Saw vs Saw: No One Saw It Coming (3-2-3)

[GunshyFever]

Solitary Warrior from Hell vs High School Educated Genius

Pochita (Chainsaw Devil) VS Denji (Devil-Human Hybrid)​

You are the chainsaw:​

To my man:​

---

Stats
Pochita (Weakened)
Attack Potency: Varies; At least 443.66 Tons of TNT, 550 Tons of TNT with chainsaws
Durability: Varies; At least 443.66 Tons of TNT
Lifting Strength: Varies; At least 2,549.92 Metric Tons

Denji (Post-Fear Boost)
Attack Potency: Varies; At least 443.66 Tons of TNT when transformed, higher with chainsaws
Durability: Varies; At least 443.66 Tons of TNT
Lifting Strength: Varies; At least 2,549.92 Metric Tons​

---

Rules

• Post-Fear Boost Denji is used
• Weakened Pochita is used
• Both fighters are in character.
• Standard Battle Assumptions apply.
• Starting distance: 25 m.
• Speed is equalized
• Battlefield: Wherever Fake Chainsaw Man and Denji fought here.

Win by
Death, incapacitation or BFR.

---

Voting Tally
Code:

Chainsaw: (3) @Anonymous_Learner, @CowHeadGod, @Breadbear83

Man: (2) @Saqphire, @NikHelton

Denji-Man: (3) @Catbowtie, @Acertainbcplayer, @Kachon123

 

[Catbowtie]

Voting Incon

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Pochita is currently 0-4 on his own verse meanwhile Denji never lost since Kishibe training

 

[GunshyFever]

Pochita is currently 0-4 on his own verse meanwhile Denji never lost since Kishibe training

This is because Pochita is missing the man, to his chainsaw

 

[MusicRelaxing]

absolute madman

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

this is peak.
Pochita should have the skill advantage and has ap advantage with chainsaws so he'll block denji's attacks easy.
Pochita the goat should take this
Denji goated tho

 

[Mommyleona]

bruh
I feel like Denji may be more creative which might give him the edge? idk following

 

[GunshyFever]

Will think of something and chip in against the winning side, when the time comes.

 

[Acertainbcplayer]

Why is Denji man fighting Man is he stupid?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

bruh
I feel like Denji may be more creative which might give him the edge? idk following

Pochita is much smarter than people give him credit for

 

[CowHeadGod]

Pochita is unironically better at being Chainsaw Man than Chainsaw Man. Like the times we actually see him fight without instantly speed-blitzing his opponents, he's really using their powerset to their max potential (ignoring the current arc :/) e.g. with things like his heart-toss and actually bothering to use his chains.

We see Denji use chains (very seldomly) ofc but really in a kind self-sacrificial way with wrapping opponents in them and pulling them towards him. Meanwhile, Pochita has shown all that + using them for mobility, burrowing them underground for sneak-attacks, and using them to launch projectiles.

Pochita also has wayyyy more experience and should know everything that Denji learnt from living inside him as well.

Denji definitely is creative in finding unorthodox ways to defeating opponents as a fight goes on but ngl there really isn't anything that he can exploit here that I don't see Pochita also being able to do.

 

[Epiccheev]

Pochita and Denji 02 minutes after fighting

 

[Acertainbcplayer]

I vote for they will become friend

 

[Saqphire]

They wouldn't fight, but I would pick Denji simply cause he scales to (even above) Fakesaw Man who can intercept an amped Yoru's Bang which made Black Chainsaw Man fly back into a building. Black CSM > Weakened CSM

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

They wouldn't fight, but I would pick Denji simply cause he scales to (even above) Fakesaw Man who can intercept an amped Yoru's Bang which made Black Chainsaw Man fly back into a building. Black CSM > Weakened CSM

Fakesaw only scales to bang with his chainsaws in ap and Denji never damaged those saws.
As for speed, though it hasn't been implimented, Weakened CSM>=Transformed Quanxi>Base Quanxi>PFB Denji CSM

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

bump

 

[Saqphire]

Fakesaw only scales to bang with his chainsaws in ap and Denji never damaged those saws.
As for speed, though it hasn't been implimented, Weakened CSM>=Transformed Quanxi>Base Quanxi>PFB Denji CSM

Wouldn't his chainsaws be intrinsic to his normal durability? Regardless Fakesaw Man grows beefier to the point that his punches and Bang are relative in DC and he literally punches Denji into a skyscraper with Denji taking zero damage.

