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Unpopular Opinions and (Friendly) Rant thread

I wonder what anime has the worst OST of all time. Usually you very rarely see people roasting soundtracks compared to animation and the like.
 
Epiccheev said:
I wonder what anime has the worst OST of all time. Usually you very rarely see people roasting soundtracks compared to animation and the like.
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Honestly, that's because it's much easier to get people to like music than it is to get them to like animation. People tend to pay a lot less attention to it, and not see it as a focal point. It's like how you don't OFTEN see criticism entirely based on backgrounds, usually focusing on both that and foregrounds.
 
Fr, can't think of a single anime/series that got roasted or criticized for a bad OST from the top of my head.
 
I have mostly seen the opposite, when an anime has good music people simply pray the OST, otherwise they just ignore it. The single exception I can think of, which is rather specific, is when a manga gets a new animated adaptation and people compare the old and the new anime and fans inevitable end up comparing the soundtrack among everything else.

I have seen people criticizing openings and endings though.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
LIFE_OF_KING said:
Aint no way that Cell saga is the worst
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Maybe it might be appropriate to elaborate.

The Cell arc overall is just a vapid, uninteresting, and unengaging read for me; Toriyama seems to want to floor it in terms of the manga's pacing, and that's really a major reason as to what makes reading the Cell arc so vapid. Toriyama just rushes and never takes the chance to possibly slow down and let the manga take it's time or allow the characters to just be characters. When got the average of all the time taken for me to complete each volume, I got 44 minutes and 30.59875 seconds, with my slowest time being 70 minutes and 61.23 seconds with Volume 30 (which is when everything switches gears to have Cell as the main villain) and my fastest time being 27 minutes and 49 seconds with Volume 35 (which is when Super Saiya-jin 2 Gohan fights and defeats Cell). I think one example would be how the beginning of the arc is set up, I'm not asking for half of the Cell arc to be just set up, but I just want more meat to it, and I really don't think the payoff is really any good! This is also not to mention how this isn't a moment in isolation, other moments of rushing I can think of could be how Gero was rushed to be killed off and replaced by #16, #17, and #18; how #17 and #18 were rushed to be absorbed by Cell; how Gohan was rushed to become SSJ2, etc. The rushed pace doesn't give us time to really expand on things that really matter like who Dr. Gero is, Trunks and Vegeta's relationship/conflict, who #18 and #17 are, and what Goku and Gohan were doing in the Chamber of Spirit and Time.

What also makes it vapid is really a lack of theme or focus involved for the Cell arc; in a video by Mike from LaughingStock Media tries to defend Cell as to be the Best villain in Dragon Ball ever, he made the claim that the Cell arc was thematically about overcoming time itself and how it's supposed to be the ultimate culmination of Dragon Ball's entire history up to that point, I'm sorry but upon my reading it through I just didn't see any that; all I saw the Dragon Team being reduced to nothing but a Ship of Fools who, against all reason and logic, didn't even try to prevent the threat from happening, and are turned from real characters to caricatures and cardboard cutouts of what they once were if they weren't plot devices. In my friend's experience, for some series they would "wish the characters would just shut up and put their money where their mouth is and prove their themes," that's really how I feel about in terms of its themes or lack thereof, the characters talk about time travel but it doesn't exactly play a major role thematically in the plot, it's as my friend would say about it "being very much lacking in humor and character moments" which leads it to being completely vapid. I can definitely understand the themes of the Saiyan arc, it is about weak Earthlings being thrust into a fight against foes that outclass them every way and told to win against the impossible odds, no matter the cost, and it is also about not being defined by what you were born as and being willing to stand up to those who wish to put you down; we literally see the Dragon Team doing just that and Vegeta saying that to Goku, this is why fights in the Saiyan arc have more narrative significance than fights in the Cell arc.

