Superman speed upgrade and abilities addition

[Rgerdeena]

Well, green Kryptonite is a poison, not power nullification.

According to dc database “Green Kryptonite radiation interferes with a Kryptonian's ability to absorb and process solar radiation which explains why Kryptonians lose abilities, and are severely weakened by it even when outside in direct exposure to the light of a yellow sun. It also contaminates the energy already stored within a fully powered Kryptonian's body” and that sounds a lot like it’s nullifying their powers

Yes, but one that happened before the ones in other Superman comicbook where he does not have a golden form, if I remember correctly.

it didn’t mention any Superman comics that are after when he got the golden form, also just because he doesn’t use the golden form in every comic that takes place after he gets the golden form doesn’t mean he can’t use the golden form

 

[Antvasima]

According to dc database “Green Kryptonite radiation interferes with a Kryptonian's ability to absorb and process solar radiation which explains why Kryptonians lose abilities, and are severely weakened by it even when outside in direct exposure to the light of a yellow sun. It also contaminates the energy already stored within a fully powered Kryptonian's body” and that sounds a lot like it’s nullifying their powers

Okay, but it still currently seems to have been an ability that he lost some time ago, as Dan Slott's run is disconnected from the other current Superman comicbooks, where he does not use it ever, and these events were placed in the past in "History of the DC Universe".

 

[Rgerdeena]

Okay, but it still currently seems to have been an ability that he lost some time ago

he got it in 2025

as Dan Slott's run is disconnected from the other current Superman comicbooks

What do you mean by disconnected

where he does not use it ever

that doesn’t mean he can’t use it in those

and these events were placed in the past in "History of the DC Universe".

It was literally on nearly the last page, the same page as a bunch of other stuff that just happened

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the Dan Slott stories do not happen at the same time in the current DC Comics chronology, and, from what I recall, it was officially stated to happen some time before the current main stories of the DC. K.O. event and its tie-ins.

 

[Rgerdeena]

Well, the Dan Slott stories do not happen at the same time in the current DC Comics chronology, and, from what I recall, it was officially stated to happen some time before the current main stories of the DC. K.O. event and its tie-ins.

The first issue of his run takes place from the 1980s through October or November of 2025, all the issues after the first one take place after the first issue ended

 

[Legion350]

According to dc database “Green Kryptonite radiation interferes with a Kryptonian's ability to absorb and process solar radiation which explains why Kryptonians lose abilities, and are severely weakened by it even when outside in direct exposure to the light of a yellow sun. It also contaminates the energy already stored within a fully powered Kryptonian's body” and that sounds a lot like it’s nullifying their powers

it didn’t mention any Superman comics that are after when he got the golden form, also just because he doesn’t use the golden form in every comic that takes place after he gets the golden form doesn’t mean he can’t use the golden form

I think we should treat Kryptonite resistance as a form of Radiation Resistance, instead of considering it to be Power Nullification. I get your argument for considering it power nullification, because of how the statement notes that Kryptonite interferes with his abilities and weakens him. However, I still disagree with classifying it as Power Nullification. Superman is powered by a specific form of radiation [solar] and Kryptonite limits how much he can take in. But it’s not like Kryptonite is directly weakening him according to your statement, it’s just messing with his metabolism of solar radiation.

Here’s an hypothetical analogy that I hope explains my viewpoint. If you have Character A who gets his powers from X but is also allergic to Y, which slowly infects his powers from X, this doesn’t mean Y is nullifying his powers. It means the fictional allergy is a weakness of his physiology.

Terrible hypothetical situation aside, there are pages for other comic alt universe versions of Superman, that treat resistance to Kryptonite as being analogous to resistance against radiation.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think we should treat Kryptonite resistance as a form of Radiation Resistance, instead of considering it to be Power Nullification. I get your argument for considering it power nullification, because of how the statement notes that Kryptonite interferes with his abilities and weakens him. However, I still disagree with classifying it as Power Nullification. Superman is powered by a specific form of radiation [solar] and Kryptonite limits how much he can take in. But it’s not like Kryptonite is directly weakening him according to your statement, it’s just messing with his metabolism of solar radiation.

