Maou Gakuin Discussion Thread

[TheHyperGuy]

On the way

Are you actually intending on a thread soon? Is this using Firmament of the Gods and divine domains?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Are you actually intending on a thread soon? Is this using Firmament of the Gods and divine domains?

Not anytime soon @Tatsumi504 is the one who actually putting on effort.

 

[ElPapucho80]

Graham didn't actually resisted it. But whatever
Only Zinnia has feats and Amur should be able to by statements

And Duelniga and Emperor Aizel can get Logic Via Reason or nah?

 

[Cipher72]

Duelniga

Sounds like Paraconsistent Physiology
I am p sure you need strict feats/statements to get Logic Manip but they might get it.

 

[Dereck03]

I am p sure you need strict feats/statements to get Logic Manip but they might get it.

No when the verse is a logic manipulation merchant.

 

[ElPapucho80]

No when the verse is a logic manipulation merchant.

XD

 

[Dereck03]

Venuzdonoa little change

I was lurking Venuzdonoa's profile and noticed something. Higher degree of Law Manipulation (Venuzdonoa can passively override the logic that two identical energies cannot harm each other negating a character's immunity to certain attacks making them vulnerable to them, allowing a holy weapon...

vsbattles.com

Amimir

 

[Cipher72]

It appears that all this wank about Logic Manip revived Fixxed

Venuzdonoa very smol change

I was lurking Venuzdonoa's profile and noticed something. Higher degree of Law Manipulation (Venuzdonoa can passively override the logic that two identical energies cannot harm each other negating a character's immunity to certain attacks making them vulnerable to them, allowing a holy weapon...

vsbattles.com

 

[TheHyperGuy]

Is there any argument for Bde for God's, particularly Militia and Abernyu;

Inside Sarjieldenav, the Sun of Destruction, a blonde girl clutched her knees to her chest as she drifted through darkness. In this space without direction or dimension, she floated as though she were being carried by wind, rotating freely.

A silver-haired girl opened her eyes. The first thing her Divine Eyes reflected was a pure white sky. There was no up or down, nor left or right. As far as she could see, white continued in every direction.

Especially since they predates all other gods and orders by proxy;

"I don't know. There's no way of confirming
anything either," she mumbled.
Eldmed snickered. "Indeed, indeed. Such a thing is difficult to investigate. Nevertheless, answer me this: Did the gods come first, or dic the world come first? Which theory do you support?"
Sasha brought a hand to her mouth in thought before replying. "If I had to choose, I'd sav the gods..."
"And why is that?"
"If the world was born first, it would break apart without order to maintain it. I can't imagine it lasting for very long without the gods."
Without order, worlds would perish. A world without gods was too unstable to exist on
its own.

Is that going to be covered?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Is there any argument for Bde for God's, particularly Militia and Abernyu;



Especially since they predates all other gods and orders by proxy;

Is that going to be covered?

I think atleast type 1 works here idk

 

[TheHyperGuy]

I think atleast type 1 works here idk

Thats what i was thinking. If my R>F gets accepted, I want to try arguing for type 3 and try to argue for layered, but might not work cause its contradicting. But we got logic manip, so idk how that'll end up.

But I at least saw type 1 possible

 

[Glis]

Is there any argument for Bde for God's, particularly Militia and Abernyu;



Especially since they predates all other gods and orders by proxy;

Is that going to be covered?

Predating order doesn't imply lacking or being untied to its later extensions. For all we know, even Militia is bound to the rules of the world she creates.

 

[Glis]

All this predating order, removing order, and recreating order brings me back to a speculation I had before about order in general. I mean based on the material we have, order seems to be inherently local and unique to worlfs. It doesn't extend outside SS at all and vise versa, the sea is invariant to all orders and worlds. It simply encompasses them entirely.

The more fire and dew a miniature world possesses, the deeper it is located."

"Located" doesn't refer to location, but rather to the strength of that world's order"

Furthermore, its hierarchy was never stated to be spacial to begin with. It was ontological from the start, as depth and location are purely determined by the weight of order and firedew.

So the reccuring argument that deeper layer = higher dimension is just categorically incorrect, since this wasn't about physical attributes, it's reached through conceptual ascension.