The Cell arc in comparison lacks any of engaging themes to really speak, and the fights might as well be pointless and mindless wastes of time. I was asked if the audience's emotional connection can carry a bad story through, well let me tell you that by the end of the Cell arc I couldn't emotionally connect to any of the characters! I didn't care about Kuririn, I didn't care about Tenshinhan, I didn't care about Gohan, I didn't care about Vegeta, I didn't care about #16 or #17 or #18, I didn't care about Chaozu, I didn't care about Goku, I didn't care about Cell, etc. Trunks' more personal goal about wishing for a father figure could have possibly given me an emotional connection, but because Toriyama didn't want to explore Trunks and Vegeta's relationship/conflict, I ended up not caring for him either, that's not to mention that even knowing about Future Gohan in the manga, I don't care about him either-all he did was throw himself to his death. You know, Dorohedoro is one of my favorite manga that I've gotten the pleasure to read, and while it too doesn't exactly have an overall theme or focus with its story (besides maybe chaos), what at least kept me engaged were the endearing characters, great art, a great mystery to unravel, great world building, engaging action, and a whole ton of gore and body horror to boot making it a very fun read. The Cell arc meanwhile has none of these qualities, and that is ultimate compounded by a lack of theme and/or focus, it just wants to overload you with useless plot mechanic information, instead of fleshing out the things that matter, and just get to the fights.

I think the worst thing I hate about the Cell arc is how many fans seem to just unanimously and continuously agree that it is the GOAT of Dragon Ball with no question, but I just can't help but question their standards of quality. I've been told that Dragon Ball supposedly has no status quo, that everything keeps changing in each arc, well by the end the Cell arc, it does feel like a status quo has been maintained; sure Goku is dead, but it doesn't feel like anything has changed, they just get a new Kami for the Dragon Balls, any damage that was done gets restored, and everyone who died just gets brought back to life anyway. I have been told that criticizing things and asking if they could be better is disrespectful, but truthfully this is all really coming from the heart of true Dragon Ball fan who wants good stories and meaningful character writing in the series. It just breaks my heart to see that this arc is what fans seem to consider to be the cream of the crop unlike the Red Ribbon Army arc, any of the Budokai arcs, or the Saiyan arc!

Dragon Ball, to me at least, is a series of whimsy that leaves some things up in the air which gives fans the opportunity to try to discuss and answer for themselves like "Why did Super Buu turn into Kid Buu instead of Skinny Buu", "How do Zenkai boosts work?", "Why Piccolo can't create Dragon Balls?", "What are Goku's morals?", etc. In the Cell arc though, for any questions it creates, the obvious answer is just "Because Toriyama said so."

Why didn't Trunks and Bulma in the future try to find New Namek instead of traveling back in time? Because Toriyama said so. Why didn't they use the Chamber of Spirit and Time in the future? Because Toriyama said so. Why didn't they use the Chamber of Spirit and Time in the Saiyan arc? Because Toriyama said so. Why is Gohan special, and not Trunks, and should get to defeat Cell? Because Toriyama said so. Why does Cell want to achieve perfection? Because Toriyama said so. Why does Cell's regeneration seem to just work even though it's nothing like Piccolo's regeneration? Because Toriyama said so. Why are we supposed to consider #17 and #18 to be so threatening? Because Toriyama said so. Why couldn't Gero have make himself stronger than #17 and #18? Because Toriyama said so. Why are #17 and #18 the ones who ravaged Trunks' future? Because Toriyama said so. Why does #16 speech to Gohan make him go SSJ2? Because Toriyama said so. Why should we care about Kuririn's crush on #18? Because Toriyama said so. Why should we care about #16, #17, and/or #18? Because Toriyama said so. Why does Vegeta not leave Earth? Because Toriyama said so. Why does everybody fall in with Vegeta with his threat? Because Toriyama said so. Why does Bulma, possibly the smartest person in the world, hook-up with a dick like Vegeta? Because Toriyama said so. Why should we care about Future Gohan's death and think it's sad? Because Toriyama said so. Why should we care about Trunks' death and think it's sad? Because Toriyama said so. Why does Vegeta suddenly care about Trunks upon seeing his death? Because Toriyama said so. Why should we care about Trunks and Vegeta's relationship? Because Toriyama said so. Why should I care about this Ship of Fools called the Dragon Team? BECAUSE...TORIYAMA...SAID...SO...