Here’s an hypothetical analogy that I hope explains my viewpoint. If you have Character A who gets his powers from X but is also allergic to Y, which slowly infects his powers from X, this doesn’t mean Y is nullifying his powers. It means the fictional allergy is a weakness of his physiology.

Terrible hypothetical situation aside, there are pages for other comic alt universe versions of Superman, that treat resistance to Kryptonite as being analogous to resistance against radiation.

Yeah, and there are like more than 30 different color variants of Kryptonite, with some of them even doing positive effects. But the way Green Kryptonite works is that it's basically a Kryptonian's version ultraviolet radiation allergy + heat exhaustion that can also result in skin cancer in prolonged periods. And ironically, extended sun radiation absorption is also Superman's equivalent of drinking lots of water and using good sunscreen that make him get a temporary resistance to green kryptonite similar to how humans can momentarily be less sensitive to heat waves using aforementioned practices.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Legion350 here.

Also, I am pretty sure that the recent "History of the DC Universe" chronology series placed the Dan Slott stories some time before the current events. Can somebody verify please?

 

[Rgerdeena]

I think we should treat Kryptonite resistance as a form of Radiation Resistance, instead of considering it to be Power Nullification. I get your argument for considering it power nullification, because of how the statement notes that Kryptonite interferes with his abilities and weakens him. However, I still disagree with classifying it as Power Nullification. Superman is powered by a specific form of radiation [solar] and Kryptonite limits how much he can take in. But it’s not like Kryptonite is directly weakening him according to your statement, it’s just messing with his metabolism of solar radiation.

Here’s an hypothetical analogy that I hope explains my viewpoint. If you have Character A who gets his powers from X but is also allergic to Y, which slowly infects his powers from X, this doesn’t mean Y is nullifying his powers. It means the fictional allergy is a weakness of his physiology.

Terrible hypothetical situation aside, there are pages for other comic alt universe versions of Superman, that treat resistance to Kryptonite as being analogous to resistance against radiation.

resistance to radiation wouldn’t make sense because he’s able to absorb radiation so kryptonite being radioactive probably isn’t the reason why it’s a problem for him, tbh I just went with resistance to power nullification because his page already gives him resistance to power nullification via Genesis tech protecting him from kryptonite and I figured it was better to just use what’s already accepted on his page as what kryptonite does instead of having a debate over what kryptonite actually does but clearly that didn’t work, I think that just a “resistance to effects of kryptonite” would be the best option since what kryptonite actually does to him is very vague other than it weakens him and messes with his powers

 

[Rgerdeena]

Also, I am pretty sure that the recent "History of the DC Universe" chronology series placed the Dan Slott stories some time before the current events. Can somebody verify please?

I can verify that the opposite is true because it literally had Him gaining the golden form is on the same page as a bunch of other stuff that just happened

 

[Rex_Eckles]

he’s able to absorb radiation so kryptonite being radioactive

Radiation comes in a whole spectrum of wavelengths, my guess is that Clark's form makes him immune to an additional wavelength more than normal.

 

[Rgerdeena]

Radiation comes in a whole spectrum of wavelengths, my guess is that Clark's form makes him immune to an additional wavelength more than normal.

There’s also the fact that, kryptonite doesn’t give Superman cancer it messes with his powers and weakens him but it doesn’t give him cancer, whereas it gave Lex luthor cancer because that is what radiation does to beings who don’t resist radiation, so Superman not getting cancer from it shows that it is not the radiation that’s a problem for him

 

[Rex_Eckles]

There’s also the fact that, kryptonite doesn’t give Superman cancer it messes with his powers and weakens him but it doesn’t give him cancer, whereas it gave Lex luthor cancer because that is what radiation does to beings who don’t resist radiation, so Superman not getting cancer from it shows that it is not the radiation that’s a problem for him

Or at least the radiation affects his cells differently.