It brings me to a somewhat vague induction that SS is something that should be invariant to all local orders, therefore, any form or additions of dimensions should not make any difference to it.(Low-1A?)

 

[TheHyperGuy]

Predating order doesn't imply lacking or being untied to its later extensions.

The reason why im arguing this isn't solely due to that. In the voids that exist within the sun of destruction and the moon of creation, they are statements of having no dimension as I showed.

Predating the orders is simply a supporting evidence that those places wont be dimensionally bounded since the orders of space and time ground dimensions within the series, evident with prior information I sent about dimensions. So in this sense, without those orders dimensions don't exist at least for that world. And beings that would exist absent of dimensionality, should qualify for bde 1 at least. At least thats the train of thought im at.

So unless that doesnt equate to bde, then I just need to know.

 

[Glis]

The reason why im arguing this isn't solely due to that. In the voids that exist within the sun of destruction and the moon of creation, they are statements of having no dimension as I showed.

Predating the orders is simply a supporting evidence that those places wont be dimensionally bounded since the orders of space and time ground dimensions within the series, evident with prior information I sent about dimensions. So in this sense, without those orders dimensions don't exist at least for that world. And beings that would exist absent of dimensionality, should qualify for bde 1 at least. At least thats the train of thought im at.

So unless that doesnt equate to bde, then I just need to know.

Except we've seen both Sarjieldenav and Altiertonoa subjected to the order of space in v10. So the "voids" inside them can't be aspacial.

 

[TheHyperGuy]

Except we've seen both Sarjieldenav and Altiertonoa subjected to the order of space in v10. So the "voids" inside them can't be aspacial.

In what way? I don't remember any specific situations that would contradict that, i mightve just forgot since im rereading the novel as we speak so I havent really gotten too far into volume 10 part 1 yet.

 

[Glis]

“I get why Delsgade and Everastanzetta are here, but why are
Sarjieldenav and Altiertonoa here as well?” Sasha asked as we carefully
flew towards the temple. “Aren’t they in the earth’s sky right now?”
“They’re inside,” Misha said, pointing at the triangular gate. “The order
of space in there is weird.”
“Hmm. So it seems,” I agreed. “It looks like the space within the
temple itself is unstable. The gate appears to be placing the Sun of
Destruction and Moon of Creation in two different coordinates at once.”
“So the Sun of Destruction we see is both here and on earth at the same
time?” Sasha asked.
“Pretty much. Simply put, Sarjieldenav itself is acting as a gate
connecting the Divine Realm to the earth. Thus, it can exist in two places
at once.”

“Yes. They could destroy the Sun of Destruction if they’re able to pass
through the sky of destruction before the Solar Eclipse of the End is
completed, but with that gate it’s very possible for the Sun of Destruction
to be moved beforehand.”
All that had to be changed were the coordinates in the spell formula.
Anyone on earth who tried to get near the Sun of Destruction would
sacrifice themselves for nothing.

Both from volume 10 part 1 chapter 23. The sun and moon are implied to be influenced by the order of space, or at the very least abide by its framework.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Predating order doesn't imply lacking or being untied to its later extensions. For all we know, even Militia is bound to the rules of the world she creates.

But Militia and Abernyu's domains are beyond typical dimensions

All this predating order, removing order, and recreating order brings me back to a speculation I had before about order in general. I mean based on the material we have, order seems to be inherently local and unique to worlfs. It doesn't extend outside SS at all and vise versa, the sea is invariant to all orders and worlds. It simply encompasses them entirely.

They actually extend out into the sea so they're not unique to worlds. They're technically lesser extensions of the silver sea's order itself as that's what binds the goddess of creation even before she can create the world.

I agree with the rest btw, can I get your discord?

 

[Tatsumi504]

Both from volume 10 part 1 chapter 23. The sun and moon are implied to be influenced by the order of space, or at the very least abide by its framework.

They aren't influenced by it. Equis just made the sun and moon occupy two coordinates at the same time.

That aside, their respective domains are what are aspacial not the sun and moon. Technically it's not that they lack space and dimensions but that they're beyond it after all, the Goddess of Creation's domain is occupies a position where it can view the entire world at the same time

 

[Glis]

But Militia and Abernyu's domains are beyond typical dimensions

Not to the point of being beyond dimensionality

They actually extend out into the sea so they're not unique to worlds. They're technically lesser extensions of the silver sea's order itself as that's what binds the goddess of creation even before she can create the world.

