Power of Bonds ≥ Power of Love CRT (Mario Series)

[Galactidot]

A short, simple, straightforward CRT to update the Power of Love To be equivalent to the Power of Bonds, and key them as the same thing.
The Pure Hearts have Abstract Existence, presenting themselves as love taken form. It is known to exist across the entire cosmology.
Bonds encompass love and all other forms of connection, and are also a multiversal constant. Whether Mario and Paper Mario are the same character is therefore irrelevant.

Therefore, The Power of Bonds and Power of Love are the same thing. Alternatively:

Power of Bonds ≥ Power of Love
(Via containing the concept)

As I said, short, simple, and straightforward.

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Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

This checks out, I agree with this, albeit I'd argue that the Power of Bonds is more all-encompassing than the Power of Love.

 

[Galactidot]

This checks out, I agree with this, albeit I'd argue that the Power of Bonds is more all-encompassing than the Power of Love.

Bonds encompass love and all other forms of connection, and are also a multiversal constant. Whether Mario and Paper Mario are the same character is therefore irrelevant.

Therefore, The Power of Bonds and Power of Love are the same thing. Alternatively:

Power of Bonds ≥ Power of Love
(Via containing the concept)

 

[AyOgUyS]

seems simple, i agree

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with this.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Is there anything more substantial for treating them as exactly the same thing? Not sure if both just being like "yeah the power of love makes you stronger" is enough to bridge the gap and say they're both meant to be the exact same thing and listed as part of the same profile? Not that it really changes anything anyway since functionally it's just emotional based stat amping.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Is there anything more substantial for treating them as exactly the same thing? Not sure if both just being like "yeah the power of love makes you stronger" is enough to bridge the gap and say they're both meant to be the exact same thing and listed as part of the same profile? Not that it really changes anything anyway since functionally it's just emotional based stat amping.

Emotional Amp combined with "Power of Unity" to be specific. But there are plenty of examples, and "Love" hasn't even have to be romantic, but it could be due to platonic friendships or family traditions. "Love" is what can form any type of bond; and it's still ultimately a two sides of the same coin situation but embody the same concept. And anything that is one or the other is kind of both by default.

But there are plenty of cases to think of where it is indeed a legit amp.

• Mario Galaxy games, it is said Mario's love for Peach was the reason not even a Grand Star amplification could turn the tables against Mario
  • Or by extension, any game with an amplified version of Bowser involves either Mario being motivated to save Peach and/or being united with Luigi turned tables against Dreamy Bowser
  • This also includes Peach enhancing the power of the Star Spirits wish powers in Paper Mario
  • In the Super Mario RPG remake, Power of Bonds are how all the team attacks/meters
  • In both SMRPG and Paper Mario series, FP is shared with entire party
  • Bro Points is the M&L series version of MP/Mana from pretty much every other RPG, Psynergy from Golden Sun, or PK from Earthbound/Mother series
• Everyone all throughout the various locations in TTYD where who amped Mario and Crystal Stars to turn tables against Shadow Queen
• It's not limited to heroes, various enemies can also get amps based on Power of Bonds. In Bowser's Minions, a common them kind of showcases a "United we stand, divided we fall" tradition.
  • That also explains how Goomba and Troopa hoards can sometimes overwhelm Bowser or Fitness trio in large groups
  • Bowser Jr's bond with Bowser has also demonstrated being an amplification in some games. As well as something he can use to amplify minions due to "Hurting Jr."

 

[Galactidot]

bump

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Makes sense to me.

 

[Poketmonsrs]

This all makes sense so I agree

 

[AlloyAmi]

I disagree because the premise of this crt is trying to equate anyone's love to a full pure hearts level amp which is wrong. The pure hearts are very clearly special items created by the ancients that are directly stated to amplify love energy with them even seeing the power of love from the pure hearts to be infinite.

The basic concept of love sure, bonds would include that, but this shouldn't include what the pure hearts do, which again, they are a unique item that amplifies said energy to do things far beyond what brothership shows.

The Ancients creating the Pure Hearts from their love is a unique thing that can't be replicated, with them even going out of their way to research this power in order to harness and amplify them for power with them. No other character in SPM when displaying love, even during Bleck and Tippi's wedding, causes anything like the Pure Hearts to be made. Bonds don't draw out anything like that and should be very noted that they are ONLY an amp when poured onto characters with a unique item: the bonding can. Equating everyone's love feelings to the power of pure hearts undermines the entire purpose of the macguffin existing and the lore behind their creation involving the ancients.

This is also why i disagree with all of DDMs examples as well which i have a feeling would be used as an excuse to argue for higher tiered feats that I do agree they should scale to a multitude of, but I do not think this is the way to scale them to it. Power of bonds love friendship and whatnot is a thing throughout the games and is a general trope in fiction, but is it literally NEVER treated as an amp at all, especially not in the way brothership does which i again will repeat is uniquely done via an ITEM that has to directly collect and be filled with bond energy and then be poured onto the bros. Mario having a desire to save who he loves, or working alongside luigi would NOT be an amp they get, nor is it ever treated as so. stuff like peach and wishing is situational because star spirits whole job is granting wishes and they decided to use those wishes to amp themselves. The rest of the examples are just "characters can sometimes stronger attacks with this". Bowsers minions legitimately can just scale to the main cast at times depending on the game, though fodder enemies especially in hordes can sometimes ignore tier division that a scalers would see within the media itself since the creators dont see it in the same literal way we would interpret it in a scaling sense. The elite trio boss fight is a good example of this in mario itself. This is also more notable in comics covering game franchises where fodder hazards and enemies can sometimes deal damage to the mc that we would normally dismiss as game mechanics within the game itself.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It's not really intended to scale to McGuffins that extent the concept further, or at least my ends aren't. Pure Hearts in SPM and many other similar McGuffins such as Power/Grand Stars are more or less similar to Philosopher Stones in FMA. FMA Alchemy is a Non-Physical Energy system used for a variety of powers and abilities, Philosophers stones are mystical objects both empowered by Alchemy that also multiplies it exponentially (Though no specific multiplier is assumed), but still not a counter argument against Alchemy being an energy system let alone not a non-physical energy system.