 

[Rgerdeena]

Or at least the radiation affects his cells differently.

how would it be more likely that the radiation emitted from kryptonite is one of the very few frequencies not emitted by the sun(since Superman ca obviously absorb any frequency emitted by the sun) and causes his body to have a completely different response then earth life, then it is that we just don’t know how it does the stuff it does to him and just happens to be radioactive

 

[Eficiente]

Superman is capable of accelerating fast enough to time travel

I covered the issues there here and here. Against the arguments in the former link, it has been said that Superman meant to say that time travel would disturb the timeline rather than him not knowing where he would end up in the timeline, but the latter link shows this is not the case. Ignoring how I was already arguing that was not the case before that.

I can see the comment saying "X made better arguments, so Imm. speed goes" but how does those arguments counter this? Can we be more direct about it?

 

[FroYoSans]

I'm personally still struggling to understand how Immeasurable Speed Superman, even if just at his peak, is that crazy. I mean he's the Cosmic lich pin of DC, whole narratives revolve around him and his story, he consistently has to be the one to fight and beat the toughest of foes.

But honestly that's mostly feelings, I can give a few scans from the modern run that would contradict Immeasurable Speed Superman. Immeasurable Speed characters shouldn't be able to statue one another (especially without added layers). And yet what happens?

From The Flash Vol 6 Issue 19 Superman can't touch Flash, Wally has gotten fast enough that he doesn't need time in order to move

This makes sense as earlier in the Flash series (Issues 11 and 12) Flash travels beyond the Infinity of the Source Wall

Now based on where this site lists the Deep Change this should be an Immeasurable feat however narratively this is clearly supposed to be an example of Infinite speed. Note that Wally had to push himself super hard to do this and no one else was able to get there without Jai effectively "rending space" to teleport them there. Further Note Simon Spurrier hasn't had the Flash time travel a single time, hasn't hinted at them doing so it was only when he stopped writing that time travel got integrated for them again, when Mark Waid came in and does what he does best and says "we're going faster than the speed of light" which entirely goes against everything previously established (much like Waid ignoring Flash's ability to fly via the Speed Force) the only thing I can say about this is that it proves they can navigate time even with it being disrupted by Omega Energy

The final nail in the coffin really is during the Justice League Omega Act Special where Wally is entirely unaffected by Time Trapper Doomsday's time stop, effectively proving he can statue the league. Furthermore when Doomsday says he might not be able to navigate them back through broken time Wally can

So even though it feels wrong not giving Superman Immeasurable speed...it's just not supported in the narrative, give him the ability to time travel but Immeasurable Speed can't be applied

The only way you could argue Immeasurable Speed Superman from this would be to argue that Wally is like a layer deeper into Immeasurable Speed Than him

 

[Ozcantabak]

The only way you could argue Immeasurable Speed Superman from this would be to argue that Wally is like a layer deeper into Immeasurable Speed Than him

I don't think wiki has a layer system for Immeasurable Speed like it does for abilities/resistances, but it does accept that a immeasurable character can be faster than other Immeasurable characters.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

The only way you could argue Immeasurable Speed Superman from this would be to argue that Wally is like a layer deeper into Immeasurable Speed Than him

Superman being Immeasurable wouldn't prevent any other character like Wally to be faster than he is

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I don't think wiki has a layer system for Immeasurable Speed like it does for abilities/resistances, but it does accept that a immeasurable character can be faster than other Immeasurable characters.

Technically, characters can have scaling chains where gap two or more Immeasurable speed characters is bigger than the gap between another Immeasurable speed character and a finite speed character. Or where they can travel between more than one temporal dimension as if it were a spatial dimension. But they often require substantial evidence.

