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Ben 10 General Discussion Thread

Apollonir.Scale said:
I know this film is non-canon. There was a writer's statement saying Alien Swarm is non-canon, but if we accept AS as non-canon, we need to consider at least three episodes of Ultimate Alien plus the Ultimate Swampfire vs. Red scene as non-canon. Since the author's statement contradicts the episodes, I believe AS is canon, but there doesn't seem to be a contradiction for DAA. If so, please let me know.
Click to expand...
All movies, except for Race Against Time, are canon.
 
Apollonir.Scale said:
I know this film is non-canon. There was a writer's statement saying Alien Swarm is non-canon, but if we accept AS as non-canon, we need to consider at least three episodes of Ultimate Alien plus the Ultimate Swampfire vs. Red scene as non-canon. Since the author's statement contradicts the episodes, I believe AS is canon, but there doesn't seem to be a contradiction for DAA. If so, please let me know.
Click to expand...
Bruh how is Alien swarm non canon there is heavily implication that those events happend in the show in ultimate Alien Ben 10 writers are really inconsistent sometimes that they even forget Character's name that from the show that they have created, they forgot Charmcaster as a character in a statement 💀
 
Lort15 said:
Bruh how is Alien swarm non canon there is heavily implication that those events happend in the show in ultimate Alien Ben 10 writers are really inconsistent sometimes that they even forget Character's name that from the show that they have created, they forgot Charmcaster as a character in a statement 💀
Click to expand...
Yes, if AS is not canon, the 2 episodes with Elena in UA and Ben turning into a Nanomech to defeat Will Harangue (A complete O.E) in season 1 episode 4 would also be non canon.
 
I have a question about Galapagos's Mana resistance. Gwen couldn't harm Aggregor, and it's been stated that Galapagos's species is the reason for this. That's why Teraspin is resistant to Mana. But Ultimate Kevin, who has absorbed Aggregor's powers, is affected by Gwen's Mana. Is this because Gwen's Mana has become stronger? It's obvious that Gwen has become stronger, but should she have 1-layer Mana because her Mana is affecting someone who shouldn't be affected by it?
 
Apollonir.Scale said:
I have a question about Galapagos's Mana resistance. Gwen couldn't harm Aggregor, and it's been stated that Galapagos's species is the reason for this. That's why Teraspin is resistant to Mana. But Ultimate Kevin, who has absorbed Aggregor's powers, is affected by Gwen's Mana. Is this because Gwen's Mana has become stronger? It's obvious that Gwen has become stronger, but should she have 1-layer Mana because her Mana is affecting someone who shouldn't be affected by it?
Click to expand...
Kevin didn't absorb Aggregor's power at full capacity that or ı've seen a statement that Teraspins mana resistance needs to be activated might be that's why
 
Lort15 said:
Kevin didn't absorb Aggregor's power at full capacity that or ı've seen a statement that Teraspins mana resistance needs to be activated might be that's why
Click to expand...
I know this isn’t what is accepted right now but Kevin did absorb Aggregor’s full power. It was stated by Dwayne McDuffie that he did as he absorbed them in the form of energy, the same way Aggregor did.
 
Btw in that same link he said that Kevin with kid Ben’s Omnitrix absorbed could “probably” defeat Ultimate Aggregor although it would be more difficult. Sadly I think the wiki has rules against using statements with words like “probably” in it, but if it was useable it would be neat for at least OS Way Big scaling.
 
Last edited:
Ghengiroo115 said:
I know this isn’t what is accepted right now but Kevin did absorb Aggregor’s full power. It was stated by Dwayne McDuffie that he did as he absorbed them in the form of energy, the same way Aggregor did.
Click to expand...
oh alr then Kevin might not activate the resistance cuz he is bad at using his powers as he wasn't thinking to use Bigchill's intangibility in some eps
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Btw in that same link he said that Kevin with kid Ben’s Omnitrix absorbed could “probably” defeat Ultimate Aggregor although it would be more difficult. Sadly I think the wiki has rules against using statements with words like “probably” in it, but if it was useable it would be neat for at least OS Way Big scaling.
Click to expand...
There's no confirmation this is Post-OS Ben, AFAIK it's at least Post-Season 2 of OS since he as Wildvine.
 
BlastX said:
There's no confirmation this is Post-OS Ben, AFAIK it's at least Post-Season 2 of OS since he as Wildvine.
Click to expand...
Presumably it would be at least Season 4 Ben if we take that statement in mind, as Kevin would be way weaker than Aggregor without Way Big.
 