It's the same thing here. Pure Hearts may still be infinitely superior to everything else in the verse thus far, but it doesn't take away the main concept of "Power of Love/Bond" being a universal energy system (Or at least any kind of energy system) that requires two or more people working together. Same with Power Stars or Grand Stars may be an amp, but wouldn't be a counterargument to existence terminologies such as Star Power or Flower Power being commonly listed energy systems.

 

[Galactidot]

It's not really intended to scale to McGuffins that extent the concept further, or at least my ends aren't. Pure Hearts in SPM and many other similar McGuffins such as Power/Grand Stars are more or less similar to Philosopher Stones in FMA. FMA Alchemy is a Non-Physical Energy system used for a variety of powers and abilities, Philosophers stones are mystical objects both empowered by Alchemy that also multiplies it exponentially (Though no specific multiplier is assumed), but still not a counter argument against Alchemy being an energy system let alone not a non-physical energy system.

It's the same thing here. Pure Hearts may still be infinitely superior to everything else in the verse thus far, but it doesn't take away the main concept of "Power of Love/Bond" being a universal energy system (Or at least any kind of energy system) that requires to or more people working together. Same with Power Stars or Grand Stars may be an amp, but wouldn't be a counterargument to existence terminologies such as Star Power or Flower Power being commonly listed energy systems.

I'm not scaling any two dudes holding hands to the Pure Hearts

But I am saying that Pure Hearts are in fact made of bonds.

The Ancients creating the Pure Hearts from their love is a unique thing that can't be replicated, with them even going out of their way to research this power in order to harness and amplify them for power with them.

No other character in SPM when displaying love, even during Bleck and Tippi's wedding, causes anything like the Pure Hearts to be made. Bonds don't draw out anything like that and should be very noted that they are ONLY an amp when poured onto characters with a unique item: the bonding can. Equating everyone's love feelings to the power of pure hearts undermines the entire purpose of the macguffin existing and the lore behind their creation involving the ancients.

What I find funny is that you just said that the Pure Hearts are made by amplifying the love of only two people in order to set it apart from the Bonding Can...

Which ALSO works by amplifying bonds, but between MANY people, and is similarly channeled through an artifact that the whole dimension worships.

My CRT is just here to show that bonds are energy, and the Pure Hearts are made of Bonds.
You did nothing to dispute that, and honestly gave more evidence.

Also, someone clearly forgot that each chapter of Super Paper Mario revolves around SUMMONING or POWERING the Pure Hearts with bonds, I've played that game like 18 times no joke

For example, Tippi summons and powers a Pure Heart when Mario saves her from Francis. Stuff like this happens every chapter.

 

[AlloyAmi]

now im just confused, because the purpose of my reply wasnt to say bonds dont include love which i directly say they should:

"The basic concept of love sure, bonds would include that, but this shouldn't include what the pure hearts do, which again, they are a unique item that amplifies said energy to do things far beyond what brothership shows."

The way the crt is outlined presents it that the amp of bonds in brothership would be above specifically the pure hearts amp in super paper mario due to bonds containing the idea of love and you even linked the page. the purpose of my evidence was to show that the pure hearts go beyond just the basic idea of power of love, and theres more behind them that makes them that powerful, which is why i heavily highlighted the part where it detects and greatly amplifies love energy which is what the ancients were able to make said artifacts do after extensive research.

if thats not the purpose what is the point of this crt? putting the bond amp on the pure hearts page? to that i would also disagree because pure hearts are a clearly separately defined artifact masterfully created by the ancients. If you want you can make a bonds page, and saying the pure hearts utilize it in some way on the hax list sure. but bonds (In context of an amp) isnt really treated as something amp wise in any game besides of brothership (where they are specifically poured with it) which is why i dont really like bringing up all these past games to try to connect it to this to suggest they are amped immensely for final bosses, or really amped at all as a form of "universal energy system" (which im assuming is the intention, correct me if im wrong). at most they would unlock new techniques and abilities that involves working together like any team attack really like in teamwork in any media like Mega Man X8's double attack guage and to that, sure ig?

 

[Galactidot]

Bump

 

[JPTheGamer]

Yeah, seems simple enough. Put me in agreement

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

OP looks fine to me.

 

[IDK3465]

I agree with the crt, but given how virtually everyone in the verse can on some level access the power of bonds, shouldn’t we give it it’s own dedicated ability page so that we don’t need to edit hundreds of profiles every time we give them a new ability?

 

[Lou_change]

The way the crt is outlined presents it that the amp of bonds in brothership would be above specifically the pure hearts amp in super paper mario due to bonds containing the idea of love and you even linked the page. the purpose of my evidence was to show that the pure hearts go beyond just the basic idea of power of love, and theres more behind them that makes them that powerful, which is why i heavily highlighted the part where it detects and greatly amplifies love energy which is what the ancients were able to make said artifacts do after extensive research.

I don't think he is saying that any use of bond energy is superior to love just love in mario is a subset of bonds the only time love for anything others than other people is implied to have power to my knowledge is sparkla from princess peach showtime which I believe is connected to the residents of the theatre's love of the theatre but even then that probably includes the people. In sll other cases love power is ths result of sapient beings caring for each other