But as many others said, there are plenty of cases where Speedsters needed to be drastically amped more than usual just to perform Infinite speed feats. And even without amps on those levels, Flash has still consistently been portrayed as astronomically faster than the rest of the JLA. Now when he doesn't move, his lifting strength isn't any better than someone like Batman's. And that's the reason he needs to move so much faster in order to generate KE punches on the level of Superman or Wonder Woman; though even in more extreme cases he outright surpasses them when he goes all out in speed.

 

[FroYoSans]

I don't think wiki has a layer system for Immeasurable Speed like it does for abilities/resistances, but it does accept that a immeasurable character can be faster than other Immeasurable characters.

Except that's not what I said, there's a difference between being faster than and literally statuing someone in the same tier as you. Immeasurable Speed is not the same as MFTL+

 

[FroYoSans]

Superman being Immeasurable wouldn't prevent any other character like Wally to be faster than he is

Once again not what I said, I said he shouldn't be getting literally Statued by another Immeasurable Speed characters if he is Immeasurable Speed, the tier isn't something like MFTL+

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Once again not what I said, I said he shouldn't be getting literally Statued by another Immeasurable Speed characters if he is Immeasurable Speed, the tier isn't something like MFTL+

When was that established?

 

[FroYoSans]

Technically, characters can have scaling chains where gap two or more Immeasurable speed characters is bigger than the gap between another Immeasurable speed character and a finite speed character. Or where they can travel between more than one temporal dimension as if it were a spatial dimension. But they often require substantial evidence.

That Is once again going into the idea of layers of Immeasurable Speed which this wiki doesn't utilize

But as many others said, there are plenty of cases where Speedsters needed to be drastically amped more than usual just to perform Infinite speed feats. And even without amps on those levels, Flash has still consistently been portrayed as astronomically faster than the rest of the JLA. Now when he doesn't move, his lifting strength isn't any better than someone like Batman's. And that's the reason he needs to move so much faster in order to generate KE punches on the level of Superman or Wonder Woman; though even in more extreme cases he outright surpasses them when he goes all out in speed

I don't see why you posted this, it doesn't seem relevant, I mean yeah writing is inconsistent for the Flash family, that doesn't change that current narrative doesn't support Immeasurable Speed Superman

 

[FroYoSans]

When was that established?

Elaborate? Superman getting statued or Immeasurable Speed not working like MFTL+?

 

[Ozcantabak]

Except that's not what I said, there's a difference between being faster than and literally statuing someone in the same tier as you. Immeasurable Speed is not the same as MFTL+

They both mean you are just faster than ur opponent, the only difference is that ur fast way faster if ur statuing someone, but that does not make you Immeasurable+.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Elaborate? Superman getting statued or Immeasurable Speed not working like MFTL+?

Why can't two characters have immeasurable speed and one still be faster than another?

 

[Ozcantabak]

Technically, characters can have scaling chains where gap two or more Immeasurable speed characters is bigger than the gap between another Immeasurable speed character and a finite speed character. Or where they can travel between more than one temporal dimension as if it were a spatial dimension. But they often require substantial evidence.

By the way, i'm pretty sure the wiki accepts flash faimily becomes way faster than other immeasurable when they absorb the speed-force.
From wally's Post-Crisis profile :
"Immeasurable via running through time, the Speed Force, using the Fourth Dimension and at his peak, higher with the Entire Speed Force (Should be comparable to Bart Allen who volunteered to absorb the entire Speed Force so that he would be fast enough to stop Superboy-Prime." Superboy-prime being another character accepted to have immeasurable speed on his profile.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

That Is once again going into the idea of layers of Immeasurable Speed which this wiki doesn't utilize

No, you don't get "layers" even with MFTL+, you get simple chainscaling with Immeasurable Speed like with every other tiers below

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

By the way, i'm pretty sure the wiki accepts flash faimily becomes way faster than other immeasurable when they absorb the speed-force.
From wally's Post-Crisis profile :
"Immeasurable via running through time, the Speed Force, using the Fourth Dimension and at his peak, higher with the Entire Speed Force (Should be comparable to Bart Allen who volunteered to absorb the entire Speed Force so that he would be fast enough to stop Superboy-Prime." Superboy-prime being another character accepted to have immeasurable speed on his profile.