Also if that speed chain implies that Part 1 Hybrid Quanxi is above Part 2 Quanxi, then it is faulty because current Quanxi is a blitz tier above her transformed peers when she wasn't in the graveyeard fight + she has feats on Yoru

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Wouldn't his chainsaws be intrinsic to his normal durability?

The chainsaws literally pierce through his body, like all chainsaw folk. They don't scale to dura

Regardless Fakesaw Man grows beefier to the point that his punches and Bang are relative in DC and he literally punches Denji into a skyscraper with Denji taking zero damage.

Mate, if you look at the scaling for Fakesaw, you'd know, even after getting beefier after absorbing so many, he just scales to Post fear boost Denji, who's MCB

Also if that speed chain implies that Part 1 Hybrid Quanxi is above Part 2 Quanxi, then it is faulty because current Quanxi is a blitz tier above her transformed peers when she wasn't in the graveyeard fight + she has feats on Yoru

It isn't faulty as there's legit nothing that implies she got stronger over the parts.
Base quanxi was always fast as hell and we even use her blitzing the transformed hybrids and her being for her base scaling with her hybrid for still being faster than her base with Weakened Pochita scaling to her transformed state.

 

[Kachon123]

friendship FRA

 

[Breadbear83]

I vote for pochita winning

Pochita seems far stronger with his fight in the graveyard against the hybrids than post fear boost Denji against 3 hybrids

Pochita one shots katana man and MIRI sugo, then rezee and whip, gets stabbed by one of the spears of spear devil but quickly kills him, then when barems throw his flames at him, he gets out of there quickly (the way he wasnt in flames when getting out of there, rather than it being he "dodging the flames" is just ilogical, he was just fast) barem barely reacted to his chains, quanxi gets to land some arrows on him before getting killed alongside barem

Then pochita fights for a moment with makima in a 1v1 physically

While denji, easily kills whip, spear stab him with a spear like pochita but also kills him, and then he tries attacking Miri, where he stabs him with a Chainsaw and kills him, but then he was agonizing and couldnt properly fight or escape form the civilians after miri stabbed him with his sword

And if based on statements, even a quanxi who should be aware about Denji's fear boost with the well known chainsawman zombies around (and she listening to Barems plan of making chainsawman more feared to make him stronger) she still answered to yorus question of if she being stronger than him, she said yes, but that he is far more fearsome

I do believe post fear boost denji is beating base quanxi, and if you don't fully rely on quanxis statement about she being stronger than him, then at most he can beat transformed quanxi with difficulty

But now, denji beating all the hybrids together and killing transformed quanxi as fast as pochita did is way too much

Maybe denji got stronger in the current arc against fake chainsawman with the fake chainsawman zombies being more common after weeks of their attacks, but I don't think it was a significant boot

 

[Breadbear83]

Pochita is currently 0-4 on his own verse meanwhile Denji never lost since Kishibe training

In the first 1v1 with rezee he got burned with explosions, with only his upper body intact with rezee holding him around like a corpse until aki saved him, that's definitively losing like come on

Then you don't have any real 1v1 were denji lose like pochita has, but you do have darkness devil low diffing him, in fact denji was in the side outnumbering darkness devil

(Also how do I vote for pochita? I don't see my vote counting in the code)

 

[Saqphire]

The chainsaws literally pierce through his body, like all chainsaw folk. They don't scale to dura

The chainsaws themselves get stronger as the fear boost does, so everything about Chainsaw Man is intrinsic to Fakesaw Man

Mate, if you look at the scaling for Fakesaw, you'd know, even after getting beefier after absorbing so many, he just scales to Post fear boost Denji, who's MCB

Crossverse for an inverse topic? Especially when we said both Pochitas here scale the same?? Yeah anyways my point is that the damage from the Bang and the beefy punch were comparable in strength and Denji tanked one of them, something only Black Chainsaw Man also did

It isn't faulty as there's legit nothing that implies she got stronger over the parts.

The very fact that she can blitz her hybrids in her base now when she was being at best relative to them in part 1 heavily implies this??? Otherwise the scaling is incoherent. Also she says she is stronger than Chainsaw Man which she clearly wasn't in Part 1 so

Base quanxi was always fast as hell and we even use her blitzing the transformed hybrids and her being for her base scaling, with her hybrid for still being faster than her base with Weakened Pochita scaling to her transformed state.