What I meant was that order in general mainly function locally. It flows outward yes, but we know that the movement of firedew and order in the sea mainly happens because shallow worlds leak them(an artificial phenomenon), not because the sea generate a neutral meta order(Something that remains as a speculation until now.)

The closest meta order we have is the order of shallow to deep, which you could still argue as artificial since SS at it's dawn never had such order to begin with.

I agree with the rest btw, can I get your discord?

It's glis2551, though I barely interact with the app.

 

[Glis]

They aren't influenced by it. Equis just made the sun and moon occupy two coordinates at the same time.

Which is still influencing what the other person claimed to have an internal properties of being aspatial.

That aside, their respective domains are what are aspacial not the sun and moon. Technically it's not that they lack space and dimensions but that they're beyond it after all, the Goddess of Creation's domain is occupies a position where it can view the entire world at the same time

If you mean the celestial globe, the reason they can view the entire world from a seemingly higher position is because they are inside the Lunar Eclipse of Origin which projects the view from above both realms.

“We’re inside the Lunar Eclipse of Origin. The Celestial
Globe overlooks the world.”
The white world at our feet melted like snow, soft and gentle. Eventually, the
dying world split into four, and the Divine Realm—now on the brink of collapse
—came into view.
The Lunar Eclipse of Origin was currently in the sky of both the Divine
Realm and the earth. We were overlooking both from within.

 

[ElPapucho80]

 

[Tatsumi504]

Not to the point of being beyond dimensionality

I'd beg to differ actually given dimensionality itself shouldn't exist without order. I'd say they were initially but due to how order interacts with itself, it applies to them after the world is created (should note it isn't dimensions itself but the order which oversees dimensions). Even so, both realms even after the initial creation are devoid of dimensions and exists at a plane beyond both the mortal realm (reality subject to order) and the divine realm (the world of the Gods not formed from material substance but order itself) but I'm no expert on this.

What I meant was that order in general mainly function locally. It flows outward yes, but we know that the movement of firedew and order in the sea mainly happens because shallow worlds leak them(an artificial phenomenon), not because the sea generate a neutral meta order(Something that remains as a speculation until now.)

Yeah it definitely functions locally

The closest meta order we have is the order of shallow to deep, which you could still argue as artificial since SS at it's dawn never had such order to begin with.

It's not that it was never there to begin with but all worlds were in equilibrium. Neither magic power, order and firedew leaked out so all worlds were at the same level or maybe evolved worlds where a level deeper than unevolved ones as birth of purists naturally strengthens order leading towards its unification and causes them to sink a level lower.
Militia had no purists so even after its order was unified, it remained in the same layer. The actions of the Just emperor just made it possible for worlds to steal from each other and empower themselves

It's glis2551, though I barely interact with the app.

Thanks

 

[Reiner04]

King stopped glazing Anos and started glazing diablo

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

King stopped glazing Anos and started glazing diablo

You like Breeze opinion rejected

 

[Reiner04]

You like Breeze opinion rejected

I like all my slaves except breeze

 

[Glis]

I'd beg to differ actually given dimensionality itself shouldn't exist without order. I'd say they were initially but due to how order interacts with itself, it applies to them after the world is created (should note it isn't dimensions itself but the order which oversees dimensions). Even so, both realms even after the initial creation are devoid of dimensions and exists at a plane beyond both the mortal realm (reality subject to order) and the divine realm (the world of the Gods not formed from material substance but order itself) but I'm no expert on this.

I'm not sure either. Afaik, predation is only valid if the quality of being unbound persist regardless of later extentions. But, I guess it's better to leave those to the experts.

It's not that it was never there to begin with but all worlds were in equilibrium. Neither magic power, order and firedew leaked out so all worlds were at the same level or maybe evolved worlds where a level deeper than unevolved ones as birth of purists naturally strengthens order leading towards its unification and causes them to sink a level lower.
Militia had no purists so even after its order was unified, it remained in the same layer. The actions of the Just emperor just made it possible for worlds to steal from each other and empower themselves

Which makes me wonder if that order is really foundational, instead of simply being a reaction or a contingent force born through structural change. If so, then it implies that Silver Sea doesn't necessarily have to exist with it.

