Depends, if they just say that the character is stronger than Thor then their probably talking about Thor’s standard output, if they specifically mention that Thor isn’t holding back then it means the character is either stronger than Thor’s peak or it’s an outlier
Varies Usually High 3-A, High 1-B at peak.1-A with Special powers
He has a 9-A feat that he downscales from, which is ridiculous since he was absolutely fine not barely survive and I found other 9-A feats for characters around his tier and him, but it is what it is for now
Think i can use him as 9-B for a match?
I’d say yes because his profile doesn’t have a value for 9-B+, but i could be wrong
I meant that from what I recall, The pre-retcon Beyonder's High 1-B statement was used to work as a base floor minimum fundation for our cosmology, with other characters scaling to higher tiers from that, even though he was specifically compared to the sum totality of the entire Marvel multiverse at the time.
Him being comparable to the whole multiverse was retconnedI meant that from what I recall, The pre-retcon Beyonder's High 1-B statement was used to work as a base floor minimum fundation for our cosmology, with other characters scaling to higher tiers from that, even though he was specifically compared to the sum totality of the entire Marvel multiverse at the time.
Being able to create a universe does not at all mean you can’t be higher, and him being stronger than the abstracts was his delusion not him being infinite dimensional and the abstracts are higher than infinite dimensional so there’s no contradictionYes, but the point is that his entire stature, including narration, was retconned into a personal extreme delusion on his part, infinite-dimensional stature included. When reintroduced right after being retconned, he was explicitly defined as being able to create regular Low 2-C universes, and that was it.
I don't think we can pick and choose like that. Beyonder's power was retconned, so we can't use anything from Secret Wars 1.
Him being above the abstracts and his origin were retconned not everything about him, we aren’t picking and choosing, the retcon was he’s an incomplete cosmic cube and the abstracts were pretending to be weaker than him, none of that contradicts him being infinite dimensional
Strongly agreed. Fantastic Four #319 was very clear regarding the limitations of the post-retcon Beyonder's power. Anything before that should absolutely not be used for scaling in present continuity.
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You are picking and choosing. If we count the narration statement about The Beyonder being infinite-dimensional post-retcon, we also have to count the statement about him being millions of times more powerful than all entities within the Marvel multiverse combined, and we should not count either of them.
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Yes. Later he was matured from a cosmic cube into a full Beyonder, and 3 fully grown Beyonders combined were able to kill the Living Tribunal.
Also, when the post-retcon Beyonder was being beated up by the Molecule Man in a Fantastic Four annual, I think their battle was at the very best 5-dimensional.
I’m not picking and choosing, the statement of him being infinite dimensional isn’t contradicted by anything and is therefore fine, the statement of him being millions of times above the multiverse is contradicted by the fact that the abstracts were just pretending to be weaker than him and is therefore not fine, also logically he would know more about the dimensionality of himself then he would about the size of the multiverse that he just learned about
Do you have any form of proof other than vibes, because if not your opinion about that fight is irrelevant compared to what is canonically shownAlso, when the post-retcon Beyonder was being beated up by the Molecule Man in a Fantastic Four annual, I think their battle was at the very best 5-dimensional.
He isn’t the foundation, there is other stuff that says infinite dimensional, and him being at best low 1-C to 2-C is purely vibes, and no one has scaling to high 1-B literally everyone but a few outdated profiles is either higher or lower than high 1-B high 1-B is not currently a significant section of the cosmology, literally no one would be downgraded other than beyonderNo, the pre-retcon Beyonder was High 1-B, but I think that the post-retcon Beyonder was originally at best Low 1-C, and possibly just Low 2-C, and that everybody else whose scaling is built upon High 1-B as a foundation should be downgraded accordingly.
It is explicitly connected to his previous stature as a being that was millions of times more powerful than the sum totality of the Marvel multiverse. It is retconned information that was clearly deliberately contradicted in Fantastic Four #319 and Fantastic Four Annual #27 after Tom DeFalco nearly completely retconned the character. Again, you are definitely blatantly picking and choosing, and we need to strive for the highest possible accuracy, not the highest possible fan-exaggerations.
They were pushing themselves to their then limits during that confrontation.
So why are you so desperate to maintain blatantly inaccurate information in that case? Let's remove it and see what happens.
him being infinite dimensional has nothing to do with him thinking he’s bigger than the multiverse, like I already said there is a clear difference between those statements one is purely about himself which he should know all about, one is about him in relation to the multiverse the multiverse he had just learned about and likely didn’t understand how vast it was, and saying someone retconned him doesn’t mean anything to him being infinite dimensional unless they retconned him being infinite dimensional then that isn’t one of the things that was retconned, and I am striving for the most accuracy by including something that isn’t contradicted and him being infinite dimensional isn’t a fan exaggeration the comic said he’s infinite dimensional not the fans
It isn’t blatantly inaccurate, also one staff member thinking it should be removed isn’t enough to remove something according to our content revision rulesSo why are you so desperate to maintain blatantly inaccurate information in that case? Let's remove it and see what happens.