Yeah, that gotta be changed lmfao this implies base Quanxi in Part 2, who was capable of overpowering an amped Yoru btw, who knocked down Black Chainsaw Man, would scale the same as her base form in Part 1, where not only has she no scaling cuz she blitzed fodders and then got one tapped by Makima, in her Hybrid form, she got blitzed by Black Chainsaw Man and stalemated against an even more weakened Pochita due to damage

 

[Breadbear83]

Thinking about why the equalization to their durability being relative to their attack potency? I see it's from snakes devil AP but the 2 who received his attacks were ghost devil and gun devil 20%, they didn't tank it at all, is it just because of snake not being mentioned to be comparable to the strongest devil's like primald, horsemen and pochita, then everyone who do have such title or relative to them can scale to the AP (and post fear boost denji not necessarily even scales to it)? Maybe it can be for AP, but in durability it doesn't, you are gonna need actual durability feats were they can chainscale to and not just equalize durability to AP, no one has tanked snakes attacks to get that as durability feat or chainscaling

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

The very fact that she can blitz her hybrids in her base now when she was being at best relative to them in part 1 heavily implies this??? Otherwise the scaling is incoherent. Also she says she is stronger than Chainsaw Man which she clearly wasn't in Part 1 so

The hybrid aren't relative to quanxi at all
You cannot use these moments to scale these characters to the same speed as a group. Not only does this cause a lot of inconsistencies, but it's also just basic physics at play here. In chapter 87, they all transform at the same time and make an airborne jump toward Pochita. Once characters are airborne, their trajectories are no longer determined by running speed, only by the initial push and gravity and a panel showing characters moving toward something at the same time does not always mean their velocities were equal. Panels visually compress time and distance for readability. This is where feats come into play so we can have a narrative understanding of where characters scale within the story. You are arguing that "All hybrids = same speed". This brings issues:

1. Base Quanxi decapitating Katana Man during his sword draw dash while fighting Nail and War simultaneously. This cannot be possible if Katana Man is just as fast as transformed Quanxi, who is faster than her base counterpart.
2. Quanxi speed blitzing Miri Sugo who is unable to even detect her because of her sheer speed. Same reasoning as with Katana Man. This should not be possible.
3. Barem being surprised by Quanxi's speed. Again, not possible if he can do the same thing once he transforms.

Even going to the second round against Pochita, Miri and Katana Man being side by side in travel and maybe combat speed because they jumped at the same velocity might be a reach, but I'll at least give them the benefit of the doubt. Katana Man is not even using his sword draw dash there, so you can't make a definite comparison between the two when his base combat speed is much slower than his full speed capabilities. The best you can get out of this is Bomb and Whip going bar for bar in travel speed when approaching Pochita. That's about as close as the similarities get, because again, there should be a distinction where Barem gets blitzed by Chainsaw Man while Quanxi can react and defend against him to some extent. From all the showings in the manga, hybrids vary completely in speed. A speed char would look like:

• Quanxi (Transformed) > Quanxi > Barem (Transformed) > Chainsaw Man > Katana Man (Sword Draw Dash) > Whip Woman ~ Bomb girl (Explosions) > Bomb girl > Sword Man ~ Katana Man > Spear

In short, they are shown to not be equal, and they clearly are not equal in power, speed, skill or anything else.

Yeah, that gotta be changed lmfao this implies base Quanxi in Part 2, who was capable of overpowering an amped Yoru btw, who knocked down Black Chainsaw Man, would scale the same as her base form in Part 1, where not only has she no scaling cuz she blitzed fodders and then got one tapped by Makima, in her Hybrid form, she got blitzed by Black Chainsaw Man and stalemated against an even more weakened Pochita due to damage

Post Fear Boost Yoru who also got speed blitzed by Csm btw, using her doesn't help your case

 

[Breadbear83]

The hybrid aren't relative to quanxi at all
You cannot use these moments to scale these characters to the same speed as a group. Not only does this cause a lot of inconsistencies, but it's also just basic physics at play here. In chapter 87, they all transform at the same time and make an airborne jump toward Pochita. Once characters are airborne, their trajectories are no longer determined by running speed, only by the initial push and gravity and a panel showing characters moving toward something at the same time does not always mean their velocities were equal. Panels visually compress time and distance for readability. This is where feats come into play so we can have a narrative understanding of where characters scale within the story. You are arguing that "All hybrids = same speed". This brings issues:

1. Base Quanxi decapitating Katana Man during his sword draw dash while fighting Nail and War simultaneously. This cannot be possible if Katana Man is just as fast as transformed Quanxi, who is faster than her base counterpart.
2. Quanxi speed blitzing Miri Sugo who is unable to even detect her because of her sheer speed. Same reasoning as with Katana Man. This should not be possible.
3. Barem being surprised by Quanxi's speed. Again, not possible if he can do the same thing once he transforms.