Still bothers me that Ascalon isn’t accepted to vary depending on worthiness on the wiki. Like:
  • Creator of the weapon straight up says that a worthy user would be “unstoppable”.
  • Character who literally spearheaded an alien purge wields the weapon and is Ultimate Humungousaur tier, can hardly do anything to Dagon and gets killed once Dagon takes things more seriously.
  • Same character hundreds of years ago when he was considered more noble stalemates against Dagon and has to seal him away to win, but was considered an equal.
  • Character considered by Azmuth to be worthy of his magnum opus wields the weapon, is able to no-diff someone wielding Dagon’s power in less than a minute.
Either the stats vary depending on worthiness, or it’s like Azmuth says and only someone “truly worthy” gets the big boost (meaning Dagon’s dragon form is weaker or something). Either way Ascalon should have 4-B and 4-A ends.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Still bothers me that Ascalon isn’t accepted to vary depending on worthiness on the wiki. Like:
  • Creator of the weapon straight up says that a worthy user would be “unstoppable”.
  • Character who literally spearheaded an alien purge wields the weapon and is Ultimate Humungousaur tier, can hardly do anything to Dagon and gets killed once Dagon takes things more seriously.
  • Same character hundreds of years ago when he was considered more noble stalemates against Dagon and has to seal him away to win, but was considered an equal.
  • Character considered by Azmuth to be worthy of his magnum opus wields the weapon, is able to no-diff someone wielding Dagon’s power in less than a minute.
Either the stats vary depending on worthiness, or it’s like Azmuth says and only someone “truly worthy” gets the big boost (meaning Dagon’s dragon form is weaker or something). Either way Ascalon should have 4-B and 4-A ends.
Click to expand...
It was tried earlier but firestorm and reiner didn't find it convincing despite the evidence being crystal clear.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
When was it last tried? I might try it again myself if it’s been long enough or i can find other arguments.
Click to expand...
vsbattles.com

Ben 10: Ascalon Tier Revision

"Yes. And I looked to the heavens, gazing at those glowing planets shimmering in a straight line, and all I could see was... A sword?" Ascalon's tier should be revised to; Varies, atleast High 5-A upto 4A, higher with Absorption Simply put that Ascalon's power is entirely based upon the one who...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Hellformer said:
vsbattles.com

Ben 10: Ascalon Tier Revision

"Yes. And I looked to the heavens, gazing at those glowing planets shimmering in a straight line, and all I could see was... A sword?" Ascalon's tier should be revised to; Varies, atleast High 5-A upto 4A, higher with Absorption Simply put that Ascalon's power is entirely based upon the one who...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Click to expand...
Oh, 7-8 months ago? I can work with that.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Character considered by Azmuth to be worthy of his magnum opus wields the weapon, is able to no-diff someone wielding Dagon’s power in less than a minute.
Click to expand...
And that said character is considered to be one of the most kindhearted guys in the Universe and recognized as the Omniverse:s greatest protector and symbol of peace. And the other commanded a genocide against innocent beings.

Yeah, it makes sense.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Oh, 7-8 months ago? I can work with that
Click to expand...
Something like this ignore the High 3-A stuff
character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com

Ascalon (Canon)/Hellformer

Yes. And I looked to the heavens, gazing at those glowing planets shimmering in a straight line, and all I could see was...A sword?Ascalon's Origins The Ascalon is a weapon created by Azmuth centuries ago, before the creation of the Omnitrix. Tier: At least 4-B, Varies, up to atleast 4-A...
character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com
 
  1. George was unable to kill Dagon in the past, only incapacitating him after a lengthy battle and sealing him away. This is likely a weaker, more physical form of Dagon, as it had a physical heart and Azmuth claimed Dagon underestimated George the first time.
  2. George in the present was vastly inferior to true form Dagon and was killed by him. George also went toe-to-toe with Lucubra Vilgax who draws power from Dagon, and Ultimate Humungousaur who is vastly inferior to Dagon-level characters like Ultimate Way Big.
  3. Vilgax with Ascalon was implied to be weaker than Dagon.
  4. Ben with Ascalon casually deflects Dagon Vilgax’s energy blasts and easily stabs him.
Here’s a few showings of Ascalon’s varying strength just based on memory (no scans because I'm lazy). I’m gonna rewatch the relevant episodes at some point to see if there’s anything else I can use.
 
I’m gonna attempt to make the High 6-A characters 5-C. Does this look good or nah?

In the Ben 10 Omniverse episode “Trouble Helix”, we see Malware absorb the energy of the secondary Helix to fix his incomplete form. Albedo, who Malware forced to complete the device, attempted to sabotage this process by linking the secondary and primary Helixes together to cause an overload, which would’ve hopefully destroyed him. This however backfires and instead makes Malware even stronger.

Now the interesting part to me is this statement by Albedo before he finishing linking the two Helixes, where he says that to leave it unfinished would cause the secondary Helix to spiral out of control and destroy the entire moon (1:26). This shows that the secondary Helix has moon-busting levels of energy, as it’s specifically the secondary Helix that would spiral out of control and it wasn’t properly connected to the primary one yet. Since Albedo specifically causes an overload to destroy Malware, this suggests that Malware would be capable of absorbing the secondary Helix’s energy with no problems had it not been supercharged with that of the primary one’s. This in turn would mean the overload Albedo caused had moon-busting levels of energy.