Thanks

Np

 

[Cipher72]

King stopped glazing Anos and started glazing diablo

I can see the 1-A Tensura CRT from miles away. Although I am curious on the approach that he is gonna take.

 

[ElPapucho80]

But when 1-A Misfit CRT ??

 

[Reiner04]

But when 1-A Misfit CRT ??

Ask @Fixxed

 

[Dereck03]

Ask @Fixxed

Bro can't do anything without MTL.

 

[Reiner04]

Bro can't do anything without MTL.

He told me he is learning jap to wank

 

[Dereck03]

He told me he is learning jap to wank

Bro can't even type his native language nor English, he ain't doing shit learning JP

Cracked JP must be

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Bro is trying to violate every language in existence

 

[ElPapucho80]

 

[Reiner04]

Bro is trying to violate every language in existence

Language concept is Fixxed victim

 

[TheHyperGuy]

Both from volume 10 part 1 chapter 23. The sun and moon are implied to be influenced by the order of space, or at the very least abide by its framework.

I will say thats pretty damning for the structures of them, but why would this pertain to the voids within them? If their projection into the earth or divine sky can be controlled by the order of space, doesn't mean the space within them changes.

And "abiding" by the framework doesn't seem correct, since it specifically stated they were blessed by the order or that their coordinates were.

“According to the information Lord Anos gained in the Divine Realm, the coordinates of the Sun of Destruction have been blessed by order. It’s capable of teleporting anywhere on earth,”

This seems like a temporary situation that projects the sun and moon to earth while simultaneously leaving their true structures within the divine realm.

But the main argument remains, on why this has anything to do with the voids within. Are the voids somehow subjected to what the structure themselves are subjected to?

Considering the the sun and moon take uo finite space within the divine realm, the earth's sky or the dark firmament, but yet are infinite inside, there's a clear disconnect from whats their structure on the outside to their structure on the inside.

 

[ElPapucho80]

 

[Glis]

I will say thats pretty damning for the structures of them, but why would this pertain to the voids within them? If their projection into the earth or divine sky can be controlled by the order of space, doesn't mean the space within them changes.

And "abiding" by the framework doesn't seem correct, since it specifically stated they were blessed by the order or that their coordinates were.

This seems like a temporary situation that projects the sun and moon to earth while simultaneously leaving their true structures within the divine realm.

But the main argument remains, on why this has anything to do with the voids within. Are the voids somehow subjected to what the structure themselves are subjected to?

Considering the the sun and moon take uo finite space within the divine realm, the earth's sky or the dark firmament, but yet are infinite inside, there's a clear disconnect from whats their structure on the outside to their structure on the inside.

I think this would be more viable if we can find a strong evidence that distinguishes the physical and limited structure from the voids inside them. I've also been thinking about the possibility of the Sun or Moon being conditional boundaries instead that acts as a passage leading towards an aspatial/non metric world. So it makes sense for the structures to cover finite areas or br subjected by spacial properties while internally being non dimensional.

So far, I could only relate it to Militia's Ice Worlds which is small if seen from the outside but carries an infinitely vast space inside.

 

[Ddzn]

Abyss Magic can get Logic Manipulation? Also Zinnia's eyes could resist Chaotic eyes so?

Also, Graham true form can resist it since his true form is outside order and reason to IIRC.

Wank, wank, wank

No Abyss magic would just fall under nonduality/transduality (if it gets accepted for the verse), Zinnia even proclaimed himself that a logic manipulation feat was impossible so I don’t see any aspects of logic manipulation we can give it.

His eyes didn’t resist chaotic eyes, he was merely just emitting infinite darkness which was getting blown away by chaos. Think of a flame thrower constantly burning and wind repelling its direction, this is what was happening he didn’t resist it at all, his magical power was just extremely deep that the bottom of their abyss’ would be the deciding factor of the outcome. It’s merely a case of who has more MP in the tank not resistence.

Idk about Graham’s true form, it may just be a case of nonduality/transduality aswell, but he should already have it via <Veneziara>.