Even going to the second round against Pochita, Miri and Katana Man being side by side in travel and maybe combat speed because they jumped at the same velocity might be a reach, but I'll at least give them the benefit of the doubt. Katana Man is not even using his sword draw dash there, so you can't make a definite comparison between the two when his base combat speed is much slower than his full speed capabilities. The best you can get out of this is Bomb and Whip going bar for bar in travel speed when approaching Pochita. That's about as close as the similarities get, because again, there should be a distinction where Barem gets blitzed by Chainsaw Man while Quanxi can react and defend against him to some extent. From all the showings in the manga, hybrids vary completely in speed. A speed char would look like:

• Quanxi (Transformed) > Quanxi > Barem (Transformed) > Chainsaw Man > Katana Man (Sword Draw Dash) > Whip Woman ~ Bomb girl (Explosions) > Bomb girl > Sword Man ~ Katana Man > Spear

In short, they are shown to not be equal, and they clearly are not equal in power, speed, skill or anything else.

Post Fear Boost Yoru who also got speed blitzed by Csm btw, using her doesn't help your case

yoru blitzing or not pochita is just inconsistency, gets speed blitzed by base quanxi, by pochita and then, in the time pochita was about to kill her with his chainsaws she was thinking for a moment wether or not to transform gun and tank into weapons, then when she decides, she thinks about making them into weapons, they travell all the way to her hands, transform, and yoru still have enough time to point at him and shoot at him

maybe the later feat is just an outlier, but its still inconsistent, i can only see this working if without the manga mentioning it, yoru and pochita get stronger across chapters besides their initials fear boost, yoru got stronger inmediately against her fight with yoshida but could have gotten stronger and faster some time before the nuke fear boost, same with pochita initially fighting well again an even stronger yoru in the latest chapters, until he ate lil´d and he seemingly being stronger started making more sense

i also notice you took the first argument for hybrids speed from gunshyfever in the discussion thread, about it, its originally was intended to decide if hybrids normally would scale to katana man sword slash at mach 81 (which also, this versus doesnt have speed specified so speed is equalized)

and everyone can agree than quanxi is just stronger and faster than the rest of the hybrids, was shown better than the rest of them in their fights again pochita, and even fear boost denji is implied to be weaker than quanxi by her own words

what stat would matter here is how they chainscale from snake devil, where they MAY scale to because of being high tier devils, but at different degrees

its another subject about the speed tiering they may have and the one gunshyfever gave them, personally i dont think barem and whip scale that high (really whip has no feats other than landing a hit on a pochita who was distracted by barems flamethrowers) and spear could scale higher because he always landed his spears on his opponents, and with close range against pochita second encounter and denji

part 1 katana normal speed is not that high, he was getting many hits from aki, but his sword slash is indeed very fast for an hybrid

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

and everyone can agree than quanxi is just stronger and faster than the rest of the hybrids, was shown better than the rest of them in their fights again pochita, and even fear boost denji is implied to be weaker than quanxi by her own words

The person i was relpying to was Literally saying that all the hybrids are relative

The very fact that she can blitz her hybrids in her base now when she was being at best relative to them in part 1 heavily implies this??? Otherwise the scaling is incoherent. Also she says she is stronger than Chainsaw Man which she clearly wasn't in Part 1 so

 

[Saqphire]

"Quanxi over hybrid section"

I never said they were equal, just relative. Ignoring speed arguments, as the debate is about equal speed anyway, Quanxi didn't even have a chance of landing a single blow on Black Chainsaw Man as she got KO'd instantly, so it's pretty clear we cannot use her to upscale Weakened Pochita above Current Denji. Nor can we use the other Hybrids as not only did they do no real damage with their normal physicals (whereas Spear was capable of piercing him with, well, his Spear), Quanxi being supposedly superior to the Hybrids makes this not even a good argument for Weakened Pochita anyway due to Yoru

The examples you provided all come from part 2 which can just bolster my interpretation as to why Part 2 Quanxi is not comparable to Part 1 Quanxi, especially when Yoru got low diffed by her, the same Yoru who, unlike Part 1 Quanxi, was capable of landing blows on Black Chainsaw Man. The scaling becomes circular if we extrapolate Part 2 Base Quanxi to Part 1 Base Quanxi, as it would then go:

Black CSM >>> Weakened Pochita > Hybrid Quanxi > Base Quanxi > Two-Armed Yoru ~ Black CSM.

