach their level (And the fact the cap is 60 rather than 85, 83, or whatever else for identities that by all rights are that strong in their original world kinda tells you they don't quite go all the way)

Yeah that's my point. If Araya is Low 7-B then Valencina would most likely be as well since she has higher level compared to the former.

Araya is just certainly not, and I don't think she even really qualifies as a splitter in the state she's fought with how crippled she seems to be by being near Ryoshu's sword and her bad habit being exploited as it is, and the fact she's the only nursefather to be defeated without a much higher level outside support

 

[MusicRelaxing]

While Sinners do have identities of Low 7-B characters like Lei Heng (Someone who actually fights a Color straight up for a prolonged period without any particular tricks, unlike Valencina), they clearly can't access that level of proficiency, otherwise they could just sicc Manager of LaManchaland at everything and basically never have an issue. This is even clearer when Sora mops the floor with them by popping her EGO and a Color Fixer weaker than Vergilius bails them out to resounding success

^^^^^^
Identities seem just like hax bumps, not neccessarily amps on the tier. What I wrote in the general discussion thread is a theoretical if it was true, which, its not true
Threads, Tickets, the description of identities are amps to the ID's hax based abilities rather then adapting the former strength of the identity themselves- this is why levels exist and they're 1:1 with the sinners' actual stats outside of amps within the kits themselves

 

[MysticBrawler]

The training tickets and threadspin are also meant to synchronize more effectively, letting the sinners gain more information and skills from the other identities (As the ticket's description mentions). It implies the opposite, that it takes a lot of work to even approach their level (And the fact the cap is 60 rather than 85, 83, or whatever else for identities that by all rights are that strong in their original world kinda tells you they don't quite go all the way)

^^^^^^
Identities seem just like hax bumps, not neccessarily amps on the tier. What I wrote in the general discussion thread is a theoretical if it was true, which, its not true
Threads, Tickets, the description of identities are amps to the ID's hax based abilities rather then adapting the former strength of the identity themselves- this is why levels exist and they're 1:1 with the sinners' actual stats outside of amps within the kits themselves

So are you saying that the Sinners will never grow stronger regardless of how much time passes then? Plus many Identities have ranks like Association Director or Capo of The Thumb which we know are meant to signify one as being a fairly high-ranking fighter. So are all of those titles now meaningless? Cause that's what you would be implying by saying that none of the Identities are stronger than the Sinners own strength.

 

[MysticBrawler]

Araya is just certainly not, and I don't think she even really qualifies as a splitter in the state she's fought with how crippled she seems to be by being near Ryoshu's sword and her bad habit being exploited as it is, and the fact she's the only nursefather to be defeated without a much higher level outside support

You seem to be getting the wrong idea. I'm not talking about the last encounter where Araya is wounded by Ryoshu's sword, I'm talking about the first one where she's pretending to be Shiomi Yoru which is scripted to end with her wiping out all 12 Sinners with her finishing move regardless of what Identity they're using.

 

[MysticBrawler]

While Sinners do have identities of Low 7-B characters like Lei Heng (Someone who actually fights a Color straight up for a prolonged period without any particular tricks, unlike Valencina), they clearly can't access that level of proficiency, otherwise they could just sicc Manager of LaManchaland at everything and basically never have an issue. This is even clearer when Sora mops the floor with them by popping her EGO and a Color Fixer weaker than Vergilius bails them out to resounding success

Also I don't think this argument in particular works since we know Don's Bloodfiend abilities aren't affected by the limiter placed on the Sinners which should also be true for her mirror identity as well. Plus Don wasn't present when Sora was fought so I don't think we can use that as a disqualifier.

 

[MusicRelaxing]

So are you saying that the Sinners will never grow stronger regardless of how much time passes then? Plus many Identities have ranks like Association Director or Capo of The Thumb which we know are meant to signify one as being a fairly high-ranking fighter. So are all of those titles now meaningless? Cause that's what you would be implying by saying that none of the Identities are stronger than the Sinners own strength.

No, I'm not saying that the sinners will never grow stronger regardless of how much time passes. Saying that is a little weird especially since we grow in level in each Canto, but things like LCB Regular Checkup imply that they do get stronger over time, especially with things like A Certain Sinclair affirming that to be true.

I'm just saying that the scaling of the original character (Lei Heng) and the identity (Capo Meursault) are never 1:1 to eachother, Identities do amplify the sinners' abilities, not neccessarily their statistics in the sense that they'll copy over from eachother. Just because Capo Meursault is an identity to Lei Heng does not mean that they'll scale directly to him- I'm saying they're amplifications to their haxes/abilities, in the sense that they'd actually acquire unique abilities that their base IDs would not have.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

The Sinners do get stronger overtime, as a result of Dante's collection of the Golden Boughs. The contract binds them all to a specific level of power, though, and this nerfs the IDs they use as well. The IDs are not necessarily buff to strength, they just let them use the abilities of other characters... I mean otherwise, why did we lose to Lei Heng when we a Sancho ID, who is stronger than Lei Heng? Makes no sense.

Either way, OP's revisions are good.

 

[MysticBrawler]

No, I'm not saying that the sinners will never grow stronger regardless of how much time passes. Saying that is a little weird especially since we grow in level in each Canto, but things like LCB Regular Checkup imply that they do get stronger over time, especially with things like A Certain Sinclair affirming that to be true.

I'm just saying that the scaling of the original character (Lei Heng) and the identity (Capo Meursault) are never 1:1 to eachother, Identities do amplify the sinners' abilities, not neccessarily their statistics in the sense that they'll copy over from eachother. Just because Capo Meursault is an identity to Lei Heng does not mean that they'll scale directly to him- I'm saying they're amplifications to their haxes/abilities, in the sense that they'd actually acquire unique abilities that their base IDs would not have.

Ok then, what about their body augmentations? If they're meant to mirror a certain character then wouldn't they have the same augmentations as well?