We also currently only accept that for travel speed; not combat/reaction speed.

 

[Ozcantabak]

We also currently only accept that for travel speed; not combat/reaction speed.

How so ? It does not just say he is "Immeasurable via time travel" it also says he is "Immeasurable at his peak" and he goes even faster than that with absorbing the enitre Speed-force.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

How so ? It does not just say he is "Immeasurable via time travel" it also says he is "Immeasurable at his peak" and he goes even faster than that with absorbing the enitre Speed-force.

Im pretty sure it should apply to his reactions too because he isn't blitzing himself and he also reacts to other immeasurable speed people

 

[Ozcantabak]

Im pretty sure it should apply to his reactions too because he isn't blitzing himself and he also reacts to other immeasurable speed people

Yeah, if his immeasurable speed was only when he was "running through time" it would only scale to his travel, but he is also immeasurable "at his peak" which means his c/r also scales.

 

[FroYoSans]

They both mean you are just faster than ur opponent, the only difference is that ur fast way faster if ur statuing someone, but that does not make you Immeasurable+.

No no there's a clear difference, because true statuing happens with Tier differences, they see them as truly frozen or statued. That gap cannot exist without layers of Immeasurable Speed which this site doesn't use, it's not the same

 

[FroYoSans]

Why can't two characters have immeasurable speed and one still be faster than another?

Youre not understanding what I'm saying if that's the question you're asking. There is a difference between literally seeing a character as completely frozen, something that only comes from a tier difference and simply seeing someone in an incredibly slow perception

 

[Rex_Eckles]

No no there's a clear difference, because true statuing happens with Tier differences, they see them as truly frozen or statued. That gap cannot exist without layers of Immeasurable Speed which this site doesn't use, it's not the same

No? When was that established? That doesn't even make sense.

 

[FroYoSans]

By the way, i'm pretty sure the wiki accepts flash faimily becomes way faster than other immeasurable when they absorb the speed-force.
From wally's Post-Crisis profile :
"Immeasurable via running through time, the Speed Force, using the Fourth Dimension and at his peak, higher with the Entire Speed Force (Should be comparable to Bart Allen who volunteered to absorb the entire Speed Force so that he would be fast enough to stop Superboy-Prime." Superboy-prime being another character accepted to have immeasurable speed on his profile.

Yeah except that's with the whole speed force (which none of my examples show), which is effectively the birthplace of motion and time

 

[FroYoSans]

We also currently only accept that for travel speed; not combat/reaction speed.

For Superboy Prime or the Flashes?

 

[FroYoSans]

No? When was that established? That doesn't even make sense.

Yes it does its the literal tiering system if speed, tier differences involve being able to effectively freeze characters separated by those tiers. Infinite Speed characters see Finite speed characters as Frozen, Immeasurable sees Infinite As Frozen. The Flash straight up emulated that same effect, against the entire League. Not ppss9ble without layers

 

[FroYoSans]

No, you don't get "layers" even with MFTL+, you get simple chainscaling with Immeasurable Speed like with every other tiers below

Yeah its not that simple with Immeasurable Speed, Superman hasn't showcased true Immeasurable Speed, therefore one cannot say he has Immeasurable Speed anything

 

[Ozcantabak]

No no there's a clear difference, because true statuing happens with Tier differences, they see them as truly frozen or statued. That gap cannot exist without layers of Immeasurable Speed which this site doesn't use, it's not the same

The site just assumes the other character is just waay faster, it does not assume the character getting statued isn't immeasurable.

Yeah except that's with the whole speed force (which none of my examples show), which is effectively the birthplace of motion and time

Was just giving an example that we already do accept similar things (flash, a immeasurable character being way faster than another imme character).

For Superboy Prime or the Flashes?

I should note, both Prime's and Flashes imme speed sacles to their c/r according to their profiles.