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Mori Dan upgrade - I don't know what I'm doing edition

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I thought a few years ago that this was only Low 1-C (5D), but I'm leaning towards 1-A. I agree that this is 1-A, for what it's worth.
 
ShroobWasTaken said:
FR @DavidTPPM QUIT BEING STUBBORN AND TAG EM
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Me manifesting moderator rights so I can tag staff members:
59fe210ab695a89b3915f5733c004650.gif
 
To me it seems like Paradise is at least 5D by description, though the Buddhas are definitely Tier 1.

Given that the Buddhas are said to reside in Paradise, I would be fine giving it 1-A as well.
 
FinePoint said:
To me it seems like Paradise is at least 5D by description, though the Buddhas are definitely Tier 1.

Given that the Buddhas are said to reside in Paradise, I would be fine giving it 1-A as well.
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I don’t understand if you’re okay with the Low 1-C or the 1-A.

The debate here is about whether there’s enough evidence to say that it’s Heaven that allows the Buddha to reach that existential level, since otherwise one of the rules of tier 1-A would be broken.

If this goes through, then I don’t see why we couldn’t use the same logic in literally any 1-A verse as a baseline, even if the work itself doesn’t establish it.

Anyway, it’d be nice if you could ping some admin knowledgeable on the matter.
 
ExcelsisBerny said:
Are those two administrators knowledgeable regarding how the tier 1 works? Because we are having a problem of semantics regarding how an aspect of the TS works.
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They're on the list of knowledgeable members for Tier 1.
 
ExcelsisBerny said:
The fact that you’re asking me to “elaborate” on my position makes me wonder if you actually read the thread beyond the OP.
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I skimmed the replies, but I have a lot of threads to get through so I didn't read them super thoroughly.

If you've already posted your reasons you can simply link to them.
 
FinePoint said:
I skimmed the replies, but I have a lot of threads to get through so I didn't read them super thoroughly.
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I can understand that you have “a lot of threads,” but if you’re going to do an incomplete job analyzing the arguments, then you’d better take more time, because otherwise you miss a big part of the thread, and the overall context is really important to give a verdict.

You haven’t even skimmed them, because you didn’t even know I was arguing against the thread at all. It’s kinda frustrating, because you’re basically making me feel like I wasted my time replying to the arguments of the thread, since you’re not going to read anyway. That’s not how things should be done, and I have every right to complain.

FinePoint said:
If you've already posted your reasons you can simply link to them.
Click to expand...

It starts here:

Post in thread 'Mori Dan upgrade - I don't know what I'm doing edition' https://vsbattles.com/threads/mori-dan-upgrade-i-dont-know-what-im-doing-edition.183300/post-7276218

I'm not the only user who replied to the thread. Someone else before me did it too, so you should read those messages.
 
ExcelsisBerny said:
I can understand that you have “a lot of threads,” but if you’re going to do an incomplete job analyzing the arguments, then you’d better take more time, because otherwise you miss a big part of the thread, and the overall context is really important to give a verdict.

You haven’t even skimmed them, because you didn’t even know I was arguing against the thread at all. It’s kinda frustrating, because you’re basically making me feel like I wasted my time replying to the arguments of the thread, since you’re not going to read anyway. That’s not how things should be done, and I have every right to complain.
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Well my hope is that people like you will argue with me after I evaluate the OP if you think I got it wrong, rather than having to read all five pages of the hundreds of threads I have on my wall right now.

When I was skimming I saw some people saying they thought the evidence wasn't sufficient, and some supporters arguing back. I didn't internalize who was saying what at the time.

I didn't see anything fundamentally new that would dissuade me from using the OP, so I used the OP for my evaluation.
ExcelsisBerny said:
It starts here:

Post in thread 'Mori Dan upgrade - I don't know what I'm doing edition' https://vsbattles.com/threads/mori-dan-upgrade-i-dont-know-what-im-doing-edition.183300/post-7276218

I'm not the only user who replied to the thread. Someone else before me did it too, so you should read those messages.
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Okay. I've read your replies, and I'm still fine with 1-A.

Fiction rarely spells out to us in plain terms the mechanisms behind things like this. That it's described in a way that seems 1-A is sufficient to me. We don't need to ignore that just because the how isn't fully explained.

And while there aren't direct statements of it being paradoxically larger than the normal universe despite being non-physical verbatim to our literal written definition, I felt like it was implied heavily enough by other descriptors such as it being a place you ascend to, spacetime being mere tablets, etc.

As for the statement of it being a higher dimension, I believe the character who says that literally includes a 'it's like' as if trying to simplify it for their own understanding, it doesn't seem an authoritative description.
 
FinePoint said:
Well my hope is that people like you will argue with me after I evaluate the OP if you think I got it wrong, rather than having to read all five pages of the hundreds of threads I have on my wall right now.
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Yeah, but this isn’t 5 pages, it’s 1 and a couple of posts on the other one. I’d get it if we were talking about 5, 6 or more pages for real, but that’s not the case here. I think you could easily read them in 5 minutes, it’s not exactly a monumental task, but anyway.

FinePoint said:
And while there aren't direct statements of it being paradoxically larger than the normal universe despite being non-physical verbatim to our literal written definition, I felt like it was implied heavily enough by other descriptors such as it being a place you ascend to, spacetime being mere tablets, etc.
Click to expand...

??????

The lack of statements comes from the fact that there are no direct statements or empirical evidence that Heaven is what allows the Buddhas to reach 1-A, because the way they do it is through karma, which is NOT 1-A and is just a quantitative increase of it. That’s basically the same reason why characters like Madoka aren’t accepted as 1-A, since a non–1-A being can’t become 1-A without something (a source or character) that is 1-A enabling the ascension with its abilities, because we’re talking about two levels with a different ontological genus.

The people who support the thread are arguing that this doesn’t matter because Heaven allows/forces the ascension. I’m questioning whether that’s true because there’s nothing that establishes it, and if we’re too permissive with one rule, then any character can automatically be 1-A just by being ontologically disconnected from space-time.

I don’t understand what you’re talking about. I haven’t questioned at any point whether Heaven is bigger or not.

FinePoint said:
As for the statement of it being a higher dimension, I believe the character who says that literally includes a 'it's like' as if trying to simplify it for their own understanding, it doesn't seem an authoritative description.
Click to expand...

Ditto.
 
ExcelsisBerny said:
the way they do it is through karma, which is NOT 1-A and is just a quantitative increase of it.
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That's not true. They do it through NIRVANA which is a state that allows them to ascend into a Buddha and transcend karma which governs all of existence.

It is said that anyone can achieve Nirvana and become a Buddha which directly fulfills the idea that it's some innate potential that everyone has and Buddhas simply realize. So they're not becoming Buddhas through a quantitative addition but by realizing some innate potential everyone in the verse has
 
DavidTPPM said:
They do it through NIRVANA which is a state that allows them to ascend into a Buddha and transcend karma which governs all of existence.
Click to expand...

"Nirvana” (even in real-life Buddhism) is the state the Buddha attains by being outside the cycle of suffering. It’s not a “method” by which the Buddha ascends; the way the Buddha ascends is through liberation from the cycle of Samsara.

DavidTPPM said:
It is said that anyone can achieve Nirvana and become a Buddha which directly fulfills the idea that it's some innate potential that everyone has and Buddhas simply realize.
Click to expand...

This is irrelevant to the conversation but alright.
 
1-A God of Highschool before 1-A Sun Wukong is fuсking diabolical. It really shows how much of a circus the site is becoming day after day.
 
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