Toriyama does not take time to flesh out any of these ideas or try to answer any of these questions and more properly because of a severe lack of focus, he just wants you to trust him, dumb down your mind, and not ask questions, at least as far as the manga is concerned.

I know that many fans would probably turn to the anime to counter any of the things I've said above since that would be the version that they were exposed to, and I can at least agree that the anime only scenes that were added to the Cell arc do make great additions and expand upon things which make the arc more palatable, but this is a similar situation to Dragon Ball Z Abridged and the official dub of Dragon Ball Z; it was because the manga version of the Cell arc was bad that those scenes exist (which is a lot like how the Piccolo Daimao arc was heavily expanded upon in the anime compared to the manga) just like how Dragon Ball Z Abridged only exists because the dub was bad; also I prefer to go by the rule of thumb that an adaptation can only stand if its source material can stand on its own, which here it doesn't! Also, the anime at the end of the day is meant to advertise for the manga, there's no point in trying to make changes to the original story if all you're doing is advertising for it. And with the Cell arc it almost feels like the it's the other way around with the manga being the advertisement while the anime is the source material.

I've already wasted almost 6 hours reading through this arc, and that's enough for me, I'm not willing to waste any more time on reading or watching this arc, especially not 30 hours of my time. With the other arcs that I don't like as much, I'm able to find something I like or at least appreciate/understand/latch onto what it is attempting to do: the Piccolo Daimao arc was meant to shift the tone of Dragon Ball from a goofy adventure story to a more serious action one, the Namek arc was meant to try and expand the verse more and it continues of the themes of the Saiyan arc, and the Buu arc was meant to reintroduce some humor into the story when it was absent, Buu himself is a pretty fun and interesting villain whose regeneration is used in a more creative and fun way, and it has probably the best ending for Dragon Ball to possibly hope for (besides maybe the chapter of "The Gift of the Dragon Balls"); but for the Cell arc, there's nothing for me to latch onto, it's vapid in the beginning, vapid in the middle, and vapid in the end, so I can't accept the Cell arc as a part of Dragon Ball because there is simply no silver lining that, at least for me, can be pointed to.
 
y'all.

wesley-snipes.gif
 
Metalballrun said:
Anyways, I enjoyed the Android/Cell Saga but it does contain some of the most egregious displays of irrational character traits that plagued the discourse about said characters.
It's the story arc where Goku and Vegeta being braindead barbarian monkeymen was accentuated the most, in particular.
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Goku, I disagree with,Vegeta I wholeheartedly agree with but I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing.
 
DivineAura44 said:
Goku, I disagree with,Vegeta I wholeheartedly agree with but I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing.
Click to expand...
There is a reason why almost everyone thought Goku was being exceptionally dumb for giving Cell a Senzu Bean and sicking him onto Gohan. It was crazy and TBH doesn't really seem like something the Goku of the past sagas would do. IIRC this is when the portrayal of Goku being more of a bloodlusted fighter started.
Of course, it's not entirely unreasonable from Goku's POV because he thought Gohan had it in spades to destroy Cell, so there's that. At best we can call it a massive Saiyan gene-induced lapse of judgment.

Vegeta was basically the personification of prideful insecurity during this saga. He was prideful before but he acted closer to an actual merc, was prudent and crafty without being overly stupid. The closest he acted like Android Saga Vegeta was when he mistook his Zenkai Boost as becoming a Super Saiyan on Namek. Although I guess his "muh Saiyan Pride" is the natural progression of his experiences, so it's not necessarily a bad thing.
 
Metalballrun said:
There is a reason why almost everyone thought Goku was being exceptionally dumb for giving Cell a Senzu Bean and sicking him onto Gohan. It was crazy and TBH doesn't really seem like something the Goku of the past sagas would do. IIRC this is when the portrayal of Goku being more of a bloodlusted fighter started.
Of course, it's not entirely unreasonable from Goku's POV because he thought Gohan had it in spades to destroy Cell, so there's that. At best we can call it a massive Saiyan gene-induced lapse of judgment.