I’m showing it off in this thread first to see if there’s something I’ve forgotten, either for or against my proposal. I’ve noticed I usually don’t notice stuff that can support my argument until after I’ve already posted something, so this’ll potentially streamline that process a bit.

Edit:
Heatblast = Multi-Continent level+ (Under 29.6 Exatons; weaker than Malware 1)

Malware 1 = Moon level (29.6 Exatons; Malware barely survived absorbing Moon-busting energy)
  • Feedback (Fought on par with Malware 1)
Malware 2 = Moon level (59.2 Exatons; Combined his own power with the power he absorbed. Stated to have “power building inside [him]” implying a somewhat significant increase)
  • Diamondhead (Physically matched him)
  • Four Arms (physically overwhelmed him when not tired unlike his fight with Malware 1)
  • Feedback’s absorption (Absorbed Malware 3’s Tachyon Cannon blast, making his peak absorption far superior to Malware 2)
 
Last edited:
Ghengiroo115 said:
I’m gonna attempt to make the High 6-A characters 5-C. Does this look good or nah?

In the Ben 10 Omniverse episode “Trouble Helix”, we see Malware absorb the energy of the secondary Helix to fix his incomplete form. Albedo, who Malware forced to complete the device, attempted to sabotage this process by linking the secondary and primary Helixes together to cause an overload, which would’ve hopefully destroyed him. This however backfires and instead makes Malware even stronger.

Now the interesting part to me is this statement by Albedo before he finishing linking the two Helixes, where he says that to leave it unfinished would cause the secondary Helix to spiral out of control and destroy the entire moon (1:26). This shows that the secondary Helix has moon-busting levels of energy, as it’s specifically the secondary Helix that would spiral out of control and it wasn’t properly connected to the primary one yet. Since Albedo specifically causes an overload to destroy Malware, this suggests that Malware would be capable of absorbing the secondary Helix’s energy with no problems had it not been supercharged with that of the primary one’s. This in turn would mean the overload Albedo caused had moon-busting levels of energy.

I’m showing it off in this thread first to see if there’s something I’ve forgotten, either for or against my proposal. I’ve noticed I usually don’t notice stuff that can support my argument until after I’ve already posted something, so this’ll potentially streamline that process a bit.

Edit:
Heatblast = Multi-Continent level+ (Under 29.6 Exatons; weaker than Malware 1)

Malware 1 = Moon level (29.6 Exatons; Malware barely survived absorbing Moon-busting energy)
  • Feedback (Fought on par with Malware 1)
Malware 2 = Moon level (59.2 Exatons; Combined his own power with the power he absorbed. Stated to have “power building inside [him]” implying a somewhat significant increase)
  • Diamondhead (Physically matched him)
  • Four Arms (physically overwhelmed him when not tired unlike his fight with Malware 1)
  • Feedback’s absorption (Absorbed Malware 3’s Tachyon Cannon blast, making his peak absorption far superior to Malware 2)
Click to expand...
Didn't they say that they'll get blown up with the moon? Seems a little contradictory.
Maybe we sure better scale then from the Great One Tier 5 dura, and find a better way to scale the Sub-Energy.
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Didn't they say that they'll get blown up with the moon? Seems a little contradictory.
Maybe we sure better scale then from the Great One Tier 5 dura, and find a better way to scale the Sub-Energy.
Click to expand...
Tbf the characters there at the time were all less durable than Malware, and since Albedo only says it to Max you can technically say that the statement only caps those two (they would be at the centre of the explosion so they’d also get hit harder by it).

Although if Albedo saying that can invalidate Malware scaling then idk if we should still allow them to be 4-B, or any other tier above 5-C. This isn’t some goofy street level anti-feat, this is a character blatantly saying that a supposedly 4-B character can’t survive a moon busting explosion.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Tbf the characters there at the time were all less durable than Malware, and since Albedo only says it to Max you can technically say that the statement only caps those two (they would be at the centre of the explosion so they’d also get hit harder by it).
Click to expand...
Aight, makes sense.
Although the Moon exolosjon shouldn't just be Tier 5C by how it less portrayed in the future
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Aight, makes sense.
Although the Moon exolosjon shouldn't just be Tier 5C by how it less portrayed in the future
Click to expand...
I think site standards say to usually just use the baseline if there isn’t an exact showing of it, even if there’s a similar feat at a different point. The primary Helix is not only much stronger than the secondary Helix but Malware’s own power was also added on top of that, so it’s unknown how the secondary’s version would compare to the primary’s.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
I think site standards say to usually just use the baseline if there isn’t an exact showing of it, even if there’s a similar feat at a different point. The primary Helix is not only much stronger than the secondary Helix but Malware’s own power was also added on top of that, so it’s unknown how the secondary’s version would compare to the primary’s.
Click to expand...
Sure ig.

Snyways, how can we handle the Sub-Energy to fit better with higher standards?
 
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