Post Fear Boost Yoru who also got speed blitzed by Csm btw, using her doesn't help your case

Yoru heavily implies that her and Pochita get stronger via fear by each day, and Yoru sans arms isn't the same Yoru as the one who obtains her devil arms, nor is it the same Pochita as it was in Part 1. So the scaling becomes even worse if we use Quanxi to upscale Weakened Pochita.

Also, I realised that Fakesaw Man is nerfed anyway due to his condition as a Death puppet so just scratch my argument on Fakesaw Man leeching from Pochita.

 

[GunshyFever]

Ya'll are really getting defeated by these args? (no offense Saq)

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Ya'll are really getting defeated by these args? (no offense Saq)

The votes seem to be in a stalemate, no one's winning or losing rn

 

[Breadbear83]

Ya'll are really getting defeated by these args? (no offense Saq)

It's just anonymous learner and saqphire arguing, I don't see them convincing the other of their view on this match

Either new people come or the ones who voted incon come again, cuz at the moment denji is not winning with the votes, just inconclusive at best

Also whats your take on this gunshyfever? You said also that you will see if you the put a condition against the winning side, and like saqphire and I said, denji could have gotten stronger since the initial fear boost with chainsaw zombies becoming more common, but the "post fear boost denji" key doesn't specify that

With pochita is more clearer as it only refers to him in his fight in the graveyard

 

[GunshyFever]

I can't type for extended periods of time because I have a cast. Best I leave my arm to rest.

 

[Catbowtie]

Lock in.

 

[NikHelton]

Denji negs. Denji has a much higher Battle IQ, skill, and creativity. Their stats are equivalent.
Genius takes this match.
Voting for Denji

 

[Breadbear83]

I can't type for extended periods of time because I have a cast. Best I leave my arm to

Denji negs. Denji has a much higher Battle IQ, skill, and creativity. Their stats are equivalent.
Genius takes this match.
Voting for Denji

Their stats Arent equivalent, gunshyflesher already says how they are "at least" at those stats

And higher battle iq? He ended up getting badly hurt in a 1v3 match with hybrids to the point average civilians were threatening him, pochita has been shown to be a greater fighter against the hybrids in the graveyard (after taking all of them down, he fought for a moment against makima)

And how for example pochita is better at using his chains in combat, which denji has rarely used

Denji's creativity comes against enemies with weird abilities, water against rezee because she's a bomb fire against darkness devil flesh doll devil, or Yoru perception of owning thought winning

But what is he doing against pochita? He's just. A physical fighter

 

[That_moron2]

Solitary Warrior from Hell vs High School Educated Genius

Pochita (Chainsaw Devil) VS Denji (Devil-Human Hybrid)​

You are the chainsaw:​

To my man:​

---

Stats
Pochita (Weakened)
Attack Potency: Varies; At least 443.66 Tons of TNT, 550 Tons of TNT with chainsaws
Durability: Varies; At least 443.66 Tons of TNT
Lifting Strength: Varies; At least 2,549.92 Metric Tons

Denji (Post-Fear Boost)
Attack Potency: Varies; At least 443.66 Tons of TNT when transformed, higher with chainsaws
Durability: Varies; At least 443.66 Tons of TNT
Lifting Strength: Varies; At least 2,549.92 Metric Tons​

---

Rules

• Post-Fear Boost Denji is used
• Weakened Pochita is used
• Both fighters are in character.
• Standard Battle Assumptions apply.
• Starting distance: 25 m.
• Speed is equalized
• Battlefield: Wherever Fake Chainsaw Man and Denji fought here.

Win by
Death, incapacitation or BFR.

---

Voting Tally
Code:

Chainsaw: (3) @Anonymous_Learner, @CowHeadGod, @Breadbear83

Man: (1) @Saqphire

Denji-Man: (3) @Catbowtie, @Acertainbcplayer, @Kachon123

Old yeller

 

[GunshyFever]

Bump

 

[Epiccheev]

But what is he doing against pochita? He's just. A physical fighter

We should give Denji acess to his iconic Chainsaw gun

 

[GunshyFever]

bump

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

bump

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

bump