Vegeta was basically the personification of prideful insecurity during this saga. He was prideful before but he acted closer to an actual merc, was prudent and crafty without being overly stupid. The closest he acted like Android Saga Vegeta was when he mistook his Zenkai Boost as becoming a Super Saiyan on Namek. Although I guess his "muh Saiyan Pride" is the natural progression of his experiences, so it's not necessarily a bad thing.
Click to expand...
What he did here by tossing Cell the bean was the same as when he didn't kill Majin Buu, he was passing the torch, and leading the new generation to be protectors of the Earth. He needed Gohan to understand that he wasn't always gonna be there to save him. But that's ok because Gohan had the power within himself to save Earth if Goku couldn't. It wasn't just that Gohan could beat Cell, he wanted Gohan to prove to himself that he could.

Vegeta's arrogance in the Cell Saga was absolutely a result of stupid saiyan pride, there is no denial to that. But this was a stew of negative emotions left to fester unchecked.
He didn't get to kill Frieza, he died and was sidelined while Goku not only won handedly, but also unlocked Super Saiyan. The same man that looked down on him enough (or at least it looks like that from Vegeta's perspective) to spare his life, still has him beat every step in the way. Add his son to watch him, a new form that he was finally first to discover, and the fact that he's fighting a man-made creature (basically a bucket of bolts to him), he had to prove himself. And he couldn't take down his opponent before they got to their full power. After all, when Goku fought Frieza, Frieza went to his 100% and he still lost. His win has to be just as triumphant as Goku's or it means nothing. He is the Prince of All Saiyans, no one could be stron-
He gets destroyed by Cell.

This brash arrogance leads up into the perfect resolution of Vegeta's arc in the Buu Saga, "You are Number One." We aren't talking some dumb plot induced stupidity. Vegeta's idiocy in this arc was necessary to the Buu Saga and a natural build-up from the Namek Saga.
 
Metalballrun said:
There is a reason why almost everyone thought Goku was being exceptionally dumb for giving Cell a Senzu Bean and sicking him onto Gohan. It was crazy and TBH doesn't really seem like something the Goku of the past sagas would do. IIRC this is when the portrayal of Goku being more of a bloodlusted fighter started.
Of course, it's not entirely unreasonable from Goku's POV because he thought Gohan had it in spades to destroy Cell, so there's that. At best we can call it a massive Saiyan gene-induced lapse of judgment.
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I'm not critizing Goku for that, I'm criticizing him for not preventing Gero from creating the threat in the first place but because Vegeta threatened to kill everyone (even though Goku is essentially the strongest person in the room and could stop Vegeta with ease)
 
I'm honestly more surprised that Krillin and Trunks didn't bring the still growing Cell embryo to Bulma to see if she can turn it into an ally down the road. I'm sure she has more resources than Gero in a random ass cave had access to.
 
Shmooply said:
I hate that if you wanna discuss about a specific thing you like, you have to do so in a Discord server or Reddit, which both suck ginormous amount of dick. I miss forums dedicated to specific hobbies or just neat things in general like this one, death to social media.
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Idk why forums fell off in terms of popularity as they're typically better than discord and reddit. Shout out to the Wario Forums.
 
DaMonkeMan said:
Idk why forums fell off in terms of popularity as they're typically better than discord and reddit. Shout out to the Wario Forums.
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Social media accounts are far easier to make and allow you to join multiple fandoms at once instead of needing one for each interest you have in Forums.

Aka it's a matter of speed and convenience, especially when making and joining a Forum needs time.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Social media accounts are far easier to make and allow you to join multiple fandoms at once instead of needing one for each interest you have in Forums.

Aka it's a matter of speed and convenience, especially when making and joining a Forum needs time.
Click to expand...
But places like Discord and Instagram are usually far harder to maintain due to how large they are.
 
DaMonkeMan said:
Idk why forums fell off in terms of popularity as they're typically better than discord and reddit. Shout out to the Wario Forums.
Click to expand...
They tend to get a bad rep in the general zeitgeist due to places like 4chan and such, as well as being seen as geeky to high hell.

Reddit probably has a worse reputation, though, especially nowadays; only reason it’s still around is because ease of use.
 
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