No I’m not verygoofytoddler, i would provide proof but i have no idea how to prove I’m not himAlso, you wouldn't happen to be @VeryGoofyToddler2 ? I get a similar impression from both of you, and you joined right after he was banned.
The point is that I am appealing for some sanity, reasonability, and cooperation here, rather than rampant fan-bias thirst for as exaggerated statistics as possible, so our wiki can become far more reliable and logically coherent, rather than a recurrent joke outside of our community.
Oh I thought beyonder said that not the narration, welp sorry about the dumb argument about him only thinking he was bigger than the whole multiverse, and on the stellar thing that argument has the flaw that he created the universe that those suns existed in so that wasn’t his limit and he just didn’t throw bigger stuffThe Beyonder didn't think that he was bigger than the multiverse. Jim Shooter's narrations described him as being millions of times bigger than the multiverse, just like narration described him as being infinite-dimensional. There is no difference in veracity between these two situations. However, Tom DeFalco truly hated the character, so after Jim Shooter was fired, he did everything he could to diminish The Beyonder's power as much as possible, and those limits were rather clearly defined within the stories I mentioned above. In fact, when Beyonder and Kubik battled, the Beyonder, among other things, was limited to throwing stellar objects in the universe he created at Kubik. Not exactly remotely a High 1-B battle.
Um harsh, I do my best to be sane and reasonable and cooperative, if I have given off the impression that I’m not those things then I promise I did not intend to not be those things, and I’m not bias towards marvel i try my best to treat verses equally when scaling them, and I’m not exaggerating statistics I’m using statistics I find in the comics, and our wiki being a recurrent joke has more to do with over 90% of powerscalers not being very good at powerscaling then it is from the accuracy of our wikiThe point is that I am appealing for some sanity, reaslnability, and cooperation here, rather than rampant fan-bias thirst for as exaggerated statistics as possible, so our wiki can become far more reliable and logically coherent, rather than the a recurrent joke.
Okay. I apologise if I am being too irritable here, but my available time is very limited, and I am extremely tired of going endlessly in circles trying to appeal to reason against people who want as high Marvel Comics statistics as possible, year in and year out, regardless that the current statistics do not make any coherent logical sense.
Him losing doesn’t mean he isn’t infinite dimensional it just means his opponent has power at an infinite dimensional level, if you think I’m wasting your time then you can agree to disagree for nowThe Beyonder explicitly tried to overpower Kubik in Fantastic Four #319, but failed and was defeated. He explicitly tried to overpower the Molecule Man in Fantastic Four Annual 27, but failed and was defeated. What I have described in my recent posts above are all facts as far as I am aware. I would much prefer to avoid arguing just for the sake of arguing, so we can all make progress and improve our wiki's reliability rather than maintain blatant extreme inaccuracies. I have to take care of our wiki and community, so stop wasting my tkme unnecessarily please. It is regrettably in very limited supply due to overwork.
That doesn't make any logical sense whatsoever within the context of the stories that post-Retcon Beyonder appeared in, as I explained above. As The Maker, The Beyonder was even stated to be less powerful than Aegis and Tenebrous, who even the Silver Surfer was able to be problematic for.
Those characters didn’t appear until after beyonder became 1-A so they aren’t the most relevant to whether or not beyonder is high 1-BThat doesn't make any logical sense whatsoever within the context of the stories that post-Retcon Beyonder appeared in, as I explained above. As The Maker, The Beyonder was even stated to be less powerful than Aegis and Tenebrous, who even the Silver Surfer was able to be problematic for.
You said “As The Maker, The Beyonder was even stated to be less powerful than Aegis and Tenebrous, who even the Silver Surfer was able to be problematic for.” Aegis first appeared in 2017, tenebrous first appeared in 2006, beyonder became 1-A in 1990, those characters are irrelevant to high 1-B him, also the maker was when beyonder turned himself into a mortal so not reliable for their full powerOh, for gods' sakes. I was referring to Thanos's statement about the Beyonder's Maker incarnation during the original Annihilation storyline, not Defenders Beyond, which happened many years afterwards, which is when The Beyonder was upgraded to Living Tribunal level.
Can you please stop arguing with me about things that you are not informed at all about? My apologies for being blunt, but, again, I have to take care of this community, and really don't have time for this kind of spammy nonsense.
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